Post AYGhjVk0TqylomFmPg by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #AYGhQRvqQ07mVChXlI by pixel@desu.social
2023-07-31T23:16:02Z
9 likes, 11 repeats
sad truth: as long as instances like .art keep moderating as they do ("proactively", guilt-by-association, etc.), Mastodon and the fediverse as a whole will stagnate.I get that people want to keep it "manageable", but you also want more people to adopt the concept and ideology so we are not dependent on centralized services.but new users will leave right away if they have to deal with federation issues if they can't interact with friends.
(DIR) Post #AYGhYmlmpOGtRiyJMW by pixel@desu.social
2023-07-31T23:17:31Z
4 likes, 5 repeats
and of course, I'm not defending bad instances that spew bad stuff and attack others, are badly moderated and whatnot, everyone is free to block those off if they need tobut the whole deal of "association" and crap needs to stop.
(DIR) Post #AYGhhTJkWJ6nir01zc by alinanorakari@broken.graphics
2023-07-31T23:19:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel is “stagnation” bad? would it be preferrable to get bigger numbers at the cost of keeping an organization in people's timelines that has the reputation to be transphobic / platforming bigots?
(DIR) Post #AYGhjVk0TqylomFmPg by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-31T23:19:35Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@pixel The idea that they are moderating proactively is nonsense.. They are moderating to the whims of their users, which attracts more users with whims. Its a cycle that ultimately results in servers like art, that has moderated to the point of abuse just to appease their users rather than based on anything that actually needs moderating.
(DIR) Post #AYGhnqV5EvsRMOLA00 by pixel@desu.social
2023-07-31T23:20:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@desea the software shouldn't have to teach either, because people don't want to go through a "tutorial" to use a social network
(DIR) Post #AYGi2VAynyuLZGvRMe by pixel@desu.social
2023-07-31T23:22:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alinanorakari it hasn't even gotten to that point, but if they were to bring bigoted people etc. on here then they can rightfully do that, no offense then!I assume the bigoted people want reach and whatnot and that is pretty hard to get on fedi anyway so I assume they wouldn't stick here for long anyway if so.
(DIR) Post #AYGiBQJGGf7D563MY4 by pixel@desu.social
2023-07-31T23:24:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@desea yeah, that is indeed.some stuff needing to be CWd is fine, but people should be respectful about it and not attack others
(DIR) Post #AYGiCTD8xxqMMwgtXM by atlas_core@pl.starnix.network
2023-07-31T23:24:51.237535Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel should I interpret this as ".art is making the Fediverse look worse for all of us"? Or as ".art's motives are more and more common and that's bad"?
(DIR) Post #AYGiVe094WvfKwknqq by pixel@desu.social
2023-07-31T23:28:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@atlas_core more of the firstmoderation is good, I don't really say anything against that, it's good when mods take care of their spacebut deferation is in quite a few cases thrown around pretty quickly where it shouldn't be
(DIR) Post #AYGiZ5c6rmrFqN9d68 by alinanorakari@broken.graphics
2023-07-31T23:28:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel the BBC spreading transphobia on fedi is inevitable. It's not "some people in the BBC” it’s “The BBC as an institution”.Why wait until somebody gets hurt by it when people on .art seem to prefer the proactive style because that makes .art a safe place.The ability to defederate without a central committee or CEO deciding is the key strength of the fediverse and .art cutting out who the heck they want for what ever reason is exactly what some folks need to be on the fediverse
(DIR) Post #AYGiwrsjZZysCmGieW by pixel@desu.social
2023-07-31T23:33:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alinanorakari I guess that is fair, instances are free to moderate who they want to.and for the BBC, whatever.I'm mostly a bit agitated by a thing that recently happened where a larger instance was cut off for association again, even though having strict moderation for themselves.in most cases it is good that we have the tools to do what we need to do, but if people that are innocent are affected it just kinda sucks.
(DIR) Post #AYGj2UuZt9pEhYocTo by gpowerf@qoto.org
2023-07-31T23:34:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel I agree with you. I’m more for just blocking a handful of instances that are just for trolling and everything else is up to individual users to block.
(DIR) Post #AYGj2bVJNUm39E32ZM by atlas_core@pl.starnix.network
2023-07-31T23:34:16.551582Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel absolutely agreed.As much as some defederations, to my eyes, are a lot of the time nothing more but bias and offense over beliefs, in some cases they can be understandable (for example, when all your users don't want to interact with an instance and you're certain of that (maybe it's entirely against the purpose of your instance), when they are first and foremost malware-focused, or when it's a single user instance and you just want to make a statement, of which no one can prevent that anyways.)I feel users should be reminded of their powers to block and mute other users (and instances), and administrators should be reminded of users' rights to entitle themselves to their freedoms and beliefs, and should not make decisions "for everyone" by infringing aforementioned entitlements. (Unless the ToS states otherwise.)Isn't that why some have fled centralized services anyway? Abysmal moderation from the big names? We all long for something better, not this.
(DIR) Post #AYGjCdm9mppX5aiHBI by olives@qoto.org
2023-07-31T23:35:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel Noting that I have a few friends, although not here, who have a few pretty dumb views (conservatism...).Sometimes, it's like we talk past each other... When it comes to a few issues. So, I have an idea of what that can be like.I think that every instance tends to have it's own standard (and I'm not thinking of instances dedicated to hate per se), more or less, and it's probably not tenable to carve up the map everywhere.
(DIR) Post #AYGjLLoHx4OTyZrbTU by kirby@waifuism.life
2023-07-31T23:37:39.961628Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@alinanorakari @pixel >when somebody gets hurtWhen they cry? Who gives a crap? They have tools at their disposal to silence them, unless they are being attacked by users of that instance of course. That’s when an admin needs to get involved. The entire idea of “please defederate them, they hurt my feelings” is a horrible idea.
(DIR) Post #AYGjQpZ8kSIZi3OJ4C by lina@eientei.org
2023-07-31T23:38:35.212249Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@kirby @alinanorakari @pixel how can you even take this thread seriously when they're talking about BBC of all things lmao
(DIR) Post #AYGjS2KWmCApaS8CCe by kirby@waifuism.life
2023-07-31T23:38:52.789572Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@alinanorakari @pixel also, guilt by association is not a healthy policy for the fediverse. This has been echoed thousands of times
(DIR) Post #AYGjVNoTMM7f5GjX7I by kirby@waifuism.life
2023-07-31T23:39:28.796621Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lina @alinanorakari @pixel slightly diverging into a general topic rather than trying to mention the BBC.
(DIR) Post #AYGjW5RH9xiAO4Dd4K by alinanorakari@broken.graphics
2023-07-31T23:39:27Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel it may suck for some people who are not on .art, yes, maybe even for some on .art, who would hopefully have spoken up. I would guess they were ok with the decisionSome decisions can't be made fairly without also making them a lot of work. I'm sure It’s a tradeoff the mod of .art made to keep the marginalized users there safe. If in doubt decide in favor of their own users. Reduce moderation work in order to be able to keep doing it. Nobody is being held hostage on any instance
(DIR) Post #AYGjXNhKl65hJ2LaCm by jeff@federated.fun
2023-07-31T23:39:45.636027Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel forgive me fedi for i have sinned, i federate with the.usualsuspects.lol
(DIR) Post #AYGjcpTWuVsmu6UKcC by lina@eientei.org
2023-07-31T23:40:42.455309Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@kirby @alinanorakari @pixel i think you can't escape the BBC once it's been mentioned because it's probably the funniest acronym on the internet next to CP :cp: :cptext:
(DIR) Post #AYGjyPatognH0QE6rY by pixel@desu.social
2023-07-31T23:44:36Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@alinanorakari all of these points are validI'm just thinking about new users mostly, artists tend to be one of the crowd moving here mostlyand if people are not really accustomed to fedi, but encounter issues with the federation aspect, that's just a point where they might go back to Twitter if they can talk to their friends theresimply because even if instance migration is possible, it is a hassle to people.we don't need to water down what's currently there for new people...
(DIR) Post #AYGk7Fhvwa24wvjSuO by pixel@desu.social
2023-07-31T23:46:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alinanorakari ...but all of these things are problems that might cause people to not stick to here.Of course, fedi is not for everyone too, and .art does not need to bow down if it's their choice.
(DIR) Post #AYGkK9Y09tQxbnEpUm by alinanorakari@broken.graphics
2023-07-31T23:48:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel I wonder why the needs of new people take precedence over the needs of existing fedi users for you. I would argue it should be the other way around. How would you feel if a vaguely bigoted instance popped up and you were on an instance that decided not to defederate for the benefit of twitter users who might want to migrate there?
(DIR) Post #AYGl2qZDZdt1m07QbQ by pixel@desu.social
2023-07-31T23:56:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alinanorakari I mean, having both things would be great.and, if my instance were not to act, I as a user have the tools to make sure I don't have to deal with users/the instance myself.it can be handled both ways really, and it's up to an instance.
(DIR) Post #AYGq4HqY8NouRJjPsW by m0xee@social.librem.one
2023-08-01T00:53:00Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@lina BBC is an institution. Big Black… Sea 🤫@alinanorakari @pixel @kirby
(DIR) Post #AYGqwNu3pdW6rTAa0G by jeff@federated.fun
2023-08-01T01:02:42.858703Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@pixel @alinanorakari dont recommend new users use mastodon. direct them to a small pleroma run by a friend you both know.
(DIR) Post #AYGr71J0Bq29xeuIs4 by pixel@desu.social
2023-08-01T01:04:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff that's not going to work for the non-technically versed.Mastodon already was kinda tough and they at least seem to somewhat get Misskey, since that recently got a pushBut Akko/Pleroma? That still needs some work before people consider it.
(DIR) Post #AYGrFMR1W0dtoFdVeS by jeff@federated.fun
2023-08-01T01:06:07.140375Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel i am not suggesting they self host. i am suggesting they join a small single or double digit user count pleroma.
(DIR) Post #AYGrLD2RMdfOP7vVEO by pixel@desu.social
2023-08-01T01:07:09Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@jeff not suggesting that eitherI am telling you that people wouldn't consider Pleroma based on how it looks and feels.
(DIR) Post #AYGrVyhH1deJ6vA1yq by jeff@federated.fun
2023-08-01T01:09:08.381731Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel i disagree and having such low expectations of new users is why so many people despise mastodon type outreach. users are FAR smarter than you let them be
(DIR) Post #AYGrflPtFxPeomhDeq by BronzeAgeHogCranker@geofront.rocks
2023-08-01T00:05:36.765645Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
>the mastodon home for artists!>you are not allowed to show your art to anyone
(DIR) Post #AYGrm0xGOl3akMHpuC by pixel@desu.social
2023-08-01T01:11:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff that's fair, I am speaking of personal experience and what I noticed in twitter-to-fedi migrations before.not saying everyone is like that, but a sizable group definitely is.
(DIR) Post #AYGrtmgFM1qCnA23Ie by jeff@federated.fun
2023-08-01T01:13:26.185698Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel the pleroma fe ui is an adventure of exploration almost like a zelda game, you just need a few initial hints to a new user and they LOVE it.
(DIR) Post #AYGryPT35QoYFL444e by pixel@desu.social
2023-08-01T01:14:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff also, people don't get the federation aspect when first getting in here, so they'd want their friends all to be on the same instance ("everyone is on X, so I'm more inclined to be there")and not just friends, but interesting people too...whatever that constitutes, but that's an argument too.
(DIR) Post #AYGs2Oy6srQJrCUrHU by jeff@federated.fun
2023-08-01T01:15:00.196726Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel federation conceptually clicks a lot faster with pleroma fe
(DIR) Post #AYGsG8VWsknyrHg41I by pixel@desu.social
2023-08-01T01:17:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff I can't confirm nor deny that.I've mainly been hanging around on Mastodon or Misskey instances (latter only because I contributed to it), I haven't had a chance/reason to work much with Pleroma FE aside of external usage.
(DIR) Post #AYGsPQ9SeROyBdmZai by jeff@federated.fun
2023-08-01T01:19:09.651469Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel you gotta give it a go before having opinions like "its not technically viable".so far in my own experience it is he ONLY viable ux i have seen for new user onboarding.
(DIR) Post #AYGsl58rRfuPOgpYbw by pixel@desu.social
2023-08-01T01:23:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff fair point
(DIR) Post #AYGsn9hhSHpe7o7BgW by Maholmire@crlf.ninja
2023-08-01T01:23:30.941248Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
A lot of the degenerates on the dark side of the Fediverse are needlessly antagonistic and hostile to libtards to the point where it vindicates their beliefs in the need for extreme censorship. This isn’t conducive to the cultivation of a healthy environment and only goes to prove the $Mastodon community right in continuing to do as they have. We should all be able to just sit down and engage in civil discourse on our differences in good faith irrespective of where we may fall on the cultural, political, or religious spectrum. Fighting intolerance with further intolerance only continues to extend the issue into perpetuity. Instead, we need to set clear boundaries and know not to overstep them forcing our beliefs onto other people. That applies not only to those actively trying to censor us but to ourselves as well. If people really want to make a difference in the world, then do so not by perpetuating the toxicity of shock and outrage culture but by cultivating a culture of tolerance where everyone can exist peacefully irrespective of their religious, cultural, or personal views.What a lot of people don’t seem to understand is that this political dogma between left and right is having the knock-on effect of stifling everybody else’s liberties. Being needlessly toxic to Libards and having them respond back in turn only serves to reinforce the stigma and biases of either side respectfully. We’re not in the Paleolithic era anymore, we need to identify this nonsense for the tribalism it is and work on moving past that for the benefit of us all. This isn’t something that is achieved by a governing body of large instance owners imposing their own rules on the rest of the #Fediverse, neither is it by weaponizing autism to force those same instances away. It is through clear and open communication conducted in good faith with the mutual interest in the betterment of the Fediverse in its entirety and not just the interests of yourself or your instance.While it is my firm belief that we should aspire to be tolerant of differing beliefs, that doesn’t necessarily give those abusing your good faith a free pass. I’ve even told as much to @bot the other day. I do think that it should also be tempered with civility. Treat others as you would want to treat yourself. There’s no reason to immediately and needlessly be toxic to someone when they haven’t otherwise incited you to do so.
(DIR) Post #AYGszUGWpheBN4Hn2e by jeff@federated.fun
2023-08-01T01:25:41.025209Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel i've tried to like glitch soapbox and all the others and they just dont really have the adventure and discovery of pleroma fe, they are just kinda sucky and boring. there is a lot of magic and excitement discovering more and mote as you use it which really keeps new users far better than ever other solution so far.
(DIR) Post #AYGtELt0GmfJj6N1NY by Maholmire@crlf.ninja
2023-08-01T01:28:26.406440Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Maholmire
(DIR) Post #AYGtO1vDLqwYhi1G7s by jeff@federated.fun
2023-08-01T01:30:06.898016Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel when you have a new user ask "how do i do X?" and you tell them it's next to the Y and Z they fo "woah it has Y an Z?" and it keeps rewarding discovery. by showing just how much us possible via this users get hooked HARD right away
(DIR) Post #AYGvI5spuQSPA5Cigq by Maholmire@crlf.ninja
2023-08-01T01:51:31.279136Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Chimping out over what graphical frontend you use on the Fediverse is pretty stupid, about as much as the identity political-driven and biased blocklists are. People should ultimately be able to choose whichever software or instances with which they wish to interact. While I understand the pragmatism behind defederating with degenerate instances like those to protect your community from abusive people, you need to remember that you also risk doing so at the exclusion of many others that have done nothing else wrong. Fediblocking is often used as the first line of defense to such an extent that the greater Fediverse pokes fun at Mastodon instances for facilitating block-happy echo chambers. While I do agree that such an extreme measure will have to be taken eventually, I do think that responsible communities should treat it for it is, an absolute last resort that should be used when all other avenues have been exhausted. I.E, communicating with the instance’s administration first, performing a risk assessment on the ratio of genuinely malicious to non-malicious users before then taking action to fediblock.Calling someone a slur or making a statement that may not sit well or otherwise align with your values are not reasons to #fediblock entire instances. I know plenty of good people among “the usual suspects“ that I actively associate with because the few degenerates among them do not represent their instance in its entirety. I truly do wish more #mastodon users and instances would understand that rather than going on to fediblock entire instances over one person for guilt by association.
(DIR) Post #AYGvPZE7D5aKC9ikdc by Maholmire@mastodon.scot
2023-08-01T01:52:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Ope.
(DIR) Post #AYGvPZuIgFKSIzSROK by Maholmire@crlf.ninja
2023-08-01T01:52:52.792290Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Chimping out over what graphical frontend you use on the Fediverse is pretty stupid, about as much as the identity political-driven and biased blocklists are. People should ultimately be able to choose whichever software or instances with which they wish to interact. While I understand the pragmatism behind defederating with degenerate instances like those to protect your community from abusive people, you need to remember that you also risk doing so at the exclusion of many others that have done nothing else wrong. Fediblocking is often used as the first line of defense to such an extent that the greater Fediverse pokes fun at Mastodon instances for facilitating block-happy echo chambers. While I do agree that such an extreme measure will have to be taken eventually, I do think that responsible communities should treat it for it is, an absolute last resort that should be used when all other avenues have been exhausted. I.E, communicating with the instance’s administration first, performing a risk assessment on the ratio of genuinely malicious to non-malicious users before then taking action to fediblock.Calling someone a slur or making a statement that may not sit well or otherwise align with your values are not reasons to #fediblock entire instances. I know plenty of good people among “the usual suspects“ that I actively associate with because the few degenerates among them do not represent their instance in its entirety. I truly do wish more #mastodon users and instances would understand that rather than going on to fediblock entire instances over one person for guilt by association.
(DIR) Post #AYI5DSNc2AeYBVzFho by EricZhang456@pl.starnix.network
2023-08-01T15:17:24.727599Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lina @alinanorakari @pixel @kirby BBC spreading "transphobia" is completely new to me lmao
(DIR) Post #AYID6CrS8JRNf0zxBo by mike@libertynode.net
2023-08-01T16:45:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel hopefully they’ll leave for instances with moderation policies that are more in-line with their viewpoints.
(DIR) Post #AYIJ6mMIkm8dTm5Fia by alcea@pb.todon.de
2023-08-01T17:52:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel A fitting analogy to how the #human #race stagnates..Quite staggering.At #least #instances csn be spun up by #oneself.Which is #great
(DIR) Post #AYK82yuPRLR444wa48 by finlaena@feymar.ch
2023-08-02T14:58:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel Yup. Like, I totally get wanting to block instances that have truly reprehensible content, but blocking for inane reasons like, say, replying _once_ to someone on a "no-no instance" borders on... something I can't find the right word for. Single-user instances are perhaps a solution as you have absolute control and are not beholden to another individual, but it's not a viable one for the majority of users, sadly.
(DIR) Post #AYKdUGwxZJzoPrd83k by ech@qoto.org
2023-08-02T20:50:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel The hilarious part to me here is that stux of all people is complaining about getting defederated or whatever: https://mstdn.social/@stux/110570709034574825 #PotMeetKettle
(DIR) Post #AYKdXt7K7XNnesCZJQ by ech@qoto.org
2023-08-02T20:51:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel The hilarious part to me here is that stux of all people is complaining about getting defederated or whatever: https://mstdn.social/@stux/110570709034574825 #PotMeetKettle
(DIR) Post #AYKdZg7VPkTzva8mVU by ech@qoto.org
2023-08-02T20:51:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixel The hilarious part to me here is that stux of all people is complaining about getting defederated or whatever: https://mstdn.social/@stux/110570709034574825 #PotMeetKettle