Post AXoPbdgRLsay0wINZQ by sil@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by sil@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AXoOVlyhV4sk30TXoe by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T07:30:56Z
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Other than the bizarre pro-Series 60 Nokia story has anyone written any kind of story of how the brief glory period of desktop Linux on the smartphone in 2006-2010 caught fire and fell into the sea?
(DIR) Post #AXoOdwpL31dy0mzj72 by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T07:31:39Z
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And if not, does anyone want to collaborate on that? Because given what I know it's honestly fascinating and most of this does not seem to be public knowledge
(DIR) Post #AXoOwAJrcdtR4OxXw8 by spacehobo@teh.entar.net
2023-07-18T07:34:37Z
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@mjg59 Would you tell the story without putting it in the context of the parallel "netbook" phenomenon of the era?
(DIR) Post #AXoP8OW8f06OZyX3J2 by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T07:38:04Z
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@spacehobo I think that ends up as a parallel interesting story that ended up having less influence over the world?
(DIR) Post #AXoPTFdyqZeX8j94Xg by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T07:40:48Z
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@12 That is a stronger reaction to Maemo than I remember anyone having at the time, and there were some strong Maemo enthusiasts at the time
(DIR) Post #AXoPbdgRLsay0wINZQ by sil@mastodon.social
2023-07-18T07:41:07Z
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@mjg59 https://www.domusweb.it/en/design/2011/12/15/portable-cathedrals.amp.html is primarily about industrial design, and is hopeful rather than documenting the death, but it’s probably relevant
(DIR) Post #AXoQ11LyU7T4fGpGCG by keithzg@fediverse.keithzg.ca
2023-07-18T07:42:36.424424Z
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@mjg59 I'm very curious about this myself. The main bit I remember from back in that day is https://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/my-disagreement-with-elop-on-meego/ which is only a single very tiny peak into things.
(DIR) Post #AXoQ12GL6YYRU5CH3I by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T07:47:21Z
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@keithzg Felipe was on a team adjacent to the actual hardware team rather than on it, and eh well for various reasons I would not trust him to be a reliable source here
(DIR) Post #AXoQA7i8DYJIzJWv2G by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T07:48:30Z
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@12 Well it's not *entirely* outside the realm of reactions people have had to me, so
(DIR) Post #AXoQJnox1UH6CDKpxw by spacehobo@teh.entar.net
2023-07-18T07:50:00Z
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@mjg59 Perhaps! I see it as a phenomenon that was ultimately destroyed by the modern smartphone on one end, and ultralight laptops on the other. So "what were the smartest phones at the time" may be more of an interesting angle in the netbook story than vice-versa?But it could also just help paint the picture of the weird era when Microsoft had tripped up enough that everyone felt free to try new things, and Apple were still "The iPod Company That Also Makes iMacs".
(DIR) Post #AXoQT8xpmYPcNQwbhI by mariusor@metalhead.club
2023-07-18T07:50:09Z
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@mjg59 probably you know, but the left overs of Nokia post Elop built Jolla and are still trudging on with Sailfish OS. (Which is probably the most usable linux mobile OS available at the moment, with the caveats that a larg-ish part of its UI is not open-source). I've been daily driving it since they launched in 2013.
(DIR) Post #AXoR3COMVyd7QvXqqG by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T07:59:05Z
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@12 *blush*
(DIR) Post #AXoRY3Coid49v5r8wC by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2023-07-18T07:59:24Z
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@spacehobo @mjg59 And here I thought netbooks were killed by javascript...
(DIR) Post #AXoRY3t0BmoI1vapgu by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T08:03:45Z
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@wolf480pl @spacehobo I thought they were killed by having no fucking RAM
(DIR) Post #AXoRhXwXo51TrBlxqa by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2023-07-18T08:05:26Z
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@mjg59 @spacehobo I tried and Intel Atom N570 struggles even if you double the RAM.
(DIR) Post #AXoRqJWolpgBkvv6H2 by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T08:06:41Z
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@wolf480pl @spacehobo Acid Burn looking at her netbook, safly
(DIR) Post #AXoSBxThQwZtjsmYjI by eliasp@mastodon.social
2023-07-18T08:09:17Z
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@mjg59 IIRC, quite a few people from the #KDE community worked for Nokia in Germany back then on #Maemo / #MeeGoMaybe one of them is still around here and can provide some input here?
(DIR) Post #AXoSL3TsU5q6xlCfJI by chrisisgr8@tech.lgbt
2023-07-18T08:09:40Z
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@mjg59 oh shit i forgot about that, would have been super interesting to have that develop though
(DIR) Post #AXoSVav50ybFZDx6rw by rburchell@mastodon.social
2023-07-18T08:15:34Z
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@mjg59 @keithzg I don’t think he’s necessarily wrong though. Sure, you will have some quirks per device rather than per platform, but HW porting scales pretty well.Constantly rewriting UIs and whole tech stacks, each vastly different, though, is going to chew up vastly more effort. Especially when each time you get up to 70% before throwing it out to start on the next thing without ever shipping..Also a huge amount of effort on tech masturbation rather than keeping YAGNI in mind..
(DIR) Post #AXoT3NKK3j0fFtrpw0 by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T08:20:15Z
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@rburchell @keithzg Eh the assumption is that vendors are choosing an SoC and then choosing an OS based on that rather than choosing an OS and choosing an SoC based on that and history *really* says the latter wins
(DIR) Post #AXoTCadBxmNj7m5T7Y by hrw@society.oftrolls.com
2023-07-18T08:21:17Z
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@mjg59 oh. Lovely times...Intel with Moblin on netbooks, Nokia with Maemo on tablets/phone. Then they merged into Meego which landed on one phone(?).Then they merged with Tizen from Samsung and world decided to burry it deep to not scare children.Android came and Maemo/Meego was doomed. Same hardware, much better user experience.
(DIR) Post #AXoTLKxpaAwD8jubXU by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T08:23:19Z
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@hrw Yeah so many poor choices
(DIR) Post #AXoTsDmJJuGEPTChAO by joakimfors@mastodon.green
2023-07-18T08:30:54Z
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@mjg59 Those were the days. I had an N900 (and later a Jolla). Was able to remote into a supermicro IPMI running a java applet from out in the swedish wilderness to rescue a broken storage server from it once. 😅
(DIR) Post #AXoUgRnjSPgMNdoniK by spacehobo@teh.entar.net
2023-07-18T08:38:18Z
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@mjg59 @wolf480pl [[swallows, nodding furiously]] Yeah. RISC is good.
(DIR) Post #AXoUpugxPa32acAB9M by Cwiiis@mastodon.social
2023-07-18T08:39:30Z
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@mjg59 maybe I could help, but there were people closer to it with better memories than me that I know you know 🙂
(DIR) Post #AXoUz2mWheoIHn7cPY by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T08:40:17Z
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@spacehobo @wolf480pl (She clutches her MIPS netbook that's actually event worse)
(DIR) Post #AXoV88wd9u0m0SBeSm by spacehobo@teh.entar.net
2023-07-18T08:44:51Z
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@mjg59 @wolf480pl She won't be laughing after I hook the VGA projector up to my DEC Multia and aim it at my FACE!
(DIR) Post #AXoVG37ufqBaHLEa4u by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T08:45:10Z
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@12 Well thank you! I will try to do more good words
(DIR) Post #AXoVPRvJqhWJn6pFtA by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T08:46:45Z
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@spacehobo @wolf480pl I own a MIPS netbook and I am very sad that it's mipsel so I can't easily run IRIX binaries on it
(DIR) Post #AXoVbWNB8GFn47c4A4 by ersatzmaus@mastodon.social
2023-07-18T08:50:19Z
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@mjg59 I remember some of what went on around the N900/N9
(DIR) Post #AXoWIpwoEJ8QE9vvyC by spacehobo@teh.entar.net
2023-07-18T08:58:15Z
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@mjg59 @wolf480pl Can it even play Underworld oggs while showing on-screen animations?
(DIR) Post #AXoWRpVTEqovSxQypM by mjg59@nondeterministic.computer
2023-07-18T08:59:04Z
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@spacehobo @wolf480pl I had to dispose of the battery because it was well enthusiastically bulging but I suspect it would probably be coerced into that
(DIR) Post #AXoaVsmpNwzic6jzxA by resuna@ohai.social
2023-07-18T09:44:50Z
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@mjg59 @wolf480pl @spacehobo My Libretto was killed by boot failure, and my Latitude is still working just fine.
(DIR) Post #AXoafbDvXSMx2U38ls by resuna@ohai.social
2023-07-18T09:46:44Z
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@mjg59 I installed Familiar on my iPaq and I never got through to the "glory" bit. When was the "glory" supposed to have started?
(DIR) Post #AXoesD6UvVE9oWqMU4 by Jaffa@social.linux.pizza
2023-07-18T10:33:53Z
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@mjg59 There was "The Story of Nokia's #Maemo & #MeeGo" by Sampsa Kurri. Original link 404s, but it's archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20121030094913/http://taskumuro.com/artikkelit/the-story-of-nokia-meegoI also remember a series of blogs by another insider, talking of the wider context of what was going on at #Nokia. Memory (and Google) failing me though.
(DIR) Post #AXp83bESSIAyVFLkem by jriddell@social.opendesktop.org
2023-07-18T16:00:56Z
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@mjg59 ah meetings in Mountain view with Nokia execs wanting to find the latest gossip on what these KDE people were like to work with, I wasn't exactly the smoothest of talkers, I do hope I didn't kill it all by being too inelegant.
(DIR) Post #AXp8pauUxIUtP8tpia by keithp@fosstodon.org
2023-07-18T16:09:41Z
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@mjg59 After a week-long junket to lake Como and Monza, I interviewed at Nokia in 2005 to work on this stuff. I asked which of Series-60 or Symbian was being replaced by Linux. Their answer encouraged me to find alternative employment.
(DIR) Post #AXp9577tSWodfGZ79k by landley@mstdn.jp
2023-07-18T16:12:30Z
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@mjg59 @rburchell @keithzg As soon as the Linux foundation got involved I expected doom.
(DIR) Post #AXpBg0VXEJhHlBLLNo by alatiera@mastodon.social
2023-07-18T16:41:04Z
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@mjg59 👀@ebassi
(DIR) Post #AXpCHliwdyPAugcbnU by halla@fosstodon.org
2023-07-18T16:47:48Z
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@mjg59 I'd say it's too late. So much of the source material of the era is gone, like the mailing list where someone called for action to avoid kcalendar getting into Maemo because... I don't remember. My memory is inexact, and the list is gone.It was a weird and wonderful time. I'm glad I was part of it, but these days I have to admit I would have done better to spend all my time on #krita instead of /maemo/meego.Not that that would have paid my mortgage, back then, and Nokia did.
(DIR) Post #AXpEYrp7Q1Fgf6n3wm by brot@social.tchncs.de
2023-07-18T17:13:38Z
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@mjg59 I went drinking with the Ulm division of Nokia (who were working on meego) the day Elon fired all of them on a video call. If interested, i could ask if anyone wants to chat with you. Since I have not seen 95% of them since that day, I can't guarantee anyone will respond though