Post AXhbx8CSvTpC5HZQ36 by gnat@tech.lgbt
(DIR) More posts by gnat@tech.lgbt
(DIR) Post #AXgvsJt5qfgaoGX3se by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-07-14T17:08:27Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
"It's Official: Smartphones Will Need To Have Replaceable Batteries By 2027"Good, now make it mandatory by 2025 instead. And make the battery the same on all smartphones, similar to the earlier USB-C decision.I can hear the screams of the lobbyists, but I don't care. 4 years is way too long. The mergency is NOW.https://www.androidauthority.com/phones-with-replaceable-batteries-2027-3345155/https://mobile.slashdot.org/story/23/07/13/2037211/its-official-smartphones-will-need-to-have-replaceable-batteries-by-2027
(DIR) Post #AXgwR7lEvXeLKpSGFE by Uilebheist@chaos.social
2023-07-14T17:14:36Z
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@ParadeGrotesque No, make it mandatory by 2025 or when a new model gets to market, whichever is sooner.It they are designing a new one, what's the excuse?
(DIR) Post #AXhHiVyQFxVmOCkqky by josephholsten@mstdn.social
2023-07-14T21:13:05Z
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@ParadeGrotesque But think of all the innovation we’ve lost because of AA batteries! How dare consumers be able to compare storage degradation, kWh, and price!? They’re /our/ consumers, we bought them fair and square.
(DIR) Post #AXhNt0Hr0RUz1eEDNA by moffintosh@berserker.town
2023-07-14T22:22:19Z
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@ParadeGrotesque Dicember 2023
(DIR) Post #AXhUFOaPwRIYU6yJ60 by lori@hackers.town
2023-07-14T23:33:26Z
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@ParadeGrotesque I posted recently about how a review for a 2004 Sony PDA I own complained that it didn't have a user replaceable battery.It has a little compartment on the side you remove one screw from, then from there can unplug the battery pack which has a standard simple connector and it just slides out, you slide the new one in and pop the connector back in.This was considered too technical to be user replaceable back then, but I'd KILL for that now.
(DIR) Post #AXhXn7gpZJybmzkHwG by lkngrrr@hachyderm.io
2023-07-15T00:12:16Z
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@ParadeGrotesque 2025 is inside of the design cycle for Li+ power management. 2027 actually is the right number if you don’t want shit blowing up in your pants pocket.
(DIR) Post #AXhYVFy89HUwCwsjku by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-07-15T00:21:04Z
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@lkngrrr Wait - just so that I understand - you are telling me it takes FOUR YEARS to design a Li+ battery?I call bullshit. I will bet you most phones use batteries that are already pretty much OEM standardized. You have battery X, Y and Z, with some common elements, voltage, input, output, what have you.Now, if you are talking wireless chargers AND removable batteries, you maybe onto something. But the batteries themselves? Take a look here:https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?tab=all&searchText=OEM+phone+batteries
(DIR) Post #AXhZI2Dc3ogrkfNniy by lkngrrr@hachyderm.io
2023-07-15T00:29:53Z
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@ParadeGrotesque Yes, I’m very aware of garbage-tier lipoly that you can buy from every shithole in Shenzhen, Chengdu, and Guangdong. Go ahead and use it, but I’m sure your rental insurer just threw up and didn’t know why.A battery has:* the Li+ lump itself* power mgmt circuitry, custom-cut to the application and battery, that manages the lump and supplies charge* low-level SW to talk to that circuitry* SDKs for higher-level SW to manage it* a FUCKLOAD of regulatory and tolerance testing
(DIR) Post #AXhZnKYbvaCVba7xnE by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-07-15T00:35:41Z
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@lkngrrr Oh, I am sure batteries from respectable manufacturers have got tons of things, but I am also sure that's an even better reason to standardize things and not change everything every 6 months.In other words, if Apple is designing the next generation of iPhone, they have, what? 3, 4, 5 battery suppliers? Those who have been through all the hoops, and offer a fairly standard product, with maybe a custom IC and minor improvements or two in there.This is now a fairly stable industry.
(DIR) Post #AXha6gxEsav6ZSsZma by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-07-15T00:39:15Z
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@lkngrrr Seriously, though, I don't think batteries require extensive redesigns, to the point that several YEARS are needed.If you had a completely NEW technology - let's say Vibranium / Unobtanium compound, yeah, I would agree several years would probably be needed to get those on the market. But Lithium? Probably not.
(DIR) Post #AXhaIViiTRq5CgipPc by lkngrrr@hachyderm.io
2023-07-15T00:37:05Z
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@ParadeGrotesque (btw, cutting the corners on that last point was why you saw Samsung Galaxy Note 7’s exploding all over the place, they skimped on their physical tolerancing. Li+ batteries swell a little when they get warm, and without enough room to swell up they went kablooey)
(DIR) Post #AXhaIWVdXYyFePbtfE by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-07-15T00:41:10Z
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@lkngrrr OK, you have a point there.
(DIR) Post #AXhaIgANdRuRbNk3v6 by lkngrrr@hachyderm.io
2023-07-15T00:40:56Z
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@ParadeGrotesque Absolutely not. You choose a primary source and, if you find one that can get close enough, a secondary source. Managing 3+ vendors for traceability and quality would make my Supply Chain people burn down my car and shove it in the swamp.This is one of those components where brand name really does matter.There are only two Li+ manufacturers I’d entertain, and only one that I’ve bet my wellbeing on. I suspect the story isn’t that much different for consumer devices.
(DIR) Post #AXhaZnimncrHxL01Ls by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-07-15T00:44:26Z
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@lkngrrr OK, I stand corrected. But all the more reason to put some PRESSURE on these manufacturers.I just can't believe it's 2023 and we have to negotiate with people so that they design products for the long haul, recycling included.
(DIR) Post #AXhaiiQ7sTW07bWQXg by lkngrrr@hachyderm.io
2023-07-15T00:42:08Z
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@ParadeGrotesque Believe what you like, but mobile-robotic Li+ power management is literally my professional bag so I might have some experience here.
(DIR) Post #AXhb5cdhXO74qunJqa by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-07-15T00:50:04Z
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@lkngrrr No, I believe you - you have some solid arguments, so I stand corrected, and I appreciate your feedback.
(DIR) Post #AXhbTXADXyhYovPDHc by lkngrrr@hachyderm.io
2023-07-15T00:53:46Z
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@ParadeGrotesque I’m totally with you that consumer industries can absolutely benefit from standardization!Legislation/regulation is a great push in this regard (as you note with the USB-C connector!).The only other way to get rapid switchover that I could see is some sort of revolutionary Unobtainium power tech whose sole producer required those standardizations in order to license their tech. Inductive charging, again as you mentioned, really does provide an example there.
(DIR) Post #AXhbmh5grYy96uQNA8 by lkngrrr@hachyderm.io
2023-07-15T00:54:26Z
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@ParadeGrotesque All good! I don’t mind folks holding their ground at all. You weren’t being a dick :)
(DIR) Post #AXhbx8CSvTpC5HZQ36 by gnat@tech.lgbt
2023-07-15T00:59:19Z
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@ParadeGrotesque @lkngrrr not only that but people are going to be working late pretty much every day for those four years, yes. batteries are just one part of the engineering that needs to happen now.five thousand hardware engineers around the world just got a headache thinking about how they’re going to waterproof consumer devices with a zero-tools user-accessible hatch.(waterproofing is why you probably don’t have a 3.5mm jack on your phone anymore, btw.)ultimate conclusion: it’s really easy to underestimate the size of the difference between “technically plausible” and “good enough”. 4 years is quite aggressive but borderline realistic, and I’m really happy to see it.
(DIR) Post #AXhzt6KqJcsg2f6Fk0 by cazabon@mindly.social
2023-07-15T05:28:02Z
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@ParadeGrotesque We also need to #standardize Li #cells as well. Right now, it's as if every 1920s radio manufacturer that ever was had their own different, proprietary, and incompatible A, B, and C batteries, and we still had to live with that, buying batteries only from the manufacturer of the device.This is perfectly feasible. We have #cylindrical cell standards, now we just have to define them for #prismatic #pouch cells. Make battery #sellers #compete on #quality and #price.
(DIR) Post #AXiwyzfPunQgOUnkA4 by holgerjakobs@norden.social
2023-07-15T16:30:08Z
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@ParadeGrotesque Unfortunately not.https://www.giga.de/news/apple-und-samsung-atmen-auf-eu-kassiert-neue-akku-regel/Sorry that is only in German. Don't have another source.
(DIR) Post #AXj00iBOBy6GbpGbku by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-07-15T17:03:43Z
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@holgerjakobs Well... F*CK.
(DIR) Post #AXri7lO9YPnjvSisXg by wooliex@mastodon.social
2023-07-19T21:55:49Z
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@ParadeGrotesque I've been using smart phones for two decades and I'm not sure I can describe the battery replacement situation as an emergency.
(DIR) Post #AXsPZLyFwiLXEQ0oVM by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-07-20T06:02:01Z
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@wooliex It's a step in the right direction.