Post AXhC2kuRpqo2mMAEDI by cypnk@hackers.town
(DIR) More posts by cypnk@hackers.town
(DIR) Post #AXgzIPoqiXn6b7gLwW by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-07-14T10:15:52Z
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Apropos of nothing, one observation I’ve heard people who used to be involved in labour negotiations here in Iceland is “people with American brain worms don’t know how to negotiate with unions”(Paraphrasing, since the original is always in Icelandic.)This is noticable in that you can guess with reasonable certainty, which company is run by an executive trained in the US just by how badly they are handling union contract negotiations
(DIR) Post #AXgzIR7JtM9ychKcN6 by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-07-14T10:15:52Z
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This frequently becomes a problem for them because 98-9% of the working population in Iceland is unionTheir big mistake is they always do something absolutely horrifying as a show of force which then backfires because in collective bargaining, the unity of the collective doing the bargaining and its support in broader society matters a lot.
(DIR) Post #AXgzIRuaw9Zj5WNyAy by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-07-14T10:15:52Z
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“American brain worms” is a thing we talk about regularly among my friends and family here in Iceland. It’s become really noticable that people who go to study in the US come back with extremely strange ideas. Noticably anti-union, libertarian (by Icelandic standards), pro-violence in all sorts of context, etc (Iceland is a broadly pacifist country with no army). You don’t see the same massive indoctrination in people who go and study in other countries.
(DIR) Post #AXgzISpfVxEFwX5Y8W by simeon@indiehackers.social
2023-07-14T10:31:22Z
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@baldur Do you know what mechanism are at play? How is the indoctrination happening?
(DIR) Post #AXgzITP7O9aLiTfrOK by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-07-14T15:33:30Z
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My dad just reminded me of what my granddad used to say about Fulbright scholarship students.If you aren't familiar, the Fulbright program gives out grants to help non-US students come to the US to study.My granddad (who worked for the US Navy as a translator and researcher for decades) used to call the program Halfbright, because all the students came back from the US half as bright as when they left.Which suggests that this isn't a new phenomenon.
(DIR) Post #AXgzITe0UnUkSedkbA by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-07-14T10:35:55Z
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@simeon I don’t really know, but my guess is that it has something to do with the eucation system. I’ve noticed with the people I meet here in Iceland that the effect seems to be the strongest in those who studied in the US and weakest in those who only went there to work.TBH, it was the weakest in one person who I know who went their as a spouse and wasn’t allowed to work while they lived there. She came back with a pretty low opinion of US society in general.(As well as a divorce.)
(DIR) Post #AXhC2kuRpqo2mMAEDI by cypnk@hackers.town
2023-07-14T10:57:18Z
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@baldur @simeon Part of it is education, but most is powerful brainwashing. What I mean is, most people in positions of power in the U.S. business world, either directly or indirectly, will denigrate or question collective bargaining and worker rights in general Business schools in particular place emphasis on connections and those tend to be with other business leaders with a similar mindset. To maintain those connections, you end up assimilating some of the same thoughts and mannerismsSource: Went to business school
(DIR) Post #AXhC2lkugmm1P4i7zU by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-07-14T11:00:57Z
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@cypnk @simeon That explains a lot. Makes sense, thanks.
(DIR) Post #AXhC2mTa0iVDdbbnc0 by cavyherd@wandering.shop
2023-07-14T11:33:11Z
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@baldur @cypnk @simeon Remember that the US originated as an expansive imperialist extractive slave state (and in many respects remains one), which colors /every/ aspect of relations between authority and the populace (as well as the relation between the populace and its environment). I'd bet long odds that's where the "violent coercion" you're seeing is coming from.
(DIR) Post #AXhC2nQQTvZea78nKq by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2023-07-14T20:09:37Z
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@cavyherd @baldur @cypnk @simeon The all of this (and the rest of the thread) but something I wanted to add... In the US there is barely any education. They (powers-that-be) don't want it/need it. Consequently, if you love to learn and you are in school they will spend their time trying to make you conform not educate. It is the last step (and more necessary one at that) in the all of this. As they say, be ungovernable.
(DIR) Post #AXhCa4IGmnqeSEBuXQ by cavyherd@wandering.shop
2023-07-14T20:15:33Z
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@Aviva_Gary @baldur @cypnk @simeon Yep, to all of that.