Post AXbSAqvLn2Ri4Fi2tM by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #AXbO3iczpuzAUhT2C8 by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T00:47:05Z
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I normally don't comment on #climatechange issues because I work with chaotic systems for a living. The weather is an example of a chaotic system. The thing with dynamical systems is that they are bifurcated, sensitive to initial conditions, and largely irreversible and deterministic. They're also logarithmic. Basically, if we did everything right today, we're probably too late because we would still be dealing with a exponential cascade over the years because of the Lyapunov exponent.
(DIR) Post #AXbO3jTSgqx97Q0vyK by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T00:52:12Z
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A way I can explain it is that it's physically like trying to reverse death. The entropic and statistical mechanics in processes at work in death are at work in #climatechange. I don't know how to feel, but I'm fairly certain humanity has driven itself into inevitable extinction.
(DIR) Post #AXbO3kExqEwzUkEs0u by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T00:53:59Z
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Yes, it's hot and will continue to get hot because of an exponential cascade of dynamical factors. We waited too long.#climatechange
(DIR) Post #AXbO3kv9JOh7bZyYlc by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-12T00:55:57Z
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@digital_wyrm I mean, that is a real fear... but the indicators dont show that to be the case yet... whether we can avert that ending or not remains to be seen, but its hardly in a run-away condition as of the moment.
(DIR) Post #AXbPrCEAfs7KRJ0o7s by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T01:16:08Z
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@freemo I think people are under the impression that if we stop doing what we're doing it will fix it. We have to reverse things. How do we undo the deaths of organisms that sequester carbon, sequester the carbon in the atmosphere, and transform geographic regions such that these organisms have an ecosystem?
(DIR) Post #AXbQ0rUsbYOj2aR6pc by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-12T01:17:51Z
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@digital_wyrm I guess itdepends on what you mean by "stop doing what we're doing"...In the extreme case if I pulled a thanos snap and wiped humans and all our industry from the face of the earth, even without actively trying to repair the environment I suspect it would repair itself quite nicely without much of an issue or runaway problems.That said such a reality isnt true, and just cutting back carbon emmisions a bit wont solve the problem if thats what you mean.
(DIR) Post #AXbQ7gZ5eG6ZA8ewca by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T01:17:13Z
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@freemo How do we extract protons out of the ocean to make it less acidic?
(DIR) Post #AXbQ7hMMh3WJcxiIQS by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-12T01:19:05Z
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@digital_wyrm Nature reaches balance on its own as long as you dont keep blasting it with more toxins than it can handle. Thankfully the Ph of the ocean hasnt reached the point where it can no longer reach homeostasis should we stop what we were doing.
(DIR) Post #AXbQCdKV6XqgZnC80G by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T01:18:23Z
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@freemo Humans have created large-scale largely irreversible changes. We're actually changing the tilt of the planet. It's not enough to just stop polluting.
(DIR) Post #AXbQCe5eHFYww1FmUa by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-12T01:19:58Z
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@digital_wyrm yes we have made long-term changes.. species we killed are never coming back.. but that isnt the same as suggesting the damage we did has no called a runaway reaction that will continue on its own without humans contributing to it further.
(DIR) Post #AXbQJpgZZ0VevOx3KK by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T01:21:19Z
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@freemo No, that's not how it works. Organisms don't evolve things because they need them. They evolve things relative to their genetic diversity, and humans have driven an appalling loss in biodiversity which will cause a genetic bottleneck such that animals can't adapt.
(DIR) Post #AXbQM5KQNJyk1FfLF2 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-12T01:21:41Z
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@digital_wyrm I didnt say anything about organisms evolving anything, what are you on about?
(DIR) Post #AXbQVZVPXw98DbKQ08 by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T01:23:26Z
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@freemo I assumed animals, otherwise, your nature comment was nonsensical. There's no appropriate context in Physics. It sounds like woo to me
(DIR) Post #AXbQdIn1ZzqggwFkSO by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-12T01:24:48Z
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@digital_wyrm There are animal, plant, and chemical processes that all address ocean acidification... none of which require additional evolution though... so not sure why you mentioned evolution, the current animals/plants/chemicals already act to balance ocean pH (when not overwhelmed by human processes that counteract it of course)
(DIR) Post #AXbQlFJIOs06DV8T44 by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T01:26:16Z
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@freemo These conversations frustrate me. Let's take oxygen. It comes from plants, right? Say we killed ALL the plants, would oxygen just come back on its own? No. Of course not. We've effectively done that with ecosystems that sequester carbon and prevent acidification.
(DIR) Post #AXbR5V5ZRfJaweNF32 by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T01:29:55Z
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@freemo It has no context to me because natural forces related to balance correspond to the principles of least and maximum action or entropy. Life emerges as a consequence of a thermodynamic IMBALANCE that chemically allows for stored energy. It's the reverse. Thermodynamic inequalities allow for chemical energy to be stored.
(DIR) Post #AXbR7ZxYJ6YCd8c9xY by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-12T01:30:16Z
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@digital_wyrmI am sorry you feel frustrated, and that is not my intent. I would not be offended if you didnt wish to have the conversation, please feel free to step away if you;’d like. Otherwise im happy to continue discussing as well. Let’s take oxygen. It comes from plants, right? Say we killed ALL the plants, would oxygen just come back on its own? NoNo not exclusively from plants. Protists, photosynthetic bacteria, and other examples of non-plant oxygen producers exist. So no plants arent our only source of oxygen.That said if we killed off all the plants and only relied on other species for oxygen there would indeed be a mass extinction for many reasons. Life would continue, but it would take a very long time for the earth to recover to the level of diversity we have today. We’ve effectively done that with ecosystems that sequester carbon and prevent acidification.Incorrect, we have not completely killed off all life that sequesters CO2. We have done damage, but not anything remotely that drastic, yet.
(DIR) Post #AXbREsO6BqM7oMVk5g by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-12T01:31:34Z
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@digital_wyrm Yea, sure, i mean without **any** life the chemical processes alone wont mean much.. thankfully there is quite a lot of life... not as much as there was before humans (and that is legitimately very concerning and worth screaming about)... but still no where near as dire as you suggest where **all** CO2 sequestering life is dead.
(DIR) Post #AXbRSCtBHI0t9xPEDQ by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T01:34:01Z
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@freemo No, we killed it. We're currently killing sea lions due to a run away effect of an algae bloom. Are you missing that we are responsible for deforestation and the heavy metals already killed a lot of the ecosystem that sequestered carbon?
(DIR) Post #AXbRjd9qrd47YPVn8q by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-12T01:37:09Z
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@digital_wyrm No, Im not missing that... I have clearly stated we have done a lot of damage, and it is perfectly valid to say "we are killing life on the planet"... we are, its true, no arguments there.But there is a big leap between "we are killing" and "we have killed off **all** life capable of CO2 sequestering" as you claimed... Yes we killed things, but there is no indiciation there is an unstoppable runaway reaction that will kill off all life right now even if we stopped 100% of the bad shit we do... none at all.In fact every indication is that while there **is** a point where things begin a run away reaction that could lead to a mass extinction we just arent there yet... we've identified a lot of those scenarios and have reasonablly ok ideas as to how to detect them and where the tipping point is... and the truth is, we have **not** passed it yet, but we very well may if we dont get our shit together.Its simply not as hopeless as you suggest, even if it is bad and does deserve serious action.
(DIR) Post #AXbRnz5FHpoIiJQvRo by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T01:37:58Z
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@freemo You're frustrating me because you're arguments are predicated on a teleological argument, which in that aspect, exemplifies the religious beliefs that got us into this mess. Instead of using science, you're using spiritual tropes about nature that doesn't address the problems.
(DIR) Post #AXbRxoXfKpOuuoPinQ by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-12T01:39:41Z
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@digital_wyrmI am not, for starters I am a published scientists, so please dont accuse me of something i already have a proven track record to the contrary.Second as I said whatever your reason for frustration, even if it is unfounded, as I said if that frustration bothers you I wont take offense if you wish to walk away fromt he conversation for your own mental health if it is too stressful to have an academic discussion.
(DIR) Post #AXbS3SNUeZEBucLXX6 by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T01:40:45Z
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@freemo See, this right here is the problem. People refuse to believe that it is this dire. By the way, I work in a field of biology, so I see the numbers everyday. We're in trouble. Big trouble.
(DIR) Post #AXbSApqLo8quiSMXSa by digital_wyrm@mastodon.online
2023-07-12T01:38:49Z
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@freemo I gave you several problems that need to be addressed. You gave a solution to not one.
(DIR) Post #AXbSAqvLn2Ri4Fi2tM by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-12T01:42:03Z
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@digital_wyrm Sure, and? I never said the problems you stated werent problems, I never said they werent serious. As for solutions, yes I stated one extreme one already, if humans stopped all industrial processes completely. What I didnt do was explain to you the natural processes that, should the humans stop polluting, could lead to these problems healing themselves (or atleast the ecosystem as a whole)... Id be happy to get into those cycles if you'd like, but you spent more time with personal attacks then simply asking what they were, so I wasnt exactly presented with the opportunity to go into that.
(DIR) Post #AXbSI4cNH5ScZ8HDVo by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-12T01:43:22Z
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@digital_wyrm Yes its dire, yes we are in trouble, big trouble.... but not the trouble you claim: an irreversable runaway reaction that would result in extinction even if humans stopped all industrial processes today.... that claim is simply not true... saying that claim is untrue doesnt mean it isnt dire, as I pointed out that may not be true yet, but we are a lot closer to that reality than we should be comfortable with.