Post AXXDRdhsrEd1kPNI3c by alecui@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by alecui@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #AXXA3JJuhfJZhts1I0 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-09T23:59:10Z
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“There is no radical left”.Here are some tweets from the radical left.https://mstdn.social/@MysticaRose/110686801014092825
(DIR) Post #AXXDRdhsrEd1kPNI3c by alecui@qoto.org
2023-07-10T00:04:48Z
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@TruthSandwich interesting how you’re presenting tweets with bullshit highlighter on from one specific account. Gtfo outta here you goofy ass conservative
(DIR) Post #AXXDReTjzIuS8plVeS by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T00:24:44Z
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@alecuiYes, one specific account: the official account of the Justice Democrats. In other words, the exactly correct account.But if you want to see St. Bernard brag about not being a Democrat, that’s even easier, because he’s been saying it for decades and won’t shut up.I’ll even toss in MSNBC’s Chris Hayes bragging about the takeover and Cornel “Spoiler” West praising Trump.Want more?Oh, and by the way, I’m a liberal. Unlike you, I actually oppose fascism. I’m part of the sane left, not the far left.
(DIR) Post #AXXDRf61gxXC3Zg5KK by alecui@qoto.org
2023-07-10T00:30:10Z
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@TruthSandwich part of the left, huh? Your account says otherwise. Also, wanna define what’s the “sane left”, lib?Americans are pathetic, you’ve been gaslit into thinking that the Dems are actually left wing when over here in European politics which are more sane you’d be a pathetic milktoast center right party. You’re not even part of the left, you’re at most an “enlightened” “”"”centrist””””. Or I guess not wanting to kill minorities is too Marxist for you?
(DIR) Post #AXXDS2ldgPUFTIK8si by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T00:33:45Z
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@alecuiThe sane left is liberal. The technical term is center left or moderate left, which distinguishes us from the extremists on the far left.Ironically, the Marxist left in America is apathetic about racism. They use the Marxist doctrine of class reductionism to excuse that. But, to be fair, Marx himself was a great big bigot.Even more bigoted than some Euro-trash far-left edgelord insulting all Americans.
(DIR) Post #AXXDS5HyJAXRI9SzYW by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T00:38:10Z
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@TruthSandwichMy guess is that @alecui wrongfully assumes the center of the spectrum is the “average opinion”, which is completely naive to what the left and the right means.Basically, yea the left int he USA is a bit more to the right than the left in europe, sure. And the right in europe is far less represented. But the center is the center, and it is based on ideological not what is popular.
(DIR) Post #AXXDibqR2AY4tZSyRM by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T00:41:17Z
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@freemo @alecuiIt’s very difficult to directly compare party politics across countries, especially when their political systems are radically different.What happens is that specific positions are distributed to one side or the other, so there’s no 1:1 possible.For example, support for a strong social safety net is a centrist position in Europe, a leftist one in America.In contrast, anti-immigration is a rightist position in America, but centrist in Europe.I wrote about this a while back:https://truth-sandwich.com/2021/01/09/why-arent-we-sweden/#politics #european #sweden
(DIR) Post #AXXEFrkMvmttlsUFGK by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T00:47:15Z
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@TruthSandwichI would disagree and say you are following into the same pitfall as @alecui in that case.Fiirst political parties are not the same as left-right political spectrum. While a strong social safety net is generally accepted by most parties in Europe it is still on the ideological left. Because the center doesn’t mean “the mean of all opinions”.I’ve explained before but the best way I can personally simplify the idea of left vs right is the left is where people believe the government needs to regulate things to ensure natural processes do not allow for uneven power balances to manifest that infringes on peoples freedoms… The right believes that natural power dynamics arising are a good thing sometimes even believing central power to be necessary. All of the more “official” definitions basically try to describe this in one way or another, indirectly.Gun freedom will always be a right-leaning idea. The fact that almost no party in europe pushes for gun rights doesnt mean gun rights are suddenly farther right on the spectrum, it just means that europe is less embracing of the right side of the spectrum, at least in that aspect.
(DIR) Post #AXXFErHlGFDQ0MBnkG by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T00:58:15Z
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@freemo @alecui“At least in that aspect” is the key.But not in others.It’s hard to say whether a particular political party under one system is to the left or right of a particular political party in another because the answer usually depends on your metric. In other words, it can be to the left in one sense, to the right in another.You might think that extremists would be an exception: UKIP, for example, is obviously to the right of the DNC, but then you find that UKIP supports the NHS (at least for “real” Brits), whereas even the tattered echoes of the moderate right in America oppose ACA, much less M4A.A standard far-left talking point (both local and foreign) is that America is right-wing compared to more enlightened Europe, and that’s true on some issues, totally false on others.This lie is used to justify the claim that, since the DNC isn’t far left, the US needs a far-left party to take it over.
(DIR) Post #AXXFdBV1l1r1eBzgmm by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:02:40Z
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@TruthSandwich “At least in that aspect” is the key. But not in others.So? Since the center is not defined by the mean it doesnt matter. Even if europe had every single political party ont he left it would still be the left. The center and right would be nonexistant but still ideologically fixed. It’s hard to say whether a particular political party under one system is to the left or right of a particular political party in another because the answer usually depends on your metric. In other words, it can be to the left in one sense, to the right in another.Its not hard to say at all, it is quite simple in fact. I laid out how one could think about it and apply it.. If the party focuses on regulation in an attempt to minimize natural power dynamics occuring, then they are ont he left. The more such regulation they promote the farther to the left they are. Two parties have the same relationship on this scale regardless of what system they are in. You might think that extremists would be an exception: UKIP, for example, is obviously to the right of the DNC, but then you find that UKIP supports the NHS (at least for “real” Brits), whereas even the tattered echoes of the moderate right in America oppose ACA, much less M4A.Extremism is a different matter. Where the line is where a group might find an idea fringe is absolutely relative and a matter of opinion. The center however is fixed and not relative.Its like the number line… how big a number has to get before it is “large” is a matter of opinion and relative to the context. But 0 is always 0, and always the center of the real number line.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXG8ZR4oSyOrT70ng by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:08:23Z
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@freemo @alecui You’re arguing for a left-right continuum that’s purely theoretical, not based on the current limits of the Overton window. I don’t believe this is how such terms are understood. More on that later. You seem to be defining the left as supporting government control of the economy. But right-wing, even fascist, governments have often taken direct economic control, particularly in wartime (and right-wing nations can be at war continually). Again, I don’t believe this is how such terms are understood. The UK’s anti-gun policies would be considered fringe in America. They’d be laughed at by the R’s, obviously, but even the D’s would balk at such extremes. Where is the center? The US center? The UK center? And that’s just for one issue.
(DIR) Post #AXXGmAC458gQ9pyBk0 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:15:29Z
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@TruthSandwich You’re arguing for a left-right continuum that’s purely theoretical, not based on the current limits of the Overton window. I don’t believe this is how such terms are understood. More on that later.Not purely theoretical at all, very much tangible, and very much applies accurately historically and across nations You seem to be defining the left as supporting government control of the economy.No, I said nothing about economy, nor does the control have to come from centralized governemnet.. What I said is that the left always wants to mitigate natural power dynamics from forming where power accumulates too much in a central place. In some cases that means government regulation, but even then we arent talking strictly economy. But in the case of anarchists then it isnt mitigated by government control at all, in fact the government is the very central power being avoided in that case, but its still about avoiding central power in one form or another. But right-wing, even fascist, governments have often taken direct economic control, particularly in wartime (and right-wing nations can be at war continually).Yup, which lines up with what I said, that the right is ok with power accumulating in a centralized place (in this case the government taking over complete control). Again, I don’t believe this is how such terms are understood.How the terms are “understood”… I agree.. it is how the term clearly has been used, whether it was known or not. The way I defined the terms lines up perfectly with all historic examples that have self described themselves ont he left or right, so its a good definition historically. The UK’s anti-gun policies would be considered fringe in America.So? As I already stated what is fringe is completely relative.. what is center is not. Where is the center? The US center? The UK center? And that’s just for one issue.There is only one center, the UK center and the US center are the same. Center is a point, not a range… “moderate” is a range. How big of a range moderate encompass is entirely relative… the point at which the center exists is not.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXH0lOQZXJ7aFiL9k by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:18:11Z
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@freemo @alecuiFundamentally, the disagreement here is over whether “the center” is the center of political gravity found by weighing political power in an actual state or it’s defined according to some abstract scale that applies equally to all states.
(DIR) Post #AXXHKtR4NaxcJqY4XY by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:21:47Z
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@TruthSandwichNot at all. I am saying the center has nothing to do with if any state existed at all.. it would be the same evne if humans never existed and no government ever existed. Because it is an ideological idea, like how tall something is.Its really simple… If you think a system should be in place to put power in check, you are on the left. If you think power dynamics are natural and good then you are on the right. If you think neither of these ideas have any merit then you are at the center.These things do not change based on any opinion of the state or its people, all that changes is where they are on this scale.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXHmArRhTp0BKtVvE by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:26:43Z
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@TruthSandwichAll you have to do is provide one counter example.. a government policy or party that has been self-identified as left or right and doesnt line up with the definition I provided.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXHoAnUuMLGZ006z2 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:27:06Z
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@freemo @alecui“Not at all. I am saying [exactly what you said I was saying].”You are defining the left-right continuum independently of actual people and actual countries in the actual world. I am not.Like socialists and political scientists, I am defining it as the center of political gravity, which is something that shifts and is defined issue by issue.For example, there was a time in America when same-sex marriage was so far left as to be fringe. Now it’s mainstream, although still opposed by the far right.Gravity shifted.#politics #theory #politicalscience #sociology
(DIR) Post #AXXI9vsn2b7yg3qt1M by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:31:00Z
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@TruthSandwich @alecui You are defining the left-right continuum independently of actual people and actual countries in the actual world. I am not.Wrong, and I explicitly stated as much. What i have done is looked at how every government I could find that has identified as left or right had in common and found a simple definition of the spectrum that is appropriate for every one of those examples.. It is very clear the distinction is a universal one…As I said you only have to provide a single counter example to prove me wrong, something you have yet to do. Like socialists and political scientists, I am defining it as the center of political gravity, which is something that shifts and is defined issue by issue.Nah, you dont get to speak for political scientists, and this is certainly not how they define it. For example, there was a time in America when same-sex marriage was so far left as to be fringe. Now it’s mainstream, although still opposed by the far right.Why do you keep repeating the same failed logic like you arent even listening to what I am saying.How many times have I said that what is moderate vs what is fringe is absolutely relative (and relies on the current political gravity as you put it)… what the center point is is not relative, that is fixed… how wide of a range around that is considered moderate is completely relative however. Gravity shifted.The position of the center of gravity never changed… the size of the gravitational field however did.
(DIR) Post #AXXIZwgqf4zYi7fcqe by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:35:42Z
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@TruthSandwich @alecuiThis diagram might help
(DIR) Post #AXXIkjuSWGO4G4BRRY by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:37:42Z
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@freemo @alecuiIs UHC left or right?
(DIR) Post #AXXJDiK5Uu2VjdzGjo by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:42:51Z
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@TruthSandwichSince Universal Healthcare is intending to preventing wealth from determining who can get treated and who doesnt, and wealth is a form of power dynamic, it is a quality that is left.inb4: parties in any country do not represent principles wholly on the left or the right. The GOP will have mostly right-wing political ideals, and will have some left-wing. Overall the GOP is considered ont he right because they have far more ideals that are objectvely right (as I defined earlier) than right.So while in europe many right-wing political parties will support UHC, and that is a left-wing principle, the majority of the principles of a right-wing party will be right-wing and thus overall the party is considered to lean right.There has never and will never exist a party which exclusively adopts right or left wing principles, even if overall the party clearly exists on one side of the spectrum or the other. In fact the is the very reason why the american GOP is farther right than the tories in the UK for example, because the tories adopt more left-wing principles than the GOP does, pushing it farther to the left while still being right of center overall.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXJa1EvqUfam9DBD6 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:46:58Z
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@freemo @alecui“There has never and will never exist a party which exclusively adopts right or left wing principles…” - Freemo“Hold my beer.” - RNC
(DIR) Post #AXXK4YcSJ3H2zHmCBs by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:52:27Z
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@TruthSandwichThe RNC is certainly farther right than most for sure. But they do have some left-wing principles…School choice is a central beleif of the right-wing. That is a reduction of centralized power in education allowing schools to compete for students and allowing parents to pick private schools even if they cant afford it with the same moeny fueling the public system.. So it is one example of a left-leaning principle that the GOP supports.while admittedly the GOP is very strongly right leaning, its not a purely right-wing party@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXKH0kdXQWjiDXd7g by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:54:41Z
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@freemo @alecuiThat’s because they don’t give a fuck about left or right. They care about white supremacy, and undermining the public school system is a key aspect of that, particularly with regard to religion.You could also claim that anti-choice laws aren’t right-wing because they make the government more invasive. But, again, that would be missing the point: white supremacy, again, in its misogynistic aspect.It’s almost as though these abstract ideals you speak of mean nothing in the real world.
(DIR) Post #AXXKYwtGdCA4x08DxY by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T01:57:56Z
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@TruthSandwichWe all know you hate the GOP and anything they do you will go off on… I dont blame you the GOP is shit (though i can remain a bit more objective when i talk about it I guess)… but doesnt change the fact that enabling people to choose what school they send their kid to, rather than forcing one school everyone must go to (except the rich people who can afford private schools) is very clearly a left-wing principle.They arent abstract ideas, they are very tangible and easily applies, as we just did. You just seem to be hung up on some pretty heavy preconceptions.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXLTWiwaeIQIqHVtw by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:08:12Z
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@freemo @alecuiHow is it left-wing if the goal is fully right-wing?
(DIR) Post #AXXLlcPwA1lVAo1B32 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:11:26Z
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@TruthSandwichWhat something is remains unchanged regardless of how that thing is used to acomplish a goal.Holding a door open for someone is polite. If i hold the door open for a married woman and secretly in my own head do it in the hope it will impress her and I can steal her away from her husband… my goal may not be polite, but the act of opening the door is still polite regardless.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXMDxAQbgL1dVH6J6 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:16:35Z
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@freemo @alecuiEverything the RNC does makes sense through the lens of Realpolitik, hence through an empirical theory of politics that focuses on that center of political gravity. But it makes little to no sense when you use a theoretical scale.
(DIR) Post #AXXML5Cr7EuOb1oHSK by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:17:50Z
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@TruthSandwich @alecuiYou have yet to make any compelling argument as to why the objective scale “makes little sense”.. In fact quite the opposite, every counter example you have given has been debunked and held up well given my definition and was in line with the historic notions of left and right prescribed to parties and ideals.
(DIR) Post #AXXMQEeXQBb1LGDOOO by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:18:46Z
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@freemo @alecuiAs I just demonstrated, it fails to explain why the RNC is “left” on some issues and “right” on most.Empirical political science does not struggle with this, as it sees right through the posturing and focuses on power.
(DIR) Post #AXXMZ1sYHfdSKXxmOu by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:20:22Z
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@TruthSandwichIt doesnt fail at all, that is exactly what we would expect of a party on the left side of the spectrum, it would, does, and should have mostly right-wing principles and very few left wing principles based on my definition… that is exactly the case here, the GOP is almost exclusively right-wing and i was only able to list a single left-wing principle it adopts, exactly in line with my stance as well as the reality.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXMcA4IICIcb8wtdY by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:20:58Z
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@freemo @alecuiIt falsely identifies “school choice” as leftwing.
(DIR) Post #AXXMf0B7WGKsnHUpiC by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:21:26Z
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@TruthSandwich @alecuiYou are also incorrect about “emperical political science” my own stance is based on empirical evidence, yours sounds like its just winging it and is arbitrary.
(DIR) Post #AXXMghJackV2rxGZzU by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:21:48Z
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@freemo @alecuiYou mean like calling Biden a racist?
(DIR) Post #AXXMkZti8xzt1U0oc4 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:22:27Z
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@TruthSandwichNope, it does not, the idea that only the rich can choose what school to send their kids to is a very clearly right wing stance, giving parents a choice regardless of economic status is a very clearly left-wing principle.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXMn6CZ0blnn824em by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:22:54Z
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@TruthSandwichI call all pro-segregationists racists… and yes, its justified.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXMqGHdysIFvdutmq by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:23:31Z
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@freemo @alecuiBut, of course, that’s not the point.The point is to get rid of public schools, which hurts the poor far more than the rich.Just like states’ rights has never ever been about states. It’s always been a dog whistle for white supremacy.
(DIR) Post #AXXMxPhrLTUDBEaaeW by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:24:48Z
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@freemo @alecui92% of Black voters chose Biden. Are they idiots?
(DIR) Post #AXXMzWAkHBptoT6Uj2 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:25:09Z
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@TruthSandwichYou seem to have a real hard time drawing a distinction between one isolated principle, and others… getting rid of public schools all together would be right wing… giving people school choice is left wing. If you have a combination of principles that include both than you have a mix of right wing and left wing principles… The world isnt so black and white as you want it to be with everything being all one thing or another, it is nuanced and you will just have to accept that.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXN40nKMhsfwdIESW by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:26:00Z
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@freemo @alecuiNo, they’re both the same thing. “School choice” is just a way to defund public schools. Vouchers literally take money away from private schools and give it to religious segregation academies.
(DIR) Post #AXXN5BIKoNSsneM0mm by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:26:11Z
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@TruthSandwichNope, but like most voters of any color they were lied to and tricked and sadly not educated enough on biden’s past to know they were. Thats not the same as them being idiots.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXN86y5M1POFYHPUW by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:26:43Z
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@freemo @alecuiMaybe they’re smarter than you, and took notice of who he was VP for and who his VP is now.
(DIR) Post #AXXNCHtmekrRJDG8FE by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:27:28Z
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@TruthSandwichExactly, taking power away from one centralized enttity (public schools) and allowing the power over education to be distributed and a choice… yes it will defund public schools and shrink them, but only so far as people choose not to send their kids to public school… shrinking a central power and producing a system of many choices is not the same as completely eliminating it, it just puts the power in check.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXNJN2pvDwrIPs3ns by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:28:44Z
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@TruthSandwichNope, that isnt the case.. i mean some are smarter than me, some arent. But in the case of Biden, nope, they screwed up big time sadly.This is very obvious because I talk to black voters all the time. Very very few are even aware of Bidens past at all, which makes it very obvious they made an uninformed decision and never even knew about his extremely racist past.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXNO3MMXPsdgxEkV6 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:29:37Z
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@freemo @alecuiLook at their other school policies, which are intended to purge liberals by attacking LGBTQ. The goal isn’t choice, it’s destruction.Realpolitik: they endorse a principle purely for its intended consequences, with no actual allegiance to it.For example, when there’s a federal SCOTUS ruling that’s pro-choice, they demand states’ rights. When the SCOTUS rules in their favor, they want to pass a federal law that overrides liberal states.They have no principles, just power.
(DIR) Post #AXXNUXnYHUUTph38gy by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:30:45Z
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@TruthSandwich The goal isn’t choiceNow your back on goals again.. my definition of left and right has nothing to do with goals. A principle is left or right based on what it is, not the goal the wielder intends for it.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXNXjDEIf5I6NZvZA by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:31:22Z
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@freemo @alecuiI’m going to go with the conclusion that you’re completely wrong about Biden because you’re repeating rightwing talking points: https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/commentary/bidens-history-getting-away-racist-remarks
(DIR) Post #AXXNZYyzIxQexDnAC8 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:31:42Z
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@freemo @alecuiThey have no principles, only goals.
(DIR) Post #AXXNd79YiSbZniQiDQ by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:32:14Z
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@TruthSandwichOf course you would. When you cant argue the merit itself you resort to guilt be association… common tactic of those who loose an argument.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXNfMeY3iz8S4zvJg by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:32:45Z
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@freemo @alecuiThis is a constant pattern: the left gets tricked into repeating rightwing propaganda.
(DIR) Post #AXXNg4FvwbRJgTot3g by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:32:50Z
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@TruthSandwichThats just linguistically wrong because your using a different definition of principles as word play, which is a intellectually dishonest tactic@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXNjg6nfJELx1GkvA by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:33:30Z
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@TruthSandwichwhatever you gotta tell yourself I guess.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXNkcUuZoyp2azpYW by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:33:42Z
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@freemo @alecui“States’ rights” is a stated principle, and the RNC will push it when it suits their goals. They’ll just as quickly ignore it when it opposes their goals.Like I said: no principles, just power.
(DIR) Post #AXXNopIsuFRPusNPXs by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:34:28Z
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@freemo @alecuiI showed an example of a rightwing propaganda mill spouting exactly the points you did. Doesn’t that bother you?
(DIR) Post #AXXNqWbdOVpQVQxMqe by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:34:44Z
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@TruthSandwichRepeating the intellectually dishonest tactic of word play and using a different definition of “principles” isnt going to get you anywhere. I called it out the first time you did it.For the record we dont disagree on the fact that the GOP is morally corrupt btw.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXNvYdtFb1AGmPZgG by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:35:39Z
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@TruthSandwichI have a very explicitly stated hatred for the GOP.. yes it bothers me that they are a propaganda mill.I also have a fairly explicit hatred for the democrat party.. it also bothers me that they are a propaganda mill for their agenda.I have no love for either party.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXNzUBdl5Ovbp4SWW by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:36:24Z
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@freemo @alecuiDemocratic. The word is Democratic. Using “Democrat” as an adjective is a Fox News thing.See?
(DIR) Post #AXXOJ59WXodjl6QQPQ by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:39:53Z
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@TruthSandwichA typo that is hardly relelvant.@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXOOAP0SBBxUL5jm4 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:40:50Z
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@freemo @alecuiIt’s not a typo. They do this intentionally. And you mimic them in this, just as you parrot their anti-Biden propaganda.
(DIR) Post #AXXOU6HGhbf4QuIknw by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:41:53Z
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@TruthSandwichI have never in my life even watched fox news.. Your claim is so insane because I havent watched or consumed american television in years, I havent even lived here in half a decade (only recently got back).@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXOYvkhGLrVElMyga by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:42:47Z
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@freemo @alecuiI didn’t say you got it from Fox, I’m saying it’s on Fox and it got to you. Only you can figure out the path it took, but I can definitely show that what you’re saying is Fox propaganda.
(DIR) Post #AXXOfFIvTuZFc9OKp6 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:43:54Z
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@TruthSandwichI constantly make tons and tons of typos… your reaching, and your reaching bad… I have no TV from any source, and virtually all my exposure to politics intentionally come from neutral sources (C-span and reading the full content and text of bills for the most part).@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXOkBFHzzTiTU2kdc by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:44:49Z
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@freemo @alecuiOk, so where did the inception of “Biden is a racist” happen?Speaking of racists, I think it’s time for me to block @alecui. They’ve almost certainly muted me, anyhow.
(DIR) Post #AXXOs96rp8GeAPu05w by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T02:46:14Z
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@TruthSandwichAs I have stated before Biden has been a friend of my family since before he was even a politician, including eating over and spending the night at my parent’s house.The inception came from…well… as far back as I can remember. He has always been disgustingly racist, and I didnt see much of a chance even the last time he was over for dinner (which was right before his election since he was asking my dad for money again).@alecui
(DIR) Post #AXXawkAt9sHDjJk4bQ by freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org
2023-07-10T05:01:33Z
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@freemo @TruthSandwich @alecuiIn response to this portion of the thread:“I have a very explicitly stated hatred for the GOP.. yes it bothers me that they are a propaganda mill.I also have a fairly explicit hatred for the democrat party.. it also bothers me that they are a propaganda mill for their agenda.I have no love for either party.”Dear Dr. Freemo: At least you are being honest, which I greatly admire. I am a liberal who still can be objective, still I believe that Democrats are the only viable party to keep the fascist from taking over the United States of America.Sincerely, Monica Andrews
(DIR) Post #AXXbd1dubPqS4KTlE8 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T05:09:10Z
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@freepeoplesfreepress @TruthSandwich @alecuiIf i had to pick one of the two, and coukdnt abstain, and coukdnt vote third party, then i woukd very reluctantly vote democrat as the lesser of the two evils. I do afterall lean left on the spectrum…That said i can vote third party so i am free to screw over both parties ;)
(DIR) Post #AXXbgeFZW94Afzp01g by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T05:09:51Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiVoting third party is masturbation. It’s worse than not voting at all.
(DIR) Post #AXXcDCwa3wWtXlSqES by freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org
2023-07-10T05:15:44Z
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@freemo @TruthSandwich @alecuiI myself must look at what happened when Donald J. Trump allegedly seemed to be the proximate cause of Trump Supporters storming the U.S. Capitol on Jan 6th. What allegedly seems to have been a failed coup, which should serve as a wake-up call that the GOP Republican Party has evolved into a dangerous political party.Sincerely, Monica Andrews
(DIR) Post #AXXdDXEaisrEQZbmlM by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T05:26:58Z
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@freepeoplesfreepress @TruthSandwich @alecuiYea what they did was serious. Though that same year i remeber dealing with horrifical violent mostly-left riots over the course of months. So many homes and businesses got burned to the ground, it was sad.. the sights I saw was awful.So between these two events its hard for me to support either side
(DIR) Post #AXXdHIAOgawmr2RE4e by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T05:27:41Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiTwo words: Umbrella. Man.
(DIR) Post #AXXdNPdvnmlbmOAfE8 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T05:28:45Z
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@TruthSandwich @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiThird parties have come to win in us elections for lresident 8 times in the history of the usa. Its a viable option. Moreover votibg for either primary party woukd just be morally correupt. Id rather masterbate than give ammunition to an evil.
(DIR) Post #AXXdViY3Of4MjINk48 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T05:30:17Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiMoral corruption starts with refusing to lift your finger to stop fascism.Long version: https://truth-sandwich.com/2020/08/10/the-impotence-of-being-earnest/This aged incredibly well.#politics #uspol
(DIR) Post #AXXdl28MrMzpojfdvE by freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org
2023-07-10T05:33:04Z
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@freemo @TruthSandwich @alecuiLook everyone must concerned with ultra radical left and right wing extremist groups that want to overthrow the Federal Government of the United States. A normal liberal will not be interested in attempting a coup and an old style conservative would be patriotic enough to protect the U.S. Constitution. Sincerely, Monica Andrews
(DIR) Post #AXXeYQY6sCyTjHGR9s by freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org
2023-07-10T05:41:59Z
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@freemo @TruthSandwich @alecuiDear Dr. Freemo: Third parties only are viable in parliamentary governments where political coalitions are possible and often desirable. Look at the fact that U.S. representative Kevin McCarthy could not get enough votes to become Speaker of the House, he had to make political deals to secure the U.S. House Speakership. Do you really truly believe that an elected third party Presidential Candidate will be able to successfully deal with the Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill?Sincerely, Monica Andrews
(DIR) Post #AXYYPPEG0W32SgFlEu by freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org
2023-07-10T06:12:02Z
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@freemo @TruthSandwich @alecuiDear Dr. Freemo: In order for a third party to gain political power, that third party needs to elect one third of U.S. House of Representatives and one third of the U.S. Senate and elect their U.S. President. Probably then that third party could politically pressure the Democrats and Republicans. If you have 1/3 Democrats, 1/3 Republicans and 1/3 Same Third Party Members.This would come the closest to emulating a true parliamentary system of federal government. One day this might happen, right now we have an entrenched two party system that is politically polarized. So there appears to be only two choices, 1. Reelect U.S. President Joseph Biden in an attempt to halt the GOP MAGA Republicans who for all intents and purposes allegedly seem to be politically aligned with ultra radical right wing fascist groups and organizations, or 2. Politically gamble by voting for GOP Republicans who stood silent while Donald J. Trump allegedly seemed to have incited Trump Loyalists to storm the U.S. Capitol on Jan 6th.Sincerely, Monica Andrews, Editor-in-chief, #FreePeoplesFreePress News
(DIR) Post #AXYYPPsJba5gSuzkg4 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:07:48Z
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@freepeoplesfreepressThats not how it happened in the past. Int he past when third parties have won they took over the presidency first and had little or no representation in the senate. They gained the power int he senate later.@TruthSandwich @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYYdjPdlImt78POGe by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:10:22Z
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@freepeoplesfreepressMostly true, in the USA third parties have taken over 8 times, but in each case the take over was quick (usually a single election).@TruthSandwich @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYYiDRi2ZcpQ3Vy5Y by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:11:12Z
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@TruthSandwichGood thing im lifting all my fingers to stop evil by not voting for evil parties.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYYkNVDca3LBkBfA8 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:11:36Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiAnything short of voting for Biden is evil.
(DIR) Post #AXYYmdm45uiKEX95rE by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:11:59Z
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@TruthSandwichVoting for Biden is evil.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYYpN7sRrZvT7eOoq by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:12:32Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiAllowing fascism is evil. Only voting for Biden blocks fascism.
(DIR) Post #AXYYyREiXGyqp5AnVQ by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:14:07Z
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@TruthSandwichFascism is hardly the only evil at play.. voting for Biden ensures the proliferation of many forms of evil.. Voting for Biden is evil.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYZ3rc3tbIc4mgBXc by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:15:05Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiI really don’t care what you think of Biden. We’ve established that you parrot deranged right-wing attacks on him.But the biggest idiocy is pretending that the imaginary threat of Biden exceeds the existential threat of Trump.
(DIR) Post #AXYZBJCrhZelgQRaPQ by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:16:26Z
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@TruthSandwichI never said the threat of Biden exceeded that of Trump… If you support one person who is marginally less evil than another, then you are promoting evil, period. Who of two extremely evil people is the lesser evil is irrelevant.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYZLXMhumF0UXvOls by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:18:19Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiThe lesser evil is the good. And Biden isn’t even evil, you’ve just swallowed RW poison about him.The fact that your talking points directly mirror what RW propaganda mills spout should be a hint.
(DIR) Post #AXYZT6uc9P2ElWObEe by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:19:42Z
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@TruthSandwichLOL I love how you keep insisting I “swallowed RW poison about him”… Biden has been coming to my family home to eat dinner and stay over since before he was a senator, since before I was alive. I formed my opinion about him LONG before there was any RW opinions about him to even poison me… your talking out of your ass, as usual. Good luck with that.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYZXdAa9yB9y81Izw by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:20:29Z
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@TruthSandwichThe fact that my talking points mirror RW talking points, when I’ve known him and had those opinions since before those talking points even existed… yea that should tell you something… namely that maybe those talking points are correct.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYZa5YxZ7zibkav68 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:20:58Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiI don’t care if Biden shared your bed last night. I don’t care if you can read his mind and see the darkness that hides in men’s souls.I care that he has done good things for decades and is the only thing standing between us and fascism.
(DIR) Post #AXYZbdfKG480fIJMLg by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:21:11Z
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@TruthSandwichIt is very telling that you have been so brain washed that the most fundemental aspect of your argument isnt evidence its “Well some guy on the right said it so it cant be true!”@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYZevxogM8GHiX0Ua by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:21:48Z
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@TruthSandwichThen use those points in your argument, not this absurd non-point of “well the RW says that so its wrong!”… use your adult words.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYa9HgsT0pmMB53NQ by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:27:17Z
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@TruthSandwichThe only good things he has ever done was because it got him a win in popularity. If there is one thing Biden has going for himit is he is great at lying to you and pretending like he agrees with you.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYa9rLVtv8SwLMV4i by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:27:26Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiIs this the part where you pretend that I need to spell out all the good things he’s done for decades, as if you don’t already know?
(DIR) Post #AXYaE1MUbXDZA5nvQ8 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:28:11Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiCynicism is not an argument, it’s a self-indictment.Biden believes that fascism is wrong. Do you?
(DIR) Post #AXYaHcWosOytIhLoye by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:28:46Z
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@TruthSandwichNo because then id spell out all the racist vile shit he did and show how what few good things he has done has been by accident at best, and they are far and few between int he grand scheme…That said I hardly have the time, energy, or interest, to go through a blow by blow with you.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYaL2UKoYxagNopXM by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:29:27Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiNo need: if I want to read lies about Biden, I can find the exact same ones on any RW website.
(DIR) Post #AXYaMHpFHCRGXXC7Jw by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:29:39Z
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@TruthSandwichHahaha biden IS fascism… so much so you arent even black in his mind if you dont vote for him, nevermind an american.Seems like you love fascism since you support him if thats where you wanna go.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYaOfOQckvWDDmn4K by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-07-10T16:30:07.109740Z
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@freemo @TruthSandwich @freepeoplesfreepress @alecui isn't it a staple of modern behavior to ignore whatever good things someone ever did once they are flagged as problematic
(DIR) Post #AXYaVrwCNiwf9713cu by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:31:22Z
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@icedquinn Yes but only when it is to the advantage of your political side. If it is to your disadvantage then you do like Truth is doing and ignore all the inhumane evil shit they do and only talk about the good.@alecui @freepeoplesfreepress @TruthSandwich
(DIR) Post #AXYacx9VONR3LVcNoe by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-07-10T16:32:42.110121Z
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@freemo @alecui @freepeoplesfreepress @TruthSandwich I did like how metoo was not to be questioned until it hit biden and then the entire movement fucking dropped dead and was cancelled entirely
(DIR) Post #AXYalwDKFaS12egnbM by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:34:17Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiTo remind you, 92% of Black voters chosen Biden. In contrast, 55% of whites voted for Trump.So, yeah, he’s right: if you’re Black and didn’t vote for him, you are an extreme outlier. Also, an idiot.
(DIR) Post #AXYatq1DAVuU8yn2kS by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:35:42Z
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@TruthSandwichAhh populism, one of the most abused logical fallacies ever…Yes Biden is extrodinarily good at manipulating people. That makes him more evil, not less.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYb8Jrgzrs6lVF7aK by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:38:21Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiYou appear not to understand what populism is. At all.
(DIR) Post #AXYbHeiUq9Y02eOS8W by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:40:00Z
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@TruthSandwich @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiPopulism fallacy, otherswise called ad poppulum in latin:In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for “appeal to the people”)[1] is a fallacious argument which is based on claiming a truth or affirming something is good because the majority thinks so.[2]
(DIR) Post #AXYbRaMprkElRqzqtc by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:41:50Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiArgumentum ad populum is not populism.It’s also not a fallacy to notice that a white-supremacist candidate got the majority of the white votes and a tiny minority of the Black vote.These votes indicate a hell of a lot about the candidates. For example, Sanders’ failure to get the Black vote reveals that his nominal anti-racism is not believed.
(DIR) Post #AXYbZcQc5TA69matvM by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:43:15Z
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@TruthSandwichExactly my point, the support biden has from black people is a weak argument because it can just as easily be a reflection of people believing in the fallacy of a two party system and hating Trump and in no way an indication that Biden isnt racist… at best it may be an indication that biden is at least marginally less racist than Trump, but that doesnt mean much.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYbpkkiuBQkbjh56W by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:46:13Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiThere is no fallacy. We only have two major parties, thanks to Duverger’s law. If you don’t understand this, you’re ignorant.Black voters tend to be pragmatic. They know they can’t hold out for perfection or throw their vote away in protest because they don’t have the privilege of being safe under white supremacist rule.This also motivates them to look into Biden’s past and judge for themselves what it means. They see that he worked under Obama and took Harris as his running mate. They see all the good he’s done. They see this and they respond by supporting him.
(DIR) Post #AXYc2Rxi4yRM5up46q by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:48:26Z
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@TruthSandwichA third party has become a main party 8 times in the history of the USA… regardless of any speculative principle (calling it a law is a bit of a joke), we have direct evidence the system isnt locked into two parties historically.You are completely delusional if you think most voters, black or otherwise, have looked into Bidens past… The one thing I ask every person who supports biden is about his past… Of the hundreds of people I’ve asked who support Biden I can only recall one of them who ever knew anything about his past decisions or even knew the role he plaed in segregation at all.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYcefvAd0caOLrVBp by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:55:24Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiCitation needed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_third_party_performances_in_United_States_presidential_elections
(DIR) Post #AXYdIImy3KxyEPv91M by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T17:02:31Z
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@TruthSandwich @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiSure I can list them easily enough:1796 - Switch from non- partisan to having two seperate parties take majority, the democratic-republic and federalistSwitches so far: 21828 - Another double switch with two new parties coming into replace the old two majorities, the National Republican, and the DemocraticSwitches so far: 41836 - The Whig party replaces the National Republic partySwitches so far: 51856 - The Republican party replaces the whig partySwitches so far: 61912 - The BullMoose party replaces the Republican party as a majoritySwitches so far: 71920 - The Republican party replaces the Bull Moose party again.Switches so far: 8
(DIR) Post #AXYggmSdgSmr4QmB84 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T16:37:21Z
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@icedquinn @alecui @freemo @freepeoplesfreepressBelieve all women never meant unconditionally. It meant take their claims seriously and look at the evidence.We did this with Reade and that’s why no reputable journalist would repeat her obvious lies.
(DIR) Post #AXYggnBJ0OW3Ixfqka by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-07-10T17:40:37.265486Z
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@TruthSandwich @alecui @freemo @freepeoplesfreepress you mean like when cuba gooding's accusation was widely by mainstream news when there was literally CCTV footage exonerating him from the molestation claims?no, i think you're just a tribalist.
(DIR) Post #AXYh0mNXhPUqbhvcLA by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T17:44:11Z
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@icedquinn I find it funny that tree often speaks for all people and what they meant.. talking about how all blacks are responsible smart pragmatic voters, or how all people meant something completely different than the phrase "believe all women" actually meant.Anyone with two eyes can see time and time again that simply the **accusation** of rape is more than enough for people to treat it as valid even with a complete lack of evidence. People have been vocal and made obvious this was often what was meant. We have plenty examples of this from Amber Heard to Gooding.@alecui @freepeoplesfreepress @TruthSandwich
(DIR) Post #AXYh8sW4lObNxXmWKu by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-07-10T17:45:41.982915Z
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@freemo i've seen several character assassinations using the metoo movement. believe all women really was used as a truncheon to shut up people who were advocating the reasonable doubt standard should be upheld over mob justice.
(DIR) Post #AXYhMDqYljNNsYj3a4 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T17:45:26Z
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@icedquinn @alecui @freemo @freepeoplesfreepressPlease address what I wrote. As I pointed out, the media vetted her story and found it non-credible. Then a few fake journalists pushed it anyhow.
(DIR) Post #AXYhMEWOGCpvyIISmW by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T17:48:03Z
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@TruthSandwichAmber heard, despite clear and overwhelming evidence she lied, claimed she was abused and assaulted by johnny of a sexual nature. Before any evidence was presented (which we now know doesnt exist) he lost his career and was dropped from every contract he had, including the Pirates of the Carribean which was built around his character… His life was destroyed…Turns out after the court case it was proven beyond ar easonable doubt Heard had lied and it was all unfounded.Guess what, despite the damage to Johnny already being done, Amber still has movie deals and is still filming and her career seems to be better than ever.There are thousands of cases of this happening to less famous people all the time. You’d have to be blind not to see it.@icedquinn @alecui @freepeoplesfreepress
(DIR) Post #AXYhQrHQ6CONKyV3nE by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T17:48:56Z
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@freemo @icedquinn @alecui @freepeoplesfreepressSo your argument is that Biden should have been canceled on the basis of a false accusation?
(DIR) Post #AXYhUiT2o0hTAEmDaq by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T17:49:35Z
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@TruthSandwich @icedquinn @alecui @freepeoplesfreepressI dunno what your smoking man… My response never said anything about Biden.
(DIR) Post #AXYhVZIEOwXh037pb6 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T17:49:11Z
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@icedquinn Absolutely, just recently the Amber Heard and Johnny Depp case is an example of just this. Even after the evidence proving his innocent Amber is still going strong and Johnny's career still took a huge blow.
(DIR) Post #AXYhYWdUjjHpczTteC by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T17:50:20Z
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@freemo @icedquinn @alecui @freepeoplesfreepressScroll. Up.That’s the context. @icedquinn specifically brought it up.
(DIR) Post #AXYhcHnppP0CmX6wc4 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T17:50:57Z
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@TruthSandwichSo then ask Icedqueen if thats what he meant… What I meant I said, and at no point did I say anything about biden when i did so.@icedquinn @alecui @freepeoplesfreepress
(DIR) Post #AXYhfDJexx0RjeOPqa by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-07-10T17:51:32.602840Z
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@freemo :blobcatdunno: just looks like tribalism to me. the founder of metoo basically said justice doesn't matter anymore if it would affect a democrat
(DIR) Post #AXYhjTufCXTCMrjhB2 by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-07-10T17:52:14.910608Z
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@freemo she used more indirect wording. it was some severely copish phrasing for 'accountability doesnt just have to mean cancelling' or whatever it was. but basically shotgunned her own movement to save biden.
(DIR) Post #AXYhoYfewFdSZY8f1U by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T17:53:11Z
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@icedquinn Well when it falls along political lines most things do wind up being a double standard... thats nothing new. Just look at how Biden inappropriately touched women, and that man is getting voted into office.
(DIR) Post #AXYht6m856N1VHKoG8 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T17:54:01Z
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@icedquinn That would hardly surprise me if it did happen. I'm not familiar with it... But given how Biden grabs women inappropriately and the dems generally dismiss it, the pattern is clear.
(DIR) Post #AXYjWfT387fwLbpzGK by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T18:12:24Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiSo you’ve got nothing in the last century, and even that was a special case. Got it.
(DIR) Post #AXYjhbDvFWQmN1yToW by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T18:14:20Z
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@TruthSandwichCorrect, what i showed disproved Duverger’s law by counter-example. So how long ago it happened is irrelevant to that end.As to why we havent seen a switch in the last 100 years is simple… because people bought the lie about a two-party system that was used to ensure evil remained in power, and now we have schmucks like you who want to do good but instead do evil because they bought into it (along with most americans).It will only be true for so long as you buy the lie.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYlY9tzezy4w8HMOW by freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org
2023-07-10T18:35:05Z
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@freemo @TruthSandwich @alecuiDear Dr. Freemo: I was reading the entire thread, I myself remain entirely objective concerning whether or not a third party or third parties can gain sufficient grass roots political power to influence national politics. At this particular juncture in time third parties lack adequate and sufficient political organization and economic financial strength to compete with the Democrat and Republican Parties.I am liberal, Democrats have major political infighting due ultra radical left wing extremists want to purge normal liberals such as myself.The same has occurred prior to Donald J. Trump’s rise to power within the GOP Republican Party. Republican Elites began to purge Moderate Republicans.Ultra radical left and right wing extremists are endangering our U.S. Constitutional Freedoms. The ordinary rank and file Democrat and Republican Party Members have no real say in both parties.Sincerely, Monica Andrews
(DIR) Post #AXYlowpNWXovJH7sEC by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T18:38:06Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiUh, no, you proved the law. The few times there have been shifts, the system restabilized to a pair of parties.
(DIR) Post #AXYlqKrpdAsm9mw2zY by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T18:38:20Z
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@freepeoplesfreepress @TruthSandwich @alecui At this particular juncture in time third parties lack adequate and sufficient political organization and economic financial strength to compete with the Democrat and Republican Parties.Almost every single time historically that a third party was able to take over this statement appeared to be true.The truth is Duveger’s law has some relevance, but not in the way people think. It means that until a third party has majority support it will remain at <2% in elections. Once it gainst traction you will see it flip in a single election cycle from 2% to 51+%, just as has happened every time. This sudden jump, rather than a gradual chance, is the effects of the law at play. Ya see the law doesnt mean a two party system, it just means the transitions will manifest in votes abruptly rather than gradually.This means it will always look like they “dont have the strength” right before they win, thats the nature of the dynamic. That is also why we shouldnt let it decide our vote.
(DIR) Post #AXYlyO2NjCooJ0i1DM by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T18:39:47Z
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@TruthSandwich @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiOk sure… what it proves is that third parties will and do break in, and usually do so abruptly going from <2% support to over 51% support in a single election cycle… Ergo any argument of “you shouldnt vote for the third party because it cant win” based on this “law” is nonsense…
(DIR) Post #AXYmav3jP0Orj0iKUi by freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org
2023-07-10T18:46:47Z
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@freemo @TruthSandwich @alecuiDear Dr. Freemo: Let’s consider the fact that we nearly had a political coup take place on Jan 6th; these are not normal times, U.S. Military refused to go along with Trump, or Trump just might of succeeded. We as a country are politically destabilized, we have Trump making political alliances with dictators around the world.Sincerely, Monica Andrews
(DIR) Post #AXYmnRlVcyVIdVAFSy by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T18:49:00Z
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@freepeoplesfreepressCalling what happened on the 6th a coup is a bit of a stretch… A huge stretch… Looked more like a riot to me, on instigated by police violence at the time from what I have personally seen, but thats another matter. I am sure if it had turned to Trump’s advantage he would have leveraged it and turned it into a coup atleast.But if we just want to agree Trump is evil and a threat as a president and doesnt care for democracy as long as he is in power.. on that we agree.@TruthSandwich @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYmxjX2QW16dNIhUG by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T18:50:54Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecui1/6 was a failed autogolpe.
(DIR) Post #AXYn85v036eIxbRty4 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T18:52:45Z
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@TruthSandwichNah, I dont see it as an orchastrated and intentional coup intended by Trump… though it was on the brink of becoming one, and he would have likely leveraged it and turned it into one if it had.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYnYt2Y2Qckq0ksq0 by TruthSandwich@qoto.org
2023-07-10T18:57:37Z
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@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @alecuiAnd, with that, I’m going to politely exit this discussion.
(DIR) Post #AXYnkZXmLnnHqWw328 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T18:59:41Z
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@TruthSandwichHas been a pleasure, enjoy your day.@freepeoplesfreepress @alecui
(DIR) Post #AXYnmVCfSYD0xnysmu by freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org
2023-07-10T19:00:05Z
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@freemo @TruthSandwich @alecuiDear Dr. Freemo: I totally disagree, a reasonable person who has sufficient intelligence would have known that claiming that the Democrats had rigged election results would of been the spark to ignite open rebellion. Trump allegedly seemed to have urged Trump Loyalists to storm the U.S. Capitol on Jan 6th.Sincerely, Monica Andrews
(DIR) Post #AXYo5pClJo7CV1EsG8 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-10T19:03:33Z
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@freepeoplesfreepressI dont think Trump claiming a miscount was anymore equivalent to inciting a coup than when past presidents have insisted a miscount occurred. I think that logic is far too simplistic.Now it is fair to say his claims were harmful and reckless. Nothing wrong with holding him accountable for the recklessness of his words. But to go so far as to say it was an orchastrated attempt at creating a coup… now thats hyperbolic in my eyes. Its close, but not quite there.@TruthSandwich @alecui