Post AXRPwHXTMPjeTQ7hT6 by tek@freeradical.zone
(DIR) More posts by tek@freeradical.zone
(DIR) Post #AXQhGt9whaan0QZRaK by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-06T21:09:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Ubuntu 23.10’s New Software App Will Demote DEBs (Apparently) https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/07/ubuntu-23-10-new-app-store-deb-supportSubheading: I Will Demote Ubuntu 23.10SRS, WTF. Who’s asking for this?
(DIR) Post #AXQhdtMK7rnWHlKSrA by mensrea@freeradical.zone
2023-07-06T21:13:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek as long as they're not doing it to server yet i'm ok
(DIR) Post #AXQizedvcWTAyAVLlY by 4bz@freeradical.zone
2023-07-06T21:28:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek I see many people not caring, and others waiting to debian 🤪Me? I'll probably still be on Ubuntu just cause I've always been(since 7.10). Haven't been a big fan of snaps but 🤷♂️ seems like everything I need is either a snap, or I'm running it in podmanThough I've seen good arguments for flatpak 🤔
(DIR) Post #AXQk1q9jszARD4zRGy by lucas@fitt.au
2023-07-06T21:40:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek Different people like different things. For example: some people like to glue their heads to a desk.Are we allowed to take the title "Based on Debian" away from Ubuntu yet?
(DIR) Post #AXQpVeLCsUZr1aO57Q by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-06T22:41:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@4bz On a hugely beefy desktop, where you don’t care that none of the apps can share libraries, *maybe*. On a server, no way. At least, not on the ones I maintain.
(DIR) Post #AXQpgM7gx6IthxAfEu by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-06T22:43:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lucas “Ubuntu is an ancient african word, meaning 'I can't configure Debian.'"If that plan hits, I’d say so. It’s “Based on Debian” the same way a dry martini is based on vermouth.
(DIR) Post #AXQrlvTl7w1WicHDOa by GeekFurious@freeradical.zone
2023-07-06T23:07:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek lolwhut
(DIR) Post #AXQsXfbZRv3JO0hFWS by 4bz@freeradical.zone
2023-07-06T23:15:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek yeah I can see that. The "home server" I'm using is just Ubuntu server and podman. No snaps, with cockpit which I think is python installed. So my use case won't be affected. How much work would it be to switch to debian for ya?
(DIR) Post #AXQsq5y4AhbSMU0L8S by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-06T23:19:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@GeekFurious That was my reaction.
(DIR) Post #AXQswE4wvatlFs9Cca by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-06T23:20:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@4bz Not an awful lot. Ubuntu was a polished version of Debian for a long time, but Debian doesn’t need much polishing these days.
(DIR) Post #AXQsxy1pZcZk3TWEkq by 4bz@freeradical.zone
2023-07-06T23:17:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek though..... Does this also mess with installing via apt? Cause that would be a fuck
(DIR) Post #AXQsxzBnG48fefBhvE by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-06T23:20:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@4bz I’m not 100% on that.
(DIR) Post #AXQxs5UTPtnXEOvqd6 by deutrino@mstdn.io
2023-07-07T00:15:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek I made the mistake of trying latest Ubuntu Server out bc the Pleroma instance I was messing with needed Elixir newer than what was on Debian .... yeah anyway, that install lasted all of about 20 minutes. never again.
(DIR) Post #AXQykfVthTeOalclfM by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-07T00:25:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deutrino Ouch. What’d you run into with it?
(DIR) Post #AXQyqUo8Pvjr7rvviC by newt@stereophonic.space
2023-07-07T00:25:57.135697Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek I do. Ubuntu and Debian are shit and I want them to die.
(DIR) Post #AXQzARWWKxeWjSCpUm by mar77i@gleasonator.com
2023-07-07T00:29:58.550078Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek More snapd sandbox universally non-managed packages?
(DIR) Post #AXR0Ejcf5Sefygglg8 by trisweb@m.trisweb.com
2023-07-07T00:41:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek I wonder how much it really matters. Ubuntu can diverge from Debian all it wants; Debian is ultra mature and we have alternative user friendly distros like Pop!_OS that are likely not going the Snap route (lots of strong principles clearly stated around that). Apt isn’t going anywhere and flatpak has tons of support… choices are good, and this just means a ton of us won’t choose Ubuntu.
(DIR) Post #AXR15I785ssC0e06Ua by woozle@toot.cat
2023-07-07T00:51:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek @4bz Are they also going to make snaps work properly? Because all too often, apps installed that way have annoying/weird limitations.
(DIR) Post #AXR1GoYnndFrpERHkm by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-07T00:53:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@trisweb I agree. Apparently Canonical seems to think their customers want it, and that’s fine. It’s just not at all for me.
(DIR) Post #AXR27NbekCyjZpq5AG by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-07T01:03:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@woozle @4bz I’ve luckily avoid that so far. What problems have you dealt with?
(DIR) Post #AXR2ld7UU7vdH4vEg4 by woozle@toot.cat
2023-07-07T01:10:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek @4bz I haven't been very rigorous about checking into this, but I seem to recall running into at least these two problems on occasion:(1) Apps are unable to access files on mounted drives, or can't see bookmarks/shortcuts that most file-open dialogs can see.(2) File-open/save dialogs have other missing features, e.g. no image preview, no ability to see hidden files... things like that.Some of those may have been with flatpaks rather than snaps, too -- but that definitely makes me suspicious of installing things any other way. (Are snaps automatically upgraded through the usual automated system updater? Where would one see this happening?)
(DIR) Post #AXR4cFMPeU7qt8YUUq by deutrino@mstdn.io
2023-07-07T01:30:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek I realized that it was installing a bunch of Snaps, poked around exactly long enough to determine that's something I don't want to deal with, and noped out. I'm sure it probably works fine, I'm just straight up not willing to devote any brain bandwidth to learning more Canonical shit.
(DIR) Post #AXRN0J0lWo0QKu3H9c by johns@freeradical.zone
2023-07-07T04:57:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek @4bz I think someone else in the thread already said this, but there are definitely snaps on Ubuntu server since 18.04. Like...try installing google-cloud-sdk on 18.04 through apt and tell me you don't end up with a snap.It feels insidious. Like I lost control of my server.
(DIR) Post #AXRPwHXTMPjeTQ7hT6 by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-07T05:29:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@johns @4bz That would make me toss a server out the window. It’d be the same if “apt-get install nginx” installed a Docker container. What, no. That’s not what I asked for.
(DIR) Post #AXRZP8y7CdNRsXQF04 by paoloredaelli@mastodon.uno
2023-07-07T07:15:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tekBye bye Ubuntu 😥😭 you started as a "easily usable Debian version" and now you're almost rejecting your own roots. I fear it won't end up good@onepict
(DIR) Post #AXSG58MU2u6SEXWdTE by onepict@chaos.social
2023-07-07T07:29:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@paoloredaelli @tek might be time for me to investigate debian more.
(DIR) Post #AXSG59CEwTVGp3jy8u by onepict@chaos.social
2023-07-07T15:09:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@paoloredaelli @tek I'm kinda fed up with the constant Firefox updates via despite me disabling the snap for it.I mainly use kubuntu to KDE on top of debian would work. Although lightweight KDE without office would be even better as I use libre office (rarely) so it would be nice to customise a bit more.
(DIR) Post #AXSG59noglYqhbJyiG by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-07T15:14:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@onepict @paoloredaelli That would bug me so much. I don’t want a single byte of the OS to change unless it’s to track new updates so it can tell me about them (but *not* automatically install).Imagine a server where a necessary daemon randomly updates itself. Or a fleet of company desktops that changes software out from under trained employees. That would drive me to drink.
(DIR) Post #AXSGNKR5tO1qtUMFGK by thegibson@hackers.town
2023-07-07T15:17:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek @onepict @paoloredaelli Debian is the path forward now.
(DIR) Post #AXSGYdfshjNZkLfS8O by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-07T15:19:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TheGibson @onepict @paoloredaelli Same as it always ways.Debian is always there waiting for us to see the light, and then welcomes us back.
(DIR) Post #AXSH2ZHFcMTonQPzQ8 by mwl@io.mwl.io
2023-07-07T15:21:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thegibson @tek @onepict @paoloredaelli Debian is the only remaining "reference Linux" in my books, fwiw.
(DIR) Post #AXSH2ZzYxbvR0r9NUO by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-07T15:24:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mwl @TheGibson @onepict @paoloredaelli Not even Arch?
(DIR) Post #AXSHULEHRPHnKsGvrc by mwl@io.mwl.io
2023-07-07T15:29:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek @thegibson @onepict @paoloredaelli I build BSDs from source. Arch is inadequate. :flan_greybeard:
(DIR) Post #AXSMm1qKkz8YC4KBkG by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-07T16:29:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mwl @TheGibson @onepict @paoloredaelli LOL, *of course* you do. You know, I see your name like twice a week in other venues, and my mental reaction is usually like “oh yeah, my Mastodon friend who I’ve literally not once talked about BSDs with.”
(DIR) Post #AXSN2PY2OGBuLXZvHc by mwl@io.mwl.io
2023-07-07T16:30:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tek @thegibson @onepict @paoloredaelli Well, operating systems *are* kind of boring.
(DIR) Post #AXSPVtgZcNGA7gl6jw by tek@freeradical.zone
2023-07-07T16:59:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mwl @TheGibson @onepict @paoloredaelli So true. I learned most of what I know out of sheer grudge and stubbornness, not because I set out to.
(DIR) Post #AXSWGy3dmPlF1BNOts by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-07-07T18:15:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mwl @TheGibson @tek @onepict @paoloredaelliDon't make me say it.