Post AXPoGVblAU4FBs2yUS by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
(DIR) More posts by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
(DIR) Post #AXPn9mW5nuireNcma8 by ThatCrazyDude@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T10:40:42Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
Please don't get me wrong, the believing folk. I mean no insult or anything, I'm just trying to understand....If you have an omniscient God who knows tye future and it's all "His plan", how do you reconcile it with the concept of free will, where you're rewarded for good choices and punished for the bad ones? I mean, if God knows what you'll do in the future, how can you possibly do anything else that God knows you'll do, and thus you have no free will whatsoever?...
(DIR) Post #AXPnJyM0eEBFG7lebo by nomadbynature@101010.pl
2023-07-06T10:42:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude i guess free will is different from god's knowing, it's the question of perspective
(DIR) Post #AXPnSYwwTBpP4j8f2G by Cbrooklyn112@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T10:44:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude its a good read on how and why God does with regards to the Bible. It clarified the "why" for me.
(DIR) Post #AXPnwgsbYCI8MDTZcO by Jagahati@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T10:49:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude The answer is, we don’t know. God graciously gives us free will, even though many people use this free will against his wishes or in direct opposition to him. I think this is like being a father, you want your children to be smart and capable, even if they dislike you, so you don’t go get them a lobotomy for talking back. My own idea is that God knows all and sees all possible futures simultaneously, and through knowing this and our nature me knows us.
(DIR) Post #AXPo3gWdGaahHkX9cm by ThatCrazyDude@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T10:50:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nomadbynature well, the way i see it, those two are kinda mutually exclusive. I mean, say you have an omniscient god who knows that a week from today you'll murder your neighbor, how can you possibly not murder your neighbor a week from today? If God already knows it will happen, what choice do you really have in the matter...
(DIR) Post #AXPo6nTnro0Nirh7Vg by Cryochasm@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T10:51:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude all choices exist simultaneously in multiple universes and when you stand outside time and space you can see all outcomes, free will is the ability to choose which universe you want to live in. The only thing that punishes you for your choices is yourself.
(DIR) Post #AXPoGVblAU4FBs2yUS by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T10:53:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude I don't even understand this argument.I know you're going to go to sleep at some point. Does my foreknowledge rob you of your choice on when and where you go to sleep? How does my knowledge of this future event prevent you from exercising your free will?Extrapolate that out. If I knew every choice you'd ever make, you're still the one making those choices, whether you knew I knew or not.
(DIR) Post #AXPoIPf2FanjKCUFyi by Sabex@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T10:53:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude good question. For me, I believe you have a Wyrd, or Dóm in Old English. Kinda means "fate" or "honour".It's built up by your ancestors, layer by layer, but your dóm is still yours. Even the gods themselves have a dóm.There's no cosmic punishment for your actions, no heaven or hell, just the consequences.
(DIR) Post #AXPoIWvFFivVqV7niS by GluedToTheScreen@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T10:53:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude I think it's all about LEARNING...... and that usually involves mistakes. And the freedom to make them.As a parent, I might know exactly what one of my kids is going to do... and let them do it... even though it is "wrong". So they will learn.I figure we all have a "destination" in mind but there are many paths to get there.Do you know the way?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqWt49o7R-k
(DIR) Post #AXPoKK9bhDMwpBhL0q by Jagahati@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T10:53:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude Knowing us, and knowing our minds he knows our choices, but also allows us to make them. Just like you can see the wheels turning when your children are about to do something, but you let them do it even though you know with certainty what they will do. God is much more superior to our intellect than we are to our children, but we know our children and we can predict their choices, why could he not do the same?
(DIR) Post #AXPoMxczu4jLpXhbxA by nomadbynature@101010.pl
2023-07-06T10:54:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude hm, i do see your point, but i think you take god's perspective. You don't know, you're gonna commit any crime, so you feel like you have a choice...
(DIR) Post #AXPox9xpW2jwVyhvyC by Eiregoat@nicecrew.digital
2023-07-06T11:00:48.971616Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
The ancient european belief is that you have a set fate. The big stuff is predecided (by the weavers according to your karma). You can't change this fate because it's been determined by your actions in previous lifetimes, just like you can't jump off a cliff and decide to reverse course halfway down. That said, you can't decide how you meet your fate and what kind of person you are while you deal with it. This in turn affects your fate in future lifetimes and ultimately allows you to break the karmic cycle and become a god or even ascend from the material universe and return to the supreme being.
(DIR) Post #AXPp4Mgwappg13FGD2 by NoBeret@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T10:52:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude yes.
(DIR) Post #AXPp4NLMAa9u2O9XCS by Sophistifunk@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T11:02:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@NoBeret @ThatCrazyDude just because the universe is deterministic AND/OR God knows what you’re going to do, doesn’t mean you are any less the machine deciding to do it, or responsible for your actions. So *for any meaningful definition*, we have free will. Sam Harris can’t see it either.
(DIR) Post #AXPpJBX8MT2Tkkiu0W by Jagahati@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T11:04:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude Another example would be that of cats and dogs. We may not know exactly what our cat or dog will do, but we know it’s nature, we l ow what it’s likely to do and we know for sure that they won’t do things contrary to thier nature. We are quite limited in how much we understand cats and dogs, we didn’t design them and watch them for thousands upon thaousands of years. How much more does God know us? The omnipotent omniscient God who says he knows us while in the womb?
(DIR) Post #AXPpNQ2ONRibtZMZ6W by dew_the_dew@nicecrew.digital
2023-07-06T11:05:34.705641Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
ends are fixed rough hew them as we may
(DIR) Post #AXPpUgeYzzdNSGgP4q by philcolbourn@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T11:06:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude God knows, but i don't know what I'll do... best for me to choose his way as much i can... why would i choose hell!?if you say it doesn't matter - that I'll end up wherever and i can't change that - then from my position of ignorance, why wouldn't i try to keep on his good side so to speak?
(DIR) Post #AXPpWQXBtpuO2g42a0 by Krez@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T11:07:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude you've touched the single biggest question in Christianity. The only answer we have is Faith.
(DIR) Post #AXPpZQCNbVmNrzl2xs by ThatCrazyDude@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T11:07:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Eiregoat in Norse mythology, your faith/destiny was predetermined at the beginning of time, and frankly, that makes way more logical sense to me than the concept of omniscient God combined with the concept of free will. Just saying
(DIR) Post #AXPpfVO7DuAphZ9F68 by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T11:08:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ThatCrazyDude I think those are two questions.The plan for my life and for the world is there but we are free to follow it or not. If we don’t everything will take longer and be harder. The omniscience is because God is not grounded in time as we are. Our actions are based on the past and influence the future, so free will exists within that paradigma.Is there a professional theologian who can take over from here?
(DIR) Post #AXPqWP8FDIOfeAwsjo by philcolbourn@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T11:18:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sabex @ThatCrazyDude Pinocchio tells Geppetto that he is wrong.
(DIR) Post #AXPqr5iObH3ZVXir4a by SKracket@nicecrew.digital
2023-07-06T11:22:08.999700Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I think Christianity mistakenly imported omniscience from Greek philosophy out of a desire to have the "perfect" God. And then had to make up the time paradox to solve the contradiction you've brought up. You can follow Christ without that belief.
(DIR) Post #AXPs774zOYBqKKUhKi by Sabex@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T11:36:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@philcolbourn @ThatCrazyDude 😂
(DIR) Post #AXQiqEdivlIriPuwMq by cook@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T21:27:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sabex @philcolbourn @ThatCrazyDude my thoughts. Firstly free will is always in a sandbox, its limited (physical laws, other people's free will, our brains primal urges or self control). So free will is not you can do whatever you want to start with.Then I wonder if God made us then he probably understands how we would think or act. Like a computer programmer predicting the outcome of running code.
(DIR) Post #AXQq9nrWtgLw8beXYm by cook@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T21:39:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sabex Then I wonder why should God be limited by time? He probably knows what we will do as if we were characters in a book, he can skip ahead pages.So if we have free will it would have had to be programmed in a way that we have more than one predetermined choice. Looking at AI/machine learning I guess its possible to program something to make its own choices.
(DIR) Post #AXQq9pGjfS6qV4SBUG by philcolbourn@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T22:49:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cook @Sabex computers and therefore any software running a computer is deterministic: same input - same outputif not so, we would say it's broken; hit by a cosmic ray; read error; latched up; zapped...so this concept could be extended to anything physical - meaning that free will is not of this existence; not in time and not in space.
(DIR) Post #AXQr9QCAzSe4gqgy5g by cook@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T23:00:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@philcolbourn @Sabex yeah I try to wrap my mind around that a lot. Put the creator/God question aside its still the same difficult concept. Are we deterministic biological computers? I 'feel' like I have free will, when I take an unsophisticated look at AI/machine learning it 'seems' that it can make its own choices.I think an honest answer is I don't know, my mind does not understand minds completely. Maybe we will understand better as our collective understanding continues to progress.
(DIR) Post #AXQtWEZGaTMfCFUvku by philcolbourn@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T23:26:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cook @Sabex good news is we can be sure about computers and so-called AI - we can test them and we know that with same input they give same output - no choice there.
(DIR) Post #AXQtyzleh1hZh00V6m by cook@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-06T23:31:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@philcolbourn @Sabex no way to perfectly test that with humans though
(DIR) Post #AXR8dl87Q2h9WeqVzU by Sabex@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-07T02:16:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cook @philcolbourn we're not deterministic machines. We're a product of ourselves, our environment and every ancestor that came before us. Each one of us is unique. Nobody is quite the same as anybody else.That predisposes us to certain outcomes.
(DIR) Post #AXRAQ5ZEpub2lW8ktM by philcolbourn@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-07T02:36:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cook @Sabex not at all.
(DIR) Post #AXRAnhGOqhPWL2aNma by philcolbourn@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-07T02:40:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sabex @cook are you talking about our DNA and our mitochondria?i agree this is what we are a product of and may predispose is to some physical outcomes - but it's that what we are discussing? did my ancestors and DNA make me code a lisp interpreter in bash?
(DIR) Post #AXRBpynqhyz5Glsrg0 by Sabex@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-07T02:51:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@philcolbourn @cook if you want to use a CS allegory, then you are the latest commit on a codebase 200,000 years old.
(DIR) Post #AXSo90R0rBbdFSf60G by philcolbourn@noagendasocial.com
2023-07-07T21:35:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sabex @cook ah... is this code base getting better?https://youtu.be/WFCvkkDSfIU