Post AXJToK1vSPeb8roBea by vmstan@vmst.io
(DIR) More posts by vmstan@vmst.io
(DIR) Post #AXHFBgTOIGmZmOPuqG by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-07-02T07:42:21Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
So I asked RMS what he thought about the whole REHL story, since he's one of the co-authors of the GPL, and his answer was that he's not reached a conclusion yet and that "it's complicated". #rhel #gpl #distribution #change @thelinuxEXP
(DIR) Post #AXHFa4vh15pEa1HrsG by metalpoetnl@metalhead.club
2023-07-02T07:46:43Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP interesting, every question I've ever asked him, or seen him asked, he was always very definitive very quickly. This is actually an unprecedented attempt to subvert the GPL. So much so even he doesn't have a ready answer.
(DIR) Post #AXHGUBvICZfMUErAky by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-07-02T07:56:55Z
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@metalpoetnl @thelinuxEXP Yeah, he usually has a clear idea quickly of where he should stand on things. This shows that this is not a simple matter, as per my understanding, it's not a very clear violation of the GPL per se - otherwise he would already have an opinion on that.
(DIR) Post #AXHIoffPWZeIR4JygS by metalpoetnl@metalhead.club
2023-07-02T08:22:59Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP most people agree that ONLY making code available to binary recipients is compliant, shitty but compliant.But the GPL also states you must provide it under the same terms, so that means with the right to redistribute. Their TOS however says you will lose access if you redistribute.So if I buy RHEL and redistribute one package, I lose access to the source for the rest ? I think that's almost certainly a violation and I fully anticipate a lawsuit over that.
(DIR) Post #AXHJqa1NaNNBSX4SzQ by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-07-02T08:34:33Z
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@metalpoetnl @thelinuxEXP from what RHEL says, you lose your access to the FUTURE sources, not the current ones you have. Which is technically not a violation of the GPL, since the GPL applies to the software you are currently using, not the one you will be getting later.But yeah, this restriction of future availability is something new.
(DIR) Post #AXHMfp6LTg8cuFxLfc by metalpoetnl@metalhead.club
2023-07-02T09:06:13Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP okay, that detail may push it into fully compliant. But so was TiVo at the start. A key change in GPLv3 was made to prevent what they did being done again.It may actually end up that GPLv4 ends up having a clause to specifically prohibit (some off) what RH is doing here.I wouldn't speculate about what form such may take, and I guess RMS is still pondering too: and probably talking to Moglen about it.
(DIR) Post #AXHNBlzQa8gEWSxIQ4 by metalpoetnl@metalhead.club
2023-07-02T09:09:23Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP it's been almost as long since GPLv3 as it was between GPL2 and GPL3.And something else changed: most projects that adopted GPL3 added the "or later" clause, I did in all mine for example, so upgrade adoption will be a lot smoother next time. This was specifically done to prevent another painful and fractured license upgrade cycle.Most projects will automatically change licence if a v4 comes out.
(DIR) Post #AXHNBmZaPhbUKbsAmO by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-07-02T09:12:00Z
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@metalpoetnl @thelinuxEXP Great point. But it may take a while to get everyone onboard with the content of an eventual gpl v4
(DIR) Post #AXHNlJfnL8YP7oijoG by metalpoetnl@metalhead.club
2023-07-02T09:18:23Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP it took a couple of years with GPLv3, but as I said, once published: most projects will automatically update. You cannot retroactively change a license, but RHEL could overnight find tens of thousands of projects they cannot get a security patch for !
(DIR) Post #AXHNsZDJxT9xLorLu4 by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-07-02T09:19:44Z
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@metalpoetnl @thelinuxEXP I understand what you mean by the automatic upgrade with the "or later" statement - I was referring that whoever would work on wording the actual GPL4 license would probably need to network it with quite a few people before rolling it out - don't you think?
(DIR) Post #AXHOAgCQiyiKEG4zvU by metalpoetnl@metalhead.club
2023-07-02T09:22:59Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP indeed. I would not expect to see one for at least a few years, just as it took several years to finalise the writing of version 3. There are a lot more stakeholders than when 2 was written.
(DIR) Post #AXJ82UDGCFaRmnSWEi by vik@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-07-03T05:31:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP If RMS reckons it's complicated, it's 𝙧𝙚𝙖𝙡𝙡𝙮 complicated.
(DIR) Post #AXJ9ryUZTk6OPzfh3o by raptor85@mastodon.gamedev.place
2023-07-03T05:52:10Z
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@boilingsteam @metalpoetnl @thelinuxEXP this whole situation is essentially tivioization 2.0, an external workaround to get around complying as intended. The way they're doing it is questionable (personally I think it's a clear violation but legally the wording MIGHT have left it too open for interpretation) but could honestly go either way if brought in front of a judge depending on their interpretation of section 7. Needs to be handled quickly though, who knows who else will abuse this
(DIR) Post #AXJToK1vSPeb8roBea by vmstan@vmst.io
2023-07-03T05:01:52Z
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@metalpoetnl @boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP I was just thinking, “he doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who would think anything is complicated”
(DIR) Post #AXJToL0Xp28wAsAb8i by metalpoetnl@metalhead.club
2023-07-03T05:20:05Z
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@vmstan @boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP I've met him a few times at conferences and such, and once got to take him on a multihour nature tour to take photos, so I got to ask him plenty of questions in between. He is definitely not a person who struggles with questions of ethics, he can generally instantly draw a line from basic principle to specific situation and say exactly what be believes the right thing to do is.
(DIR) Post #AXJToLcpWglg5c5Aoa by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-07-03T09:35:37Z
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@metalpoetnl @vmstan @thelinuxEXP yeah never met him irl but also got the same impression from what I read and watched from him. He tends to be very very very consistent about staying true to first principles. probably 100x more than regular people.