Post AXJ3APYctDEXtSPcno by FinchHaven@hachyderm.io
(DIR) More posts by FinchHaven@hachyderm.io
(DIR) Post #AXJ3AOpbabDldpLfd2 by ophiocephalic@kolektiva.social
2023-07-02T23:06:56Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
No, Mark Zuckerberg won't meet you in the lobby Chris Trottier.Recently one of the fediverse's most ardent proponents of collaboration with Meta produced a long thread in which he details his argument for embracing the P92 gambit with open arms. This post is a response.If you're wondering why he is not tagged or addressed directly in his thread, that's because Chris is want to block anyone who offers up even the most polite of substantive counterpoints. We'll just toodle along over here thanks. The intent is not actually to debate him, but to provide food for thought to those who might have been persuaded by his relentless advocacy to federate.The original thread is here: https://atomicpoet.org/notice/AX9zOBSSW6gg06h9t2Trottier seems to believe that ActivityPub possesses extraordinary powers: "ActivityPub means that whatever of Meta’s userbase that’s exposed to federation will diversify into other platforms […] This diversification reduces the dependence of users on a single platform, giving them more choices and potentially drawing them away from Meta."But he never acknowledges that Meta platforms comprise an algorithmically-governed censorship regime which repress information of many kinds - for example, the #joinpixelfed hashtag, which was banned on Instagram along with the Pixelfed account itself. Why would this entity allow pied pipers of the fediverse to frolic freely on P92 and evangelize escape from its enclosure?For that matter, why does he think that would work at all? The userbase of Instagram will be prompted to join Threads. That means something of the existing network effect of that longstanding service will be transplanted in; and rest assured, there will be no account migration functionality provided. In fact, the number of teen-dream travel-snap influencers who will, upon exposure to a single post by Chris Trottier on the magic of W3C protocol development, leap to wrench themselves away from the highly addictive and even financially-incentivized dependency on their established social graph and plunge themselves into the X11-Wayland religious war waged among the beloved catgirls of the fediverse is statistically very close to zero.There is also an unsettling absence of agency in Chris's characterization of the lost souls of Meta, as if they're just sheep waiting for the good shepherds of decentralization to lead them to greener pastures. Instagram account holders are free to sign up for a fediverse account right now, and many have already done so - and by the way, the reverse flow is also quite possible for anyone here who wishes to connect to friends and family on Meta networks.To open this "revelatory" "Pandora's Box" (his words) of the ActivityPub Rapture, Trottier proposes, with great bloviation, something called "lobby servers". As he describes: "Lobby servers can bridge communities. They act as intermediaries that connect different social media platforms, including Meta-owned ones, with non-Meta platforms. […] By federating with Meta, lobby servers can pull content from Meta’s network and redistribute it to other federated platforms. This syndication allows users on non-Meta platforms to access and engage with Meta users’ content, thereby exposing them to different perspectives and encouraging cross-platform interactions…" The flowery language continues on, but he is not actually proposing some novel new technical development. There is nothing described which is not already part and parcel of ActivityPub federation. The "lobby server" is simply a rebrand of "an instance federating with Meta".This Hotel California doublespeak is indicative of the most problematic aspects of the communications of pro-Meta luminaries. In a ploy more typical of the contemporary reactionary right, the values and intentions of the opposing fediverse opinions on Meta are inverted. Trottier's post begins: "Federation with Meta actually hurts Meta."He continues, referencing the FediPact community: "… it’s not everyone’s objective to fight Meta, and there should be spaces where fighting Meta isn’t top of mind. Not everyone wants to be part and parcel of a fight, and that’s okay." So, in this new upside-down reality, the anticapitalists trying to save at least part of the fediverse from colonization by one of the most destructive corporations in the world "don't want to fight Meta"; the true revolutionaries are those eager to collaborate with that corporation.The Orwellian trolling degenerates from there. He claims that turning away from P92 - a single vertical silo which may comprise tens or even hundreds of millions of users - will paradoxically harm decentralization, because all those little servers federated with each other somehow result in "fragmentation" instead. And the anarchists and marginalized communities in the FediPact? They're actually pro-police authoritarians! "To enforce total defederation will require whitelisting, and policing of that whitelist." The term "whitelist" is repeated over and over in this paragraph, which is a subtle dig in the direction of a general and very nasty propensity among pro-Zuck advocates to associate the FediPact with the "HOA" and the *absence* of diversity. On the whole, the most visible proponents for Meta collaboration have been big-instance admins who have done neither themselves or their cause any good over the last couple of weeks. Chris Trottier is something of an exception. We have repeatedly noted people explaining that they were on the fence over the Meta issue, until convinced by Trottier's arguments. He may fancy himself as fighting Meta, but by relentlessly arguing in favor of federating with them, he is actually serving as their most useful and effective asset in the fediverse.#DefederateMeta #FediblockMeta #FediPact #Meta #P92 #Threads
(DIR) Post #AXJ3APYctDEXtSPcno by FinchHaven@hachyderm.io
2023-07-03T01:33:05Z
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@ophiocephalic YeahChrisOh, ChrisHe first blocked me when he spun up that Friendica Group and I told him it was basically a reply-spam-botThen he did Calckey with that kidBlocked me thereThen he went off with the Lobby Server thing and I asked him at what OSI networking level he saw that operating at -- Level 3, 4, or 5And he blocked me againHe's a tad tetchy, is our Chris
(DIR) Post #AXJ3AQMFugvsNNdG9w by ophiocephalic@kolektiva.social
2023-07-03T01:35:42Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@FinchHaven Yes, he blocked me after a mild counterpoint was offered. It's not a discourse in good faith if one person is doing all the talking, everyone else is listening and anyone who shows up with a different pov gets blocked
(DIR) Post #AXJ5jk42pzhTXP5CBU by twizzay@thisis.mylegendary.quest
2023-07-03T05:05:52.427679Z
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@ophiocephalic Chris is just a guy to me. I don’t consider him an authority on facebook or federation. I dont agree with everything he says, nor do I disagree with everything he says. I think hes a decent guy. But just a guy.In regard to Meta, I heartily disagree with Chris. This is all classic EEE to me. Plain and simple. I will be defederating all meta domains. Ill defederate any proprietary organization that shows up here. And Im sure more will come. My concept of the Fediverse is an internet built on freedom and transparency. I think its a plausible reality.Any large corporation is welcome to join. But, I wont trust them unless they are fully transparent with their software and unless they respect users as people and not profit. If I dont trust them, I wont federate. Thats how it works with my followers; Its how it will work with my instance. Maybe we cant lock them out. But we don't need to support them coming in.
(DIR) Post #AXJ6977eFGEQI5rmgi by ophiocephalic@kolektiva.social
2023-07-03T05:09:53Z
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@twizzay Good to hear! I think that there's a silver lining beyond the cloud of this crisis, a fediverse pointed back in the direction of its natural state. Glad you'll be part of the FediPact
(DIR) Post #AXJ6vyRvHPEDa7eFJw by twizzay@thisis.mylegendary.quest
2023-07-03T05:19:16.951149Z
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@ophiocephalic As long as Fedipact fits my position you can consider me a member!I can see a world on fedi with bubbles that intermingle with the big tech instances. I will be apart of the bubble that doesnt. Whatever happens to the rest of the fediverse which intermingles with big tech, I will do my best to be independent of it. I think that goal is possible as long as ActivityPub remains FOSS. :activitypub:
(DIR) Post #AXJ8RfmKKi9itas47E by ophiocephalic@kolektiva.social
2023-07-03T05:26:22Z
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@twizzay I completely agree with your "bubble" graph. The big Masto instances are "going Meta". But those instances have become a problem of their own to the fediverse. There's an opportunity here. By default, Pixelfed limits instances to a 1000 user max. It's a defacto statement of ethos about keeping things small and highly decentralzied. In masto-land we haven't had a chance for an equivalent convo because the agenda has been set by the megaservers. It looks like you're on a fork of some kind?In any case, now is a very good time to have that conversation, glad to share space with you in the community
(DIR) Post #AXJ8RhGUo1slVRzfmK by twizzay@thisis.mylegendary.quest
2023-07-03T05:36:14.659532Z
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@ophiocephalic I run akkoma :akkoma: which is a fork of pleroma :pleroma: .I love the choice pixelfed made in that regard. :pixelfed: :blobcatbigfan: I continue to believe Mastodon is killing decentralization. I understand Eugen’s philosophy of being the “jump-start” instance. And thats why their doors remain open. But I dont think thats the way we should welcome people in. Its different here. And that truth should be out in the open from the start.
(DIR) Post #AXJ8UpxmvFmdLtjzBw by twizzay@thisis.mylegendary.quest
2023-07-03T05:36:49.569190Z
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@ophiocephalic Awesome to meet you too! :blobheart:
(DIR) Post #AXJ9d80HphEHZeQW80 by ophiocephalic@kolektiva.social
2023-07-03T05:48:31Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@twizzay Agreed; and your comment points back to the issue of who gets to set agendas around here. Smooth onboarding is an important consideration but it has to be balanced with others.There's something of a crisis going on here with my instance, and it's related to the same problem - folks with my outlook banded together and the centralization bit us.As you say, the fediverse doesn't need to be the new facebook or twitter. It's something else all its own :solidarity:
(DIR) Post #AXJ9i6jHzuEf4Pqo2C by twizzay@thisis.mylegendary.quest
2023-07-03T05:50:26.306446Z
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@ophiocephalic You speak good words. :at_FinnTheBoy-thumbs: