Post AXBvY9ejVGAJmnMNhQ by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #AXBvY95Hd3oE0qm4Rc by jerry@infosec.exchange
2023-06-29T17:57:20Z
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Wow just saw the news out from SCOTUS.
(DIR) Post #AXBvY9ejVGAJmnMNhQ by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T18:08:36Z
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@jerry Getting rid of affirmitive action was a good thing. If we want any policy it should be one where admissions are equal and fair to everyone based on merits and not race. That isnt to say there isnt a racism issue, there is... affirmitive action was just always the wrong way to address it and needed to die for a long time now.
(DIR) Post #AXBvt4oUhdd0qetzU0 by just_a_frog@c.im
2023-06-29T18:12:28Z
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@freemo @jerry What would be the right way to address it?
(DIR) Post #AXBwPnC1EjRpktVPhw by drrrrrck@infosec.exchange
2023-06-29T18:18:26Z
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@freemo @jerry I always saw AA as the counter to racism. There's always a thumb on the scale, and this one assured some balance. Was always stupid to have to force it, but that doesn't take away the fact that it was a necessary policy.
(DIR) Post #AXBwdntHRHnryQQDeC by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T18:20:56Z
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@drrrrrck @jerry I think we agree for sure that the **intent** was to counter racism, and in that sense it is noble. But in practice it basically says "Lets apply racist techniques in a way that benefits minorities and hurts others and then we are even"... using racist tactics to solve racism will never work.
(DIR) Post #AXBwwlbYA8NaNzAfHU by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T18:24:22Z
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@just_a_frog Solving racism isnt simple, nor is there going to be one simple solution to it (which is why AA isnt a solution either, it tries to be)... but some examples?Better access to early education (free tutors, better funding of inner city public schools, free access to extra curricular schooling).Better support for those who are in poverty in terms of healthcare, food and shelter.Better access to mental health care (this is just all around food for families and people).Better training opportunity for their parents (like free education and trade school) so fewer minority families are in poverty to begin with and thus have better opportunities.Just to name a few....@jerry
(DIR) Post #AXBxOtbrzctDK0jXuK by cienmilojos@infosec.exchange
2023-06-29T18:29:29Z
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@freemo @jerry it’s simple to acknowledge when something isn’t working. Especially when you are not in the target demographic of the people in involved. It’s much harder however to provide a solution. Affirmative action was a way to keep these institutions accountable. The only other option that would make sense is to explore, broaden or reconstruct the application process and work towards making “higher quality education” more affordable and something that is accessible to all, not just rich young white men. I really don’t understand this mentality of, “this isn’t working, let’s rip it all down”.
(DIR) Post #AXByVheAy7W6CWccls by AGTMADCAT@infosec.exchange
2023-06-29T18:41:55Z
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@freemo @just_a_frog @jerry Hold up, your last suggestion was Affirmative Action again. So your replacement for AA would be... AA?
(DIR) Post #AXByh31BqqdVfTnQkC by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T18:43:57Z
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@AGTMADCAT @just_a_frog @jerry No not affrimitive action because it the criteria to get help isnt race but poverty. The fact that minorities tend to be in poverty more often will result in something similar that favors minorities, but it would give equal treatment to a poor person regardless of race.
(DIR) Post #AXByp2XZVleuVFkmRM by mjf_pro@hachyderm.io
2023-06-29T18:02:59Z
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@jerry Uncle Thomas slamming the door in the face of his own people is totally in character for him. 😑
(DIR) Post #AXByrVCbuynlyY7hVg by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T18:45:49Z
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@cienmilojos @jerry Considering i am a person of native american decent who comes from a si gke parent in poverty i am exactly the target audience. In fact i benefit far more than most minorities.And while it clearly isnt working, more importantly it is unjust and immoral approach that passes on the wrong sort of values.
(DIR) Post #AXByuvSClvF6GJ39FY by pthenq1@mastodon.la
2023-06-29T18:46:28Z
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@freemo @jerry That is the most idiotic white man phrase I read in a while.I am not going even to try to explain why that concept is false...
(DIR) Post #AXByz1w6c45BWazc7U by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T18:47:13Z
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@pthenq1 @jerry Im not a white man as ive explained many times.
(DIR) Post #AXBzCuH5tXrtojQWES by thebeehammer@infosec.exchange
2023-06-29T18:49:42Z
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@freemo @jerry without affirmative action, all that they have to do is remove college credit programs from majority black schools, or similar. Anything that can take a checkbox away from students and keep them out of the school. Those policies were put in place because these schools looked like a sea of rich white faces. Your bio says you work in AI and ML models. Don’t you normalize a dataset?
(DIR) Post #AXBzidz400nSYi7uM4 by cienmilojos@infosec.exchange
2023-06-29T18:55:26Z
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@freemo @just_a_frog @jerry so your solutions would involve many changes that would take many people to agree on controversial topics that may never come to fruition. Not to say I don’t agree with the changes you are suggesting. I’m just trying to be realistic about the outcome. However you feel about this change it’s going to have a huge impact on disadvantaged people and there is nothing currently in place to make up for making this change.
(DIR) Post #AXBzrMvYmgRmGVeFVI by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T18:55:41Z
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@thebeehammer @jerry Agreed without affrimative action, and even with it, minorities are in a bad and unfair place. Removing more programs would potentially make that worse. Which is why i said despite supporting reversing AA we woukd desperately need to take appropriate actions to address the problem and find something that can be effective without the same issues.
(DIR) Post #AXBzv0Dl9FhD06tSbo by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T18:57:36Z
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@cienmilojos @just_a_frog @jerry Yup and i do realize the difficukty in solving it. But as we can see from the reversal of AA implementing a fundementally unjust attempt at a solution doesnt have acceptance either. Id suggest a real solution without the moral issues AA had woukd stand a much better chance of passing and remaining enforce than half assed solutions with real gapping moral holes people can and will complain about.
(DIR) Post #AXC03FdzgnJB9S67we by pthenq1@mastodon.la
2023-06-29T18:59:12Z
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@freemo @jerry You are not afroamerican
(DIR) Post #AXC0D5rutAtdjHIrKq by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T19:00:59Z
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@pthenq1 @jerry Affirmative action is not for african-americans. It is for all minorities and native americans, like myself, benefit from it far more than most. Not to mention my people have been murdered and abused in the greatest numbers of any minority in the USA.
(DIR) Post #AXC0RTF6mVreHE0Sga by fencepost@infosec.exchange
2023-06-29T19:03:34Z
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@freemo @just_a_frog @jerry ah, so you're in favor of reparations to address the results of generations of exclusions and theft.
(DIR) Post #AXC0aV4VLo7mYVLtuC by cienmilojos@infosec.exchange
2023-06-29T19:05:10Z
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@freemo @just_a_frog @jerry if the only concern is people complaining, that’s really a non-issue. People will complain, forever and always. They’ll complain about the changes you suggested. My problem with this whole thing is instead of coming up with a solution we now have another problem. So you know can someone go resurrect JFK so we can try this again?
(DIR) Post #AXC139On0bcPjiVB5s by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T19:10:19Z
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@cienmilojos No the only concern is not people complaining. Tbe concern is it is structured in an injust way using racist-like principles. The fact that people complain means it is likely not to hold up as a law, and ultimately be nullified as it just was. Which means its not just unjust, but also will not serve as a protection for long due to its unconstitutional nature.Aa was never a sokution, thats also the problem. I woukd argue people woukd complain a lot less about real solutions that dont soubd like a racists playbook than they ever will AA. Thats the problem with a lot the left does, the intention is good but its so poorly structured, to the point of being unjust, that their psuedosolutions never stick around for long since they rely on a thin transient majority rather than comrpomise (the republicans dont do this much better mind you)@just_a_frog @jerry
(DIR) Post #AXC19YLJBHiypsvVHk by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T19:11:30Z
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@fencepost @just_a_frog @jerry I stated exactly what im in favor of... please quote tbe part where i said that so i can explain it further to you.
(DIR) Post #AXC1MXA8sc6qwMtS8u by thebeehammer@infosec.exchange
2023-06-29T19:13:52Z
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@freemo @jerry you just advocated for removing pressure from the wound because nobody is ready to suture it. Affirmative Action was a stop gap and never far enough to address the systemic inequality. It wasn’t perfect but was a help. I don’t think it “fixed the wound” but it helped stop the hemorrhaging and gave some people an opportunity in the mean time.
(DIR) Post #AXC1g1rqwYqXfkdPzE by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T19:17:21Z
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@thebeehammer @jerry And im arguing not only didnt it help, it mad3 matters worse, as any solution that a photocopy of a racists rule book would... you dont fix discrimination by creating more discrimination... what people shoukd have done is when they had enough of a vote tonpass a law they shoukd have created a real solution, which woukd have had more support not less, and we woukdnt be in this situation.There was never a compelling argument to pass an unjust as a stop gap since a just one woukd have had more support, not less, AA has been opposed dtrongly since the start and for very valid reasons. A solution without valid criticism woukd have passed easier and probably lasted.
(DIR) Post #AXC2JWMJVllrX7iJKi by cienmilojos@infosec.exchange
2023-06-29T19:24:30Z
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@freemo @just_a_frog @jerry I guess in this matter it was decided that no solution is better than any solution. 🤷🏻♂️ And I don’t agree with you that affirmative action was racist and that’s OK.
(DIR) Post #AXC2dWApuRNOkbsebA by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T19:28:05Z
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@cienmilojos Im nto calling it racist, that is a matter of semantics.. i am saying it is racist-like... taking the equation racists use and using it. Regardless of if it is racist, it resembles it close enough to be a problem, and with good reason.And I kind of agree something is better than nothing. But the only way you get a good, effective, and just, something is if you reject it when its not, because thats the only time people are forced to try to comrpimise and find a better solution, one that doesnt violate the constitution (as perceived by the SCOTUS)@just_a_frog @jerry
(DIR) Post #AXCrerb2qCZX8zXRCa by subm3rge@infosec.exchange
2023-06-30T04:59:49Z
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@freemo @thebeehammer @jerry Sir, I applaud your cool in arguing your point here. Well done.
(DIR) Post #AXDmZolPdm1eIW7eDo by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-30T15:37:35Z
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@subm3rge @thebeehammer @jerry Thank you