Post AX7km4D4fk6Eoz0xX6 by Valheru@app.bikers.social
(DIR) More posts by Valheru@app.bikers.social
(DIR) Post #AX5JQgmrTbAl17PpOS by Wander@packmates.org
2023-06-25T13:54:27Z
9 likes, 10 repeats
The #Fediverse needs to learn some serious conflict resolution...If we ever aspire to become a serious alternative to corporate platforms we can't continue with this behavior. Let me explain.Two days ago someone created a "The_Donald" community of a well-known #Lemmy instance. Immediately there were cries for defederation, blocking, and suspicion about the admin letting racists run rampant on his instance.Ultimately when the admin logged in they removed that community. But before they even had time to realize what was happening they were already being accused of stuff and if any instance heeded the call to block, it would have caused damage to the users who would have their subscriptions / follows severed.Some users who've just arrived from Reddit and bring a fresh perspective are already wary of the shit show this can become. That instance resisted massive blocks because it was large enough. But what if it was smaller? >>#Mastodon #Kbin #Project92 #MastoAdmin
(DIR) Post #AX5JQj3F3fSo2V5wCe by Wander@packmates.org
2023-06-25T14:02:28Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
Had it been a smaller instance it could have been fediblocked to oblivion. Users would have lost contact to their friends and communities and many would have come to the conclusion that it's not worth it being on smaller instances and flock to massive ones or even back to corporate platforms where that problem doesn't exist.A few days ago I faced a similar problem myself. We were blocked by an instance 200 times larger than outselves because I had the gall to suggest talking to a user about a report to get their version of events instead of killing them on sight. My instance was blocked even before the conversation was over, just like that.And to top it all off a few days later a report that one of our users sent out (a different user, mind you) and for a completely different reason was taken as proof that I'm letting my users abuse the report system and support abusive behavior!? Everything was done and blocked before I had even logged in.Only one admin of the three instances
(DIR) Post #AX5JQl1BkH0e8i9KHQ by Wander@packmates.org
2023-06-25T14:14:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
involved reached out to ask and get more information.It's increasingly difficult for me to not side with my users if the alternative is a moderation style that's aggressive and ruthless.But this isn't about me. When these new Reddit refugees express their concerns about something that seems to have been normalized on #mastodon or the wider #fediverse, I realize that I'm not alone.Jabber / #XMPP did not have this problem. Neither does email, mainly because it's all private messages, but we better do something to be more responsible with our users to which we owe a sensible moderation instead of doing things on a whim with disregard of the people it affects.#Lemmy / #Kbin needs to implement silences and Fediblock's popularity needs to be converted into Fedimute.Fediblocking IMHO is almost only warranted if a remote instance is spammy, harassing or disruptive. Just like blocking spam servers.Muting should be implemented in such a way that it allows the instance owner to
(DIR) Post #AX5JQmjtLYMVTe4Xb6 by Wander@packmates.org
2023-06-25T14:19:57Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
curate public timelines and shield users from interactions that could be unwanted but which can be allowed if the users decided to accept a follow or follows back.And most importantly, any big moderation decisions need be discussed with time, a cool head and a user-oriented attitude first.Otherwise what's the point of us smaller instances existing if we're going to be rolled over by larger ones on a whim?#Fediverse #Mastodon #Lemmy #Kbin
(DIR) Post #AX5KeImbcUUmZtLoqu by thendrix@social.hendrixgames.com
2023-06-26T13:47:02.067411Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
That’s just a user quality issue, which makes sense as Redditors are well-known to lack critical thinking and choose mob mentality and groupthink every time. The fix is to beat that mentality out of new users.
(DIR) Post #AX5h0xpNtXN1EqrUjA by mrsaturday@shitposter.club
2023-06-26T17:57:39.085548Z
10 likes, 5 repeats
@Wander The fediverse has had the issue of a "block everyone first and ask questions later" culture since Gargron went around touting it to journalists as "Twitter without Nazis." It attracted the kind of people that want the internet, if not the world at large to be a safe space devoid of people that disagree with them. That line of thinking is also really rampant among Reddit moderators, and Lemmy instances tend to give you the worst of both worlds.
(DIR) Post #AX7Wx8nCZk58rTIbYG by wogan@mastodon.africa
2023-06-27T15:14:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wander Maybe the real moderation is not blocking the harmful stuff, but keeping communities from tearing themselves apart from drama?
(DIR) Post #AX7Ya6Vx4zrl2lNDlo by Jain@blob.cat
2023-06-27T15:32:33.635078Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wander i agree, there are not many instances out there which i would recommend... I recently did write a similiar post. Fedi has also got a transparency problem, which doesnt make things easier
(DIR) Post #AX7klA8BAkuStaIG80 by Valheru@app.bikers.social
2023-06-25T15:43:23Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Wander Especially if you end up with a bunch of humourless twats dropping complaints randomly at any excuse. It reminds me of the time I was accused of being fat phobic after posting a meme about a naked motorcyclist playing a piano and making no reference to their weight. Added context that I am both fat, and a motorcyclist.
(DIR) Post #AX7km3ThORnsYFmio4 by Wander@packmates.org
2023-06-25T16:46:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Valheru What I don't understand is why they didn't simply remove that post from their instance? They did acknowledge that there was no malicious intent and could have easily removed the post themselves for their users.
(DIR) Post #AX7km4D4fk6Eoz0xX6 by Valheru@app.bikers.social
2023-06-25T19:58:00Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Wander Or told the user to grow up, it's kinda odd as they acknowledge there's no intent, mainly because it's nothing to do with being fat. Nudity, motorcycles and piano playing yes.....lack of PPE?Off track but my point was similar to yours in that an admin shouldn't be catering to a lone complaint which has implications on a whole server. By default there is always going to be someone not 100% with something.
(DIR) Post #AX7l9OYhBMaAamFdzM by Piss_Ant@spinster.xyz
2023-06-27T17:53:24.811856Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Wander Ironic that a redditor would go to any other website and not conform to their culture and policies perfectly.
(DIR) Post #AX7m7rGvYUxZ1JltHk by AUc34pg7Dq80K0xUzQ.spitfire@poster.place
2023-06-27T18:04:21.136412Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aa10a4fbbff6525cde5c8c10115ab57cbfcab2d56d4bb5eb396d9566a365d015 @Wander
(DIR) Post #AX7n9sm12n8cD5qGHI by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-06-27T18:15:53.531881Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
i gave up trying to point out how destructive wanton block federation shit like this is. morons just say stupid shit like "oh yeah well you must be a cis white techbro" and its like.. fine, live in your hugbox.
(DIR) Post #AX7nEOm20fWOcE0EAy by morgthorak@poa.st
2023-06-27T18:16:44.376947Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@mrsaturday @Wander All of this crap came out of the colleges and universities, it started more than 30 years ago. When I left, I thought I'd left it behind forever, but then it oozed out like a blob of disgusting mucous and took over the country, even online communities.Sickening to see, I remember the internet before the woke communists took it over. It was a far better place.
(DIR) Post #AX7ngzNtUAhQGnLUCu by Jain@blob.cat
2023-06-27T18:21:52.261256Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@icedquinn i get the feeling that slowly more and more people realize that what certain admins do is not good
(DIR) Post #AX7t0Yg8zBEF0S24xs by untsuki@udongein.xyz
2023-06-27T19:21:19.359401Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wander I know of a situation where followbots made by trolls appeared on Ukrainian Mastodon instance claiming to be "Ukraine Nazi".This was an attack on open registrations server because trolls knew moderators were offline due to outage, but admin had a lot of trouble asking other instances to lift defederations afterwards, and I have personally seen fediblock posts saying to not hesitate and block by domain (though person who posted it was nice to edit post when I pointed out misunderstanding)
(DIR) Post #AX7tcAw3i9aoN7PiXA by laru@burrow.rabbits-at.work
2023-06-27T19:26:59.866058Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@untsuki unrelated but that just reminded me of something
(DIR) Post #AX7uqQFff6ytsnwcsK by bhawthorne@infosec.exchange
2023-06-27T14:54:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Wander @mastodonmigration “If we ever aspire to become a serious alternative to corporate platforms”Well, that’s the crux of the issue, isn’t it? Do we aspire to become a “serious alternative” to corporate platforms? I suspect many of us do not. And even among those of us who do, many likely have very different ideas about what a “serious alternative” might look like.I have no problem with the Fediverse consisting of several entirely isolated and mutually unfederated parts, as it already does today, and I see instances defederating as part of the dynamic nature of changing relationships among the disparate islands in the Fediverse archipelago, even if those shifting alliances mean breaking connections among individuals. The Fediverse encompasses everyone using ActivityPub, not just those of us on instances that subscribe to the Mastodon Server Covenant.The only way to have a “serious alternative” to corporate platforms is to recognize that the Fediverse is not, will not, and cannot be a uniform, united entity. Just like individuals and states, islands in the Fediverse are constantly renegotiating their diplomatic relations with other islands. Sure, this means that individuals may see their connections to people on other islands severed, but individuals in the Fediverse have agency, and I consider it a strength of the seriousness of the Fediverse that with that agency comes the responsibility to manage one’s own information and connections. The patronizing approach of corporate media to individual “users” is what needs to be replaced. People are so used to the us-vs-them approach of users and corporate owners, that they mistakenly bring that mindset to the Fediverse. There is no THEM in the Fediverse. There is just US. Some of us volunteer our time to write code. Some of us volunteer our time to run instances. Some of us volunteer to moderate instances. Some of us donate money to help support instances. Some of us engage with people. Some of us write fascinating articles. Some of us find and boost interesting posts. Some of us are readers. But nowhere in all of those individuals is a “them”. If individuals feel that people losing connections due to defederation is a problem, the solution is not to rail against defederation, but rather for those individuals to identify how they would like maintain their connections in the inevitable and, I would argue, desirable dynamic of shifting alliances, and to then implement those solutions in code.The serious alternative that the Fediverse offers to commercial platforms is the concept of individual agency, respect, and responsibility as a replacement for Owners and Users.
(DIR) Post #AX7uqRG3v8t90J8S7k by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2023-06-27T18:10:40Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@bhawthorne @Wander @mastodonmigration > islands in the Fediverse are constantly renegotiating their diplomatic relations with other islandsI think negotiation and diplomacy means talking to the other party before taking drastic actions...