Post AX7VxTgcnCGFhzos2C by troubledturtle@poa.st
(DIR) More posts by troubledturtle@poa.st
(DIR) Post #AX7VIO3unaukON7UaO by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T14:55:45.633994Z
6 likes, 4 repeats
Love how so many of these restorations start as “well, this old white guy was in tahiti, and he looked around at the airport and saw the locals had been using this wreck as a decoration…..”
(DIR) Post #AX7VNTMEXPjcGP74N6 by Ottovonshitpost@mugicha.club
2023-06-27T14:56:40.235746Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
Decoration or a shrine
(DIR) Post #AX7VcQFuLyTwzEHbiC by Eiswald@poa.st
2023-06-27T14:59:23.264507Z
6 likes, 0 repeats
@Ottovonshitpost @WashedOutGundamPilot >be shitskins>Whites have long left or disappeared from your area>use his creations as shrines to gods of sorts>White man comes back>restores it to full functionality>kill White man for desecrating your sacred shrine
(DIR) Post #AX7VgJa76qqJRgaeAK by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:00:03.110353Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Ottovonshitpost If you’re lucky. Half the time they just sat in the jungle until the 70’s, when someone bought them, brought them over, and got in over their head in the restoration. That BF109 I posted fell into that pattern
(DIR) Post #AX7VxTgcnCGFhzos2C by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:03:11.644962Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot That a P-47G ? pretty sure thats what it is.
(DIR) Post #AX7VzwITOGqt1OhF8C by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:03:37.912665Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Eiswald @Ottovonshitpost In a way though, they’re the ones preserving this history. These things were allowed to slumber in their lands, largely untouched in some cases, where the white man pushed them off the carrier decks into the sea by the hundreds, tore them into scraps to become beer cans because selling them “wasn’t worth the trouble”Downright criminal how much heritage the government trashed in the postwar era. There’s no reason on earth for those aircraft to have been destroyed when we have hundreds of thousands of miles of desert to let them rest in
(DIR) Post #AX7W9hK9uigHTp8dFo by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:05:23.696904Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle https://www.aircorpsaviation.com/project/p-47d-23-razorback/
(DIR) Post #AX7WFAaWXSCPgkOzKK by AnimeTradCath@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:06:23.388779Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Eiswald @Ottovonshitpost @WashedOutGundamPilot such is the White Man's burden
(DIR) Post #AX7Wa491gsGRmlVKOe by Paultron@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:10:07.689171Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot @troubledturtle never gonna forgive the Fairchild execs and Pentagon deskniggers for forcing the employees to torch their archives going back to the 1920s. so much stuff about the development of the P-47s, severskys, funky interwar airliners and early cold war jets just gone forever because lmao some of it is probably secret and we ain't gonna sort
(DIR) Post #AX7Wa4SWWNrOlEctmq by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:10:07.879870Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot My autism was so close :)
(DIR) Post #AX7WifRCv2VTlV6sEa by DE@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:11:43.426226Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot @Eiswald @Ottovonshitpost There is every reason not to: If you know how good things really were eventually you will realize the gilding of the cage has been replaced with rust and worse.
(DIR) Post #AX7Wm4ElAkvFXzuPcu by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:12:19.878419Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Paultron @troubledturtle We blame the boomers but I’ve seen that attitude through at least the 1900s, if not longer. Americans have a very short memory, and a shameful disinterest in history. I think a good deal of that just comes from being a young nation, for much of the land your oldest ‘historic’ structures are wooden cabins from the 1800s. Add in the quick march of tech, and it makes sense why people in 1950 would look at quickly obsolescent tech and think “ugh, who’s gonna want this in 50 years? we’ll have flying cars by then!!!”
(DIR) Post #AX7Wmz2fyM7nj1h4Cm by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:12:30.204100Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Paultron @WashedOutGundamPilot Thats retarded ,doesnt matter if it was secret because it was all rendered moot once we switched over to jets.
(DIR) Post #AX7Wr4zbn4arL4DCgi by Zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com
2023-06-27T15:13:14.883740Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Fuyutsuki @Ottovonshitpost @Eiswald @WashedOutGundamPilot >museum shipYou just want to explore her insides, don't you?
(DIR) Post #AX7WxYDI3snxhchIBc by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:14:24.308001Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Fuyutsuki @Ottovonshitpost @Eiswald Ships I at LEAST kind of get. They require tremendous upkeep and some usable seaside parking space. Not too profitable, not portable, and they open you to decades of regulatory hassle. For smaller equipment? No excuse. Every mustang could have happily been parked at smaller airports around the country for 50 years w/o issue, every small field has a built up crust of that already. What’s another dozen?
(DIR) Post #AX7X3VyXIMqmV0djYe by Paultron@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:15:29.411599Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @WashedOutGundamPilot well they had modern documentation too for stuff like A-10 and their manufacturing projects for F-14. Just stored on the same shelves as the old piston fighters. important stuff was backed up at the pentagon so they said torch it all. I think an engineer managed to get out a copier paper box of stuff he deemed important but stuff like P-47 prototype trail data, original line drawings and iterations, manufacturing details, all gone
(DIR) Post #AX7XAdkemYNQdxXtI0 by Ottovonshitpost@mugicha.club
2023-06-27T15:16:45.646768Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
They turned the Enterprise (CV-6), the most decorated ship in US Navy history, into scrap. I hate that
(DIR) Post #AX7XPon01gNPDisY5I by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:19:30.672728Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @Paultron The aerodynamics actually weren’t known by then though. I was just reading about this, the other day. There were aero studies in the states that were openly published, until it was disbarred in 1938. Had the krauts paid attention they could have made a much sleeker BF109, which would have paid off handsomely throughout its life cycle. Notable that the Spitfire and Messerschmitt were designed and tested around the same time, but one ended the war as a highly competent fighter, while the other was merely passable after a series of kludges. Aerodynamics count for a lot, and when you have rosenbergs poking around everywhere I can at least get why the gov was trying to limit knowledge transfer as much as it could. The russians ended up with a lot of alien, dead end tech because they were forced to stumble around and develop things on their own -the US has always been a research powerhouse in terms of resources to throw at engineering.
(DIR) Post #AX7XQULTWPJc6WKA0u by nierenstein@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:17:00.829516Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron @troubledturtle America's relative lack of cool historic structures is about 80% of why I don't respect injuns
(DIR) Post #AX7XjcypdrUuO1rL16 by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:23:03.718003Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Ottovonshitpost @Fuyutsuki @Eiswald What’s funny is that I’d agree with scrapping it until the last 10 years. There simply wasn’t much naval enthusiasm in the states, most seaside regions lack the enthusiast base to provide the needed support to keep a warship museum going. I’ve seen the upkeep costs for warbirds….I can only imagine the amount of labor required to keep a carrier from becoming a giant rush heap. It’s a tremendous, crippling amount of work to fight rust in a seaside, always-open location. Throughout the 60-00’s, I just don’t believe you’d find enough people willing to volunteer, hardly any to pay for a tour. Now that we have our waifu simulators, world of ships, youtube bolstering naval enthusiasm you may see the calculus change. Watch for more successful preservation efforts going forward.
(DIR) Post #AX7XqoJnsvgTZw5rzE by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:24:23.990081Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron Why you gotta go and make a logical explanation ? :)
(DIR) Post #AX7Y6fozFDi1rJF9ZA by William_The_Dragonborn@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:27:15.868183Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot @troubledturtle @Paultron m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pWmHeikZxQ&t=326s
(DIR) Post #AX7ZEs0ptz4NwKG4FE by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:39:56.437865Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @Paultron Because it’s very interesting to think about. Messerschmitt really screwed up in a few ways doing the BF109. If he’d had more vision, been smarter, been more invested in his design past meeting the minimum spec, he could have turned out an even MORE impressive aircraft that would have provided much-needed edge to his boys in their dire war years. It’s almost weird that he didn’t do more to make the 109 more aerodynamic, the germans were cleaning up on speed records, already smart enough to make sleek, high-performance birds, but he just….turned in something with high wing loading and a pretty drag-laden airframe. Would it have made a huge difference? Not in the grand scheme. But it’s strange to see regardless. People think of the sleek spitfire and P51 as being a totally diff generation from the BF109….but they were designed more or less concurrently. When the germans saw the first P51 they were blown away by it’s sleek form, cd on it was something like 1/4 what the 109’s wasSomething to be learned from willie messerschmitt’s career, when you’re building wartime aircraft it’s probably good to go the extra mile, even when the specification doesn’t demand it.
(DIR) Post #AX7ZSqu4p1oqYQlPZw by Paultron@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:42:28.779921Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ottovonshitpost @WashedOutGundamPilot @Fuyutsuki @Eiswald still sad over the brits being so poor they had to send Warspite to the breakers, even after she broke herself out of her tow chains and put herself ashore
(DIR) Post #AX7ZcnNSmpLGVxFZuC by Ottovonshitpost@mugicha.club
2023-06-27T15:44:14.874744Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
I've visited the CV-10 Yorktown 2 and I would trade the Yorktown for the Enterprise tbh
(DIR) Post #AX7ZiTXZS8ZyjEgcWu by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:45:18.236422Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron > cd on it was something like 1/4 what the 109’s wascd ?
(DIR) Post #AX7ZjbkQQKSETNEsHg by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:45:30.160686Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Fuyutsuki @Ottovonshitpost @Eiswald They tried, though. In the end the money wasn’t there. It’s easy to say “it belongs as a museum ship!!!” it’s another to find $10 million to waste on a niche nerd interest. With a better gov, that wouldn’t be a problem, but reality is what it is. They tried to get the enterprise handed over but they ran out of time and money. Not enough americans cared to support it.
(DIR) Post #AX7Zy2E6lzOgeK0CfY by Paultron@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:48:04.848765Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Ottovonshitpost @WashedOutGundamPilot @Fuyutsuki @Eiswald i've visited intrepid and would agree. similarly visiting wisconsin isn't as cool as touring iowa even though they are of the same class. pride of the fleet sort of thing
(DIR) Post #AX7aOEL0Mlrljzidt2 by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T15:52:50.246683Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @Paultron Drag coefficient. Kind of a short way to assign an overall value to how efficient your design cuts through the air. There’s some interesting comparison between the mustang and the spitfire, where they were powered by the same engines but ended up with 30 mph speed difference…. IKR exactly but I want to say the biggest diff. was the induction system being more efficient on the ‘stang. Tiny changes on a plane add up more than you think. Cessna guys can take off like, 10% shorter just by adding gap seals to their wings. A little strip of tape keeps air stuck to the wing, improves lift, etc. IIRC the BF109 could have benefitted from them, too. An old aero report said that production left gaps in the slats too often, which robbed performance.
(DIR) Post #AX7apYFESdnHIe2x4i by Ottovonshitpost@mugicha.club
2023-06-27T15:57:46.708494Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Yeah I've seen the Wisconsin, pretty cool
(DIR) Post #AX7bBL1SIkVwf8zWfQ by Paultron@poa.st
2023-06-27T16:01:43.485170Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ottovonshitpost @Fuyutsuki @Eiswald @WashedOutGundamPilot i've already booked a lie flat business seat for cheep to go see Mikasa. I figure I need a trip to London for HMS Belfast and i'll have done all the museum ships i care to that are still around
(DIR) Post #AX7c9WFzf22QsfUJou by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T16:12:35.939110Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron Thanks for the explanation . My love of planes comes from my father who got me into building models , we both had a particular fondness for WW2 prop planes . I do like jets ,but most dont grab my attention except for a select few ,two jets that really excite me , is the F-14 Tomcat and F-86 Sabre . Honorable mention goes to the LTV A-7 Corsair II.
(DIR) Post #AX7eUqfj9YCuBcp5pg by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T16:38:51.600459Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @Paultron I always gravitated towards the weird, out-of-war aircraft. The postwar props, the interwar biplane experiments. There are some cool later stuff but it’s not as accessible or fun to fly, you can understand a vintage prop aircraft, its systems are similar to a car’s still.
(DIR) Post #AX7gEcUmIFmBUf5hSa by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T16:58:20.007418Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Paultron @Ottovonshitpost @Fuyutsuki @Eiswald That too would never have worked. Warspite wouldn’t have been legal to have tourists on, she’d been shelled and broken for half a century of hard combat use. Didn’t she have her keel busted by a fritz bomb, too? I know she got smacked around at Jutland. I just don’t see any way the brits would take the risk on that, it’d be decades of plugging holes and fighting a losing battle w/ rust while kid trip around the warped hallways and sue you for damages
(DIR) Post #AX7h0YlBU6oHoBcleK by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:07:00.415849Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron I love that stuff too , for me its the Twin Mustang and flying flapjack as far as experimental whacky planes go.
(DIR) Post #AX7hCpFG1GRcPXXW2S by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:09:12.852803Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @Paultron There was a 109 version like that, I think. Similar idea
(DIR) Post #AX7hMhEieNeaT5zjAO by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:11:00.443072Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron me-109 nevingtonwarmuseum.com/me-109-zwilling.html me-109
(DIR) Post #AX7hsmZOM91EHBxp20 by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:16:48.356863Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron When your into building model airplanes you see alot of weird kits of planes you never knew existed .
(DIR) Post #AX7i3CsXOaAwldtEYq by William_The_Dragonborn@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:18:41.389491Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron BF 109-Z
(DIR) Post #AX7iEQGJyZ9nSfMXce by William_The_Dragonborn@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:20:42.998572Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron Xp 55
(DIR) Post #AX7iM7qeK4dofT1myG by William_The_Dragonborn@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:22:03.228278Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron Though my favorite was the Ho 229 it could pull extreme G’s for the time.
(DIR) Post #AX7iW40tR2qrfcYfSa by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:23:53.390008Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@William_The_Dragonborn @WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron Dornier Do 335
(DIR) Post #AX7ic9wMJPpFn1LNs8 by William_The_Dragonborn@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:25:00.253656Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron The steel arrow was actually the fastest prop plane.
(DIR) Post #AX7ilR7vmXjlhQBFEu by William_The_Dragonborn@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:26:40.995302Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron Compared to the spitfire the TA 152 was slender and beautiful and was the final evolution of the fw 190
(DIR) Post #AX7jGyIUVOoLYJ9mca by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:32:22.980490Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@William_The_Dragonborn @WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron Something about the words Focke Wulf is so appealing to me.
(DIR) Post #AX7jKTE3yDCsLPkoLY by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:33:00.919812Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@William_The_Dragonborn @WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron I love the look of that plane ,so sleek .
(DIR) Post #AX7jLR4DTwytwFbnKS by William_The_Dragonborn@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:33:11.373914Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron They still make the A8’s today though I like the D models.
(DIR) Post #AX7jaKK4q56BMj7zhA by Whitewall_Blasphemy@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:35:52.913495Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron I had fun flying that in WoWP when humans played the game.
(DIR) Post #AX7jaOAeX3w9IekWYq by William_The_Dragonborn@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:35:53.560743Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron I am a War Thunder nerd, even their night fighters looked sleek
(DIR) Post #AX7kUZzRm96aAoIlnM by troubledturtle@poa.st
2023-06-27T17:46:02.722569Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@William_The_Dragonborn @WashedOutGundamPilot @Paultron Love night fighters ,tops for me is the P-38 Night fighter and the Douglas F3D Skynight .
(DIR) Post #AX7loWs1BVCiF8u58S by victor@crucible.world
2023-06-27T18:00:36.231975Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@troubledturtle @Paultron @WashedOutGundamPilot > when AI generates your aircraft design
(DIR) Post #AX8Ak6CUti7jDyT0Ou by hogankhan@poa.st
2023-06-27T22:12:31.806314Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot @troubledturtle @Paultron That's odd.From what I thought it was the Germans that overdesigned their tanks and aircraft, when a lesser cheaper quicker-to-produce version would have worked better given the odds they were up against.
(DIR) Post #AX8Ak7JGm18QfGdvay by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T22:40:09.535930Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@hogankhan @troubledturtle @Paultron It’s not ‘overengineered’, it’s strongest aspects are ease of manufacture and field repairability. They just left a bit of performance on the table that they wouldn’t have had to. Willie messerschmitt was kind of….retarded. Boomer, more like it today. Some make the case that his decision to make the auto leading edge slats and super narrow-track gear killed a whole lot of young german pilots, and they were things he was specifically cautioned about from everyone around him. He was obstinate, stuck up about his designs….but he didn’t have the requisite level of genius to be that arrogant. He pumped out a lot of aircraft, yeah, but how many were truly great? Not a whole ton. Lots of B’s and C’s on that report card. If he’d been more humble, more open to input from others, the 109 could have been a better, safer, plane that aged gracefully throughout the war. They wouldn’t have needed a dozen variations just to continuously lag behind the allies every 6 months. It was a fine fighter in its own right, he just….turned in a B grade when he had everything he needed to turn in an A+ out of the gate. He built a plane to last 3 years before replacement, instead of swinging for the fences and aiming for 10.
(DIR) Post #AX8Anml77hHs5MPs0m by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T22:40:50.595856Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
The 109 def. had its advantages, which tend to cloud over the problems, but I don’t like giving the glory to the aircraft when it was the pilots that worked their magic. They became aces in spite of the 109, rather than because of it.
(DIR) Post #AX8AsKDWfTyn0qs1oG by Ottovonshitpost@mugicha.club
2023-06-27T22:41:39.805520Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Gunther Rall was asked how many of the oldheads switched to Fw 190s and he said "Not many, we all liked our 109s"
(DIR) Post #AX8BKrm5UnjbCJe6mO by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T22:46:49.034600Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Ottovonshitpost They got good with it, because they survived the learning period. Lots of young kids weren’t so lucky. It absolutely punished beginners. Sure, the aces came to like it but every skilled professional likes the tools they’re accustomed to.I forget the exact stat, but imagine if every one of those guys had another 3 pilots that managed to make it through training without being killed or crippled. Would have been nice to have in ‘45
(DIR) Post #AX8CNzZz2BMSE72SWm by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T22:58:35.444586Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
@Ottovonshitpost Though, in fairness, part of what sucks about it was the fact that the luftwaffe was pretty mismanaged. It was a vicious cycle -> Finicky aircraft that takes a deft hand to adequately pilot under stress, combat, rough fields, and weather> Train initial corps of pilots, see considerable success> Keep those pilots at the front instead of training new kids at home> Everyone struggles w/ learning curve, student casualties continue> Experienced pilots die, taking knowledge with them> Trainees given less time, less training, with more powerful aircraft> Newer models even harder to tame for inexperienced, casualties continue unabatedThe US had somewhat similar problems with the mustang, from what I hear. Old guy told me some crazy stat like 2/5 of one training class lost their aircraft to crashes. That rad scoop tended to catch and flip.... not great to come to a stop, inverted, covered in gas, and concussed if you wanna be able to keep flying aircraft in the war.
(DIR) Post #AX8CmltF4HQl0drWnQ by Ottovonshitpost@mugicha.club
2023-06-27T23:03:04.268887Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Corsair used to be called the Ensign Eliminator because that big hog nose on the front restricted your view in a carrier landing, also sprayed oil all over the canopy. But yes, the operational tempo of the Luftwaffe ground men into dust.
(DIR) Post #AX8CyHsuS9PXQNCLPE by Ottovonshitpost@mugicha.club
2023-06-27T23:05:07.761206Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Asshole is puckering just looking at this
(DIR) Post #AX8D3bxFGExX7NlSym by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T23:06:04.189196Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ottovonshitpost They were all pretty bad, overall. Side effect of TW A/C, they’re a real bitch to fly. Even long time owners flip & tip all the time. Gotta be on your toes and have the muscle memory built in…..kinda difficult to foster that in wartime.
(DIR) Post #AX8DfxcDAv6HImDFLM by hogankhan@poa.st
2023-06-27T23:06:04.891817Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@WashedOutGundamPilot @troubledturtle @Paultron Okay maybe just tanks then. I do not know in detail the engineering it is just what I have heard. For the Sherman tank it was nothing on the various German tanks but Americans could produce them in large numbers and had the logistics to support them.Whereas the German tanks were beasts but couldn't be produced in very large numbers and they had to be supplied by men on horseback.
(DIR) Post #AX8DfyYLglbYD5Pfxg by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T23:13:02.248529Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@hogankhan @troubledturtle @Paultron Well, the 109 DID have some of that thoroughbred spirit in it. Liquid cooled is not the best system for a fighter, and the DB601 was a fine little sewing machine that didn’t take a prop strike well. Radials tolerated a lot more damage and still kept chugging. The great parts of the 109 were the simplicity of construction, ease of upkeep. Inverted engine allowed the techs to swap out parts and work on it sans equipment, with everything at eye level while parked. The wing assembly was simple, light. Everything was contained in the fuselage. 109 had a cool approach to dogfighting, too, with a bit longer zero and doctrine that gave them more range to gun down opponents. But it STILL had the germanic vibe from a Pilot POV. From what I hear (not having flown one myself) the panel layout was not too great, easily clouded in sun/shadow, lacked an attitude indicator, and maybe had iffy transitions on takeoff between throttle/flaps/gear, IIRC. Been a while for me, but that’s the gist. Funny that some actually liked the cramped cockpit, they felt like it locked them in more for maneuvering, like a bolstered sports car seat. Downside is that they pilots only got half the leverage they’d have in something like a spitfire, (i THINK that’s from winkle’s book)If willy had just been willing to listen to people, make it a bit bigger, sleeker, roomier it could have had more space to grow. Also goering’s fat ass should have prioritized big ass drop tanks, wouldn’t have lost so many guys in the BoB when they kept ditching in the channel, too.
(DIR) Post #AX8FiUHCucf15PikGO by BitterPill@poa.st
2023-06-27T23:35:54.942711Z
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@WashedOutGundamPilot @Ottovonshitpost I'm not an aviation nor a WW2 nerd, so this thread is all new trivia to me. How did the He 112 compare? I only ask since it was my favorite when wasting countless hours in War Thunder.
(DIR) Post #AX8Gf1qoF4QY0jHv5U by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-27T23:46:28.991323Z
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@BitterPill @Ottovonshitpost That’s the Heinkel one?. TBH I couldn’t tell you, never did much reading on it. I only remembered a bunch of this BF109 stuff b/c I was reading through a friend’s library the other day, refreshed my know-how and talked about it for a while w/ him. The 112 may have been a better option, but ol’ willy mess. was politically connected. It could have beated the 109 out, but it would need more space, payload, range, and safety for whatever the cost basis was over it. I wouldn’t even be surprised if they picked the 109 regardless, warts and all it was a pretty quick thing to build, to the point it’s still somewhere in the top 3 most-produced aircraft ever. Some of its troubles stem from the same aspects that allowed them to make so many.
(DIR) Post #AX8GqLytjo0td6TI9o by Ottovonshitpost@mugicha.club
2023-06-27T23:48:31.321790Z
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I think the Zudah is cool!
(DIR) Post #AX8HZzsMG2JoOLB1rk by Consoomer88@poa.st
2023-06-27T23:56:47.403396Z
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@WashedOutGundamPilot There was no other craft that was capable of doing what the 109 did to allow them to accumulate such ridiculous kill counts. The 109 pre-G model was a thoroughbred killing machine. There was literally nothing better in the world at the mission it was designed for.The RAF even admitted that the design philosophy of “Make the smallest airframe possible and cram the biggest engine available into it” was something RAF designers should copy.The only thing even close, the Spitfire, could outturn it but it was slower and couldn’t climb with it.Even in ‘43, with the US fully committed the only competition it really had was from the Spit Mk V and the 190-and neither of them could stay with the 109 in a climb.Such performance has its price. Pre and early war jagdflieger trainees had a much easier time of learning the 109 vs those at the end of the war, with 10 hours in a Storch, who were stuffed into a G-10 or a Kurfusrt and told to go dance with Zemkes Wolfpack, RAF Tempests and Spitfire XIV and La-5’s. There are very few extreme high performance aircraft that aren’t dangerous to an inexperienced pilot.See-F-104 lol
(DIR) Post #AX8LcrVSENud7U5MbQ by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-06-28T00:42:05.377311Z
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@Consoomer88 The 109 was still competitive on paper, but that’s assuming peak pilot ability. In the hands of skilled test pilots you’re getting nine tenths of the machine’s performance, but how much do you see wrung out in the hands of the average line pilot?Winkle could make a 109 dance to its full potential, but what about Klaus Steigel, a 17 yo farm boy with 1,200 hours of steam tractor piloting under his belt? Will it let him fuck up a few times without killing him? All that isn’t the plane’s fault, it’s Goering’s, but still. The chasm between theoretical performance and actual performance is much greater than many admit even today.
(DIR) Post #AX8NcTr4Ml17ft8qK8 by Consoomer88@poa.st
2023-06-28T01:04:28.245064Z
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@WashedOutGundamPilot That’s true of every high performance aircraft to a degree, a competent pilot will always extract more performance.The 109 simply had more performance to extract than anything else from its era. The Emil and Friedrich were quite simply the most lethal fighter aircraft in the world in their day. A novice pilot in a 109 fighting a novice in a spitfire could utterly and totally dictate the parameters of the fight in a freijagd situation. And at that time there was a training regime to match such a demanding aircraft, but high performance aircraft are often dangerous for various reasons-Me262 and Komet come to mind.
(DIR) Post #AX8SgiHx8yNvMvYP0S by hogankhan@poa.st
2023-06-28T00:16:53.941717Z
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@WashedOutGundamPilot @troubledturtle @Paultron Like I said, I know nothing of engineering tanks or planes, it is just what I heard