Post AWyLcESUyuswNI84Qa by lednabm@c.im
(DIR) More posts by lednabm@c.im
(DIR) Post #AWyLVJ7PG46ondxfUW by emilygorcenski@indieweb.social
2023-06-22T23:46:17Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
It turns out, actual engineering is a lot harder than software engineering, and this is something you should keep in mind as people start to claim ChatGPT can do a better job.https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/22/23770260/titanic-tour-titan-submersible-catastrophic-implosion-oceangate
(DIR) Post #AWyLVJnwhu8WvZrdnU by emilygorcenski@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T01:01:39Z
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I’m not going to exhume the old ridiculous debates over the word “engineer,” but I am going to say this. I studied aeronautical and mechanical engineering and computational mathematics in university, worked as an aeronautical engineer for several years, and have also worked in software for many years.
(DIR) Post #AWyLVKbZjNprPV5H9c by emilygorcenski@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T01:01:40Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
Nothing, no single thing I have done in the entirety of my career in software has matched the difficulty or rigor of my third year coursework in my aero program, which was less complex than what I did professionally.The only aspect of software development that came close was safety critical software, which unsurprisingly follows standards that emerge from electrical engineer practices.Modern software development lacks the rigor, depth, and complexity of physical engineering.
(DIR) Post #AWyLVMDBl1W6ORgpQ8 by emilygorcenski@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T01:01:40Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
This is not a flex.This is saying that the management practices and work culture that we have developed for software development, which are perfectly suited for that space, are equally in magnitude unsuited for designing physical systems.Every aspect, from testing to user experience to documentation and more.
(DIR) Post #AWyLVNrHdRBPV5SMYS by emilygorcenski@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T01:01:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
It’s sad, because the former billionaire CEO of OceanGate had more than enough capital to do it the right way. But today’s billionaires pull themselves up by moving fast, eschewing rigor and expertise, and discarding all of the cultural philosophies required to make an engineering team work right.Doing things rigorously doesn’t earn you the big gains today’s billionaires seek. This sub design was simply virtue signaling to other billionaires.
(DIR) Post #AWyLVPfetd4Z7c26iG by emilygorcenski@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T01:06:17Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
In Engineering school, regardless of your discipline, you’ll be taught about the time someone fucked up and killed people. Software has these studies, too, but far fewer of them, and the culture of the field is completely opposite from what we see in other fields.Every so often I talk about THERAC-25 and ask if people know about it. A lot of people do, and the response is usually something like, “oh yeah the software was bad.”The mindset is that it was lack of competence, not lack of care.
(DIR) Post #AWyLVRYzrMvqzWvobg by emilygorcenski@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T01:09:09Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
This I find troubling because it presumes that defects can be resolved through sheer skill, despite the fact that the software industry’s own research shows this not to be the case. Nevertheless, the myth persists.You bring this mindset into building a submarine and people are going to die.
(DIR) Post #AWyLVTP90yEuhYKyWm by emilygorcenski@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T01:12:28Z
4 likes, 7 repeats
When you learn about engineering failures in school you quickly understand that it’s not that people were unintelligent, it’s because they were careless. And good engineering practice builds layers to make sure that carelessness doesn’t propagate.The rigor of engineering is not the technical complexity of the problem space, it’s everything else around it.In other words, literally everything the silicon valley grindset devalues.
(DIR) Post #AWyLVV9GWyj66svK3U by emilygorcenski@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T01:40:01Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
Addendum: not every engineer works building safety critical systems but almost every engineer is educated to do so. On the other hand, few software programs have this in the curriculum and it’s very easy to work in software without a related degree or even no degree at all. This is a meaningful difference.
(DIR) Post #AWyLcESUyuswNI84Qa by lednabm@c.im
2023-06-23T01:58:20Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@emilygorcenski As an engineer, I agree completely. 👍
(DIR) Post #AWyLubRqFK8Kt5a82K by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-06-23T04:58:13.236206Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lednabm @emilygorcenski Not only is it right, but it's also stated cleanly and with proper consideration to people in other fields. It is an excellent set of posts.
(DIR) Post #AWyMO5I8MsX9qL6BhA by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-06-23T05:03:32.875228Z
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@lednabm @emilygorcenski (I would of course point out that there are flavors of software engineering that are more difficult than the engineering of physical systems, but these typically involve specialists who have a strong understanding of some underlying physical system, and not generalists.)
(DIR) Post #AWyNr3180E7V8qWFDU by demitasse@pleroma.narrativerry.xyz
2023-06-23T05:19:58.588150Z
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@emilygorcenski you realize that shit didn't happen and was fake right? That was a lot of words to simply admit you are retarded
(DIR) Post #AWyqBDazBCa8SShJia by FourOh-LLC@pkteerium.xyz
2023-06-23T10:37:20.672632Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Well, there are "engineers" and there are designers, and architects, and other authoritative entities.Engineering is not "authoritative", engineering is to create functional systems out of already existing things. Yes, successful "hacking" attempts are good "engineering".For example, battery-based electric vehicles were not created by "engineers", they were created by morons. Engineers would never try to "store electricity".
(DIR) Post #AWzHYTLVU41ajIlpB2 by pthenq1@mastodon.la
2023-06-23T15:44:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@emilygorcenski No lo certificaron...
(DIR) Post #AX2Y0OZT0mIqlnW5JY by stefanieschulte@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-23T11:40:04Z
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@emilygorcenski This also reminds me of the media hype around George Hotz when he presented his self-driving car software in 2015. Many people argued: Of course he can do this, he has hacked video games before, and video games use tech similar to self-driving cars... That always confused me: Writing exploits for something isn't the same as creating it (isn't that obvious?), and games are different from real life. Yet the general mindset seemed to be: It's only "red tape" that's holding him back.
(DIR) Post #AX4bQtv4FqoFlNXpWi by publius@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-06-26T05:20:20Z
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@22 @emilygorcenski My irritation with Wayne here is that he starts out by saying that "nobody can really define what engineering is". I came up in five minutes with a definition which I suspect most engineers would accept."Engineering is the systematic application, guided by experience and principles derived from experience, of scientific and practical knowledge to providing technical solutions to problems which arise in human life."
(DIR) Post #AX4biY0YSZEb1CWexs by emilygorcenski@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T01:41:54Z
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@zens i’d disagree with this. Most every test pilot i know has been above all else a scientist at heart and extremely diligent and rational. You don’t pass test pilot school very often being a cowboy.
(DIR) Post #AX4biYfK0zqP3dbDVY by publius@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-06-26T05:23:32Z
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@emilygorcenski @zens Nevil Shute, otherwise known as aeronautical engineer N S Norway, in his memoir "Slide Rule", talks a little about this. From his point of view as the fellow designing the plane, he wanted a test pilot who would survive to bring back information, not one who pushed the aircraft past its limits!
(DIR) Post #AX4cEBkQl27fFM4UE4 by glipari@social.sciences.re
2023-06-23T06:16:53Z
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@emilygorcenski I think at the end the real difference is "safety critical" vs. "non safety critical". You don't need SC methodology to build a social network, as nobody is going to die in the case of a bug, and it would cost too much to apply SC methods to videogames. On the other hand, SC sw for avionics has similar engineering practices as avionics engineering, and rightly so.
(DIR) Post #AX4cECih8yKQGGGc9w by siderea@universeodon.com
2023-06-23T06:30:50Z
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@glipari>You don't need SC methodology to build a social network, as nobody is going to die in the case of a bugSo about that time Google pushed to prod something that changed the exposure of users' contacts list in a way that jeopardized stalking victims....Right there. You're demonstrating the very problem. The insouciant attitude of tech bros: "eh, what's the worst that could happen?" @emilygorcenski
(DIR) Post #AX4cEDj5P0EfNlSRPM by ollybenson@social.coop
2023-06-23T08:29:58Z
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@siderea @glipari @emilygorcenski Every computer science student should be made to study the Post Office Scandal, the UK's biggest miscarriage of justice, which at it's heart is down to bad code...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56718036
(DIR) Post #AX4cEEgzoG9qNZUHmy by vy@sciencemastodon.com
2023-06-23T11:07:35Z
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@ollybenson @siderea @glipari @emilygorcenski it was caused by bad management and terrible unjust courts, not bad code
(DIR) Post #AX4cEFtRLThq6SJjpA by siderea@universeodon.com
2023-06-23T11:24:59Z
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@vyIt's amazing how tightly coupled bad management and bad code can be.This exact sort of thing, by the way, is precisely what caused actual engineering to professionalize a hundred years ago: high profile engineering disasters due to management making terrible decisions to cut corners, pressuring engineers to perform and tolerate bad work, led to the realization that something had to be done to strengthen engineers' ability to resist being pressured by employers into doing things that threatened public safety. @ollybenson @glipari @emilygorcenski
(DIR) Post #AX4cEGewUrhgTmXfrk by publius@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-06-26T05:29:12Z
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@siderea @vy @ollybenson @glipari @emilygorcenski A friend of mine is a mechanical engineer from Canada.He wears an iron ring on the smallest finger of his right hand ― the one he holds his pen with.Those rings are made (or were originally) from the scrap of the collapsed Quebec City bridge, and the idea is that the ring is constantly in your field of vision when you're working, reminding you that a man's life may rest on the next line you draw.
(DIR) Post #AXXNmFGBwaDZYBt08O by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-07-10T02:33:56Z
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@emilygorcenski> In other words, literally everything the silicon valley grindset devaluesAbsolutely. The SV approach to software (I won't call what they do engineering, even with scare quotes) can be summed in one nifty slogan;Partial prototypes put into production permanently, pending proper processes.@clarfonthey