Post AWws8fOLBo0VOCm3zk by hpk@chaos.social
(DIR) More posts by hpk@chaos.social
(DIR) Post #AWws8fOLBo0VOCm3zk by hpk@chaos.social
2023-06-21T23:22:53Z
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Meanwhile EU borders kill people on a daily basis. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/21/dozens-of-people-drown-after-dinghy-sinks-near-canary-islandsStill remember how in school I learned about the west/east Germany border where around 140 people were killed in 28 years and it was considered a very evil thing (I grew up in the west). Many times more died just in June 2023 on EU borders. The EU border is orders of magnitude deadlier than the Berlin wall.
(DIR) Post #AWws8gByDHhps7zhLs by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-22T11:49:33.049003Z
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@hpk Just to clarify one geographical aspect about the “deadly EU border”…
(DIR) Post #AWxDNoS9sYmosHci6y by hpk@chaos.social
2023-06-22T15:38:45Z
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@kravietz i guess you know that canary islands are formally part of the EU even if they are geographically part of Africa? So i am not quite sure what you want to say with this note.
(DIR) Post #AWxDNp4nYth8o7hZL6 by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-22T15:47:39.875394Z
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@hpk What I’m trying to say is that it’s quite manipulative to speak of “deadly EU border” in the context of Canary Islands which are, as you literally said, “formally part of the EU even if they are geographically part of Africa”.It’s equally manipulative when you say people “died on EU borders” when the accident happened 141 km from the Canaries, so literally in the middle of the ocean. It’s not the “EU border” that is deadly here, it’s the Atlantic ocean and organized crime groups that send people into the ocean in inflatable boats. And it’s also disrespectful to compare these accidents to the people killed on the Eastern Bloc border: they were literally shot at short distance in their backs by the communist border force.
(DIR) Post #AWxF9wYd9N2drdAIAC by hpk@chaos.social
2023-06-22T15:57:29Z
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@kravietz you make it sound like people just randomly and inexplicably die because of weird choices to cross the ocean. The EU causes unsafe routes e.g. by liability-rules for airlines, see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Why_Boat_Refugees_Don%27t_Fly!_-_Factpod_16.webm and moreover illegal pushbacks by police are not that different from getting shot in the back , except they kill a lot more people at once usually and you don't find bullets but maybe just corpses on the beach.
(DIR) Post #AWxF9xCgkR5HrruHbM by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-22T16:07:31.459156Z
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@hpk I don’t dispute illegality of pushback. I do dispute your notion of “formal” EU border being “deadly” because people drowned 140 km from Canaries.People die because they are being lured into inflatable boats by organized crime groups who charge them thousands of dollars for such trip. In the same way on the Eastern border of EU, in Poland, people continue to drown in swamps when they are get lost in forest on the Belarus side of the border, after they pay thousands of dollars for Belarus visa and flight into Minsk.In both cases, the primary guilt lies on the organised crime that manages these human trafficking routes.And NGOs who enable these routes by picking up people from boats just after passing into international waters, and then provide them with a hike for the next hundreds of kilometers are complicit in this trafficking too.Because what happens next is these people lives are turned into slavery by the same trafficking groups who take away their passports and invent additional fees in order to forcibly employ them in brothels etc.
(DIR) Post #AWxHGkvOzy4pimBzbk by hpk@chaos.social
2023-06-22T16:09:59Z
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@kravietz did you listen to the link https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Why_Boat_Refugees_Don%27t_Fly!_-_Factpod_16.webm which discusses an EU directive effectively prohibiting air lines from transporting refugees which is the major reason people use unsafe boat routes?
(DIR) Post #AWxHGlZoZiP3k76GbA by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-22T16:31:19.624770Z
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@hpk Didn’t have a chance to listen to it before, will listen now.
(DIR) Post #AWxIMQI8j1rPQ65sxc by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-22T16:42:11.798341Z
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@hpk I very much respected Hans Rosling but I disagree with him here. I’m not aware of any country in the world where airline would let you board a plane without checking the required documents. Even Belarus does that, although for them the sales of visas are just another source of income and they then immediately push people into the forest at the border.