Post AWvLMyVzP0qcKHf0Pg by chfkch@ruhr.social
(DIR) More posts by chfkch@ruhr.social
(DIR) Post #AWtbaPEOaqfttrwBay by louis@emacs.ch
2023-06-20T22:00:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
On a personal note, as the admin of Emacs.ch, I would like to take this opportunity to inform you about the current dispute between our instance and the administrators of the babka.social instance.I'm only doing this because the admins of babka.social decided to post about it publicly and use the hashtag #Fediblock for it. This is despite the fact that I worked with their moderator for most of this Sunday and we maintained a cooperative style.The gist of it is that a user of the instance babka.social with the description "Social Media for Jews and Jewish Allies" took offense to various posts by our users (let's call them X). A report was sent to us. While I have already contacted X, I was personally messaged by several admins of their instance in a very short frequency. They were shocked that the user account on our instance "still existed".A whole series of accusations was launched (10 to be precise) and I was asked to shut down X immediately.I then proposed to open a joint working document where we could document the series of allegations, the user's post history, and the facts gathered together, and then discuss in a transparent Q&A what specific steps to take. In the meantime, I have been in contact with X, who has assured me of his full cooperation. X did not delete any posts, unlike the users of babka.social.After the moderation session was over, it became apparent that an part of the accusations could not be fully substantiated. Nevertheless, there were grounds for complaint. X used a choice of words to take offense at. Especially when you can no longer see the context of the entire conversation, which was partially deleted by its users in some cases.(1/4)
(DIR) Post #AWtbdZ9CBKyVWV0nhY by louis@emacs.ch
2023-06-20T22:00:32Z
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While I transparently agreed with these accusations, the following demands were made babka.social:that X no longer interact with users of the instance. They blocked X on their side already, but demanded we made sure there is no way for X to continue to interactX is not allowed to reference posts from their instance anymoreX is not allowed to do 1 and 2 even from other instancesI have forwarded these requests to X and also informed them that I think they made a mistake with these posts and violated at least one of our server rules. The moderator of babka.social then added the following:X is free to "keep his opinion" but they are not allowed to express it in the context of babka.socialif X violates these conditions, whether by using their Emacs.ch account nor any other instance then Emacs.ch will be held responsible for itif the conditions are met, then babka.socialwould be 100% satisfiedIn consultation and agreement with their moderator, I then defederated Emacs.ch from babka.social. I asked them if that was ok beforehand. To make sure that the requirements can be met. Since there were no followers on either side, this should not be a big problem.Less than 24 hours later and without warning, severe accusations against me as admin the of Emacs.ch were then published by the moderators of babka.social using the Fediblock hashtag. I would provide a platform for antisemitism and would do "nothing" about our users X misconduct. That, after a full eight hours of work on this. Yes, it is uncomfortable when you are an uninvolved admin being dragged into a politically charged argument. It's hard when you're not competent about the content of the posts to come to a qualified judgment. This is an argument between users who all identify as Jews.(2/4)
(DIR) Post #AWtbdZsvRJYRoKPJyq by louis@emacs.ch
2023-06-20T22:00:44Z
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Now I am in a conflict myself. Execute Option 1: "delete" the online existence of an active, friendly and helpful user of the first hour from our instance, who has been cooperative and complied with the requirements from the first minute? Or option 2: do I give the user a chance to use his words more consciously in the future and to think more intensively about the consequences of his posts? Is Emacs.ch an instance only for techno-nerds or are we a place where knowledge, thoughts and ideas can be exchanged with passion, kindness and mutual respect? Should we be allowed to post only about Emacs packages and Lisp parens, or should LGBTQ+ topics, Bible verses, or political discussions between Jews of different branches also be allowed?For me, Option 1 would have been the easier one. Far easier. One click and a friendly message to X would have been enough to "get rid" of the problem and be a good Fedivese citizen again. I chose option 2 because I think everyone deserves a second chance and we humans can grow together only in mutual exchange and not in mutual silencing. But after the continuous hate posts, threats and accusations that I now receive by the minute (yes, even my daughters (!) have already been brought into play by name), I am no longer so sure.(3/4)
(DIR) Post #AWtbeLGzFfjCmZ1hVg by louis@emacs.ch
2023-06-20T22:00:56Z
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I am not a "free speech extremist", I'm the exact opposite. Anyone who has interacted with me and our server rules, which I have worked out transparently with the users of our instance, knows that. Free Speech stops where harm is done. Emacs.ch is not a Free Speech instance. But Emacs.ch is not a Cancel Culture instance either. The golden mean has to be found.It was my wish and my endeavor to enable us to find this golden mean. At this moment and at this minute, however, I regret that this is my attitude. I have rarely been so perplexed about something that I took for granted.Now I'm just tired. That's because I have to endure all of this from home. alone in front of this screen. Because I'm not one of those who practice "Noisy is Better". Because I believe that one should answer for one's own mistakes and because no one in my personal environment would have any understanding of why one should not immediately comply with the demand of Jews to cancel another Jew.I am sorry that you have to read this and I understand if you are alienated. I also understand if you no longer want to see Emacs.ch as your Fediverse home. If that's the case, I'm sincerely sorry.(4/4)
(DIR) Post #AWtcxOZ9Kh1WS3Aexs by aRubes@tooot.im
2023-06-20T22:15:35Z
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@louis you did right, as far as I am concerend. What does it mean to make sure that X can not interact? If they blocked him then he can not interact with their entire server by definition.
(DIR) Post #AWtdxQdjinv0q0td4a by redfish@emacs.ch
2023-06-20T22:26:47Z
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@louisThat list of demands is bullshit, I don't see any reason to acquiesce to it (disclaimer: l'm pretty sure I know who X is and agree with the general thrust of their critical posts, but the demands would be bullshit even if I didn't)
(DIR) Post #AWtelCjngSPsCTT2y8 by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-06-20T22:35:48Z
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@redfish @louis Sorry you have to go through this Louis, this clearly is a stressful situation.It's none of my business, but remember that you don't have to interact with annoying people. It's ok to tell people making insane demands to bug off and to block them and their instance. You can never satisfy tyrants, no matter how much you try to bow down to them.I would also add that there is a reason so many places have a "no politics, no religion" rule.
(DIR) Post #AWtfGDzZ4Qdh4EdI1I by SequentialDesign@emacs.ch
2023-06-20T22:41:23Z
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@louis you have been fair. I'm sorry this happened to you. I love that people here can have opinions and that it's not an echo chamber. we all have different interests and views. I'm sure this is not an easy place to moderate. I hope others will see that.
(DIR) Post #AWtgJYsBzWm8eTL6Rs by jeff@federated.fun
2023-06-20T22:32:03.846509Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@louis something to keep in mind, in my personal experience the vast majority of fediblock style nuke from orbit moderated servers are not only lacking in communication but struggling with an ever creeping influence of bad faith agent provocateurs that rival servers like poast in shitbombing others. the main difference is they don't bomb people's timelines with antisemitism they bomb the report channels with spam and bad faith reports clipped to confirm bias of naive and easily spooked over worked moderators.
(DIR) Post #AWtgSQhvihMnvulfoO by lina@eientei.org
2023-06-20T22:54:42.767520Z
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@louis i would say you just wasted a whole bunch of words instead of calling them disgusting filthy talmudic kikes, but you're an em*cs fanboyuse a real text editor like nano instead of that bloatware, wimp
(DIR) Post #AWtggIo1tXF7TsEgiW by errante@rot.gives
2023-06-20T22:54:33.557803Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@lina @louis USE NOTPAD NOTPAD #1THE BEST EDITORTHE ONLY EDITOR WITH A FEMBOY MASCOT #!/usr/bin/env wish# This code is licensed under the Eris Public License# Viewing, execution or use of this code is forbidden under any circumstances by any means for any purposes.# run: notpad $(which notpad)# 50lset status " Notpad "font create Mono -family "Tahoma" -size 11grid [frame .bar] -sticky w# ----grid [label .bar.status -textvariable status -font Mono -width 8 -bd 1] -column 0 -row 0 -sticky w -padx 5 grid [text .bar.file -font Mono -undo 1 -relief flat -highlightthickness 1 -insertunfocussed none -selectbackground pink -bd 1 -wrap none -maxundo 0 -height 1 -width 50 -autoseparators 1] -column 1 -row 0 -sticky w# ----grid [text .area -font Mono -undo 1 -relief flat -highlightthickness 1 -insertunfocussed none -selectbackground pink -bd 1 -wrap word -maxundo 0 -tabs "[expr {4 * [font measure Mono 0]}] left" -tabstyle wordprocessor] -column 0 -row 1 -padx 5 -sticky nswe -pady {0 5}grid rowconfigure . 1 -weight 1grid columnconfigure . 0 -weight 1set fb {}proc opene {f} {if [file exists $f] {.area replace 0.0 end [read [open $f r]]};.bar.file edit modified 0; .area edit modified 0}proc savee {f} {if {$f ne ""} {set ff [open $f w]; puts -nonewline $ff [.area get 0.0 end];close $ff} else {error "need name"}}if {$argc == 1} { set file $argv .bar.file replace 0.0 end $file opene $file}bind . <Control-BackSpace> {catch {%W delete "[%W search -backwards -re {\S} {insert wordstart}] wordstart" insert}}bind . <Control-a> {%W tag add sel 1.0 end}bind .area <Control-k> {set r [%W tag ranges sel]; if {$r eq ""} {clipboard clear; clipboard append [%W get insert {insert lineend}]; %W delete insert {insert lineend}} else {clipboard clear; clipboard append [%W get {*}$r];%W delete {*}$r};break} bind . <Control-s> {if {[catch {savee [.bar.file get 0.0 end-1c]}]} {set status "write error"} else {set status " Notpad "};.bar.file edit modified 0; .area edit modified 0}# Tabs!bind .area <Tab> {.area insert insert " ";break}bind .area <Return> {.area insert insert "\n";catch {.area insert insert [string repeat " " [lindex [split [.area search -re {\S} {insert-1l linestart}] .] 1]]};break}bind .area <Control-f> {set r [.area tag ranges sel] if {$r eq "" && $fb eq ""} {set status "find empty";break} if {$r eq ""} {selection clear set n [.area search -count m $fb insert] .area tag add sel $n "$n + $m c" .area mark set insert "$n + $m c" .area see insert;break} if {$r ne "" && $fb eq ""} {set fb [.area get {*}$r];break} if {[.area get {*}$r] ne $fb} {set fb [.area get {*}$r];break} selection clear set n [.area search -count m $fb insert] .area tag add sel $n "$n + $m c" .area mark set insert "$n + $m c" .area see insert break}bind .area <Escape> {focus .bar.file}bind .bar.file <Escape> {focus .area}bind .bar.file <Return> {opene [.bar.file get 0.0 end-1c];break}proc vif {c t {f false}} {if $c {return $t} else {return $f}}proc equ {x y} {vif "{$x} eq {$y}" true false}proc goto {loc} {.area mark set insert $loc; .area see insert}proc mario {str} { switch -re $str { {#\s*} {mario [string trimleft $str "# "]} {sh:.*} {.area insert insert [exec sh -c [string cat [string range $str 3 end] ";:"] 2>@1]} {run:.*} {exec sh -c [string range $str 4 end] &; return} {[kK]:.*} {mario [string cat {sh:printf '%s\n\\\\\n' '} [string range $str 2 end] {'| k}]} [0-9][0-9][Ll] {goto [string cat [string range $str 0 end-1] .0]} {=> gemini://.*} {mario [string range $str 3 end]} {gemini://.*} {.area edit separator;.area replace 0.0 end "";mario "sh: gemget -o - $str -qi";goto 0.0 lmap x [.area search -all -re {=> (?!gemini|http|https)} 0.0] {puts $str;if {[string match [.area get $x+3c] "/"]} {.area insert $x+3c [string range $str 0 [lindex [lsearch -all -exact $str /] 2]]} else {.area insert $x+3c [string trimleft $str /]}}} {tcl:.*} {.area insert insert [eval [string range $str 4 end]]} {bible:.*} {mario [string cat {sh:} [string replace $str 5 5 " "]]} default: {clipboard clear; clipboard append $str} }}bind .area <Button-3> {set r [.area tag ranges sel];catch {mario [.area get {*}$r]}}bind .area <Shift-Return> {set a [.area get {insert linestart} {insert lineend}];goto {insert lineend};.area insert insert "\n";mario $a}bind . <<Modified>> {if {[.bar.file edit modified]||[.area edit modified]} {set status {[Notpad]}}} #bind . <Button-2> {.area insert insert [selection get -type UTF8_STRING];break} # This is reserved for Tk 8.7. It will allow forward and backward searching using the mouse buttons.#bind .area <Button-7> {set r [.area tag ranges sel]# if {$r eq "" && $fb eq ""} {set status "find empty";break}# if {$r ne "" && $fb eq ""} {set fb [.area get {*}$r];break}# if {[.area get {*}$r] ne $fb} {set fb [.area get {*}$r];break}# selection clear# set n [.area search -backwards -count m $fb insert]# .area tag add sel $n "$n + $m c"# .area mark set insert "$n + $m c"# break}#bind .area <Button-8> {set r [.area tag ranges sel]# if {$r eq "" && $fb eq ""} {set status "find empty";break}# if {$r ne "" && $fb eq ""} {set fb [.area get {*}$r];break}# if {[.area get {*}$r] ne $fb} {set fb [.area get {*}$r];break}# selection clear# set n [.area search -count m $fb insert]# .area tag add sel $n "$n + $m c"# .area mark set insert "$n + $m c"# break}
(DIR) Post #AWtgnSmzAyE0TDA7jU by lina@eientei.org
2023-06-20T22:58:31.139608Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@errante @louis i hate fags but louis would suck notpad mascot's cock because he loves feminine penis, all emacs users love feminine penis
(DIR) Post #AWtgs6YPGzggxOYXzc by errante@rot.gives
2023-06-20T22:56:37.289539Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@lina @louis i love feminine penis but im not an emancs user
(DIR) Post #AWtgxSTxAjOUPj1g92 by lina@eientei.org
2023-06-20T23:00:24.967683Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@errante @louis not all feminine penis suckers are emacs users but all emacs users are feminine penis suckers
(DIR) Post #AWtgxoZj1x5CvztbCC by Kirino@nicecrew.digital
2023-06-20T22:53:41.585110Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I'm going to hack into your motherfucking account and leak your nudes bitch! Motherfucking idleton!
(DIR) Post #AWtgxpI2NCWp9QczGS by brimshae@poa.st
2023-06-20T23:00:32.496395Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis @Kirino @louis How are you going to get him to install a Minecraft mod?
(DIR) Post #AWtuMglaUzHzMNdSca by randomphrase@emacs.ch
2023-06-21T01:30:37Z
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@louis Wow, that's quite a story and it sounds like you are interacting with some people who aren't entirely acting in good faith. As an emacs.ch user I appreciate both your significant effort and the transparency. I hope it comes to a quick conclusion.
(DIR) Post #AWtyOfcG9A3uBhTMNk by craigbro@emacs.ch
2023-06-21T02:15:49Z
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@louis That sounds horrible, and I appreciate that you took your time and energy and tried to approach it as you saw best. You can't keep everyone happy, nor should you try.Perhaps there are ways some of this burden of being a responsible admin can be shared?
(DIR) Post #AWtyTNKHZlBQuVJ7tw by craigbro@emacs.ch
2023-06-21T02:16:43Z
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@louis That sounds horrible, and I appreciate that you took your time and energy and tried to approach it as you saw best. You can't keep everyone happy, nor should you try.Perhaps there are ways some of this burden of being a responsible admin can be shared?
(DIR) Post #AWu0kPciUHScrnBJbc by yeti@emacs.ch
2023-06-21T02:42:09Z
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@louisWhy is that a problem between an instance and one user? Doesn't everyone have individual muting/blocking superpowers? Everyone feeling offended can solve the problem with few own mouse clicks.What am I missing?
(DIR) Post #AWu1XpEu2KzGVDbYsS by petersuina@emacs.ch
2023-06-21T02:51:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis You have done the right thing. They have the right and power to block the user in their own instance and to tell you about the user behavior, but not to criticize you and emacs.ch.You are a pretty good admin.
(DIR) Post #AWu5LrHN1iEBAdJAQq by teoten@social.linux.pizza
2023-06-21T03:33:45Z
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@louis now a days everyone feels offended for anything. There's no pleasing everybody. That's what is really killing free speech. I admire and support your position. It is a pity that you have to endure this. Let us know if we can support you more somehow, and I am sure many will answer that call.
(DIR) Post #AWuKTyGMRZrCSXA8PI by publicvoit@graz.social
2023-06-21T06:23:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis Well done 👍
(DIR) Post #AWuXkHkz24YgxKayqu by oatmeal@emacs.ch
2023-06-21T08:51:55Z
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@louis already told you in private how sorry I am you add to waste your time on this. Honestly, I apologize of behalf of the Jewish people (at least that part who doesn't reside in Brooklyn). This onslaught of lies, inaccuracies, hyperbole, omission of facts (did the 3 recover the toots they've deleted?), is soooooo familiar to me as an Israeli (we've been living with this American import to the occupied territories for years, see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilltop_Youth). The irony is of course that I'm Israeli, and they're not (I'm not even sure if they speak Hebrew). But please bear in mind, this has nothing to do with #antisemitism, it's about politics and an attempt to block any voice outside the narrative acceptable by this group (again, they're not Israeli... I am). It's also ironic that a complaint to the moderator about the dissemination of #Islamophobic content tooted by @baruch and boosted by @serge@babka.social (aka @emacsen) goes unaddressed. Why? I don't see that toot on Baruch's timeline. Might be wrong, but was it removed? I repeat, it was boosted by Serge.
(DIR) Post #AWuZH6pAne6oYmlq5o by nthcdr@emacs.ch
2023-06-21T09:09:01Z
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@louis Ouch, what a story. If anything you invested way to much into trying to resolve the issue. Sure Emacs / vim wars can get heated, but politics and religion sure is where people really show themselves for what they are.
(DIR) Post #AWueo4QxCzQsTMykWe by dmvianna@mastodon.social
2023-06-21T10:11:02Z
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@louis Your server your rules. That’s the whole point of the fediverse.It sounds from your description that you went out of your way to attempt to converge on a mutually satisfactory outcome. And the other side wanted instead to have their goals satisfied in full without taking into account your viewpoint.When my kids have that attitude I sigh, walk away and let us both cool down and come back to our senses.That may take longer with adults. It is the only way though.
(DIR) Post #AWuexiQFtuC96NFdSa by offset___cyan@emacs.ch
2023-06-21T10:12:47Z
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@louis I stand with you. Emacs.ch is awesome, obviously NOT a place for antisemites or such, but one instance of rule-violating behaviour (that, when reading it, wasn't antisemitic at all even if it's grossly misinformed) shouldn't be grounds for excommunication - repeated behaviour is a different problem. Trying to block emacs.ch from the fediverse for giving second chances to users is chronically online, tyrannical, weirdo behaviour, and a huge reason of why I don't like the culture of the wider fediverse in the first place. Block/mute/etc exist for a reason and these instances should use them on users liberally. Not on other instances.
(DIR) Post #AWutwBKGxwWbTgBBey by sachac@emacs.ch
2023-06-21T13:00:13Z
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public@louis@emacs.ch I appreciate the time and emotional energy you put into trying to untangle a tricky emotional situation. People dealing with other people... That's so complicated. =| Going after you (and your kids!) is uncool. I'm sorry you have to deal with that, and I wish things could be better.
(DIR) Post #AWuzdy9jnAUV90x052 by skybert@emacs.ch
2023-06-21T14:04:30Z
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@louis I wish we were neighbours so we could go for a walk, take a pint and talk it over.Feel sorry for you that you have to waste so much good time and energy on these things. You're running emacs.ch for the fun and love for it, making these arguments even harder to take.The world unfair.
(DIR) Post #AWvLMyVzP0qcKHf0Pg by chfkch@ruhr.social
2023-06-21T18:07:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louisI am not on your instance but i subscribed to it. I agree like most other folks, that you described your actions to be professionally and goal-oriented as transparent as possible.Don't take it too harsh, there are always situations which cannot be solved in a civilized manner. Pigeon-Chess, you know...
(DIR) Post #AWxfVqE1yIRJP6dFIW by xuxxux@social.tchncs.de
2023-06-22T21:03:04Z
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@louis . I am sorry that you go through this, yet I applaud that you stand by your beliefs. There surely is a large gray area between discussion and unacceptable speech, and a very personal as well. It likely will not help you, but what babka.socials admin did (publicly accusing and harassing you) *definitely* is not acceptable.
(DIR) Post #AWzV88bPNryCDwXrHM by hl@social.lol
2023-06-23T18:16:10Z
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@louis Thank you for your dedication, I realise that it's a lot of work. Admins and mods are what make any community work, and that's trying in times when most discussions quickly become polarised and people don't take the time, to try and understand different sides and a happy medium 🏆