Post AWt33BKDsU2mm1eIWe by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
(DIR) More posts by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
(DIR) Post #AWsRbFF01rLwVQ1Nj6 by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T08:33:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
(DIR) Post #AWsSXBp0toSqhIUrYW by ThatCrazyDude@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T08:44:09Z
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@FortyTwo guess it depends. If Russia is the Soviet Union, then it's NATO who's encroaching. But then again, if Russia is the Soviet Union, then all the "leave Russia alone, it's not Soviet Union anymore" narrative kinda falls apart, and if it is not, then nobody encroaches on anyone's territory, me thinks.
(DIR) Post #AWsScWWhLbUKMLTPSi by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T08:45:07Z
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@ThatCrazyDude I guess "promise" doesn't mean what it used to mean.
(DIR) Post #AWsSnXVw11hiblMwb2 by ThatCrazyDude@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T08:47:06Z
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@FortyTwo i don't think it even meant much
(DIR) Post #AWsVSP2Gdvhs5s6aWW by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-20T09:16:35.259782Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@FortyTwo When talking about “whose territory” you need to clearly distinguish between what kind of frame of reference you’re using. Russian narratives are very vague and fluid on this aspect: one time they speak about internationally recognised and agreed borders, only to instantly switch to their subjective ideas of “our land” understood in terms of poorly defined moral sentiments. Under this framework basically every inch of land Russia or USSR managed to capture at some period in the past is “ours”, but of course this doesn’t work the other way around, so any land that someone once captured from Russia in the past isn’t “theirs” in Russian narrative. It’s a very childish thinking really and you can only make sense of it if you’re Russian.Speaking from the perspective of #Poland, from legal point of view it’s neither Russia’s nor Soviet Union’s territory. It was invaded by Soviet Union in 1939 and then forcibly held in its zone of influence until 1989 under a threat of armed invasion. As a fully sovereign country after 1989, Poland has every right to join any military alliances it wished, and it did - after watching all the local wars started and fueled by Russia in 1990’s (Abkhazia, Chechnya etc) Poland applied to NATO and was accepted in 1997 along with a number of other Eastern European countries. Once again, speaking from legal point of view, it’s none of fucking Russia’s business what alliances a sovereign country of Poland joins, because it’s the whole point of sovereignty.#Russia understands this perfectly well, because when asked about the amassing of their armed forces on the border of Ukraine in 2021 they simply said the same as I said above: it’s none of nobody’s fucking business if we amass troops on our territory, because it’s our sovereign right. Once again, in their childish thinking it’s their sovereign right but other countries like Poland or Ukraine don’t have this sovereign right.Speaking of actual security risks, Poland never raised any territorial demands against Russia, while Russia frequently voiced various threats against Poland, for example when Poland dared to rename streets in its own towns. Therefore the only “security risk” for Russia from Poland - or #Ukraine for that matter - joining NATO is that it makes Russian invasion on these countries more difficult. And, of course, in Russian childish system of values invading another country is Russia’s sovereign right, but it’s not their right to take any measures possible to prevent that.Russia has its own internationally recognised borders and as long as it stays within these borders nobody is going to breach them (at least, not from the western direction).
(DIR) Post #AWsXfhFMRfrUFPhEh6 by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T09:41:43Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kravietz For example, on February 6, 1990, when Genscher met with British Foreign Minister Douglas Hurd, the British record showed Genscher saying, “The Russians must have some assurance that if, for example, the Polish Government left the Warsaw Pact one day, they would not join NATO the next.”https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early
(DIR) Post #AWsXrjAt6TXlhZLCIC by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T09:43:53Z
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@kravietz in 30 plus years, NATO has continued to push eastward, but this seems to be the first inkling of Russia pushing westward.But I could be wrong.
(DIR) Post #AWsZmUHtE36tzUFFwm by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-20T10:04:59.902277Z
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@FortyTwo Genscher repeated what Russians said they wanted at some point of negotiations. So what? No such declarations were ever placed in any official agreements, which means Russians never insisted on making them binding. As a matter of fact, in 1999 Yeltsin said, while visiting Poland, that he doesn’t see any threat in Poland joining NATO!Funny how people are now cherry-picking alleged promises made to Russians, but forgetting that at the same time Russians also made plenty of promises, such as they just want peaceful cooperation and not going to invade anyone. Shortly after they not only had an armed putsch attempt by KGB to retake power in the country (1991) and shortly after started a number of hybrid wars (Abkhazia) and a hot war in Chechnya. And of course none of today’s Putinverstehers gives any fuck about an immediate threat to all the Eastern European countries that these actions by Russia created to their newly acquired independence because they only care about Russian nationalists being happy 🤷♂️
(DIR) Post #AWsaAU5xaniALO6jwG by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-20T10:09:25.301505Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@FortyTwo You are wrong. NATO never “pushed eastwards”. It was Eastern European countries begging NATO to accept them as we were watching Russian nationalism and imperialism growing back under Putin, and his dogs publicly threatening to re-invade Poland and Baltics when were dared to change fucking street names in our own towns, remove fucking Soviet monuments or dig up bodies of people killed under Soviet occupation and call them victims of Soviet occupation! All of that predates any NATO membership by years. So if someone threatens you, you do whatever you can to prevent the threat, and that’s precisely why everyone who could joined NATO in Eastern Europe.
(DIR) Post #AWsbQzE3iX4lTuKQls by Helgi@101010.pl
2023-06-20T10:19:51Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@kravietz @FortyTwo nevermind war in Chechnia that's their internal affair but backing some separatists that they themselves have created in Georgia or even backing existing separatists in Moldova or Azerbaijan constitutes Direct Military Aggression (UNGA 3314 art. 3, g)) and when they resort to bombing campaign to 'back rebels' like in 2008, that made even Ukraine consider the MAP. Though Merkel and Orban killed the idea. And eventually the invasion started exactly by claiming unmarked Russian troops in Crimea or Dombass are 'rebel separatists'
(DIR) Post #AWsbgbS1sXQ4NYJFwG by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-20T10:26:24.527390Z
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@Helgi Exactly, but I was referring to the pre-NATO period in 1990’s - I know personally people who fought in Abkhazia and Russia supplied both sides with weapons there, the practically started and sustained the war only to then introduce their “peacemakers” into Abkhazia, in the same way they did in Azerbeijan. And then in 1994 in Poland we saw a huge wave of refugees from Chechnya who were talking about the slaughter imposed by Russian troops. @FortyTwo
(DIR) Post #AWsc94Lg224Q6xuba4 by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-06-20T10:31:51.279599Z
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@Helgi @kravietz @FortyTwo There’s a bunch of Russian kids that hate jews.
(DIR) Post #AWscHnMmXZPI33acue by musictraveler@mastodon.online
2023-06-20T10:33:24Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz That is really bullsh*t 🤦🏻♀️ Russia knows very well that the NATO never had any intention to attack RussiaAt the other hand terrorists state Russia has a very long track record of killing/rape/murder/stealing/slavery and destruction in their “brothers” countries 🤷🏻♀️ It’s logic that at a certain moment those life threatened East countries are choosing to join the safe shelter of NATO #DefeatRussiaNow #NATO #Ukraine #RussianTerrorists
(DIR) Post #AWscNgoNp9MVSMJK6q by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T10:34:28Z
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@kravietz cherry picking? It's from the US National Security archives.More on cherry picking... Are there Ukrainian Nazis or not? - https://archive.ph/Z9SpQHave Ukrainians been targeting ethnic Russians or not? - https://tass.com/world/1552099?You hate Russia. No law against it, but something smells funny in Ukraine and I doubt it's all Russia's fault.
(DIR) Post #AWscbCpQ687GWFEz4K by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T10:36:55Z
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@kravietz map doesn't lie. NATO *has* expanded eastward.
(DIR) Post #AWscj5eKfknoZSoXB2 by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-06-20T10:37:10Z
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@kravietz @FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com Tankies going to tank.George Bush was explicit that the USA could not make any promises about NATO not expanding east.The West did everything to work with Russia, it was Russia that started to invade its neighbours, there has been no aggression towards Russia.
(DIR) Post #AWscj9p79bntW3tCXQ by Helgi@101010.pl
2023-06-20T10:30:10Z
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@kravietz @FortyTwo the real problem is those separatists looked fishy. What did Shamil Basayev do in Christian conflict between Georgians, Arminians and Abkhazians? And those neonazi Russian chauvinist Kazaks who consider all those mentioned above 'dirty churkas', they got heavy weapons! So I suspected GRU campaign, with mercs and such. That's just like in Dombass, some Kazak neonazis dig out 300 mm (!!!) rocket systems somewhere and start 'protecting' people who never asked it
(DIR) Post #AWscjASolzYxVCSuQK by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-20T10:37:12.815605Z
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@Helgi Oh, of course they looked fishy! There were a huge number of stakeholders in the war in Abkhazia:Abkhazians, who are Adyghe (North Caucasian) ethnic groups related to CircassiansThe Circassians who joined the war on the side of Abkhazians because they are relatedOther Northern Caucasus ethnic groups such as Chechens who joined the war on the side of Abkhazians for different reasons, including islam and solidarity within Northern CaucasusRussia was of course playing all of these groups. I know Basayev was getting suitcases of cash from Russia, and Russia was not only supplying money and weapons to the Abkhazian side, but also facilitating movement of armed groups from Chechnya into Abkhazia on the territory of Russia. At the same time Russia was selling weapons to Georgia. GRU was likely involved at all of these stages.@FortyTwo
(DIR) Post #AWscmHN9XkhznWIbtA by Helgi@101010.pl
2023-06-20T10:38:55Z
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@JonnyFever @kravietz @FortyTwo then they should start looking at shady figures around Putin. Sanctioned oligarchs often have names such as Friedmann, Abramowitz, Vekselberg and such
(DIR) Post #AWscwS8QNqrA4ZGG2K by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T10:40:42Z
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@musictraveler @kravietz all of the tanks, airplanes, drones, etc sent into Ukraine by NATO countries may say otherwise.
(DIR) Post #AWscwysGewXZc0xJw0 by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-06-20T10:40:52.500689Z
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@Helgi @kravietz @FortyTwo Have you drained your balls into a woman?
(DIR) Post #AWsdGbc2r5gTG7j36u by musictraveler@mastodon.online
2023-06-20T10:44:23Z
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@FortyTwo 🤦🏻♀️What a silly suggestive suggestion you are making with this picture It seems you are russian or you are paid by those russian terrorists🤷🏻♀️It’s extremely clear for normal realistic and not brainwashed people that terrorists State russia is invading the territory of independent Ukraine🇺🇦Until now I have seen no invitation from Ukraine 🇺🇦 given to russia to invade/destroy/rape and murder inside the Ukraine territories 🤷🏻♀️#DefeatRussiaNow #Ukraine ##SupportUkraine
(DIR) Post #AWsdHcMzWe4ltgAPtQ by Helgi@101010.pl
2023-06-20T10:44:35Z
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@JonnyFever @kravietz @FortyTwo yep, why u asking... are u one of those neonazi incels like... wait, not Ted Cruz... the other one! Some alt right clowns that CPAC claim is not true conservatives?
(DIR) Post #AWsdSFwDGcofVkiLmi by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-06-20T10:46:31.636030Z
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@Helgi @kravietz @FortyTwo Get some!https://youtu.be/ib8wlTm3Z3E
(DIR) Post #AWsdnTdxVO9u6EIM2S by Helgi@101010.pl
2023-06-20T10:50:21Z
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@JonnyFever @kravietz @FortyTwo Grognak, from Fallout. But he uses his axe. And a guitar (the "other" axe)
(DIR) Post #AWsdzSq2KCIV4qezWC by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-06-20T10:52:31.729135Z
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@Helgi @kravietz @FortyTwo I have know idea what you’re talking about.Would you like too get fucked by me?
(DIR) Post #AWseKBDr10HOWXg8uG by Helgi@101010.pl
2023-06-20T10:56:15Z
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@JonnyFever @kravietz @FortyTwo I wasn't even talking, to you. Get blocked
(DIR) Post #AWseQp5bhgUBuGzNFg by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-06-20T10:57:28.397100Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Helgi @kravietz @FortyTwo Imagine your face getting punched
(DIR) Post #AWseYcLaxjGUhjBSjI by APPTeOORuzvlGOetVY.verita84@poster.place
2023-06-20T10:58:50.228456Z
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@Helgi @JonnyFever @kravietz @FortyTwo Shut the fuck up nigger
(DIR) Post #AWseYmRHRRkq0Fv8ym by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T10:58:54Z
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@musictraveler wait, Russia is paying people to point out obvious bullshit?Does that mean Ukraine's paying you?It wasn't that long ago that Ukraine was the most corrupt country in Europe. Now everybody only speaks about them in reverential terms.Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe - https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine?Weapons from Ukraine’s war now coming to Africa - https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2022/12/06/weapons-from-ukraines-war-now-coming-to-africa/?Ukraine deputy minister sacked for alleged theft of $400,000 - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/23/ukraine-deputy-minister-sacked-for-alleged-theft-of-400000?
(DIR) Post #AWseg0puJNeCgMt8Yy by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-06-20T11:00:13.092753Z
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@verita84 @Helgi @FortyTwo @kravietz Show fist
(DIR) Post #AWsenclHhiP6KiM6t6 by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-06-20T11:01:35.645451Z
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@Helgi @kravietz @FortyTwo Are you tough?
(DIR) Post #AWser9sH337XtoJHge by APPTeOORuzvlGOetVY.verita84@poster.place
2023-06-20T11:02:13.393053Z
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@JonnyFever @Helgi @kravietz @FortyTwo
(DIR) Post #AWsfCjU5qWnKQHHrl2 by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-06-20T11:06:07.908747Z
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@verita84 @FortyTwo @Helgi @kravietz Make a real fist, nigger
(DIR) Post #AWsfHGkS77qUkO6Olk by graf@poa.st
2023-06-20T11:06:55.778986Z
6 likes, 4 repeats
@verita84 @Helgi @kravietz @JonnyFever @FortyTwo
(DIR) Post #AWsfNjYxtVvLqsoO2K by graf@poa.st
2023-06-20T11:07:58.734919Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@verita84 @Helgi @kravietz @JonnyFever @FortyTwo that woman(?) baleeted it's gone from their mastodon server
(DIR) Post #AWsfSCqEylKbog1avA by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-06-20T11:08:55.697325Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@verita84 @FortyTwo @Helgi @kravietz Wanna hear something cool?
(DIR) Post #AWsfYloXreo81HMUHg by APPTeOORuzvlGOetVY.verita84@poster.place
2023-06-20T11:10:06.519993Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@JonnyFever @Helgi @kravietz @FortyTwo Sure
(DIR) Post #AWsfcJuVYIIUdTqM7c by APPTeOORuzvlGOetVY.verita84@poster.place
2023-06-20T11:10:44.280428Z
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@graf @Helgi @kravietz @JonnyFever @FortyTwo The soy is hilarious
(DIR) Post #AWsfzAuVBFFVNnjrLE by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-06-20T11:14:53.199023Z
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@Helgi @kravietz @FortyTwo hahaFuggin jews
(DIR) Post #AWsg71oesOwRUhkZLU by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-06-20T11:16:18.355073Z
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@verita84 @graf @FortyTwo @Helgi @kravietz Soy = jew
(DIR) Post #AWsgGjJcW3oP0lrHXs by Helgi@101010.pl
2023-06-20T11:18:01Z
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@FortyTwo do you always deliberately confuse England and British Empire? Why don't you pledge allegiance to the King?!
(DIR) Post #AWsgL5G4sJPKDyHGVc by skolima@hachyderm.io
2023-06-20T11:17:55Z
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@kravietz @FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com I'm impressed with how you keep cool and detailed in your responses, but that guy is clearly running a trolling account, so I'm afraid your work here might be misdirected 😅
(DIR) Post #AWsgMuyI5mustopfc0 by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-20T11:18:46.709312Z
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@skolima That’s why I blocked him without much hesitation :)
(DIR) Post #AWsgRUXVnEFAN0UIIi by SchizoCynic@poa.st
2023-06-20T11:19:59.945195Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@graf @verita84 @Helgi @kravietz @JonnyFever @FortyTwo
(DIR) Post #AWshGFaV8vWklb5cNE by Helgi@101010.pl
2023-06-20T11:29:09Z
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@ThatCrazyDude @FortyTwo there's no such international things are 'promises', there's treaties. That Russia violated. And UN charter, that Russia violated too. The likes of Saddam or Gaddafi are destined to hang sooner or later
(DIR) Post #AWshWWJMjULnGdpgFU by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T11:32:03Z
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@FortyTwo
(DIR) Post #AWsho7GwZ9fMp45eRU by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T11:35:16Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz I'm sorry, but this little game of cherry-picking random quotes from THE NEGOTIATION is meaningless compared to THE TREATY THAT WAS ACTUALLY ULTIMATLEY NEGOTIATED AND SIGNED. The Soviets weren't blind morons who couldn't read the actual treaty that was agreed on in the end.And learn what sovereignty means. It means that POLAND, not RUSSIA, decides the fate of Poland. Same for Czechia, Slovakia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithiuania, etc etc etc - and yes, Ukraine as well.
(DIR) Post #AWsi5X71kLS1t3kyvY by smoothbrainmclain@poa.st
2023-06-20T11:38:26.483212Z
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@graf @verita84 @Helgi @kravietz @JonnyFever @FortyTwo
(DIR) Post #AWsiuqfOns2XIpIqdU by ThatCrazyDude@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T11:47:42Z
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@Helgi @FortyTwo funny that you've mentioned the UN. What's real funny about Russia there, is that Russia never applied, leave alone being accepted to the United Nations. All other republics of the former Soviet Union did, but Russia... Nah. And they're even on the security council somehow. Now that's something to pounder about
(DIR) Post #AWsjC8HiYM3oroT4YS by Helgi@101010.pl
2023-06-20T11:50:49Z
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@ThatCrazyDude @FortyTwo you can't even imagine what mess we could find when analyzing founding members. Taiwan (ROC) as China. USSR, Ukraine and Belarus listed separately!! That looked real fun if you ask me! But Putin could keep Turkestan countries, they don't even pretend to be sovereign
(DIR) Post #AWsjPQHsvlniSwsqDQ by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T11:40:33Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz Gorbachev himself, the man who SIGNED THE TREATY on behalf of the USSR, had this to say:https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html"The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either."
(DIR) Post #AWsjPQxMRYygXaHxrc by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T11:53:13Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz Gorbachev has flip-flopped on whether it was brought up or not.All it means, really, is that the word if NATO means nothing.
(DIR) Post #AWsjPS1eT60JrBIuBs by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T11:52:23Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz In the NATO-Russia Founding Act, signed in 2002, both states affirmed, and I quote, "NATO and Russia do not consider each other as adversaries."https://www.nato.int/cps/cn/natohq/official_texts_25468.htmFor a while it even looked like Russia might itself *join* NATO. https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/19/putin-russia-ukraine-nato-george-robertson/Here's Putin in an interview in 2002, asked about the possibility of Russia joining NATO, responding, "I don't see why not":http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/audio_video/programmes/breakfast_with_frost/transcripts/putin5.mar.txt
(DIR) Post #AWsjV9NqgwVRmFP7IW by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T11:54:16Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz seems like you're saying that sovereignty is dependent on whether you can defend it or not.I could be misunderstanding.
(DIR) Post #AWsjZ93Xqpcdv5oP56 by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T11:54:58Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz Gorbachev is not an idiot. You cannot just take random words from random negotiators ***trying to decide what to agree to*** and then pretend that those were the ***actual treaty itself that was ultimately agreed to***. Russia raised no objection to the expansion (their only focus was on ***the basing of troops***), while Bush flatly ruled out Baker's suggestion of prohibiting other states from joining NATO. Hence it was NOT included in the treaty.
(DIR) Post #AWsjuZsrIlk7Co28R6 by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T11:58:49Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz Countries are sovereign. Period. If Poland wants to join NATO and give Russia the middle finger, that's THE RIGHT OF THE POLISH PEOPLE. I'll repeat: POLAND decides who they want to associate with, not RUSSIA.Eastern Europe by and large sees Russia as their former brutal colonial masters who they escaped from. THEIR decision to seek to protect themselves from their (demonstrably) aggressively expansionist neighbor is THEIR CHOICE, and not at all surprising.
(DIR) Post #AWskQYc5YpamX2RF6e by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T12:04:38Z
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@FortyTwo @nafnlaus @kravietz That point was often made by the leftist pro-Kremlin crowd: “You have to take the Russian wishes concerning NATO into account, because they are big and powerful”But making alliances and voluntary cooperation is also defending yourself.
(DIR) Post #AWskRCnU9sTZ9y4uQK by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T11:55:16Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz Again: the Soviets were not blind morons who had no clue what treaty they had just negotiated.
(DIR) Post #AWskUC9B22kc0oeLQ0 by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:00:52Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz Here's Putin when asked about the possibility of the Baltics joining NATO:
(DIR) Post #AWskUE6PlHjI4pNAOG by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:01:55Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz Here's Putin, ***On The Kremlin Website***, in 2002 saying that he doesn't object to UKRAINE JOINING NATO.http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/21598
(DIR) Post #AWskUFyKoISFsLbk4e by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:02:41Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz Want more recent Russian policy? Here's Medyedev in 2010 on the topic of Russia-NATO relations:http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/9570
(DIR) Post #AWskb3YNNgR3O2hyCW by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:06:32Z
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@ThatCrazyDude @FortyTwo This entire narrative is nonsense. Thread:https://fosstodon.org/@nafnlaus/110576449801757172(The last post is linked; scroll up for the thread)
(DIR) Post #AWsknpRh91gROffokC by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:05:22Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz Unlike before, the addition of Finland to NATO actually *did* add a huge amount of border between Russia and NATO. And what was Russia's response once they were finally ratified?Basically "Meh."https://www.aa.com.tr/en/russia-ukraine-war/putin-explains-how-finland-sweden-membership-in-nato-different-from-ukraines/2627019Claiming it's fine because they have no "territorial disputes" like they do with Ukraine. Which is a bald-faced admission that all that matters to him is ***seizing Ukrainian territory*** and not NATO.
(DIR) Post #AWskqeR2XQ8q7JiGWG by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T12:09:21Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz so, wait, you're saying that the eastern expansion agreement was never made, or because it wasn't written down it doesn't count.There's several people, on both sides that has said it was promised. So, I don't think you're saying it was never offered.If you're saying it doesn't count because it wasn't written down somewhere, that just means people won't trust your word. If you'll break a verbal agreement, there's nothing stopping you from breaking a written one.
(DIR) Post #AWsktTOG3itkjMl0ym by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T12:09:52Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz and the alternative Russia had at the time was nuclear war, nobody really wants that.
(DIR) Post #AWsl4lxvKxM5WgpNku by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:11:53Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz "so, wait, you're saying that the eastern expansion agreement was never made"It was not. They were literally negotiating a treaty, and decided not to include it in the treaty."or because it wasn't written down it doesn't count."Because it was REJECTED FROM THE NEGOTIATIONS it doesn't count. For God's sake, this isn't complicated.
(DIR) Post #AWslAHjud5MFWGu1Oi by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:12:54Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz "The alternative" was Russia doing what they always did in the past, putting troops in other people's countries, treating them as colonial subjects who don't get a say in deciding their own fates, and raising a middle finger to anyone who objects.
(DIR) Post #AWslFm3VLJ3GzUgT8i by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T12:13:54Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz you keep saying they're expansionist, but for 30 years their border has shrunk, and the only conflict we're dealing with now is over Ukrainian treatment of ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine on the Russian border.
(DIR) Post #AWslVtqe8awtnCMJvs by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T12:16:48Z
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@useless_idiot @nafnlaus @kravietz correct me if I'm wrong but, Russia doesn't claim that it wants to take over the Ukraine. It's just concerned with the Donbass region and the treatment of, largely, ethnic Russians in that area.Is that wrong?
(DIR) Post #AWslbq8mpo7Q21g0Ia by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:17:52Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz "Their border has shrunk" because during moments of weakness their conquered territories managed to break off and regain their freedom. Russia managed bit by bit to claw them back. Tatarstan, Dagestan, and Ingushetia failed to break off, despite trying. Chechnya succeeded, only to be reconquered. Moscow quickly broke off Transnistria, then later Abkhazia and South Ossetia, then Crimea, then Donetsk and Luhansk, and is currently trying to take Ukraine as a whole.
(DIR) Post #AWslfEjZqyKHAwVLnc by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T12:18:29Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz meh, huh?Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, said that should Sweden and Finland join NATO then Russia would have to strengthen its land, naval and air forces in the Baltic Sea.https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-warns-baltic-nuclear-deployment-if-nato-admits-sweden-finland-2022-04-14/
(DIR) Post #AWslrrVpVDZev35vZw by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:20:45Z
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@FortyTwo @useless_idiot @kravietz Russia literally just invaded to try to conquer Ukraine on a front stretching from Kyiv to Snake Island, including the capitol, and you have the gall to say "Russia doesn't claim it wants to take over [the] Ukraine"? 🤦♀️ There was no "civil war". Those were Russian troops, managing territorial militias. Putin admitted in 2015 it was Russian special forces in Crimea in 2015, while they admitted it in Donbas last year.
(DIR) Post #AWsm85iMT1LVbEh8mO by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T12:23:42Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz According to documents declassified in 2017, the deal essentially was that the Soviets would allow German unification with the written “ironclad guarantees”, that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward”, in the words of James Baker. https://scheerpost.com/2022/02/24/not-one-inch-eastward-how-the-war-in-ukraine-could-have-been-prevented-decades-ago/?You talk about the negotiations like you were there.
(DIR) Post #AWsmLOza6WJx9Y62eu by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:26:05Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz That was A PROPOSAL. How is this difficult for you to understand the difference between a proposal and a treaty? For God's sakes, the references to it are handwritten in chickenscratch.
(DIR) Post #AWsmdkYIgQg7EU5K88 by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:21:49Z
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@FortyTwo @useless_idiot @kravietz This was Ukraine's independence referendum for breaking off from Russia.
(DIR) Post #AWsmdlMzdxEBlhno92 by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:24:32Z
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@FortyTwo @useless_idiot @kravietz 2022 poll in Ukraine. Last bar is the east, second to last bar is the south, both regions that Russia has focused heavily on conquering. Dark red is the pro-Russian position, light-orange "mainly" pro-Russian.
(DIR) Post #AWsmf3tiF8w1WLj4Fc by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:29:07Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz It didn't end up in the treaty because (A) Bush absolutely refused, and (B) the Russians weren't pushing for it. IT was the Russian goal to prevent *troops* from being based in East Germany. And they got what they were seeking.
(DIR) Post #AWsmosQhjeaWqjq05Q by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T12:31:26Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz there's no evidence that they're trying to take over the whole Ukraine.They supposedly backed a war that lasted nearly 8 years, but they've rarely strayed away from the Dombas region until full-scale escalation.Putin claims that Ukraine has Nazis, which there's proof of, and that ethnic Russians have been mistreated, which there's proof of.Ukraine has the right to declare its sovereignty, does the Donbas region? They voted to secede.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_Donetsk_People%27s_Republic_and_the_Luhansk_People%27s_Republic#:~:text=The%20DPR%20and%20LPR%20were,by%20any%20government%20except%20Russia.
(DIR) Post #AWsmuvmICRfuyHp2Ia by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T12:32:32Z
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@nafnlaus @useless_idiot @kravietz [citation needed]
(DIR) Post #AWsnid8Tmj6BdItl8C by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:41:26Z
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@FortyTwo @useless_idiot @kravietz Crimea: Putin outright says it https://news.sky.com/story/putin-comes-clean-on-crimeas-little-green-men-10368423Donbas has been bit by bit. First started awarding soldiers medals for serving in Donbas (back in 2017 if I remember right was the first one, for Debaltseve). 2021 a Russian court found for a caterer who was contracted to provide meals for the Russian army in Donbas. In 2022 they started recognizing it as a service location back to 2014 in military IDs.
(DIR) Post #AWso7u1E9RNjEaYasi by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:46:02Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz "and that ethnic Russians have been mistreated, which there's proof of."I LITERALLY JUST GAVE YOU A POLL, FortyTwo! Quit pretending to be illiterate here."... no evidence that they were trying to take over the whole of Ukraine" - Oh for God's sake...At every location they were stopped by *military force*, with key battles preventing further advance.
(DIR) Post #AWso9rQwjYqnnOWLGi by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T12:46:27Z
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@nafnlaus @useless_idiot @kravietz Nothing in the article you linked states that Putin admitted that he sent Russian soldiers into the Donbas or Ukraine.
(DIR) Post #AWsoARlldctcUOXTii by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-20T12:46:12.934201Z
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@nafnlaus He won’t see me as I’ve blocked him, but numerous Russian obituaries in 2022-2023 mention “army service in Donbass from 2014”. They never made it a secret inside Russia, that was just a show for the external audience.@FortyTwo @useless_idiot
(DIR) Post #AWsobyE74TFGyKvCkq by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:48:56Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz "Putin claims that Ukraine has Nazis"Ukraine has among the WEAKEST far-right movements in all of Europe, and among the HIGHEST acceptance rates for Jews (including 3/4ths of the population voting for a Jew whose family was murdered by the Nazis).It's beyond cynical to present "there exist greater than zero Nazis in Ukraine, a country with an abnormally weak far-right movement" as "Ukraine is a country of Nazis", while Russia itself was *making heavy use of Nazi militias*.
(DIR) Post #AWsogWatEh1YidkNPM by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T12:52:20Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz Nazi Symbols on Ukraine’s Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of Historyhttps://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.htmlGerman TV Shows Nazi Symbols on Helmets of Ukraine Soldiershttps://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/german-tv-shows-nazi-symbols-helmets-ukraine-soldiers-n198961NYT on Ukraine’s Nazi Imagery: It’s ‘Complicated’https://fair.org/home/nyt-on-ukraines-nazi-imagery-its-complicated/
(DIR) Post #AWsoo5DitWAG8bVzua by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:53:41Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz Okay, I've given you enough warnings about pretending to be blind / illiterate. Muting you for being insincere in the conversation.
(DIR) Post #AWsorPDqz2fd2fA0iO by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:51:30Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz Here for example is Alexey Milchakov, founder of the Russich militia which Russia has used heavily in Donbas. Proud unabashed Neo-Nazi (talks about it repeatedly in interviews) who came to fame for murdering puppies on camera. And here he is being given an award by the quisling governor of Crimea for his service. And here's his militia posing with former "DNR" head Borodai.
(DIR) Post #AWsorRB5iHeJ6fspge by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:52:27Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz While Prigozhin runs Wagner today, it was founded by neo-Nazi Dmitri Utkin. Wagner was his callsign, which he chose because Wagner was Hitler's favourite composer.
(DIR) Post #AWsoyQaEK22TI1yWUC by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T12:55:35Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz I'm probably muted but it's about par for the course that opposing information is presented as "pretending to be blind / illiterate"
(DIR) Post #AWspFC7pKXGjN6gWbQ by nafnlaus@fosstodon.org
2023-06-20T12:56:55Z
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@FortyTwo @kravietz For God's sake, this Nazi (Rogozin) is Putin's personal friend who he put first in charge of Roscosmos (which makes Russia's nuclear missiles), then in charge of governing the territories conquered in Ukraine. *Well known* in the Russian white nationalist community for speaking at their rallies.How long does one need to go on?Anyway, you're on mute now for repeatedly ignoring things I've posted and acting like I never said them.
(DIR) Post #AWspOD9EtfXx9Me2ue by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T13:00:14Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz Listen, I've tried to present, linked information to offer an opposing side and show that's, while Russia is not innocent, they're not the bogey man either.You have a hard on for hating Russia and it's clouding your judgement.
(DIR) Post #AWspr8PBbqfiq2tbCS by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T13:05:28Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz Your narrative isn't coherent:* Russia is simultaneously ruthless and expansionary, yet they've lost territory* People should be self-determinant, but not the people of the Donbas region* Ukraine has a nazi problem, b-b-but Russia has one too, and it's worse* You can trust information coming out of Ukraine (polls, votes, etc) *even though* it is one of the most corrupt countries in all of Europe
(DIR) Post #AWsqkwTP9vuy35Tp8y by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T13:15:33Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz Also, just for shits and grins:* The current US President is currently in a scandal involving bribery associated with the Ukraine* Financial aide sent to the Ukraine, by the US, was funneled by the Ukraine through FTX and Sam Bankman Fried to Democrat US politicians* Sam Bankman Fried has just had charges dropped* Financial aide to Ukraine has been embezzled, in the middle of a war, by Ukrainian leaders* Military weaponry donated to Ukraine has turned up on the blk mkt
(DIR) Post #AWsqooWYej2mYMnjNY by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T13:16:15Z
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@nafnlaus @kravietz But Russia is the bogey manYou're a moron.
(DIR) Post #AWstjuagyLpdmd5Zey by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T13:48:59Z
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@FortyTwo @nafnlaus @kravietz Dude, they annexed the regions! That nobody recognizes that and that they aren't able to control them doesn't change anything about their intentions!No "Helping ethnic Russians", whoever they count as those. Everybody is treated like shit there, I talked to the (Russian speaking) victims.
(DIR) Post #AWsuZKRibQuKjzPQHI by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T13:58:17Z
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@FortyTwo @nafnlaus @kravietz The Kremlin has been claiming for months that they had no intention to invade Ukraine before 24 February 2022. Then Putin ordered a full scale invasion of Ukraine. Then for months the Kremlin stated they wanted a.o. to secure the independence of the DPR and LPR. They on 30 September 2022 Putin annexed them. All recent history, all very public. Why would anyone pay any attention to what the Kremlin claims?
(DIR) Post #AWswoEM9j5Ye6d2aFk by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T14:23:21Z
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@useless_idiot @nafnlaus @kravietz Again, I'm not claiming that Russia is innocent in all of this.Ukraine is a corrupt shithole. In the midst of war, they've sold military aide intended for its defense on the black market, they've laundered money intended for their war effort.Also, very recent and public.Why would anyone trust Ukraine as the font of all truth?
(DIR) Post #AWsxhMp3wzb2I4qvqa by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T14:33:20Z
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@FortyTwo @nafnlaus @kravietz You literally said: "Russia doesn't claim that it wants to take over the Ukraine. ", as if that means anything. Making it very clear that you believe what the Kremlin says. What does the corruption of Ukraine (which is mostly caused by Russian meddling, and which the Ukrainians want to get rid of since their independence) have to do with this war? Do you really believe it will get better when Putin's friends are completely in charge?
(DIR) Post #AWsy6JmkNdwc6sfQW0 by AUc34pg7Dq80K0xUzQ.spitfire@poster.place
2023-06-20T14:37:50.257891Z
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@kravietz @Helgi @FortyTwo You're huffing tainted copium.
(DIR) Post #AWsyTw7xzUnjgdr2qO by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-20T10:39:16.492650Z
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@FortyTwo The moment you switch to quoting TASS on unrelated topic, you expose yourself as a Russian troll and I’m just blocking you to save my time.
(DIR) Post #AWsyZqy45TwhQD2orY by pthenq1@mastodon.la
2023-06-20T14:43:10Z
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@kravietz @skolima I learned a lot 😁
(DIR) Post #AWsyryZoXKPOEULK76 by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T14:46:27Z
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@useless_idiot @nafnlaus @kravietz Where does Russia claim that it wants to take over the Ukraine? How can I believe what the Kremlin says when they haven't said it.Ukraine wants to get rid of corruption sooooo bad, that they've laundered financial aide to support their war effort, sold military equipment on the black market intended to defend their homeland...They're liars and crooks and there might be truth to Russia's side of the story.
(DIR) Post #AWsys7hwaTG8YJDRXE by Helgi@101010.pl
2023-06-20T14:43:22Z
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@spitfire @kravietz @FortyTwo Russians just went bankrupt because the oil cost 18 dollars a barrel for 3 decades. They were not in position to demand anything. They just submit to all demands. Then Yeltsin decided Russia quits USSR to save money and the rest followed.
(DIR) Post #AWsys8S1p87erEmFMm by AUc34pg7Dq80K0xUzQ.spitfire@poster.place
2023-06-20T14:46:29.416154Z
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@Helgi @kravietz @FortyTwo That's the copium I was referring to. What's so great about Ukraine anyway, it's not worth one cent of our tax dollars. It's known for prostitution, child trafficking, money laundering and unnatural faggotry. Fuck em.
(DIR) Post #AWsywMlwWHjCQs6qmW by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T14:47:15Z
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@spitfire @Helgi @kravietz That's the crude version of what I've been trying to say...
(DIR) Post #AWszlVdPKU3MgfVJDs by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T14:56:30Z
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@FortyTwo @nafnlaus @kravietz So if it turns out the Bidens are corrupt the Kremlin can bomb the USA?Moscow doesn't try to destroy* the Ukrainians because of corruption. Officially it's because of Denazification (kudos that you didn't fall for that), Protecting LPR/DPR (those people are fleeing over here), and Demilitarization. What do you think the Russian story is?*yes they do, untargeted strikes, the power system, and on the Russian TV, they want to drown the Ukrainian children.
(DIR) Post #AWsznSIghGNKvRjyE4 by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T14:56:51Z
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@Helgi @spitfire @kravietz The west’s tightening of Russian sanctions is a sign of failure - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/21/the-west-tightening-russian-sanctions-a-sign-of-failureA BRICS Currency Could Shake the Dollar’s Dominance - https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/04/24/brics-currency-end-dollar-dominance-united-states-russia-china/bankrupt them harder...
(DIR) Post #AWt0I32eepiNZ3pS6a by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T15:02:23Z
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@useless_idiot @nafnlaus @kravietz out of all of the sovereign countries that border Russia, why target Ukraine?The United Nations estimates more than 2.8 million Ukrainians have taken refuge in Russia over the past year. - https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/europe/ukrainians-russia-far-east-intl-cmd/index.htmlUkraine buying discounted Russian oil to fuel war tanksZelensky has been buying diesel from Russia at a discounted rate to fuel its war against Moscow, as per a US intelligence official. - https://newindian.in/irony-ukraine-purchasing-discounted-russian-oil-to-fuel-war-tanks/The whole thing is a scam.
(DIR) Post #AWt0KlwofaSfPtOfy4 by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T15:02:52Z
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@useless_idiot @nafnlaus @kravietz They can start bombing DC whenever they feel like it.
(DIR) Post #AWt1YwnDFE6T3oECDQ by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T15:16:37Z
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@useless_idiot @nafnlaus @kravietz Ukraine: Ukrainian fighting tactics endanger civiliansresearchers found evidence of Ukrainian forces launching strikes from within populated residential areas as well as basing themselves in civilian buildings in 19 towns and villages in the regionshttps://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/They hide behind women and children.
(DIR) Post #AWt1d2JudTaXMUTNoG by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T15:17:22Z
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@FortyTwo @nafnlaus @kravietz They targeted o
(DIR) Post #AWt1rXkEb3oUsShb9M by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T15:20:00Z
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@FortyTwo @nafnlaus @kravietz Let me guess, you don’t have family there, or you don’t like them.
(DIR) Post #AWt29r67NiiQ70fbKy by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T15:23:19Z
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@FortyTwo @nafnlaus @kravietz They targeted other countries as well. The state TV even suggesting bombing Rotterdam. Did you think the buying fuel thing through? What would you do in that situation? Just surrender?
(DIR) Post #AWt2MO5cXmztuTPfw8 by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T15:25:34Z
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@useless_idiot @nafnlaus @kravietz I'm not defending corruption. When anyone in power thinks that they can engage in violence and escape repercussions they make poor decisions.Like funding a proxy war that doesn't concern them.
(DIR) Post #AWt2PKzaW3uJAkzwRM by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T15:26:07Z
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@FortyTwo @nafnlaus @kravietz Fighting a defensive war on your own soil is hard. But the Ukrainians are learning. Big advantage for t Moscow as they care as much for Hohols as you care for DC-citizens.
(DIR) Post #AWt2pDfuLQpO0V8O5w by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T15:30:47Z
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@useless_idiot @nafnlaus @kravietz Poland, NATO say missile that killed two likely fired by Ukraine - https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/16/europe/poland-missile-russia-ukraine-investigation-wednesday-intl-hnk/index.htmlYeah, I thought, why would you buy fuel from the country you're at war with? It doesn't make any sense.I probably wouldn't sell weapons intended for my country's defense on the black market. I probably wouldn't take financial aide that was intended to support my country's defense and line my pockets.$75 Billion in aid, from the US alone. US stingy on gas?
(DIR) Post #AWt33BKDsU2mm1eIWe by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T15:33:17Z
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@useless_idiot @nafnlaus @kravietz See, this is what I'm talking about.Ukraine does something fucked up? Well, they're doing the best they can.Russia does something fucked up? EVIL! SATAN! LUCIFER! CHILDREN EATERS!Maybe they're both fucked up. Maybe they're both in on it. It screams scam and everybody is whitewashing Ukraine's actions.
(DIR) Post #AWt3BZ8rDBvYxMKZ0K by FortyTwo@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T15:34:49Z
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@useless_idiot @nafnlaus @kravietz BILLIONS of dollars, from the US alone.With a "B". Billions.
(DIR) Post #AWt3v5KSO5zNoXSfsO by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-20T15:43:03Z
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@FortyTwo @nafnlaus @kravietz It is a war. Read some detailed history books. Your lack of knowledge and insight is dull, so I am out.
(DIR) Post #AWt8ynfYUHiPyMvA6C by Helgi@101010.pl
2023-06-20T16:39:44Z
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@FortyTwo @spitfire@poster.place @kravietz but nobody in Ukraine and the Congress and the Statedept really won't give a flying fuck about what u was trying to say bro, so keep spamming
(DIR) Post #AWtC895sV5uot9Nh3Y by AncientGood@qoto.org
2023-06-20T16:06:53Z
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@kravietz “re-invade Poland”, lmao, I can’t wait for them to make a single step on allied country’s territoryThey broke all military teeth on some poor Ukraine (Kiev in 3 days, anyone?), regime about to fall, on every recent videos Putin’s hands are shaking and his voice stuttering, but ok :blobrofl:@FortyTwo
(DIR) Post #AWtC89oBqLMR6a757o by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-06-20T17:14:46.816801Z
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@AncientGood Well, now we know that. Before 2022 most military experts preferred to be on the safe side and assumed at least Russian army is capable of something… But I was talking about the pre-NATO times for Poland.@FortyTwo
(DIR) Post #AWxSNZQBGXr3ZB2af2 by Ahasvera@mstdn.social
2023-06-22T18:07:04Z
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@kravietz Ja, Sie sagen das richtig. Die russische politische technik besteht genau davon was Sie erzählt haben. Hauptsache Bedrohungen, Rache, eine selektive Geschichtsideologie, und Mystifikationen. Es wird immer anderes gedacht mit sehr viel Fantasien.