Post AWsKC1lqH63loGPa0u by boyter@honk.boyter.org
(DIR) More posts by boyter@honk.boyter.org
(DIR) Post #AWqOk8dBHmK8Qtxevw by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-06-19T08:49:59Z
2 likes, 7 repeats
Some fediverse instance admins: “How cool, Meta invited us to the adult table.”Yes, they did.Because you’re what’s for dinner.#fediverse #mastodon #meta #Project92
(DIR) Post #AWqP0N61Gx8hvfBtYG by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2023-06-19T08:55:09.247Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral@mastodon.ar.al Usually when a mobster boss invites you over you should be very scared.
(DIR) Post #AWqZFE4u5ArdqUOHzM by smallcircles@social.coop
2023-06-19T09:14:16Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@aral Hänsel and Gretel, don't go there. Fedi lies beyond!
(DIR) Post #AWqZcHVDW6017ugytk by Bossito@mastodon.green
2023-06-19T10:39:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral I honestly don't see the problem of them joining the fediverse and anyway that's something they can do without permission.. Most people here won't leave for them just because they join, but many more people will be able to see what's going on here, and wasn't that the point?
(DIR) Post #AWqZcI8Z9nTV5x6PEO by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-06-19T10:42:21Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Bossito There is a world of difference between them implementing a protocol and the community that already uses that protocol welcoming them with a red carpet.If you don‘t see a problem, you haven’t been paying attention. Look at what happened to the web. XMPP. Email. Look up embrace, extend, extinguish.None of what we‘re worried about is conjecture. It is based on past experience with the enclosure of the commons by Silicon Valley venture capitalists, startups, and public corporations.
(DIR) Post #AWqhZo6OeeXGztPiuu by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-06-19T12:23:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral I find it odd that they did that tbh. I would think they'd just blunder in and force everyone to conform to their implementation, kind of how #Mastodon has done
(DIR) Post #AWr2kjxmTvHuNpRFuy by internetuserguy@mastodon.social
2023-06-19T13:35:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@aral They will create nodes on the fediverse and then offer money to other nodes who join them, once they get enough pull on the network they will start introducing new "features" and then #EmbraceExtendExtinguish the fediverse. It's a story as old as time now.
(DIR) Post #AWr6nbhG4XzBQlKgbI by martincrownover@mastodon.gamedev.place
2023-06-19T14:21:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral @Bossito I keep seeing people repeating the "embrace, extend, extinguish" line, but I don't see how that applies here.They can't do anything to existing fediverse communities. They can't put ads in our feeds. They can't control the protocol. Their users, if disruptive, can be blocked easily, either by other users or instance admins.I don't use Facebook and I can't stand Meta, but I don't understand how they can inflict damage on our communities. What am I missing?
(DIR) Post #AWr6ncPDR79Dd5tn7I by muppeth@fe.disroot.org
2023-06-19T17:05:52.211097Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@martincrownover @aral @Bossito So imagine scenario. Meta does join in. It's instance on day one is bigger then entire fediverse combined. Their server implementation by extension too. This means unlike now where all other implementations are following mastodon trying to keep up and mastodon being the current king, its now meta being the biggest player. They dont need you to federate with them. Most probably they arent interested and would prefer if you dont (My guess is they are trying to figure a way out how to show there is interoperability so they cant be sued for monopolistic actions or something). So meta does not have much interest to follow you, but you (as in instance, user, current fedi) would like to be able to reachout to those millions of people on the other side. So actually you want to federate with them.And so, its not anymore mastodon the king but Meta. Sure they dont need to start with big things breaking the federation or doing evil shit like like putting ads (no worries this takes time and they have enough money to burn). It could be fun innocent features art first that people want to have (dont know eg. reply with gif or some filters, anything). Devs in order to provide similar features will try to implement on their projects to stay compatible. Thats how you gain upper hand. Then when you push more evil feature, people will star justifying it to not loose the connection to large userbase they created bond with. This will go on, slowly piece by piece until either you implement some crazy federation breaking stuff from meta or stay outside of the network. This can easily lead to more instances/people staying on meta's side then before meta joining. This will create a lot of discussions, forks, fights result of which will be that we will need to basically start over. I think there isn't much to gain from this and a lot to loose. Lets keep the mainstream big tech platforms where they are. In the other universe.
(DIR) Post #AWsDeJkMKmo5zUGDS4 by vncntx@mastodon.social
2023-06-20T03:33:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral I am not as well-informed about this as I should be. What’s so bad with Meta joining the fediverse? What else are other instances expected to do except to receive and send activity pub messages to Meta’s federated instance?
(DIR) Post #AWsDeKPpqZz447fL6G by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-06-20T05:47:27Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@vncntx At the beginning, nothing. Once #Meta/Facebook/Instagram’s #Project92 is the largest instance, they’ll start making “improvements” to the protocol. Other instances will have to implement them to federate. At that point, they’ll be running the show.(If we let them. And by “we”, I mean the largest instances. mastodon.social and the other largest instances could nip this in the bud now if they wanted to. But I hear they’re out signing NDAs…)#embrace #extend #extinguish
(DIR) Post #AWsDeLJ8WyDgpdXVIW by piggo@piggo.space
2023-06-20T05:57:07.401033Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral @vncntx the silver lining here is that losing federation with mastodon.social, mstdn.social and other needlessly big servers will be a net improvement for the rest of the network.We can just keep existing in the shadows while the silos burn. There's no benefit in growth if you aren't doing it for profit or with the vision to sell the server/platform
(DIR) Post #AWsKBy6btwIORW66pU by vncntx@mastodon.social
2023-06-20T06:29:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral That attitude makes me quite uncomfortable. It seems like an overreaction to something that hasn't even happened yet. If #Meta wants to implement the #ActivityPub standard, let them. That's the point of an open standard. If Meta wants to contribute to its development, we should welcome it. Some good things have come out of Facebook Engineering in the past. Why not wait until they do something bad before taking action?
(DIR) Post #AWsKBywMnVhD22JRVA by dredmorbius@toot.cat
2023-06-20T06:31:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vncntx FB have more than adequately proven unworthy of trust: https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/110567869250237510@aral
(DIR) Post #AWsKC0wRMCwXEqMWtU by vncntx@mastodon.social
2023-06-20T06:49:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dredmorbius @aral Fair enough. Admins are well within their rights to excise #Meta like a gangrenous limb for past behavior. My worry though is that the attitude I've seen as a #Reddit refugee paints a somewhat insular community -- that Meta is being blocked not because Meta is bad but because "Facebook people" are bad, or any influx of people will "ruin the vibe". When people joined the fediverse, did they really mean "open" or "small"? When they said it was "free" did they really mean "mine"?
(DIR) Post #AWsKC1lqH63loGPa0u by boyter@honk.boyter.org
2023-06-20T07:10:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vncntx There are a lot of Eternal September people on the fediverse. I never understood why they didn't resort to allow listed federation instead of being hostile to others.
(DIR) Post #AWsLmgB9cCKLVrI9a4 by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-06-20T06:32:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vncntx Because unless you learn from history, you’re doomed to repeat it.(Which, clearly, it seems we are.)🤷♂️
(DIR) Post #AWsLmgtSxRlxjI1XeK by paul@notnull.click
2023-06-20T07:28:25.959196Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral @vncntx exactly this. for those of us that have seen this sort of thing happen many times before, (by many companies, not just facebook, but facebook have also historically been a culprit) we're right to be cautious.Meta sympathisers: Fast forward two or three years and prove us otherwise
(DIR) Post #AWsMAq3UXwHd5tEBc0 by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-06-20T07:31:37Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@paul @vncntx They don’t have to. They’ll write “oops” think pieces and do speaking tours where they recount how the fediverse was lost and how they’re feel terrible about the role they unknowingly played and how they’re now launching their next project to recapture the spirit of the early fediverse after quitting their job at Facebook/Meta/Instagram/whatever-the-fuck-it’ll-be-called-by-then 🤷♂️
(DIR) Post #AWsMPGjEAmrpsDd8me by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-06-20T07:33:49Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@paul @vncntx (Meanwhile, the Small Web will be up and running by then so hopefully some of us at least won’t have to know or care about their bullshit.)🤞
(DIR) Post #AWsNZuByP2St7MiBGK by MaryTheKnife@mastodon.social
2023-06-19T08:57:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral yep. playin with the big boys isn't all that. real people with full hearts and moral is.
(DIR) Post #AWsNZwFElsGRU4Focy by roadriverrail@signs.codes
2023-06-19T09:01:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@MaryTheKnife @aral And for that, they've strutted around acting like they know what best for small, independent instance admins like me. One of them blocked me because I said they hadn't earned my trust. Talk about ensuring I *definitely* don't trust them now.
(DIR) Post #AWsNZxQGOMg78YQ8S8 by MaryTheKnife@mastodon.social
2023-06-19T09:05:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@roadriverrail @aral when you say no is the time when you know who is friend and who is foe.
(DIR) Post #AWsNZy0QDvbMwhL0oS by roadriverrail@signs.codes
2023-06-19T09:10:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@MaryTheKnife @aral For the record, it was this person: https://mstdn.social/@stux
(DIR) Post #AWsNZyrb2E8VbcDThA by MaryTheKnife@mastodon.social
2023-06-19T09:14:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@roadriverrail @aral Blocking the art people? Well ..
(DIR) Post #AWsNZzacKq9HrFHQrw by roadriverrail@signs.codes
2023-06-19T09:16:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@MaryTheKnife @aral I'm not familiar with mastodon.art. What's the story there?
(DIR) Post #AWsNa0KLaojE94fx9E by noodlejetski@masto.ai
2023-06-19T10:07:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@roadriverrail .art's admin can be very trigger-happy when it comes to defederation. at times they'll block an instance X because the instance X doesn't block an instance Y that .art is having some problems with. judging from stux's timeline, he's just had enough of their shenanigans and didn't want to deal with them anymore.full thread: https://mstdn.social/@stux/110567605266100886@aral