Post AWiSYWdH4I7Xwv2l5E by kmj@mastodon.ctseuro.com
(DIR) More posts by kmj@mastodon.ctseuro.com
(DIR) Post #AWiNvsS7blO8Vr8uKO by dansup@mastodon.social
2023-06-15T11:52:53Z
1 likes, 5 repeats
I'm conflicted, a secret meeting between Meta/P92 and a few Mastodon admins happened today, and they can't share what was discussed (bcuz NDAs), but they said it was "good"Instagram literally banned #joinPixelfed a month ago, I'd like to think they are joining the fediverse on good terms but this is just sketchy IMOWhat are your thoughts?
(DIR) Post #AWiNvt7F8sHWZONkQK by pthenq1@mastodon.la
2023-06-15T12:05:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dansup They will join and they will do whatever they want and we will do whatever we want.It will be a tense relation
(DIR) Post #AWiO6mb1iqB9XEVZ3o by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-06-15T12:03:05Z
2 likes, 10 repeats
@dansup fedi admins meeting with Meta under NDAs is shit, that's what it is.It's effectively giving Meta power over fedi, by giving Meta power over what fedi admins can and cannot share with their communities.Which admins went, do you know?#Fediverse #FediAdmin
(DIR) Post #AWiOC2QgHZbg5YAuC8 by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-06-15T12:08:05.767266Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Do you know which Mastodon instances are involved?
(DIR) Post #AWiOnYsQbds1RB2uNE by EvilSandmich@poa.st
2023-06-15T12:15:08.163583Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@feld @dansup Embrace, extend, and extinguish; same ol' same ol'. Whatever instances were involved are destined for the trash heap.
(DIR) Post #AWiQpEZjG2maxcE01o by captainepoch@stereophonic.space
2023-06-15T12:37:46.707974Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@dansup Anything related to meta is sketchy as hell and not to be trusted ever.
(DIR) Post #AWiSYVwjcS5poz8mmG by dansup@mastodon.social
2023-06-15T12:44:56Z
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@rysiek I do know, but I’m not about to start drama by mentioning them. They have the fediverses best interests in mind from what I gather, so let’s hope for the best!
(DIR) Post #AWiSYWdH4I7Xwv2l5E by kmj@mastodon.ctseuro.com
2023-06-15T12:57:15Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@dansup @rysiek For normal there should be no special rules for the big data collectors. The protocol is public and they can join or not, but meetings under NDA is more than critical to activitypub/fediverse, especially where everybody being there can create a drama affecting all of fediverse. Furthermore there is possibility that the admins attending come under heavy preasure from each side. Does not taste well.
(DIR) Post #AWiTQ8l03JMZXSDrc0 by Gargron@mastodon.social
2023-06-15T12:14:41Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@dansup I think it’s important to understand what they’re working on and how it fits with what we’re doing. Even if an NDA is required, knowing is better than not knowing.
(DIR) Post #AWiTTps0DS247UGBou by dansup@mastodon.social
2023-06-15T12:18:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron Yeah that's a good point, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt!The fediverse could really use that type of growth, and it's a good sign that they are willing to have discussions with fediverse stakeholders.
(DIR) Post #AWiTTqRo4KfjuX0mcy by shlee@aus.social
2023-06-15T12:22:59Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@dansup @Gargron Our side of the ecosystem need to prepare to handle them whatever they do.For example, having 10,000 S3 buckets on 10,000 instances isn't going to cut if when the FB networks have thousands of TB of media on their side... and we absolutely need to build regional Jortage style AP enabled deduplicated CDN hubs to share the load.
(DIR) Post #AWiZ2PS8vRSi5wTCa0 by captainepoch@stereophonic.space
2023-06-15T14:09:35.729151Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@dansup @Gargron If they require a NDA to work on something that could affect all of the fediverse, it's sketchy as hell and not to be trusted.I don't know how both of you even agree wit this...
(DIR) Post #AWiamvdRhkABBJVEHI by captainepoch@stereophonic.space
2023-06-15T14:28:48.053228Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bot @Gargron @dansup Don't care.Meta proved itself over and over again to not be trusted at all. Ever.And two creators of platforms that are alternatives of the propietary ecosystem welcoming one of the biggest... It's absurd.
(DIR) Post #AWizgbyEP0oBJDJFHE by stux@mstdn.social
2023-06-15T19:08:18Z
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@Gargron @dansup guys.. is this supose to be public? :catblush:
(DIR) Post #AWotBAjEChTz48g12G by DemocracySpot@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T14:09:52Z
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@rysiek @dansup What is the source of this information about the under-NDA meeting of admins and META, please?@stux @calculsoberic
(DIR) Post #AWotBBtXrpKUgQVlku by calculsoberic@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T15:23:45Z
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@DemocracySpot @rysiek @dansup @stux I'm not sure
(DIR) Post #AWouaam8bCHN2his3U by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T15:29:56Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup @stux this was a response to a toot that was the source and was since deleted.
(DIR) Post #AWouabKWXLmilLoKeW by stux@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T15:39:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rysiek @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup Okay guys, before you all go and draw conclusions you send in the world, as you may understand we cannot say much but it's only about preparing the fediverse and it's software to the (maybe) coming of a new platformNothing more, nothing lessPlease, trust ❤️
(DIR) Post #AWoyTDfEWmMh9aEW4O by ailurocrat@scicomm.xyz
2023-06-18T16:22:56Z
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@stux @rysiek @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup i will never trust corporations to do anything good for fedi. You'd be fools if you did.
(DIR) Post #AWoyb5LbKgcdg0njDk by stux@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T16:24:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ailurocrat @rysiek @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup No, no, I ask for trust in us.. the adminsWe also dont have love for big tech (meta) and are only looking our for the Fedi itself, not them
(DIR) Post #AWp12pnuupLDUEPBVw by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T16:50:50Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@stux > We also dont have love for big tech (meta) and are only looking our for the Fedi itself, not themAnd I don't doubt you do. Problem is, a legal instrument like an NDA might make it illegal for you to look out for fedi.If Meta came in and revealed some particularly horrible plan, you would not be allowed to warn fedi, would you?..I am not trying to attack fedi admins here. I am trying to underline how dangerous NDAs with Meta are.@ailurocrat @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup
(DIR) Post #AWp12qxAduKz3Dk5Zo by stux@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T16:51:44Z
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@rysiek I totally understand 😉 But that's IF the admin singed the NDA :cat_hug_triangle: @ailurocrat @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup
(DIR) Post #AWp1AZMXvceeoLI6Ua by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T15:43:29Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@stux thanks for replying.I do trust the admins. But I do not trust Meta, and as I said, Meta demanding NDAs from fedi admins to participate in the meeting is a flex and a power move. It gives Meta power over what admins can discuss with their communities, and that I find problematic.I am going to bet Meta people were not asked to sign an NDA themselves in relation to information fedi admins provided them with. @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup
(DIR) Post #AWp35kEuGFxT0NXpw0 by ilja@ilja.space
2023-06-18T17:14:49.873593Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dansup I'm wondering what the context was. Were they payed as consultants? In that case I'm pretty meh about it. Business as usual, whether i like it or not. I'm not gonna blindly trust the judgement of someone who talks behind closed doors to meta like that and believes it's a good idea. But at the very least i can accept it's just a job they did, just like we all have jobs to do. If they didn't get properly payed for it, they basically did free-of-charge work for Meta AND signed an nda in order to be able to do it. At that point I'm definitely not gonna trust their judgement, and i seriously question their motives (were they really having fedi's best interest at heart as they probably believe was the case, or did they just like to feel important).
(DIR) Post #AWp40l21zJ5ty7hy9A by jherazob@mastodon.social
2023-06-18T17:25:01Z
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@stuxMeta is poison, the fact that you would have secret meetings with them when there should be *NOTHING* hidden when dealing with these snakes kills trust in *YOU*Sorry, there will be no trust when dealing with them.@rysiek @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup
(DIR) Post #AWp529PevP8DpSzKb2 by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T17:10:46Z
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@stux indeed. I don't have a lot of problems with fedi admins meeting with Meta in general. I do have a problem with Meta demanding NDAs for that to happen. And from what I understand, NDAs got signed.@ailurocrat @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup
(DIR) Post #AWp52A7cHyIG1nYR72 by runarcn@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T17:23:42Z
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@rysiek @stux @calculsoberic Can you two comment on whether or not you've signed an NDA with meta for this?
(DIR) Post #AWp52ApZeXSIE87Xd2 by stux@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T17:36:25Z
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@runarcn @rysiek I have not and @calculsoberic is not involved with this :blobcathearts:
(DIR) Post #AWp59VJ1vQmBkxOTZY by runarcn@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T17:37:52Z
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@stux @rysiek @calculsoberic Great! ^-^
(DIR) Post #AWp6KrTvurq7fnTOzI by clew@octodon.social
2023-06-18T17:51:01Z
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I’m sad at the tactical error in allowing Meta to set the terms of the meeting. @stux @ailurocrat @rysiek @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup
(DIR) Post #AWpJNoqnSELrmkuMNs by miklo@fosstodon.org
2023-06-18T19:56:13Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@rysiek @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup @stux Isn't it strange that everyone asked about the NDA with the Meta is quickly deleting the threads with own responses about it ? https://mstdn.social/users/stux/statuses/110565966519134522https://web.archive.org/web/20230618192005/https://mstdn.social/@stux/110565966519134522
(DIR) Post #AWpJNpq7mDPMqxbKyW by piggo@piggo.space
2023-06-18T20:17:14.653629Z
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@miklo @rysiek @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup @stux indeed that looks super fishy, like the whole NDA thing
(DIR) Post #AWpJuunYMV1HmvAkDY by ailurocrat@scicomm.xyz
2023-06-18T20:23:07Z
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@stux @rysiek @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup looking out for fedi involves blocking, not enabling. And signing something that disallows transparency is enabling. Don't get me wrong, i want my friends here, not on corporate platforms. But this is NOT the way.
(DIR) Post #AWpQHV0X15TwBXOXtw by stux@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T21:34:26Z
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@roadriverrail @rysiek @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup Uhuand what is one doing already for 3 years? :blobcatgiggle: 💸 doesn't matter 😉
(DIR) Post #AWpR4lCrZtymcAeW7k by roadriverrail@signs.codes
2023-06-18T21:43:31Z
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@calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @rysiek @dansup @stux Hah. Wild. @stux put out some vague "please trust" stuff, which I didn't cotton to, and then, if I had to guess, subsequently blocked me.I and my co-admin started our instance to get away from Meta. This is relevant to us. "Just trust" with no other info isn't exactly going to create a lot of..you know...trust.
(DIR) Post #AWpRLJ6dJAcwNxd1rE by edendestroyer@masto.ai
2023-06-18T21:24:29Z
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@ariadne @dansup @rysiek especially when #pixelfed promised to be an ethical alternative, away from #meta ?
(DIR) Post #AWpRLJmSne5UThCR3g by dansup@mastodon.social
2023-06-18T21:24:54Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@edendestroyer @ariadne @rysiek I was not present at the meeting, and never signed an NDA.
(DIR) Post #AWpRqv0iQiUWvBvyka by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-06-18T21:12:51Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@rysiek @dansup First I’m hearing about this shit. And, make no mistake, it is shit.Brexit-level shooting yourself in the foot move.
(DIR) Post #AWpSO0dcWnHPvmuVdo by calculsoberic@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T21:58:15Z
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@roadriverrail I'll sign the petition if that helps. @DemocracySpot @rysiek @dansup @stux
(DIR) Post #AWpSuqFaAbo7GpK3qC by penguin42@mastodon.org.uk
2023-06-18T22:04:15Z
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@rysiek @dansup It could depend - if the NDA was to not reveal anything too early and they were asking for help and understanding that's OK; as long as they're not telling the Mastodon people to do anything.
(DIR) Post #AWpTMXRfgEgl3XBSYy by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T22:09:13Z
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@penguin42 the problem is: we don't know, and we cannot (legally) know, unless Meta lets the attendees talk about it.The power dynamics and optics are just bad here.@dansup
(DIR) Post #AWpa3caL2tuNAqAGUC by oblomov@sociale.network
2023-06-15T13:39:02Z
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@dansup @Gargron the Fediverse does NOT need the kind of growth that comes from a massive privacy-invasive corporation who can and has deployed billions into killing off competition pretend-joining, monopolizing the discourse and then killing off all connections and stumping adoption of breakout tech, something which Meta has already done at least twice (RSS, XMPP). That's suicide, not growth.http://wok.oblomov.eu/tecnologia/credible-threat-1/
(DIR) Post #AWpa8JowEtUgQOEX8y by alienghic@octodon.social
2023-06-18T17:19:42Z
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@rysiek @stux @ailurocrat @calculsoberic @DemocracySpot @dansup As an analogy. Imagine fediverse admins are the mayors of small and medium sized towns, filled with people who recently moved because their towns were wrecked by a large multinational company. Then the population learns there's going to be a secret meeting between the mayors and the corporation. Wouldn't that seem suspicious and trigger peoples trust issues?In general I would like the fediverse to look more like local democratic governments and less like authoritarian companies, and publishing meeting agendas and minutes is part of that practice of democratic governance.
(DIR) Post #AWpaDidrNigQr2cusy by xenodine@mastodon.coloradocrest.net
2023-06-18T21:25:46Z
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@ariadne @dansup @rysiek could be meta working on some sort of activity pub integration. Megacorps love their ndas to avoid spooking shareholders. Tbh, could be a good thing having meta jump into the game. There are a lot of people who will never jump platforms, or would rather have a apple-like curated experience. Having meta be able to interact with the fediverse would allow both sets of users to find their niche. Ex. Many people have their own email service, but gmail remains very popular.
(DIR) Post #AWpaEv8aPPENtlZV3I by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-06-18T21:46:04Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@xenodine I am not necessarily against Meta implementing ActivityPub, it's a much bigger and much more complex conversation.I am strongly opposed to fedi admins signing NDAs on Meta's request. Meta does not get the benefit of the doubt here.@ariadne @dansup
(DIR) Post #AWpc1jQsodttjwy7Mm by penguin42@mastodon.org.uk
2023-06-18T23:46:20Z
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@rysiek @dansup True; I'm not cutting FB any slack, but until shown otherwise I'll give the fediverse people the slack.
(DIR) Post #AWqI5ANdHIRCGBlhyK by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2023-06-19T07:37:35.455Z
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@rysiek@mstdn.social @dansup@mastodon.social A mob is a kind of community, though.
(DIR) Post #AWqWMLur2XLGJqOfeC by edendestroyer@masto.ai
2023-06-18T22:02:04Z
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@dansup @ariadne @rysiek thats good to know!
(DIR) Post #AWqWMMdANmmsXH83iS by dansup@mastodon.social
2023-06-18T22:05:40Z
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@edendestroyer @ariadne @rysiek I was the one who mentioned this in the first place, but later deleted the post because I thought it wasn't my place to share that information (even though I did not attend, or sign an NDA).That was a mistake, and I'm sorry for that.
(DIR) Post #AWqsD3QqajupNSKgt6 by the_Effekt@universeodon.com
2023-06-19T14:22:20Z
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@penguin42 @rysiek @dansup This is also my perspective.
(DIR) Post #AWrX9lL7UxeyW6CdYe by sjw@bae.st
2023-06-19T22:01:10.733602Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@rysiek @dansup @rysiek @dansup why was I never offered an NDA?pout.jpg
(DIR) Post #AWrXc9IpztaywgffLk by gulovsen@mastodon.social
2023-06-18T04:06:42Z
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@Gargron @dansup Sorry to chime in uninvited but if you're going to sign an NDA with a company like Meta please please make sure you have an attorney in your neck of the woods review it thoroughly before you sign it. I haven't ever reviewed a Meta NDA but I have reviewed ones from Google, Microsoft, SAP, etc. and even though they are "mutual" they always contain language that benefits them far more than the other party signing (usually a small startup I happen to be advising). 🤓