Post AWRv3vxNIEFRdAtFQm by collette@sfba.social
(DIR) More posts by collette@sfba.social
(DIR) Post #AWLoUQx2oT06f1fIR6 by rvawonk@newsie.social
2023-06-04T13:00:08Z
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So in an effort to refute allegations of being pro-Putin, Marine Le Pen’s far-right National Rally party set up a parliamentary inquiry to investigate foreign interference in French politics. Instead of refuting the allegations, the inquiry has found that LePen is a Kremlin mouthpiece.https://www.france24.com/en/france/20230603-le-pen-s-far-right-served-as-mouthpiece-for-the-kremlin-says-french-parliamentary-report
(DIR) Post #AWLoURuxDivHeph8oi by khoji@ieji.de
2023-06-04T14:44:39Z
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@rvawonk Someone needs to do a psychological study of these traumatized children of major jackboots like Trump and Jean-Marie Le PEN.
(DIR) Post #AWLuchgx3WAWccSrA0 by OGjester@stranger.social
2023-06-04T15:22:58Z
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@rvawonk I would feel safe in assuming most of the world’s far-right political groups have been co-opted by Russia. The consistency and uniformity of their talking points is striking.
(DIR) Post #AWLuciQKKoSstLh5t2 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-04T15:53:20Z
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@OGjester Probably true, and most of the worlds far-left is likely co-opted by china for the same reasons.@rvawonk
(DIR) Post #AWLxJSajH3Rc9K4NNI by kctipton@mas.to
2023-06-04T16:23:30Z
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@freemo Oh really? What talking points are being repeated by the "far left" worldwide that are of Chinese political origin?
(DIR) Post #AWLxUj7q8ofYc8vftI by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-04T16:25:30Z
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@kctipton well much like the far-right it is hard to distinguish which statements originate from the russians/china themselves. The only clue we have is the friendliness of the far-right/left, and the general consistency in talking points, often expressed in ways that are self-defeating or meant to be divisive.
(DIR) Post #AWLygf1zI1ijLRRjBg by EpiphanicSynchronicity@pkm.social
2023-06-04T16:38:50Z
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@khoji @rvawonk This probably comes the closest so far: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_Much_and_Never_Enough
(DIR) Post #AWLz30LMjNADocAGB6 by khoji@ieji.de
2023-06-04T16:42:57Z
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@EpiphanicSynchronicity @rvawonk Yes, that shows how the fathers were created. But what’s weird is the way their children follow in their footsteps. No hint of rebellion against the über-father from Ivanka, Eric, Junior or Marine. It’s bizarre.
(DIR) Post #AWM3KYrY2hWlc7qR7I by JaneinNJ@newsie.social
2023-06-04T17:30:56Z
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@khoji @rvawonk Centuries of generational trauma, now manifesting itself on the world stage.
(DIR) Post #AWM9iLcRX75bDMVMwK by andytiedye@sfba.social
2023-06-04T18:42:28Z
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@freemo @kctipton What "far left"? Whatever there is of it is too small and powerless to be worth the bother for either country. It is the far right that has power far beyond its numbers, and there is plenty of evidence of Russian support for right-wing fascist movements all over the world.
(DIR) Post #AWMA2y2sNHbABQhWZU by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-04T18:46:10Z
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@andytiedye depends on the country you are talking about. In the USA a huge portion of the left is "far-left" and radicalized in all sorts of ways (just as the USA has a huge far-right problem)... Thankfully in much (not all) of the rest of the world you'd be right, there isnt much of a far-left or far-right in say, the Netherlands. The prevelance of the far-left seems limited to the USA, but for anyone not on the extremes of the spectrum they are a very obvious and pervasive group for sure.In fact the USA is so polarized they tend to exist on the extremes of almost any issue, even non-political ones.@kctipton
(DIR) Post #AWMD3xElAIShpQQD6e by EpiphanicSynchronicity@pkm.social
2023-06-04T19:19:59Z
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@khoji @rvawonk They were probably raised much as their fathers were raised, so…. Also, their wealth, power, and privilege—and likely much of their sense of who they are—come from being their fathers’ children. I imagine they would find it hard to walk away from all of that.
(DIR) Post #AWMDvPWOjbgwtoA5hI by andytiedye@sfba.social
2023-06-04T19:29:39Z
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@freemo @kctipton I'm in California and I'm not seeing radicalized far-left anything.What is this "far left" of which you speak?
(DIR) Post #AWMEScv3wVqK0YXMVE by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-04T19:35:36Z
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@andytiedye If you are unable to even see the existance of the far-left, much like people on the far-right, its a strong indicator you may be on the far-left.That said I dont know you, or your opinions. so it is only suggestive at best. I'd need to know more about your opinions to even speculate why you are blind to such an overwhelmingly obvious segment of the populace. So I cant really say why you cant see it when its right in front of your face.@kctipton
(DIR) Post #AWMaW8zvKY5ZMEtRKK by andytiedye@sfba.social
2023-06-04T23:42:48Z
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@freemo @kctipton You still have not cited any examples of this "far left".
(DIR) Post #AWMaq1iW6rnAZJERsW by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-04T23:46:23Z
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@andytiedye Yes thats intentional. For anyone ont he far-left they would have responded in a similar sense as you have, and would be a quite fruitless conversation if I tried... now im not saying you are on the far-left either, but i generally calculate the likelyhood a conversation will have value and the odds seem low here is all, though maybe im wrong and you are quite good at not being biased and would in fact have had a good conversation, who knows, either way that wasnt the bet I was willing to make. I mean really, if a right wing person told you they didnt think extremism existed in any reasonable numbers on the right, would you think that person stood any chance of having a productive conversation to the contrary?@kctipton
(DIR) Post #AWNz2EH1qHpP2rgbC4 by kctipton@mas.to
2023-06-05T15:52:15Z
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@freemo @andytiedye Really, if a rightwinger denied it at their political end, I can at least point to lots of examples. We have not seen you post examples of what you assert is true. Is this like arguments for God, that you can see God everywhere if you only open your eyes? You can see far-left everywhere if only you arent already biased far left?
(DIR) Post #AWO2jM8ilw8hkv3YX2 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-05T16:26:05Z
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@kctipton Yes you could point to lots of examples, just as I could point to lots of left wing examples... but that wasnt what I asked... Do you think listing examples of right-wing extremism to such a person would be a productive conversation worth having, or do you think they would just be blind to it all the same and you had wasted your time?My point is I have not had any desire to actually get into the discussion because I already know how it will go, you will come up with exuses or deny the examples and we both would have wasted time, probably ending with you resorting to name calling or a block to feel morally superior... ultimately a waste of my time, so despite any goating I have little interest in having the conversation with someone i dont know.. if you were someone I knew enough to suspect that we could have a productive conversation then I'd be happy to@andytiedye
(DIR) Post #AWO4cqY5VsSJwuwfLM by kctipton@mas.to
2023-06-05T16:54:45Z
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@freemo Then point to your examples. I somewhat regularly see complaints about "the far left" as if it's some big and noticeable beast, but usually it is complaints about some slightly left stuff, coming from people who are waaaay out on the right who are trying to scare and incite reactions. My assertion is that the "left" here in the USA is very unpopulated compared to the "right." The "far left" is even more unpopulated.
(DIR) Post #AWO5U0aAwGYEPrGsCG by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-05T17:04:27Z
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@kctipton Again why would I go into examples when i have no reason to think it would be a fruitful discussion... but ok if you really insist on going down that road i can put out a few feelers to get a sense of if I think it would be productive to do a play by play and have a serious debate, to do that I need some sense if you are yourself on the far left first.I can assume you subscribe to some, or many of the things on the left in terms of ideology, nothing wrong with that, but someone who isnt extreme left would show a balance, can you list some clearly right-leaning pieces of ideology you agree with that would counter any left-leaning ideaology you have? Can you list any non-left politician you have voted for or supported for presidency (a republican, or even libertarian or right-of-center no-party candidate)?While I think we both agree 99% of things Trump did as president was harmful, can you list anything Trump did that had at least some positive results (and no, doing stupid things ans strengthening support for the left or similar wouldnt count)? (honestly this one is might be a bit hard so not a huge deal if you cant)In general can you give **any** examples of ways in which you might lean right on any issue or in any scenario, or do you generally just go straight down the left on everything 100% of the time?I ask as a lithmus test to get a sense of if your even capable of having this conversation or if you are just fully team left in every regard, in which case it should be obvious why I wouldnt expect a conversation to be productive.
(DIR) Post #AWOK3uu4vfeCaPb5nc by kctipton@mas.to
2023-06-05T19:47:50Z
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@freemo Jesus, you were the one with the assertion. I voted R until 2004 when it became clear that (A) the R party supported torture, (B) the R party insisted invading iraq was correct even though they never found what they claimed made the invasion so urgent, and (C) the R party was becoming churchy and preachy and uncaring at the same time. As for Trump, that should be no litmus test. If anything good happened while he was around, it was despite him and not because of him.
(DIR) Post #AWOPyMXzpvoIJG0Ghs by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-05T20:54:02Z
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@kctipton For the record I have never voted republican and would never vote or support Trump.
(DIR) Post #AWRv3vxNIEFRdAtFQm by collette@sfba.social
2023-06-07T13:26:32Z
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@freemo your post is fantastical.
(DIR) Post #AWS4MRv85euZZ4kARU by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-07T15:10:43Z
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@collette You are right, it is a fantastic post ;)
(DIR) Post #AWS52R3dgjNL3FkDaq by JonKramer@qoto.org
2023-06-07T15:18:21Z
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@freemo @andytiedye @kctipton , I'm a libertarian communist, about as far left as you can get, and there really aren't many people where I am. Even the progressives are middle of the political spectrum, at best....
(DIR) Post #AWS7f2sZiV4bGW6k52 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-07T15:47:42Z
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@JonKramer @andytiedye @kctipton There are quite a few aspects of what constitutes "far-left"... not all far-left is the same.. sure communism is fairly far left but its not that simple... there is a long checklist of things that exist somewhere on the left and there is even much wiggle room within the tip of the spectrum. Maybe, for example your a communist who beleives in gun rights, and therefore show perhaps a few extreme views but mixed along the spectrum. You also dont have to be full on communist to be far left, europe is still capitalist and not even socialist for example, pro socialism would be pretty far left in european terms too (though keep in mind im not talking about the casual use of socialism as a term. but actual socialism, which doesnt exist in almost any modern governments).
(DIR) Post #AWSEpuWxnQWmEm7wjg by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2023-06-07T17:07:22Z
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@andytiedye @freemo @kctipton Freemo may not want to give out examples, but I'll wade into that muck. I'm a left-leaning-centrist with libertarian tendencies, so most of what I define as "far left" are good ideas at their core, but taken to the extreme.A good example is gun control. Most Americans (including most gun owners) are in favor of reasonable gun control. The far left takes this to the extreme, though, and advocates outright banning of guns, usually based on arbitrary factors like what shape or color they are.A second, quick example would be the whole "forgive student loans" thing. That was entirely driven by the far left in this country.Another example is environmentally friendly cars. Most people are for electric vehicle subsidies, and improving charger infrastructure... to an extent. But California's attempt to ban non-electric vehicles (while its grid still runs more than 50% on natural gas, and the state faces widespread power shortages!) is endemic of far-left thinking, putting the cart before the horse.Finally, you have free speech. Both the far left and the far right threaten free speech, but from opposite directions. The far right wants to ban books about homosexuality, while the far left wants the state to punish "disinformation" and charge Trump with incitement over nonsense (a lefty account I saw recently suggested he should be indicted for using the word "fight" on Truth Social, despite the fact that Dems use that term to refer to 'electoral fights' just as often).So, yeah, I have to agree with Freemo that it's one of those things where, if you can't see it, it might be because you're in the middle of it.
(DIR) Post #AWSF13akRp8RWcDE4O by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-07T17:10:06Z
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@LouisIngenthron All examples I would agree with here. My avoidance of giving examples is largely just because i expect this to be followed by a toxic shit storm, blocks, and just general fruitlessness.... I hope im wrong.@andytiedye @kctipton
(DIR) Post #AWSF4VGG1ttqD2GsqG by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2023-06-07T17:10:47Z
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@freemo Hence what I referred to as "wading into the muck" lol
(DIR) Post #AWSFrF3J5B9y7zSDDM by koherecoWatchdog@freeradical.zone
2023-06-07T17:15:03Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron @kctipton @freemo @andytiedye hold on.. you’re all over the place; lot to unpack; this should really be dozen separate threads. W.r.t guns, dems (that means USian liberals not EU liberals) advocate gun *control* not gun *prohibition*. You’ve subcategorized prohibition under “gun control” & it distorts & muddies the water. It attempts to use a fraction of 1% extreme minority as reps for mainstream dems.
(DIR) Post #AWSFrFmKNnAkNcWAO8 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-07T17:19:32Z
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@koherecoWatchdog @LouisIngenthron @kctipton @andytiedye I should also point out, to confuse things more, I see two forms of extremism at play... there is extremism of views,a nd extermism of application. A peaceful levelheaded communist willing to discuss philosophy in good faith might have an extremism of views, but is not particularly extreme in their application... meanwhile a more moderate left person who will block you if you have any deviation of opinion, or might be violent and cause riots in support of hillary might not have the most extreme views but clearly extreme in their application.So to muddy the waters more I have a tendency to lump these two together when i talk about "far-left", which may not be the best for communication purposes.
(DIR) Post #AWSFrG3hLD4DFUe2Sm by koherecoWatchdog@freeradical.zone
2023-06-07T17:18:58Z
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@andytiedye @kctipton @LouisIngenthron @freemo One thing that puts me off buying a gun is that every single gun sold in the US comes from an #NRA supporting entity. There is no way for liberals to buy a gun w/out feeding the NRA. Even if you want a Bereta from Italy, their US-based import company finances the NRA.
(DIR) Post #AWSFyyMh0eHQgpCxQu by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-07T17:20:57Z
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@koherecoWatchdog A relevant article: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/what-happened-when-a-major-gun-company-crossed-the-nra/@andytiedye @kctipton @LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AWSG8tOkKaLSBHtmW8 by koherecoWatchdog@freeradical.zone
2023-06-07T17:22:44Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron @kctipton @andytiedye can’t watch videos right now, but looks like it could be interesting
(DIR) Post #AWSGBgTgpC5oyiXfk0 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-07T17:23:14Z
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@koherecoWatchdog Given where your interests lie I suspect you might find it interesting.@LouisIngenthron @kctipton @andytiedye
(DIR) Post #AWSHGQqSTT25td1HjE by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2023-06-07T17:33:57Z
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@koherecoWatchdog @andytiedye @kctipton @freemo Right. Ironically, you'd need to go to a state with a gun show loophole to buy from a private seller.
(DIR) Post #AWSHGRVvzGD3yGQPNQ by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-07T17:35:17Z
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@LouisIngenthron I think his issue isnt just that the gun shops themselves support the NRA, but also that the gun manufacturers support the NRA.He could custom-build though. You can buy the parts from third-parties and assemble yourself. Lots of gun people do that.@koherecoWatchdog @andytiedye @kctipton
(DIR) Post #AWSHNzPOMn3P7Uxn9c by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2023-06-07T17:36:42Z
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@freemo @koherecoWatchdog @andytiedye @kctipton Probably both. The NRA got its stranglehold on the industry by offering insurance to gun shops and ranges when nobody else would. Now it's nearly impossible to find any gun-related-business in America that doesn't have ties to the NRA.
(DIR) Post #AWSHf04d9AJE6cMblQ by koherecoWatchdog@freeradical.zone
2023-06-07T17:39:44Z
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@freemo @kctipton @andytiedye @LouisIngenthron I recall a police dept having a gun buyback program. They were giving like $200 per shotgun. So a guy bought some pipes & built 3 handmade shotguns, brought them down to the police station and sold the lot for $600. It complied w/the terms of the program so they had to accept them.
(DIR) Post #AWSHrW9Pi7Dl4AZNxI by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2023-06-07T17:40:49Z
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@koherecoWatchdog @freemo @kctipton @andytiedye Lol, that's pretty smart.
(DIR) Post #AWSHrWmPN8Pf16oWjg by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-07T17:41:58Z
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@LouisIngenthron Next time there is a police buyback program that offers 200$ per gun ill set up a little shop next door that says "We buy guns, 250$ per gun!"@koherecoWatchdog @kctipton @andytiedye
(DIR) Post #AWSHuHW0a7tqXlSLPk by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2023-06-07T17:42:33Z
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@freemo @koherecoWatchdog @kctipton @andytiedye Have you seen the crap that ends up in police buyback programs? You'd lose sooooo much money.