Post AWLRtfFGVY0vHoFXJQ by dottorblaster@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by dottorblaster@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AWKBeUetnFStgU1X0a by carlwgeorge@fosstodon.org
2023-06-03T19:27:34Z
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I've been seeing lots of "the sky is falling" takes around Red Hat pulling out of LibreOffice RPM maintenance in Fedora. Here's a reality check: the vast majority of packages in Fedora are not maintained in an official capacity (i.e. part of their job) by Hatters. That's because only a small subset (~10%) of Fedora packages make it into RHEL. Currently RHEL 9 has 6,501 RPMs (from 2,393 SRPMs), while Fedora 38 has 60,807 RPMs (from 23,281 SRPMs).#Fedora #RedHat #RHEL #LibreOffice
(DIR) Post #AWKBeVLRF5UboPvVJY by carlwgeorge@fosstodon.org
2023-06-03T19:29:10Z
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Red Hat certainly contributes greatly to Fedora in other ways, but direct maintenance of a specific package or set of packages is not a reliable indicator of Red Hat's overall investment. Fedora is going to be just fine.#Fedora #RedHat #RHEL #LibreOffice
(DIR) Post #AWKBeW5WTkM87LUJ96 by webmink@meshed.cloud
2023-06-03T19:53:09Z
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@carlwgeorgeI'm not much concerned about Fedora, but I still think RH disinvesting in #LibreOffice - where it employed the leading contributor - is a bad thing.
(DIR) Post #AWKKCkeFeNI6koZEKe by carlwgeorge@fosstodon.org
2023-06-03T21:29:00Z
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@webmink Red Hat is going to make product decisions for RHEL that guide their investment of paid engineer resources in Fedora. Whether each individual decision is good or bad or meh fully depends on how you feel about the thing in question. It's subjective. Those engineering resources are not infinite.
(DIR) Post #AWKQiuByIjh9LU3TAu by webmink@meshed.cloud
2023-06-03T22:41:39Z
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@carlwgeorge Obviously Red Hat's business strategy reflects the philosophy guiding it. Disinvestment in #LibreOffice after a decade as a key contributor speaks strongly to the change in direction the company is taking now it is just a division of IBM. We all remember how IBM abandoned ODF once it had played the competitive role that drove the initial engagement. Believe me, I am the last person to anthropomorphize corporations! This is a decade old: https://webmink.com/essays/reptiles/
(DIR) Post #AWKRkxW90aKWBz29Qm by jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
2023-06-03T22:53:41Z
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@webmink @carlwgeorge I for one think Red Hat has done more than many other companies in the field to support upstream projects. Strategies and priorities change. That’s unfortunately part of (business) life. But extrapolating this step to some sinister plan in the background? That’s a bit rich, IMHO.
(DIR) Post #AWKZwcnSfl4n2KCukS by carlwgeorge@fosstodon.org
2023-06-04T00:25:09Z
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@webmink Instead of criticizing RH for ending their investment in LO, how about you criticize all the other companies that haven't employed a LO maintainer for nearly two decades?You should know better than to just blame every decision you don't like on IBM. RHEL has deprecated and removed packages before it got acquired.
(DIR) Post #AWLCQGKYYvUMIwFLkW by jesse@pub.frostillic.us
2023-06-04T07:36:07Z
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@webmink @carlwgeorge @kjjaeger As somebody who was on the Lotus customer side, seeing the “vision” of an open desktop environment based on Linux and ODF fold as soon as their first marketing push failed, I can agree with that. I still, even now, like the idea in broad strokes, but their actual actions, and not the ostensible philosophical reasons, are the proof.
(DIR) Post #AWLNzH2Z0wTm8YjC6a by carlwgeorge@fosstodon.org
2023-06-04T00:29:19Z
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@webmink But don't take it from me, listen to Caolán's new employer:> RedHat was instrumental in founding The Document Foundation, and has invested far more than we had any right to expect through its team over a long period; they deserve our thanks.
(DIR) Post #AWLNzIj8k889Mtei6i by webmink@meshed.cloud
2023-06-04T09:45:51Z
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@carlwgeorgeThat was Red Hat before IBM, which balanced community and commerce admirably. After IBM the company is losing its community vision and "Open Organization" thought-leadership to just become one more revenue unit for Arvind. .The layoffs speak for themselves, as does the shuttering of OpenSource.Com - no amount of loyal defence pretending it's business-as-usual can hide it. This is just one more brick in that wall.
(DIR) Post #AWLRtfFGVY0vHoFXJQ by dottorblaster@fosstodon.org
2023-06-03T19:44:23Z
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@carlwgeorge to be actually honest the vast majority of the reactions I read were like “who cares, we got the Flatpak” - and I strongly agree
(DIR) Post #AWLRtg3xT4Yzp1y1KK by webmink@meshed.cloud
2023-06-04T10:29:47Z
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@dottorblasterI'd guess anyone expressing that view is unaware that Red Hat no longer employs the lead committer to #LibreOffice and no longer contributes funding to TDF or support via the TDF advisory Board, and that IBM no longer funds or supports ODF standardisation, in addition to Red Hat no longer owning the rpm.@carlwgeorge
(DIR) Post #AWLSPpHKjuT5feYLNA by dottorblaster@fosstodon.org
2023-06-04T10:35:27Z
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@webmink @carlwgeorge absolutely unaware of that, and yes that’s a shame, but still the Flatpak remains an absolute unit in terms of just using the product. Standardization and foundational work should be totally different fields than just packaging.That said, what’s happening with Red Hat shutting down things like opensource.com is absolute pity
(DIR) Post #AWLTN4cbL0ueLFkgxk by webmink@meshed.cloud
2023-06-04T10:46:18Z
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@dottorblaster That's where I'm coming from. Any large open source strategy other than strip-mining involves sustaining the ecosystem indirectly so the revenue-generating edge remains healthy. The reductionism of most corporations lays off the people that do it, reduces funding so it can't be afforded and even (as Oracle did when buying Sun) laughs at the fools "leaving money on the table".Unfortunately, seems that's where Red Hat - for many people a beacon - is going too.@carlwgeorge
(DIR) Post #AWLTdgRCVRnkGAL8C0 by webmink@meshed.cloud
2023-06-04T10:49:24Z
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@carlwgeorge Coming back to an earlier point that's been overlooked, I am sure Fedora will be fine (it has you for goodness sake!) but how do you think #LibreOffice will do with one less large contributor?
(DIR) Post #AWLoCNSB4yQ6bFcLT6 by nitot@framapiaf.org
2023-06-04T14:38:31Z
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@webmink @carlwgeorge I love the reptile analogy and the article too!
(DIR) Post #AWM07eSJdXsxKjC9g0 by carlwgeorge@fosstodon.org
2023-06-04T16:53:28Z
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@webmink @dottorblaster Name another company that sustains the ecosystem more, directly or indirectly. You're nitpicking where that sustainment is targeted. Resources aren't infinite and if a team is allocated a set head count they have to choose where they will focus. Team members that want to work on something other than that focus will find a new team or new company. It happens all the time, and not just at r Red Hat. I've got plenty of complaints about Red Hat, but this ain't it.
(DIR) Post #AWM1OVXK9RqkY28gkK by carlwgeorge@fosstodon.org
2023-06-04T17:07:16Z
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@webmink Before IBM, Red Hat deprecated KDE from RHEL and slated it to be removed in the next major version. Did you cry foul then? LO is no different.I'm not defending the layoffs or shutting down open source.com. Those piss me off. Deprecating LO from RHEL is something else entirely. People connecting the two are just trying to paint a narrative.
(DIR) Post #AWM1x6qHxIXc60Vcbg by webmink@meshed.cloud
2023-06-04T17:13:40Z
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@carlwgeorgeHow about because I have been watching out for the project since we made it open source in 2000 and care deeply about it?
(DIR) Post #AWM2Q9qvqGB7pXf49Q by carlwgeorge@fosstodon.org
2023-06-04T17:18:20Z
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@webmink Thanks for the kind words. I contributed to Fedora before RH hired me, and I likely will after I'm gone. So I guess I'm a Fedoran first and a Hatter second.It's not like RH had an army of people working on LO. As I understand it, a leading contributor changed employers from RH to Collabora, so no net loss or gain. Maybe it's more risk to LO if Collabora goes out of business. But if that's the concern then the focus should be on bringing in more corporate sponsorship than 1 or 2.
(DIR) Post #AWM2yQtD0RdaVy4ODw by webmink@meshed.cloud
2023-06-04T17:25:12Z
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@carlwgeorge There were actually two contributors reassigned; one moved to Collabora to stay with LO, the other is still at RH but off LO, so that's a net loss unfortunately.The situation at TDF is a whole other issue, but I will say that the timing is unfortunate as there is a war going on in the board and it has been scaring away AB members.
(DIR) Post #AWM41NTEH4d4jXt0Jk by carlwgeorge@fosstodon.org
2023-06-04T17:37:01Z
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@webmink This comes back to my earlier comment about it being subjective. Someone who doesn't use LO but wants HDR support will see this as good news. Someone who cares about LO may think it's bad news (until they realize there was no net loss, just a change in one contributor's employer).
(DIR) Post #AWM5BNG80ya2vc5Zei by carlwgeorge@fosstodon.org
2023-06-04T17:50:15Z
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@webmink I don't know much about the situation, I just knew that the majority of the RPM changelog entries were from Caolán, giving the appearance of him being the primary person. I suspect other contributions were more drive-by style and not the contributor's primary job responsibility.It's certainly bad news for LO that RH will no longer be donating, but like engineering resources, money isn't infinite and it's hard to justify donating to projects that don't feed into RH products.
(DIR) Post #AWM5VVUT7XaiFUOeH2 by sesivany@floss.social
2023-06-04T17:53:15Z
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@webminkmeshed.cloud I was responsible for LO in Red Hat from 2015-2018. We had 5 LO devels and helped the project in 2011 when it needed it the most. I'd love us to support LO like we did before, but we have the same resources and an increasing amount of work and that leads to making hard decisions. One of them is focusing more on the platform and less on applications because we're primarily an OS vendor after all.@carlwgeorge
(DIR) Post #AWMAVwSVLvFbf0VLrk by webmink@meshed.cloud
2023-06-04T18:49:40Z
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@sesivany Thanks Jiří, aware 🙂 Is Red Hat planning to engage at TDF at all any more or is this goodbye?@carlwgeorge
(DIR) Post #AWMC3JGvecONvPZ6Fk by sesivany@floss.social
2023-06-04T19:06:40Z
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@webmink frankly I have no idea. The fact that Red Hat has completely withdrawn from the TDF advisory board is news to me. As a desktop engineering manager I'm involved in discussions where to focus our development, but donations and such are handled by the open source & standards team. I can ask around what's going on in this regard.@carlwgeorge