Post AWJ045Nh0ItMCzS7d2 by frumble@chaos.social
(DIR) More posts by frumble@chaos.social
(DIR) Post #AWIzVzBXXB4L97VZBo by jorge@hachyderm.io
2023-06-03T01:20:03Z
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Some people don't want to hear this but whatever:https://www.ypsidanger.com/the-distribution-model-is-changing/
(DIR) Post #AWIzmlYtRFhPoiQtyi by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-03T06:07:05Z
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@jorge if thatvs remotely correct we dont need more than 3 distros on the market if all they bring is just flatpak under the hood
(DIR) Post #AWJ043Te5CSuIsDqd6 by frumble@chaos.social
2023-06-03T02:25:54Z
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@jorge I don’t buy RedHat’s claim that the same people packaging LibreOffice are now building HDR support. That’s PR, it’s probably about easy layoffs.#Flatpaks have worse desktop integration (think of different file pickers, compile flags for different media frameworks, etc.) and the space consumption is massive. Also, an inherent security risk if certain libs don’t get updated. This will be worse than the current situation. It will be the Log4j problem in a myriad clandestine ways.
(DIR) Post #AWJ044Ih1PIYrC6cCG by jorge@hachyderm.io
2023-06-03T02:34:49Z
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@frumble If only there was some kind of log that was publically available of the work being done on these packages!If there's a security risk in a library then it needs to be fixed, in many cases the same people involved have to fix it, why do I have to care if they push to a distro git remote or a flathub git remote? The space thing is a myth: https://www.ypsidanger.com/wasting-disk-space/
(DIR) Post #AWJ045FtTIeZonntTM by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-03T06:10:11Z
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@jorge @frumble more important is flatpaks not being updated when some of their dependencies are EOL and this is a growing problem. We are jus reinventing the wheel inside flatpak and building a flatpak is laso unnecessarily complex.
(DIR) Post #AWJ045Nh0ItMCzS7d2 by frumble@chaos.social
2023-06-03T02:26:08Z
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@jorge This system-wide lib updating was, in theory at least, one of the biggest selling points for Linux systems. Linux isn’t so much a platform, but an ecosystem. Replacing the ecosystem layer with a platform layer (and at the same time making the base system immutable) is harming what it actually is for us to *use* desktop Linux.
(DIR) Post #AWJ04sxseXxBzPlDKy by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-03T06:10:22Z
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@jorge @frumble more important is flatpaks not being updated when some of their dependencies are EOL and this is a growing problem. We are jus reinventing the wheel inside flatpak and building a flatpak is also unnecessarily complex.
(DIR) Post #AWJ0HSsWx78WqhFxI0 by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-03T05:36:54Z
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@jorge YES. Thank you! Packaging work being duplicated on multiple distros has to stop for these end user apps. It’s inefficient, creates more points of failure, and doesn’t bring any benefit to users.
(DIR) Post #AWJ0HTcyASHdAiz2fo by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-03T06:12:39Z
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@thelinuxEXP @jorge flatpak integration in distros still sucks though. This is not a solved problem and you need shit like flatseal to make things work which is not user friendly at all. Pushing flatpak as if its a miracle is simply ignoring its multiple shortcomings
(DIR) Post #AWJEVn406ITGrdLXzE by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-03T08:52:04Z
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@boilingsteam @jorge That hasn’t been my experience at all. No app I’ve installed recently has required any use of Flatseal whatsoever, and virtually all the apps Inuse are Flatpaks.It’s not perfect, but these preconceived notions need to stop.
(DIR) Post #AWJQVHoFV8tzNhVMno by shakil_tcs@mstdn.starnix.network
2023-06-03T11:06:29Z
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@TheEvilSkeleton @frumble @jorge Only for the full DEs maybe. However, I am still trying to figure out how to use my default fonts in flatpak apps in i3wm. Also, while GTK themes can be applied qt5ct don't seem to affect flatpak qt apps.
(DIR) Post #AWJae3E05xW8IOMsdc by lucas@fitt.au
2023-06-03T09:11:01Z
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@thelinuxEXP @boilingsteam @jorge Packaging half an OS worth of dependencies with an app isn't solving the issue, it's kicking the can down the road and making the user pay with a slower experience. One of the cries of the linux user is "it's faster!" but install gimp with snap, and with a .deb then open them both.very different experiences."in the cloud", it's fine, it's a server that does one thing, the binary is already running. on the desktop, where responsiveness matters, not so fine.
(DIR) Post #AWJae4UhNMT6ETBjIu by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-03T09:49:21Z
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@lucas @boilingsteam @jorge Except that’s not what’s happening. The dependencies are mostly in the runtimes, you install them once and they’re kept up to date and shared between apps. It’s an actual fix.I use GIMP as a Flatpak, and I used it as an RPM. There’s no performance difference at all.
(DIR) Post #AWJae5DMhICIT05OvQ by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-03T13:00:06Z
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@thelinuxEXP @lucas @jorge yes and you end up with flatpaks that rely on EOL runtimes and thats not even rare at all.
(DIR) Post #AWJaqGPssHoqgSkYl6 by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-03T13:02:18Z
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@thelinuxEXP @jorge this is no preconceived notion at all. This is me using flatpak and finding many issues when it comes to having basic expectations. Like keepassxc, good luck trying to make it work with a flatpaked firefox.
(DIR) Post #AWJcydPzRFMMFOv1qC by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-03T13:26:10Z
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@boilingsteam @lucas @jorge And that’s different from the same app in the distro’s repos that use the old versions of libraries the distro ships? Same problem.
(DIR) Post #AWJdBvuzxzlnOBlQZc by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-03T13:28:37Z
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@boilingsteam @jorge Like I said, it’s not perfect. But let’s not act like « tens of people waste time doing the same job for 100 different packages across 3 versions of 10 distros » isn’t worse than « some edge cases are less practical sometimes »
(DIR) Post #AWJeinhDepjHOmYTiq by popey@ubuntu.social
2023-06-03T13:45:44Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @jorge Dude, that's just a bug. Once fixed it's fixed for everyone in every distro. Do you think there are no integration bugs in any other packages? Think debs, rpms and the aur are some kind of panacea? It's just software. It can be fixed.
(DIR) Post #AWJg6iXqYqRUKK8iBc by jorge@hachyderm.io
2023-06-03T14:01:18Z
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@boilingsteam Hey, finally people are getting it!😄 😄 😄 You're right, then the competition becomes on which distro can offer the best core OS experience: kernel, graphics, sound, etc. And at a _minimum_ they'd have to a better job than #openSUSE is doing right now so the bar is already higher than it was last generation. This is a good thing for us users!
(DIR) Post #AWJqocxbgUmvI2lV3Y by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-03T16:01:18Z
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@popey @thelinuxEXP @jorge its not a bug. Keepassxc devs say by themselves it cant work currently with flatpak. So flatpak breaks a very legitimate use.
(DIR) Post #AWJqzMppyiIaSoFhPU by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-03T16:03:07Z
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@boilingsteam @popey @jorge It’s being worked on, with native messaging support. Doesn’t invalidate all the other advantages for users and developers ;)
(DIR) Post #AWJr4VPdVzsuVvRmMK by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-03T16:04:10Z
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@thelinuxEXP @jorge i would argue that making a flatpak is incredibly more complex than making a package in just any distro. The process is way more convoluted.
(DIR) Post #AWJr51NydhZTg2uuDQ by popey@ubuntu.social
2023-06-03T16:04:14Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @jorge Jeez dude, get a grip. It's not working as designed. That's a bug. Whether Keepassxc say it is or not, it is. It's a bug in the design, or the implementation. It's not a massive catastrophe that means Flatpak is completely unusable. It's one application not working well when confined. It'll be fixed, but not everything gets fixed immediately. These things take time.
(DIR) Post #AWJrH5SRKFabmUl21I by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-03T16:06:25Z
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@boilingsteam @jorge Depends on the app, and its level of complexity and dependencies. In the end, it still looks far more efficient than attempting to make a package for each supported version of each distribution.There’s also the testing: with Flatpak you test once. Even if you managed to lose time on packaging, you’ll win that tenfold in big reports and testing.
(DIR) Post #AWJrdVvDc4WWEGudrE by loke@functional.cafe
2023-06-03T16:10:28Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @jorge I don't know about that. I've packaged one of my applications using flatpak, and I did it because doing it as a regular package would be a nightmare.And that's for something simple like Fedora, I'm not even getting into the practical impossibility of packaging my application for Debian due to their absurd dependency policies.
(DIR) Post #AWKkWaJuMCq3K1Aa5w by funnelfiasco@hachyderm.io
2023-06-03T14:16:27Z
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@jorge well this is thought-provoking. I'm not yet sure how I feel about it.
(DIR) Post #AWKkWeF5m3MZUEwn8y by jzb@mastodon.social
2023-06-03T16:18:56Z
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@jorge @funnelfiasco I think he’s entirely correct, and I feel fine about it. The value of packaging libreoffice for each distribution is just not there anymore. I would also argue that the need for a desktop office suite is waning fast. I encounter very very few people using and mailing around office formatted files. The traditional office suite is legacy.
(DIR) Post #AWKkWk4g5gb7Zg7YkC by jorge@hachyderm.io
2023-06-03T16:26:29Z
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@jzb @funnelfiasco The distro/desktop aversion to PWAs is another issue that I'd like to tackle next.Like, on install I should you should be able to pick if you use gsuite or office and then just have the all those PWA shortcuts. I have this setup by hand and it's pretty awesome. What Endless is with the gnome-software stuff is really good, I can't wait to play with it more.
(DIR) Post #AWKkWoXXUK3pQLefHk by justinz@social.opendesktop.org
2023-06-04T02:24:50Z
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@jorge definitely check out https://gluonjs.org/ when you have a moment regarding PWAs. @jzb @funnelfiasco
(DIR) Post #AWKkWvqwIajq6Xmkzo by jorge@hachyderm.io
2023-06-03T16:28:25Z
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@jzb @funnelfiasco But then people would complain that's it's some "bloated web tech" and that the real answer is to just write more GTK mail clients.Meanwhile Microsoft continues to push people towards the online apps anyway. So fine, make some dope PWA integrations and call it a day, there's other problems to solve. 😀
(DIR) Post #AWKkX91hJu4Ixfv24O by jorge@hachyderm.io
2023-06-03T17:07:58Z
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@jzb @funnelfiasco But then, on the other hand, you see this and it shows that there can be a demand for good client software: https://blog.thunderbird.net/2023/05/thunderbird-is-thriving-our-2022-financial-report/
(DIR) Post #AWKqIPjVWSFq9olmXw by jorge@hachyderm.io
2023-06-04T03:30:10Z
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@justinz @jzb @funnelfiasco Oh neat is there an app you use that uses this that you recommend?
(DIR) Post #AWKtF1RveRWlpxcc2C by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T04:03:12Z
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@popey @thelinuxEXP @jorge People kep saying that "these things take time to be fixed with Flatpak" but it's not like Flatpak is not like some kind of fresh flower anymroe. It's been around since 2015. 7 years later, it still can't do what regular packages can.
(DIR) Post #AWKxBcHJBGoGiYHlPU by justinz@social.opendesktop.org
2023-06-04T04:47:24Z
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@jorge @jzb @funnelfiasco nothing specific. I just think it's a really great project. I tried it with a few things like Element and Discord and they worked well.
(DIR) Post #AWL0oEPIAPmVq37mGe by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-04T05:27:58Z
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@boilingsteam @popey @jorge It can do 99% of it, and on top of that it’s more secure, easier for developers.This reasoning is just… weird. Wayland has been around for longer, and some use cases aren’t filled yet. The Linux desktop isn’t ready for 100% of people either. Do you also apply this reasoning to Proton? It can’t play 100% of games, and Wine has been around for 30 years.
(DIR) Post #AWL1AMrPPxUUQYpbZg by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T05:32:00Z
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@thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge Where did I imply a problem with the percentage of use cases? I specifically mentioned that some use cases are completely broken by Flakpak and there is no sign of them being fixed.I don't understand the analogy with Proton. When a game works with Proton, it works, you don't have half of its features missing or something.
(DIR) Post #AWL24ZpSO7egrhiks4 by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-04T05:42:06Z
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@boilingsteam @popey @jorge Ehhhh that’s just not true. When a game runs with proton, it might lack the cutscenes, or it might lack half the performance, or the multiplayer mode.And again, you’re taking your one KeepassXC issue and assuming every app has the same problem. It doesn’t. As of right now, Flatpak does its job better than Proton does it own. It’s just weird to criticize one and not the other for the same problem.
(DIR) Post #AWL2FZ5HUtx3jzMVaC by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T05:44:08Z
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@thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge Proton makes games work on Linux where they could not work before. We are going from 0 to thousands of games that work.Flatpak is taking packages that were working perfectly well in their original distros in the first place, and breaking their features to fix their container model. We got from apps having ZERO issues to many apps not working anymore as intended.I hope you do notice that bringing Proton on the table is an awful analogy.
(DIR) Post #AWL2YJSrnLG2ndKkfg by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-04T05:47:26Z
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@boilingsteam @popey @jorge I hope that you notice you’re arguing in bad faith? Wine ran a LOT of games. Lutris has been around since before Proton. I gamed on Linux before Proton, I’ve been doing that since 2006 😂Flatpak breaks a few things, that are being fixed, but fixes the app packaging and distribution supply chain. You’re taking one small problem to justify why we shouldn’t solve one of the biggest issue of the Linux desktop…
(DIR) Post #AWL2ombhDByrogJigS by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T05:50:30Z
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@thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge It's not one small problem. I can come up with a longer list if you want to. Try flatpak on ARM with Linux. You will see that most apps won't work because they only have x86_64 arch supported in the first place, which is nonsensical since Linux runs on pretty much any kind of hardware these days.I have been playing on Linux since 2007, so yes, I also know the world of gaming before Proton. And it was much worse, so Proton is clearly a NET positive.
(DIR) Post #AWL3E2TLMVn0GGSA52 by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-04T05:55:01Z
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@boilingsteam @popey @jorge And if you were an app developer or packager you would probably see Flatpak as a net positive as well.Like I said, Flatpak isn’t perfect, and it won’t replace regular packages for everyone overnight. But it is the way forward if we ever want to be able to focus on what is holding Linux back.
(DIR) Post #AWL3bw30ttJ3HlX3nE by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T05:59:23Z
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@thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge Flatpak has its uses. I grant you that.But the model of "ship a distro with a few packages and let flatpak handle everything else" is very, very wrong and will bite everyone in the ass before they realize it.Linux was never held back by properly working distro-maintained repositories - it was, and still is a massive advantage vs what you have on Windows and MacOS to this day. And I don't see Windows users go "Oh shit, now that you have flatpak I will jump ship"
(DIR) Post #AWL439xNILmAF5sOMC by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-04T06:04:16Z
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@boilingsteam @popey @jorge Linux is held back by the fact that tons of people work on the same thing on different platforms instead of being able to make apps better, our desktops better, or the underlying system better, and thus implementing what’s missing for Windows or max users. Do you know how to free up that time? By packaging once instead of 10 times.It’s not the role of an OS to package and distribute apps. App developers should control that.
(DIR) Post #AWL45cvCZhwoef2JiC by gnuplusmatt@fosstodon.org
2023-06-04T06:04:45Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge except flatpak brings a uniform runtime. If the runtime is standardised, and run on all distros, why duplicate that effort for no benefit.The one true source of truth (your trusted repository), becomes everyones including upstream's source of truth. Beyond this, and to your point about repos, even Fedora ships its own flatpak repositories - and most of the time they are just one for one copies of manifests from flathub anyway 😆
(DIR) Post #AWL48JlkEwby7gtcem by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T06:05:14Z
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@thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge Devs don't have to maintain packages on different distros. That's the job of package maintainers. You probably know that since you have been using Linux for so long.
(DIR) Post #AWL4NSAfHft8Wbllj6 by evilroda@wandering.shop
2023-06-04T06:07:56Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge Just wanna say, Linus Torvalds himself said that other than preinstalls, this is Linux's biggest problem, and he said it almost ten years ago at Debconf 14. He also predicted Valve would save the Linux desktop, funny enough.
(DIR) Post #AWL4Of0f2HRwdIfL2u by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-04T06:08:10Z
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@boilingsteam @popey @jorge And that’s exactly the problem. Wasted time by people who could work on the actual system instead of on distributing applications made by someone else.If you truly don’t see how this is completely backwards (and was done exclusively because app developers couldn’t be bothered to support all distributions and their packaging formats), then you’re missing the whole point of Flatpak, and this conversation can’t go anywhere.
(DIR) Post #AWL4UNYapyvuF3GR5E by Aisyk@mastodon.social
2023-06-04T06:09:11Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge Hi,Linux Gamer since 2005 (HalfLife 2 on -wine-Steam) here.2 things,Both, Proton or Flatpack have theirs issues. And both can have severe contradictions.Proton VS native games (some games works better on proton than natives, CIV6, Valheim...).Flatpak with some permissions (external drives...), runtimes deprecated (security problems).1/2
(DIR) Post #AWL4oZqypRYcAdUnZ2 by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T06:12:52Z
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@evilroda @thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge Linux Torvalds also predicted in the early days that Linux would be huge on desktops so the man can be brilliant and completely wrong at the same time when it comes to predictions
(DIR) Post #AWL4xJqLiv6F7dMwpU by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T06:14:28Z
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@thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge > If you truly don’t see how this is completely backwards Maybe you should go back to using Windows if you consider the work of package maintainers on dozens of distros to be useless and backward...
(DIR) Post #AWL5eFwQ6hfZTKgNs0 by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-04T06:22:10Z
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@boilingsteam @popey @jorgeThe strength of your arguments is incredible. I yield. « If you think there’s a problem and want to solve it, go back to Windows ». Nice. Have a nice day 😂😂
(DIR) Post #AWL5nAv88yDkVTKf8S by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T06:23:49Z
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@thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge No, I am just making you aware that what you are recommending is the Windows model, where you have one binary/package that works everywhere.That defeats all kind of innovation than can be created by multiple distros in terms of package managers and ways of packaging applications.
(DIR) Post #AWL63MFhmPdyHjfkxM by Aisyk@mastodon.social
2023-06-04T06:12:02Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge And both, cames with theirs giant step.Flatpak permits to install QT applications without installing QT dependencies on your GTK system.Proton enlarge your games compatibility lists and with -sometimes- better performances than windows.So, i don't think it's on the issues we can discuss.Better with the goal of theses :Proton is it better for native Linux gaming ?Flatpak is really secure ?
(DIR) Post #AWL63MrHWhhYAHFlWi by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T06:26:44Z
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@Aisyk @thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge Flatpak still installs those dependencies as part of runtimes, that can (and will be) poorly maintained. It's much more difficult to debug what is going wrong within a flatpak than what is going wrong with a package with its dependencies in a regular distro.
(DIR) Post #AWL67519neGLzVdtqq by peteriskrisjanis@toot.lv
2023-06-04T06:27:23Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge I don't think that is intention of Flatpak or any app container system at all. There are certain things at desktop level like window drawing libraries who might be packaged for distribution, but they change quite rapidly. Flatpak can ensure that neither user, or developer has to worry about that. Rest of distribution is still pretty much old school tightly packaged and compiled together.
(DIR) Post #AWL697ICJSlDcqaHuC by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-04T06:27:46Z
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@boilingsteam @popey @jorge Not at all, you’re mistaking repos and packages.The repo model is wonderful, the way apps are fed into repos isn’t. Your OS shouldn’t decide if you get the latest update of an app. It shouldn’t decide if an app makes it to the repos either. Flatpak (and other similar formats) IS the innovation on the packaging space.
(DIR) Post #AWL6IhZ4p5CsjD39gO by jorge@hachyderm.io
2023-06-04T06:29:29Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @popey This isn't the windows model at all, this is the linux model. 😀
(DIR) Post #AWL6VMR4gwEsxiLLhA by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T06:31:43Z
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@peteriskrisjanis @thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge Yes, this is true. This is one problem that is solved with Flatpak, which is especially relevant with distros running on much older packages for example. But this comes at the expense of having multiple runtimes installed because in practice this is what happens with every flatpak out there: they end up requiring dozens of different versions of runtimes, which is in itself a little messy
(DIR) Post #AWL6mX7OEAIV14KAN6 by peteriskrisjanis@toot.lv
2023-06-04T06:34:53Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge but Flatpak reuses as much as it can, if apps require same runtime, no runtimes will be required or installed. And I know there are even more efforts to make them diff so they would even require less space.Space issue is well known to me 😅 one wishlist item - i wish I had time to write code - is to make nice UI for managing Flatpak disk space for other volumes.It is not perfect. But it is usable
(DIR) Post #AWL6p1yYTGKRIYNncW by jorge@hachyderm.io
2023-06-04T06:35:21Z
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@boilingsteam @peteriskrisjanis @thelinuxEXP @popey So what? If the choice is using disk space, so the application can work, or not using diskspace and having the application not work at all, which is worse? Have you measured the impact on disk? Try it, install your favorite 20 apps in a traditional setup and then an opensuse aeon and see what you find. 😀
(DIR) Post #AWL6qkO4ppj9KP8g7M by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T06:35:40Z
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@thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge First. everywhere in the world your OS decides if you can get the latest version of an app. Windows does it, macOS does it, Android does it, and even iOS does it for devices that are not on the latest iOS version anymore. this is not specific to Linux at all.(continued)
(DIR) Post #AWL6wACKIdyOpGE2S0 by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T06:36:39Z
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@thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge Second, there are many ways to do that without relying on doing flatpak packaging. You can do static library linking on Linux too if you want to distribute something complete without having to care about the packages in your OS.The point of relying on your distro package is for consistency. You know that not every single software is going to use a different library. this is typically how you end up with software specific security issues.
(DIR) Post #AWL75lVMxhkD8ci9Eu by jorge@hachyderm.io
2023-06-04T06:38:21Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @popey What about the things not in the distro? The software that I actually need?
(DIR) Post #AWL7EA0BlZN7Qn86TI by boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud
2023-06-04T06:39:55Z
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@jorge @thelinuxEXP @popey Great, you can use flatpak for such use cases then. My point is it should be an exception, not the default for every software in your distro.
(DIR) Post #AWL7TUcJP2L9i8Gxmq by jorge@hachyderm.io
2023-06-04T06:42:40Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @popey No one is saying that it should be the default for all software on the systemOnly for the graphical application layer, we're talking about two different layers in the stack entirely, they're decoupled for a reason so that you can they can rev independently. System revs with the kernel/hardware, the applications rev at their own pace.
(DIR) Post #AWL7kPURiYLUjVezfE by thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social
2023-06-04T06:45:42Z
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@boilingsteam @popey @jorge No, that’s not true. On Windows, macOS, iOS, Android, the app developer pushes the updates to the store, and the user gets it. If an update is blocked, it’s because the app doesn’t conform to the rules of the platform.
(DIR) Post #AWLAOBYR9Irp0JcYc4 by razze@osna.social
2023-06-04T07:15:15Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge there is a portal in the works to fix this, so there are certainty "signs of this being fixed"
(DIR) Post #AWLwPg5Hv9bxmQlRHE by sfalken@mastodon.naturalorder.me
2023-06-04T16:13:25Z
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@thelinuxEXP @popey @jorge @boilingsteam I *am* a Package Maintainer, and have been for years, and *I* consider alot of the work I put in to be useless duplication of effort. So thanks, but don't presume to speak for me, or lots of other Package Maintainers. I can't count the number of hours I've wasted, tracking down edge case bugs in $distro packaging on an end-user application.
(DIR) Post #AWLz2J37hK1PXaIaH2 by jorge@hachyderm.io
2023-06-04T16:42:48Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @popey Nobody is saying that distro work is useless and backwards.
(DIR) Post #AWMAWhp9FYI2YqSbBY by popey@ubuntu.social
2023-06-04T18:51:33Z
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@boilingsteam @thelinuxEXP @jorge Do you pay those package maintainers? Because you need a lot of them, and they're quite skilled people. They're expensive. They could be doing better things than packaging the same software over and over.