Post AWA4iJQDLQJlqSWBge by oliverturner@toot.cafe
(DIR) More posts by oliverturner@toot.cafe
(DIR) Post #AW7r8kpkGOQSiSFqYi by cypnk@hackers.town
2023-05-28T19:58:34Z
4 likes, 6 repeats
Imma throw out this phone
(DIR) Post #AW7rbCcyWGLh1fqYYi by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-28T21:13:04.452452Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cypnk > The Independent> not an independent (readers funded) newspaper
(DIR) Post #AWA2YowH6sumn0rQ1Y by oliverturner@toot.cafe
2023-05-29T22:18:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @cypnk Making income from advertising doesn't mean that the journalism isn't independent or that it isn't reader funded.If you bought a physical copy of literally any newspaper it would also contain advertising.
(DIR) Post #AWA2YphQHad39Ev4Vs by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-29T22:25:11.447269Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@oliverturner @cypnk Advertisers want control over the content, they do not want to be right next to something they disagree with or worse, something that would hurt them in a way or another.> If you bought a physical copy of literally any newspaper it would also contain advertising.Not in my experience of actual independent newspapers. Closest could be like local announces in some of them, which aren't ads (no attached revenue, it's considered to be a zero-sum-game).
(DIR) Post #AWA4iJQDLQJlqSWBge by oliverturner@toot.cafe
2023-05-29T22:38:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @cypnk Advertisers don’t get control over content: tooling determines which ads are displayed next to content, not what content is displayed.Can you give me examples of the independent newspapers you read that don’t accept income from advertisers ?
(DIR) Post #AWA4iKEuIwrqNgEfhY by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-29T22:49:26.626473Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oliverturner @cypnk Advertisers pretty much do, usually not directly (sponsored articles are a thing), but you know that some type of content basically means less/no revenue from ads.mediapart.fr and lwn.net are the ones that comes to my mind.
(DIR) Post #AWA6QkCDGB81ZzigXA by oliverturner@toot.cafe
2023-05-29T23:01:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @cypnk As someone who works for an independent newspaper that is reader-supported but also makes money from advertising, I can assure you that advertisers don’t get to influence content.
(DIR) Post #AWA6Qkusa6rDoWcM9g by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-29T23:08:35.535828Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oliverturner @cypnk And somehow you're not *dependent* on their money?
(DIR) Post #AWA9AvD4qI2Uy4GrE8 by oliverturner@toot.cafe
2023-05-29T23:19:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @cypnk as stated before: we are reader-supported. Readers subscribe based on our reputation for editorial independence. It makes business sense to ensure that advertisers have no influence on content.
(DIR) Post #AWA9Aw0hrljpRzUUaG by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-29T23:39:23.731307Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oliverturner @cypnk Aren't most if not all newspapers reader-supported? (And in actual press, not something like a promotional magazine)And I'm pretty sure you've seen some newspapers where about half of their pages are ads, yet they have quite a lot of subscribers.Would you also define those as independent?
(DIR) Post #AWAgmjaDocYUOqjcCe by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2023-05-30T05:56:29.857Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@oliverturner@toot.cafe @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @cypnk@hackers.town Advertisers don’t get control over contentMan, imagine unironically believing this.
(DIR) Post #AWAmV7aGRTy1LhjtkO by oliverturner@toot.cafe
2023-05-30T06:55:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tyil @lanodan @cypnk Explain to me how it works please 😀
(DIR) Post #AWAmV8NBVb6BnQcy00 by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2023-05-30T07:00:33.302Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@oliverturner@toot.cafe @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @cypnk@hackers.town Apart from your very obvious bad faith intentions here, which isn't unexpected from someone who thinks himself a "journalist"..."Sponsored content" is literally an advertiser telling someone what kind of content to produce, and get paid for it. It's not rare, it's even the norm for the vast majority of "news" outlets. "Independent" journalism doesn't exist the second you make it a for-profit company.
(DIR) Post #AWAnKW25InHnwbG6RE by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2023-05-30T07:09:51.285Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oliverturner@toot.cafe @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @cypnk@hackers.town And even if you go without sponsored content, the second you start introducing ads as your revenue stream, you're changing from being focused on actual, factual, neutral reporting, to whatever you need to do to get views, because those are worth money. You make yourself dependent on the advertisers for your income.Even if you don't want to believe it, your intentions shift because you're no longer truly independent. You are subservient to the advertisers.
(DIR) Post #AWAnqmHqPAG1ce0vfk by oliverturner@toot.cafe
2023-05-30T07:11:12Z
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@tyil @lanodan @cypnk wow… a lot to unpack here! What do you believe I’m arguing with my “obvious bad faith intentions”? When did you decide that I “think I’m a journalist”? Why do you feel the need to ‘splain what sponsored content is? Are you even sure your definition is correct?
(DIR) Post #AWAnqn1Zf8pxuTPRx2 by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2023-05-30T07:15:40.829Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oliverturner@toot.cafe @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @cypnk@hackers.town What do you believe I’m arguing with my “obvious bad faith intentions”? Well, this entire post. You're deliberately trying to nitpick things rather than engage with anything I actually said. You don't want to discuss, you just want to pretend so you can feel good about yourself for a couple minutes.Retarded statements like "wow… a lot to unpack here!" are a very clear giveaway too. It's shows you're about to go into dumb shit rather than actually engage in a conversation, because that was never your intention.
(DIR) Post #AWAoQJHJjdou4xi7Ci by oliverturner@toot.cafe
2023-05-30T07:15:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tyil @lanodan @cypnk I started off by explaining that advertising revenue is critical to newspapers, but your claim that that fact alone means they aren’t independent really needs some factual support.
(DIR) Post #AWAoQJsXVFatwP7qDo by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2023-05-30T07:22:06.254Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@oliverturner@toot.cafe @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @cypnk@hackers.town advertising revenue is critical to newspapersIs it, though? It existed the first 100 years without ads. It's certainly possible, but greed got in the way and now the entire field of "journalism" has turned into a cruel joke.You may want to re-assess your desire for factual support when you can't even bother to care for the absolute bare minimum yourself. It's a pathetic way to try gaslight any potential readers.
(DIR) Post #AWAon3QGqsmNZ2kAuu by oliverturner@toot.cafe
2023-05-30T07:20:32Z
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@tyil I’m literally engaging withyou on the specific points you’ve made: the nature of my intentions, whether I think I’m a journalist, and your claim that advertising precludes journalistic independence.That’s three topics, which I’d argue is a lot to unpack!
(DIR) Post #AWAon49I9Un9ofo85g by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2023-05-30T07:26:13.055Z
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@oliverturner@toot.cafe While still ignoring literally anything I actually talked about.You yourself claimed to be knowledgeable about anything in the news world "because you worked in it", which is a pretty dumb way to pretend you know anything at all.Every post you make showcases a very clear intent to not have any discussion, you just want to be retarded on the Internet. This is fine in general, but don't act surprised when people start calling you a retard on the Internet.And advertising is mutually exclusive with independent journalism. You're introducing a very specific means of making money of something that isn't meant to make money. "News" is not a business, its just things that happen. Making it into a business means you've diluted "news" in search of greed.
(DIR) Post #AWApTyJthRniBrE9vE by oliverturner@toot.cafe
2023-05-30T07:31:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tyil okay, bored now: you’re rude, ignorant and now it turns out you’re ableist too. Nice.I should have muted you a while back. Correcting that oversight now.
(DIR) Post #AWApTyvpQQ8s5UyS2q by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2023-05-30T07:33:59.213Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oliverturner@toot.cafe gets an answerdoesn't interact but pretends he just has more questionsgets more answers to everything he asked aboutyeah nah I didn't like the answersConfirmed journo
(DIR) Post #AWAsAWS5O5sa7UTVIG by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-30T08:03:31.736875Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tyil Pretty fun that citing mediapart didn't make him re-assess things…https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediapart
(DIR) Post #AWAshMXTGVwUvmeYM4 by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2023-05-30T08:10:00.008Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me I hadn't heard of Mediapart, nor looked them up, but I've noticed that anyone says that something cannot exist without ads is usually only one search away of being proven wrong. The pervasiveness of advertisements are (relatively) new, and pretty much everything we would want as a society has existed without them for quite a while.So far every single person I've encountered who defends ads has had an ulterior motive, generally borne out of greed.
(DIR) Post #AWAtqUcagSNmYixub2 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-30T08:22:22.940386Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tyil Yeah, it's a french newspaper but I think it's known internationally at least between newspapers as it's one of the rare investigative newspapers around.Looking a bit more in french investigative ones also reminds me that Le Canard Enchaîné has also been there since 1915, which is more surprising in terms of lack of censorship (yeah…😢️) rather than budgeting.> So far every single person I've encountered who defends ads has had an ulterior motive, generally borne out of greed.Or they are incredibly naïve.
(DIR) Post #AWAumqGiMGdUUaYWno by oliverturner@toot.cafe
2023-05-30T08:31:38Z
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@tyil unfortunate discovery of the day: muting doesn’t prevent notifications of responses from the unpleasant simpleton you’ve muted.> Gets an answer. It’s incoherent and wrong.Asks where these bizarre assumptions are coming from> More turgid nonsense, accusations of non-engagement Calmly explains that the central premise is flawed, directly addressing the point> More incoherent whingeing, now with added ableism!A wild mute appears. It’s super ineffective!Bye now 👋
(DIR) Post #AWAumqrw7sPUM1yFou by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2023-05-30T08:33:24.100Z
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@oliverturner@toot.cafe This guy can't even properly mute anyone, nor can he engage with content that contains words he emotionally can't deal with just yet, but he's here to show you the true power of the modern Journalist(tm)!
(DIR) Post #AWAvJhBV9ZodsImcz2 by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2023-05-30T08:39:20.811Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me it's one of the rare investigative newspapers aroundIt's rare indeed, but I do applaud their insistence to stay away from advertising. They've seen through the thin veil of greed, it looks like, and they won't give it an inch. A good example to anyone who wants to consider themselves a journalist, do not compromise on being able to bring news to your audience.which is more surprising in terms of lack of censorshipFrom a simple search it looks like they're satirical. I've burned out on satire news, so I'm not really into that anymore. I also don't speak French so that may not help here.I think a lack of censorship is desirable in journalism, though.Or they are incredibly naïveThis happens, but calling a naive person out on their naivete is usually enough. Inherently bad people will get upset and find excuses as to why your opinion doesn't matter. I don't need to point out which of the two I think the journalist in this thread was.
(DIR) Post #AWAwnfU68eihFBKzbc by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-30T08:55:28.116910Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tyil Yeah, I'm not on satirical news either that said Le Canard Enchaîné isn't parodic like The Onion but more like a harshly-critical newspaper presenting via humor (ridicule, wordplay, …), it's fun to read once in a while.> I don't need to point out which of the two I think the journalist in this thread was.Yup.