Post AVmMIfwYO4Y8cSCiNU by lain_7@tldr.nettime.org
(DIR) More posts by lain_7@tldr.nettime.org
(DIR) Post #AVlPOtbEdGdXPmvjYu by niconiconi@mk.absturztau.be
2023-05-18T01:13:55.649Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
Since GNU/Guix has made it possible to bootstrap an entire amd64 system from literally nothing, we need a new fork of Linux From Scratch, now starting with manually typing machine code into the disk.
(DIR) Post #AVlQQW675CnB3fi5Fw by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-18T01:23:46.698606Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@niconiconi Just like my Oric Atmos.
(DIR) Post #AVlREgJRNVMPDbrdo0 by niconiconi@mk.absturztau.be
2023-05-18T01:34:29.224Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me I said "manually typing machine code into the disk" for a reason - I didn't say "without OS". The latter one is a more difficult problem to solve. :woozy_baa: How do you even do this anymore on a standard desktop computer with a release-build BIOS? No togging switches, no paper tape reader, no serial port booting support, no debug console.. Unless you can find a BIOS code execution exploit (TBH, not unlikely), using a small microcontroller is the only remaining option - which, not by coincidence, was how mainframes were booted historically and desktop CPUs are booted today...
(DIR) Post #AVlS8hJArZk8WVRy40 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-18T01:44:10.483888Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@niconiconi Well Oric Atmos like most 6502-era home computers includes enough of embedded software to have a BASIC operating system in 16KB (yup, even smaller than some size-coded demos).And I think a BIOS on a real computer should include something similar, in fact sparc and macppc machines comes with OpenFirmware which gives you a glorious Forth prompt.
(DIR) Post #AVlSj5djsMfWPaQFKS by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-18T01:50:47.799635Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@niconiconi Which makes me wish there would be OS bootstrapping for other than fucking x86.
(DIR) Post #AVlT0usqbeKGGQzPn6 by niconiconi@mk.absturztau.be
2023-05-18T01:54:24.832Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me On the Altair 8800's original model, the first step after booting is entering the paper tape bootloader machine code into RAM using the toggling switches on the front-panel. The bits from toggling switches were injected directly to the CPU and RAM with the help of a few logic chips.
(DIR) Post #AVlTAlscw6C9EgaMm8 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-18T01:54:56.939030Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@niconiconi Finally no more fucking blobs.
(DIR) Post #AVlTVxkZzwVu8EvUf2 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-18T01:59:38.859141Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@niconiconi That said there's 0 reasons why the paper tape cannot just be purely mechanicals like you know, clockwork automata. (Loud mech keyboard users are gonna be jelly)
(DIR) Post #AVlW5zRrMV1BjQTe08 by niconiconi@mk.absturztau.be
2023-05-18T02:28:55.371Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me The hard-wired control logic inside the CPU is arguably a form of "code" (in the most general sense of the word), since PLA / ROM is the standard way to implement decoding. You send several bits to the ROM, and the ROM gives several bits back to you, so ROM is a universal, reprogramable logic building block. But calling it a "binary blob" would be way over the top. Now replace it with a EPROM, then it would be closer to a binary blob. Develop this concept further and you get microcode, develop it even further and you get Intel ME. So microcode is always a borderline case (BTW, it's why FSF decided to completely ignore any code not touched by external software no matter how it's implemented).
(DIR) Post #AVlWksYvrtvcFSHaTI by niconiconi@mk.absturztau.be
2023-05-18T02:36:20.979Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me Chip designs are not copyrightable before 1989, so whether microcode is a form of software and thus making the whole CPU copyrightable was argued in many lawsuits, like the Intel/AMD ones.
(DIR) Post #AVlXw2bEzSzEWAFTpA by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-18T02:49:08.413891Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@niconiconi it should have stayed non-copyrightable >:(
(DIR) Post #AVlYFM0T3nP0D2G1pY by niconiconi@mk.absturztau.be
2023-05-18T02:53:03.088Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me The chip design copyright law is great, the term is just 10 years. Software copyright should be like that.
(DIR) Post #AVlYmylJzL9nxqCsC0 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-18T02:58:42.568047Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@niconiconi Copyright originally was just something like 20 years, like patents.I did consider putting copyright expiration in my software but well I typically use fairly permissive/compatible licences anyway.
(DIR) Post #AVlZ1M89tzqEUgkBzU by allison@hidamari.apartments
2023-05-18T03:01:31.839775Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @niconiconi In the United States, originally 14 years renewable once if registered by the copyright office. Now of course things are far different. Mask works are actually sane because they're designed to solve a real problem and not just enable infinite rent seeking.
(DIR) Post #AVlZI9dhb6cKfyVaBU by niconiconi@mk.absturztau.be
2023-05-18T03:04:46.365Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@allison@hidamari.apartments @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me "How long until we have to sign a license agreement before we can use an OpAmp? Oh, and the license is only valid for consumer applications. Want to use the OpAmp for enterprise applications? That'll cost you more.""That's if we're lucky. In a darker scenario, all OpAmp designs have been bought by Apple, and you can't even use one if you opened your iPhone because the function has been integrated into the CPU. "
(DIR) Post #AVlZylassEC2YJVdaq by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-18T03:11:58.435926Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@allison @niconiconi At least I'm pretty glad there isn't a copyright office anymore (I don't think there was one in France anyway, more like law centers / right owners, yes France might be the origin of the copyright mafia…).
(DIR) Post #AVlaFNmAgJEJbaiCBc by allison@hidamari.apartments
2023-05-18T03:15:07.120978Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @niconiconi I blame the Swiss, personally.
(DIR) Post #AVlaPYn2aPr2f0yIe8 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-18T03:16:32.584186Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@allison @niconiconi That also wouldn't surprise me…
(DIR) Post #AVlaUbIig6ZztcC0LA by allison@hidamari.apartments
2023-05-18T03:18:03.139711Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @niconiconi They're the ones who imposed it on the world at large at the very least.
(DIR) Post #AVlbKBWnkK2V1NNPHc by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-18T03:27:08.289448Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@allison @niconiconi Thinking of the Berne convention?French copyright predates it, heck you can even find it's roots in Letters Patent during Monarchy which apparently got kept during revolution.In fact, fuck the Frenchs, 1793 copyright law put it as copyright expiration 10 years after author's death, and extended to 50 years in 1866.
(DIR) Post #AVlbVinAPayFNBX4Yi by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-18T03:29:13.411584Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@allison @niconiconi Heh, SACEM (music copyright mafia, founded in 1851, maybe was more honorable back then though) also predates Berne Convention (1886~1887).
(DIR) Post #AVlcRAjnBQkWYDLfpQ by allison@hidamari.apartments
2023-05-18T03:39:49.421055Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @niconiconi Probably. Fact is tho, that insanity was mostly restricted to France and the immediate surroundings until the Swiss got the bright idea to try forcing the "continental" system on the rest of the world and mostly succeeding (with the United States being the last major holdout as it usually is in such things)
(DIR) Post #AVmMIfwYO4Y8cSCiNU by lain_7@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-18T11:29:53Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@niconiconi @lanodan That was the first step in booting the ARPANet, too. 16-word boot loader toggled in the front panel (when all else failed).Could boot from paper tape (we used Mylar tape --- the chad was a clingy nightmare) or from the next IMP (router) across the leased line.Talking janitors and security guards through the process late at night was always fun.
(DIR) Post #AVmV2jj7S75ZJ6OXOi by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2023-05-18T13:51:47.314941Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@niconiconi rms has already written GNU from scratch, why would you need to rewrite it?
(DIR) Post #AVmXIEDcZ9yg81B0aG by niconiconi@mk.absturztau.be
2023-05-18T14:17:05.430Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com not rewrite, the existing code is used, just to reinstall the bootstrap.