Post AViv7UGoASOUzdErYG by rakoo@blah.rako.space
(DIR) More posts by rakoo@blah.rako.space
(DIR) Post #AVUPiRsBz24gCskVVI by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T17:28:18Z
5 likes, 12 repeats
Fucking Christ the @protocol is the most obtuse crock of shit I've ever looked at. It is complex solely for the sake of being complex and still suffers from *all* of the same problems as Mastodon.Your server goes down? Sorry, all of your followers are lost. Account portability is no better than Mastodon. 'DIDs' serve literally no purpose. And none of the API code that Bluesky uses in their own app validates ANY of the crypto they're doing on the server. NONE OF IT.
(DIR) Post #AVUPiTlWwlvy4neDOi by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T17:29:53Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
Not only that, but instead of just... making a simple Rest API spec or something simple, they REINVENTED THE FUCKING WHEEL and made 'XRPC' and 'Lexicon', AKA a shittier, less flexible version of OpenAPI and JSON Schema (respectively) that works with absolutely NO existing tooling.
(DIR) Post #AVUPiVWiOpGtXQjPaC by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T17:31:54Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
The actual protocol itself is poorly confused and incredibly awfully designed. Because of the useless bullshit crypto they're putting into it, it requires you to write a server that's strongly consistent with other servers. THAT IS EXTRAORDINARILY HARD TO DO!! And BLUESKY'S OWN SERVERS DON'T HANDLE THE EDGE CASES!!!It uses pull-based federation instead of push-based like Mastodon. You have to write a separate 'indexer' that has your 'feed' on it. That requires a LOT more resources.
(DIR) Post #AVUPiXFlymuKtSouS8 by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T17:33:26Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
And because things must be strongly consistent, AND because any user can REWRITE THEIR OWN FUCKING HISTORY AT ANY TIME, you have to, as an indexer, account for lots of different edge cases where your recorded history diverges.The protocol for federation is built to make federation as difficult and painful as possible. It is built so that Bluesky, the private company that makes the protocol, is the only 'indexer', the only one with a whole view of the network.
(DIR) Post #AVUPiZ96wWlclNicLY by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T17:35:40Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
WHY DOES A FEDERATION PROTOCOL NEED USER AUTH API METHODS IN IT???? WHY DOES A FEDERATION PROTOCOL NEED A CONCEPT OF 'INVITE CODES'??????Oh wait, BECAUSE IT ISN'T A FEDERATION PROTOCOL!!! It's literally JUST the API for Bluesky. That's it.It's quite literally impossible to use this in more flexible environments. You just can't. You cannot build anything on this because it is so poorly designed and isn't generic enough.
(DIR) Post #AVUPiaxUCiemNuIMVM by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T17:38:06Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
And I went into this with an open mind. I was like "I'll just make a simple alternative to the BlueSky server in Elixir". But it CAN'T be a simple implementation like ActivityPub can be, because it is extraordinarily complex and requires you to make guarantees about your storage and how your application works. It turns out using Git, which is almost always used with a centralized 'remote', to do federation, which needs to be weakly consistent, IS A BAD IDEA!!!!!
(DIR) Post #AVUPicYOGzlrKeZLfM by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T17:42:41Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
What this comes back to is... who cares about any of the crypto bullshit? Having a private key and signing everything with it proves nothing because that private key must have a reputation.You can verify a domain on Mastodon. You can point a domain to a Mastodon server. You can do that with Pleroma. You can make your own alternative to Mastodon that works exactly like how Bluesky works with domains, but it would take a 4th of the time because ActivityPub is simple to implement!!!!
(DIR) Post #AVUPieN7VrwayHJNNQ by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T17:45:19Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
The ONE thing that this protocol brings to the table is the idea of strong consistency in federation. The only issue is, it makes that strong consistency so resource intensive and so hard to implement that it decreases community servers' ability and ease of federation!!!!And also, NOBODY CARES ABOUT STRONG CONSISTENCY IN SOCIAL NETWORKS!!! Social networks are built on the idea that we all have a different view of things. We care about seeing stuff from our friends, not seeing EVERYTHING.
(DIR) Post #AVUPigTZgqINUsLYiO by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T17:47:10Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
The 'account portability' piece is bullshit! The way 'account portability' works is by having two separate keys, one for signing and one as a 'recovery' key. You're supposed to be able to use the 'recovery' key to rewrite history if your account gets hacked or some shit. WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT AS SERVER ADMINS!!! MASTODON HAS THIS ALREADY!!Additionally, if a Bluesky server goes down, their way of keeping access to your data is by STORING ALL OF IT ON YOUR DEVICE!!!!
(DIR) Post #AVUPiiArNOVulPbdp2 by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T17:49:54Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
Imagine if I had to store the 50k+ tweets I've made on Twitter on my device, and upload ALL of them to a new server whenever a community server went down. Imagine being a server admin having to deal with people uploading tons of JSON data and media a whole bunch at a time. And if you're implementing the protocol correctly, EACH JSON BLOB REQUIRES VERIFYING THE SIGNATURE!! So you'd have to do 50K SIGNATURE VERIFICATIONS! WHICH IS CPU INTENSIVE!!! AND SLOWS DOWN THE SERVER!!!
(DIR) Post #AVUPijrn5GRs0qhRNQ by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T17:53:03Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
Additionally, the domain name is NOT your identifier. If you have a custom domain, that is NOT your identifier. Instead you have a 'DID:PLC', which is a kind of 'DID' (invented by, not a surprise, CRYPTO PEOPLE).There is NOTHING FUNDAMENTALLY USEFUL ABOUT THIS IN FEDERATION. Because this DID is never made visible to a user, it is not human readable (it's a hash), and it doesn't do anything!!!
(DIR) Post #AVUPila8hrW9KgSN8q by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T18:00:05Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
And if you're wondering why this senseless overcomplication wreaks of the same crypto overcomplication, it's because THE CEO IS A CRYPTO PERSON!!!! The entire protocol is just layering on top of a lot of some useless, bullshit standards that the crypto community built.
(DIR) Post #AVUYQIVown3tY8hl4a by rolle@mementomori.social
2023-05-09T22:01:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam This is exactly what I've been speculating for a while now. Thanks for confirming my worries about #Bluesky #Blueskysocial.
(DIR) Post #AVUdOFWLb9D3SmnHAO by frumble@chaos.social
2023-05-09T22:51:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam You’ve made an excellent analysis here! I recommend you to blog this standalone as a blog article. Would be better to link to on Twitter and … Bluesky, I guess? The message that the protocol is designed around a main instance etc. is very important.
(DIR) Post #AVUdOGQiDaIQHbAI1Q by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-05-09T23:00:07.829044Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
> The message that the protocol is designed around a main instance etc. is very important.I thought this was obvious based on their thinly veiled legal threats here
(DIR) Post #AVUyfEFtebVrV12LWC by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T21:46:41Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
I think the fundamental reason why we keep seeing more and more bullshit protocols and projects pop up like this is one fundamental mindset: a refusal to attribute the problems of the modern internet solely to capitalism.The fact is that our protocols we have today generally work pretty great. The choice of protocols hasn't made the internet what it is today. It's the fact that unrestrained, late-stage neoliberal capitalism is reaching its logical conclusion: corporate control of commons.
(DIR) Post #AVUyfEw57lFzbqm2Gu by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T21:50:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
There's a fundamental lack of trust in people with these protocols. That's exactly it. Crypto assumes that everyone is an attacker and that nobody can be trusted, and so we need 'proof' of your actions. Bluesky assumes the same, that you should have to prove that each social media post is yours cryptographically. And the fact is just that that's not necessary. Mastodon's system works while requiring trust, and it scales remarkably well in an anticapitalist way.
(DIR) Post #AVUyfFYio6AJXgqtV2 by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T21:52:03Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Obviously mastodon isn't perfect, I don't think it is. There's definitely a general 'NIMBY' vibe here of "this is how things are and we refuse to change", and we have work to do to fix that.But I think what's key is to keep an anticapitalist mindset. We can make things easier for users without allowing in what makes social media so fucking awful: capitalism.
(DIR) Post #AVUyfG8sdf5ZLpllrM by doug@union.place
2023-05-09T22:29:54Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@sam I've really enjoyed your posts today, thank you.Further to your insights, I also think Mastodon isn't for everybody, and people seem to want to blame Mastodon for that. Calckey isn't for me, nor is pleroma, nor friendica. But I refuse to create accounts on instances running that software and bleat that they're "doing it wrong" somehow.None of these are supposed to, nor expected, ro replicate other social media platforms, but my, the freedom of choice is phenomenal now!
(DIR) Post #AVVADOHE03SzvD9N8C by Polychrome@poly.cybre.city
2023-05-10T05:08:22.954630Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sam just to clarify when you type "CRYPTO" do you mean cryptography or cryptocurrency? It feels like you're referring to these interchangeably and I can't tell which is which.
(DIR) Post #AVW471m4LUXTpL7V0C by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T21:56:14Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
Also I don't care if I'm spreading FUD or if I'm wrong on some of this stuff. I spent an insane amount of time reading the docs and looking at implementation code, moreso than most other people. If I'm getting anything wrong, it's the fault of the Bluesky authors for not having an understandable protocol and for not bothering to document it correctly.
(DIR) Post #AVWcr38L1NpZnxeWSe by dgp@c.im
2023-05-09T23:14:21Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sam As a capitalist political moderate, I agree 100% with you on this. We have already seen the disastrous consequences of "engagement-optimized" ad-supported social media systems, which are inevitable when they are being fully controlled by single for-profit companies.
(DIR) Post #AVWcukgHZM3DjYIMfA by irenes@mastodon.social
2023-05-09T22:35:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam for whatever it's worth, we also dug deep on the DID parts of this in particular, and agree with your assessment of it
(DIR) Post #AVWculpBJklPHRSzAm by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T22:46:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@irenes I tried so hard and I still don't understand how it's any different from a UUID lol
(DIR) Post #AVWcunzBHXwzz2A02K by irenes@mastodon.social
2023-05-09T22:47:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam it's different in that it allows you to choose from a long list of officially recognized pyramid schemes to pay money into to be allowed to have it!
(DIR) Post #AVWcurXK542kzn9oAa by irenes@mastodon.social
2023-05-09T22:48:25Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sam (please note that in its current incarnation, Bluesky doesn't actually use the official DID functionality. it uses a non-standard DNS-based thing they came up with because DID doesn't live up to its own stated ideals, so they wanted something that did. those ideals are bad ones though, DNS is a tool of state power.)
(DIR) Post #AVWcuu54cYEGt2xn3Q by irenes@mastodon.social
2023-05-09T22:51:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam (anarcho-capitalists can't even get the anarchy parts right, heh. capital is embedded in the state, and that matters.)
(DIR) Post #AVWcwElnBX7hLHa41Y by husbandpanda@mstdn.party
2023-05-10T01:06:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @mmasnick it's worth reading Sam 's analysis of bluesky. It's got the same crypto idiot bigbrain problems I see with lots of shitty crypto things.
(DIR) Post #AVWcwFfnpHvU8zmnKK by mmasnick@mastodon.social
2023-05-10T04:56:33Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@husbandpanda i read it earlier. some interesting points. but in my experience it's not "crypto idiot" thinking. they have a plan, and explored lots of tradeoffs. there were reasons for the decisions they made. they've been pretty open about them.
(DIR) Post #AVWd1YrBvfWR5ae2Fs by sam@urbanists.social
2023-05-09T22:49:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@doug I dont think this is a useful way to talk about this. Mastodon has a higher learning curve and I feel like there are definitely ways we can and should reduce it. Criticism of Mastodon should be looked at seriously, especially when it's from black people, as this space is overwhelmingly white. That criticism may be frustrating to engage with, but I think we could be more welcoming on this.
(DIR) Post #AVWd1ZX1Q8yzBKDRSK by hirad@mastodon.hirad.it
2023-05-10T10:57:30Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sam @doug Come on! Why should everything be about race?! Based on what you say #Mastodon is overwhelmingly white? And even if it was, it wouldn't be because there is a gate that only allows whites in!Also, there are people other than "white" and "black" too. Criticism of brown people matters more too? What about Asians? I'm asking cuz I wanna know how important or irrelevant my criticism is with your logic.
(DIR) Post #AVWd1a19c75MgmJVQG by anildash@me.dm
2023-05-10T15:04:13Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@hirad @sam @doug you're exactly the fucking problem. Hope that helps.
(DIR) Post #AVWd1zMzM4PDJjinQW by anildash@me.dm
2023-05-10T15:03:36Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @doug this is the most salient thing — I've been on both of these platforms for as long as they've existed, and was involved in the predecessor work that led to them, in many cases, and simply put — there are lots of valid reasons why most of my network from Black twitter is either on, or considering, Bluesky, and isn't on Mastodon. And "their protocol sucks differently" isn't one of the concerns.
(DIR) Post #AVaFuxTsSVIV7PShqi by hirad@mastodon.hirad.it
2023-05-10T15:28:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@anildash @sam @doug But I thought whites are the problem! Which is it?How am I the problem exactly? You don’t even know me. What part of my post made me so evil that makes you calling me "the problem"? Just because I said something you are disagree with? Isn’t that childish?
(DIR) Post #AVaFv6gGFpYDeQKDtw by jeff@federated.fun
2023-05-12T16:05:40.399416Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@hirad @anildash @sam @doug it's illegal to not hate on white people in the usa rn.
(DIR) Post #AVaFzZ74U8zUzUzX0a by givemefoxes@infosec.exchange
2023-05-09T18:14:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam This thread is a good counter to the "normal people don't care about protocols" takesThey sure will if no one builds for it because it's a PITA
(DIR) Post #AVaFzbXjRzVOWlTqqG by jeff@federated.fun
2023-05-12T16:06:36.605092Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@givemefoxes @sam the sad thing is that bluesky is an improvement over activity pub, mainly because it leaves no room for ambiguity and has basically no nonnormative text blocks in their spec.
(DIR) Post #AVaG1RIQWF01KJCEoS by jeff@federated.fun
2023-05-12T16:06:58.951434Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam it replaces webfinger
(DIR) Post #AVaGEHdtir8x9PMcnA by jeff@federated.fun
2023-05-12T16:09:14.204013Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@givemefoxes @sam like at proto actually IS a social media protocol, activitypub most certainly is not, they are building blocks to maybe sort of build one. it's just the bar was set so low and now people are making bikeshed comments on it to hate on the guy not the protocol, the rest of that thread reads like it's all "muh cryptocoin internet boogieman" from a bunch of software communists. it's so tiresome. it really is.
(DIR) Post #AVaGIpueFU6Mb1Mz3I by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
2023-05-12T16:10:09.565339Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff @hirad @anildash @doug @sam i love white people i want a white wife. a... whife
(DIR) Post #AVaGMRuNREyvJ2xvjE by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
2023-05-12T16:10:49.691287Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam what
(DIR) Post #AVaGSb5YDfIrW27jXc by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
2023-05-12T16:11:54.346106Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @CumskinFoidPuncher69420 this guy is the same kind of guy you just told me about
(DIR) Post #AVaGWy2Opwo1qjjXkm by jeff@federated.fun
2023-05-12T16:12:33.882774Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Polychrome @sam it's that tribalistic internet boogieman ooga booga be afriad of the counter revolutionaries throwing shade at someone for being "associated" with coin world dynamic, it's just so childish tbh.
(DIR) Post #AVaGbHiTc86u2YTPuK by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
2023-05-12T16:13:00.737398Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @doug lmao
(DIR) Post #AVaGcrzYEDzwptDR7w by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
2023-05-12T16:13:36.500914Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirad @anildash @sam @doug he's either stupid or racist. I'm not white, and i struggle see how the fediverse has a "white people problem"
(DIR) Post #AVaGjLCWXfdtAFMxWK by jeff@federated.fun
2023-05-12T16:14:53.472015Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@anildash @hirad @sam @doug i am okay with being a problem if being impartial to race is a problem
(DIR) Post #AVaHMbGElWqwGbpIES by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
2023-05-12T16:22:01.383139Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam @doug Sam Wight Power! you can join our ultra-far-right group btw.
(DIR) Post #AVaHPAEdhf39JhIlJg by CumskinFoidPuncher69420@beefyboys.win
2023-05-12T16:20:27.607091Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
Call him Sam Wight Power and tell him he's invited to our nazi alt-right maga ultra terrorist server and watch him recoil in horror falling over himself to disavow
(DIR) Post #AVaHTXb0n2y8vYqxJQ by APPTeOORuzvlGOetVY.verita84@poster.place
2023-05-12T16:23:20.243963Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sam Nostr solved this
(DIR) Post #AVaKoAaFqNR3V41kFE by PurpCat@boks.moe
2023-05-12T17:00:39.811197Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hirad @anildash @sam @doug you're learning about the fun creatures on the mastodon side. Be careful you might get defederated and wind up on the free side only
(DIR) Post #AVaLEMBxJ8x11z9Gq0 by PurpCat@boks.moe
2023-05-12T17:05:23.733490Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@CumskinFoidPuncher69420 @MischievousuTomatosu @sam real neo Nazis only at e621.net/post
(DIR) Post #AViv7UGoASOUzdErYG by rakoo@blah.rako.space
2023-05-11T08:53:52.106680Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ceralor @elijah @samNothing says activitypub actors must start with an @; in fact, actors must be urls, and the @ is part of the username but as an artifact. It would be perfectly valid for me to be known as https://blah.rako.space and nothing else.If you try that with Mastodon I'd love to hear the results of your experiment !