Post AVfLeC4AY4EowkcsDI by viktor@me.dm
(DIR) More posts by viktor@me.dm
(DIR) Post #AVOeHLdwszD4rfZcfY by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-06T21:52:41Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
So with @matrix and @element explicitly supporting cops and fascist governments what does that mean for their and our anarcho future?
(DIR) Post #AVOeHMByqSQqZDUniK by kittenlikeasmallcat@social.xenofem.me
2023-05-07T01:42:16.544876Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@liaizon @matrix @element I been on cwtch, love it.
(DIR) Post #AVSFoH82yHNkCJ5zIe by matrix@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-05-08T19:24:12Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
@liaizon @element whatever you do, don’t look at where the Internet or Tor came from… 🤫
(DIR) Post #AVSJeuqaqMweIqiyIK by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-08T20:07:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix @element thats a really unnecessarily terse reply Matrix (Matthew?) You chose by your own process to set up a booth at a police convention to attract police to use your services. You could have simply not made that decision. Yes there is other software that has gone down this path. does that mean I or other community members support that decision? no it does not.
(DIR) Post #AVSJw92DLepNEANKgS by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-08T20:11:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix @element also the internet came from millions of people pouring their hearts and souls into working on something they love. the internet did not come from getting funding from police. sure there are parts of the internet that have been funded by government agencies who I wish would cease to exist. have I spent time fighting that too? yes. yes I have.
(DIR) Post #AVSK4luwfPtu8Y5a88 by tusooa@kazv.moe
2023-05-08T20:14:38.345282Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix @liaizon @element we need better networking infrastructure than the Internet.
(DIR) Post #AVSLEjm1ao0WL0EShs by w@arachnid.town
2023-05-08T20:27:31.868531Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@matrix @liaizon @element I guess you can say this is a COP-out answer.
(DIR) Post #AVSLLSqMw6FxrETJs8 by w@arachnid.town
2023-05-08T20:28:45.739237Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@matrix @liaizon @element Honestly instead of being snarky and antagonistic to your users you should've just said nothing.
(DIR) Post #AVSLTs4D2ZteP1xEHI by w@arachnid.town
2023-05-08T20:30:17.436119Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix @element @liaizon I'm gonna guess your empty bank account is where this bootlicking shit is coming from. If this is Matthew, weren't you literally the the guy talking about having nightmares about funding?
(DIR) Post #AVSLnQztOWBeEuGPSK by w@arachnid.town
2023-05-08T20:33:47.246027Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@element @liaizon @matrix Instead of relying on governments and businesses who clearly aren't paying you guys enough, you could make an actually competitive product for normal people to use instead of being a complete dick to them. It's 2023 and I still have no way to reliably call people on Matrix, or screenshare at a framerate above 15.
(DIR) Post #AVSOrv5DmFkEZPaQOu by kateyagi@chitter.xyz
2023-05-08T21:05:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix @liaizon @element Sure glad I never got too invested in this honeypot. More time to tinker with IRC I guess.
(DIR) Post #AVSVBmOkNS1l9OZZKK by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-08T22:01:23Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Just adding this screenshot to the thread for anyone not following along.
(DIR) Post #AVSVBn39xCLzAjTqJk by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-08T22:06:40Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
posts in question: https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110310853505977058https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110304013472307767thanks to @scy for bringing this to my attention. Matrix/Element need to be held accountable. This is not what we are building free software to do. Tell the police to fuck off, don't develop secure software for the cops to use to exploit the people...
(DIR) Post #AVSgqyhAf0iges2P7Q by downey@floss.social
2023-05-06T22:00:26Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@liaizon Ask me after I find my replacement for Linux, Nextcloud, XMPP, Android, Postgres....
(DIR) Post #AVSh9qmGK5zBbTPzUW by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-07T00:14:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@downey what versions of Linux, nextcloud and xmpp are explicitly showing up to police conventions and trying to get them to use their software?
(DIR) Post #AVSh9rNq4O2lU1003s by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-05-09T00:32:57.488710Z
3 likes, 3 repeats
If you make choices in life based upon the criteria of whether or not "people I don't like use it too" you will have to give up everything
(DIR) Post #AVSsJSTQdbSycOOQN6 by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-09T02:08:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feld I have seen your stance on police before so thanks for the life advice but uh good luck with whatever mission your on I guess
(DIR) Post #AVSsJT7UEfVccd8PoG by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-05-09T02:37:56.427093Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
LOL what are you even talking about
(DIR) Post #AVT8XpGPcMnMshnP0q by catraxx@mastodon.online
2023-05-09T05:38:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix @liaizon @element Stop it. What are you doing, trying to commit suicide by community?! Seriously, get a grasp and take a look at what you are doing!
(DIR) Post #AVTA9cGgU2DhXCVTuK by cinebox@hackers.town
2023-05-08T22:47:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@liaizon what the hell is it with fedi and making corporate PR people go apeshit
(DIR) Post #AVTA9d6nMHu68ot68G by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-09T02:10:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cinebox can you explain your comment cause now I cant tell what is what since everyone jumping in my mentions defending the cops
(DIR) Post #AVTA9dmGs554DSIDmS by cinebox@hackers.town
2023-05-09T03:19:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@liaizon oh just, Matrix and Raspberry Pi doing the exact same thing and then doubling down on it replying to people.
(DIR) Post #AVTTntoriE4OzH5UkS by faoluin@chitter.xyz
2023-05-09T09:35:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix @liaizon @element Please read the room. People around here hate cops, and for good reason. Doubling down on this sort of thing is just going to alienate your users.
(DIR) Post #AVUXar3tFQs7e26vIG by element@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-05-09T21:55:35Z
3 likes, 5 repeats
@amatecha @matrix @liaizon https://element.io/blog/the-online-safety-bill-an-attack-on-encryption gives an idea of our position. And no, there are no backdoors. Yes, we fund Matrix dev by selling encrypted messaging to governments, which includes police: if you don’t like that then please feel free to use a different app.
(DIR) Post #AVUj3GbSyfUwSrZA6i by jalcine@todon.eu
2023-05-10T00:03:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element That's a horrible hill to die on, and I can't ever again in good faith recommend or support y'all. Thanks for spitting in the face of millions.@amatecha @matrix @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVUjw6NAiSHgf71krg by dexiheart@laserdisc.party
2023-05-10T00:13:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon Congratulations on the absolute worst incident management procedures since Raspberry Pi.
(DIR) Post #AVUlNDz8caVo2oHabY by recluse@dice.camp
2023-05-10T00:30:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@element @matrixOk, thanks for being so clear on your pro-fascism stance. I'll use a different app.
(DIR) Post #AVUvWMEkJHgBmhZpK4 by dexiheart@laserdisc.party
2023-05-10T00:17:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@prplecake you don't remember? it was over a year ago i think but their mastodon social person was popping off after they received criticism from the very community they strive to sell to after they hired a cop with experience in surveillance
(DIR) Post #AVUvddEfVWasX40dJg by paulo@boks.moe
2023-05-10T02:25:03.978610Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon :marseyglow2: :marseyglow: :marseyspyglow: :marseyfedpostglow: :marseynotesglow:
(DIR) Post #AVUw8fkmCDU5JnpRTs by colonelj@freespeechextremist.com
2023-05-10T02:30:42.641209Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon hello! does matrix sell all encrypted messaging across the entire protocol, or all encrypted messaging in the "matrix.org" sphere?
(DIR) Post #AVUwDLBi5NkOz1eX5M by ch0ccyra1n@emeraldsocial.org
2023-05-06T22:04:59Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@liaizonConsidering most anarchists in my location use Instagram and Discord, it would still be an improvement :blobcatnotlike:
(DIR) Post #AVUwIrOdlLIiKAKgim by downey@floss.social
2023-05-07T00:32:09Z
2 likes, 4 repeats
@liaizon Anyone who wants. It's free software, it's literally for everyone even those you don't like. That's its power.Setting aside whether or not such FOSS consumers should exist in the world, in reality the choices are:1) Our taxes go to MS for Teams, Salesforce for Slack, or similar2) Our taxes go to some freeloader selling FOSS that's not contributing in the community3) Our taxes go to someone selling FOSS that IS contributing in the communityReally not any other option AFAICT.
(DIR) Post #AVUwwoTa2W2gqmh6oa by rdr@rdrama.cc
2023-05-10T02:39:45.484387Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@downey @liaizon sorry free software can be used by Russia. If you want to stop Putin: Choose American proprietary software with always on DRM.
(DIR) Post #AVV09S7mkkYn9hDbjU by khm@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-05-10T03:12:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix @liaizon @element huge fucking stretch to compare yourselves to the professionals who designed those technologies. Also, way to conflate cops and the military. I thought it was just cops who liked to do that!
(DIR) Post #AVV0xnJkETZPMZojB2 by patthecat@techhub.social
2023-05-10T03:24:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element I understand the decision and support you guys. It takes real money and effort to build something so secure that even the government and police wants to use it, and some pople simply wont understand it. Congratulations to the whole team.
(DIR) Post #AVV7XJ7cZkUHraSo52 by scy@chaos.social
2023-05-10T04:38:18Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon You do realize that for many of us, the issue is not only "are there backdoors" or "will there ever be backdoors", but also "do you have the social maturity to recognize the pain and suffering the police causes everywhere around the world, especially towards minority groups". And right now, it looks like you don't, because else you wouldn't thoughtlessly use your police cooperation for marketing.
(DIR) Post #AVV8fyv39s8hlYHdrM by troglodyt@mastodon.nu
2023-05-10T04:51:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon taking money from uniformed gangsters isn't a good idea
(DIR) Post #AVV8tNu3a06v17D5BQ by Iguanadelmar@kolektiva.social
2023-05-10T04:53:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon so youre arms dealers, basically
(DIR) Post #AVVANWMamyuHtiUWga by kone@kolektiva.social
2023-05-10T05:10:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon lol goodbuy, rot in hell, enjoy sinking with them~ 😘
(DIR) Post #AVVBEmDuYJxAQzpDaS by parleur@mastodon.parleur.net
2023-05-10T05:17:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrixThis is a very stupid answer.@element
(DIR) Post #AVVBNhBCfrN1OjoMds by Natanox@chaos.social
2023-05-10T05:21:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon There was literally a whole god damn valley full of differently sized hills to die on, and you chose this one? You should consider more focus in your Twitter account with that attitude. The police-lovers are over there.
(DIR) Post #AVVCHevEFsPCc31bV2 by silberfuchs@social.edist.ro
2023-05-06T21:54:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@liaizon @matrix @element xmpp!
(DIR) Post #AVVCHfpEtdCzPlEKno by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-06T21:55:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@silberfuchs @matrix @element XMPP our one true hope
(DIR) Post #AVVCHgPkhsPpF0JUiO by shakil_tcs@mstdn.starnix.network
2023-05-10T05:31:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@liaizon @silberfuchs @matrix @element Always has been!!
(DIR) Post #AVVCdmiZwzVNA7esGO by realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
2023-05-10T05:35:35.818965Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon we fund Matrix dev by selling encrypted messaging to governmentsWhat does this mean, exactly? I assumed #E2EE #Matrix messages are safe?
(DIR) Post #AVVCpu5EOMr7Tr24Ku by cereal@shitposter.club
2023-05-10T05:37:47.145488Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix @liaizon @element > they're shit, so we're shit too and that makes it okayNah, still just makes you shit.
(DIR) Post #AVVEbLKkzdnrYpTm1w by SirHaxe@tech.lgbt
2023-05-10T05:55:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
How's it going buddy? ...Yeah
(DIR) Post #AVVEeV9svDZAtrtrIO by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-05-10T05:58:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon TL;DR: Use a different app.#matrix #element #acab
(DIR) Post #AVVFnZg9aHLXTqsqIa by fishidwardrobe@mastodon.me.uk
2023-05-10T06:08:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix @liaizon @element Right. Some things have problematic origins, therefore it's okay to do questionable stuff. That's a perfectly logical argument.
(DIR) Post #AVVFpxgzH1x6XIPb96 by SkellySoft@mastodon.gamedev.place
2023-05-10T06:10:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon "secure communication for everyone" =/= "we sell encrypted messages to governments"
(DIR) Post #AVVGt3woZajWl8rE9Y by katzenberger@social.tchncs.de
2023-05-10T06:23:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element It's one thing to see your software used by them because it's #FLOSS and you can't stop them. Any such project is facing the same issue.It's another thing to actively market it to them and enjoy cameos during their events. It's a pity you can't see why this does not foster trust, to put it mildly.@amatecha @matrix @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVVHtKhkN3oqgUVDCy by iamhabenula@mastodon.social
2023-05-10T06:34:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
مگه پیاما رمزنگاری نمیشه؟ دقیقا چیو به دولت فروختند؟@danialbehzadi
(DIR) Post #AVVIIHFYLvT1D2D2XY by tschenkel@mathstodon.xyz
2023-05-10T06:38:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon I do take this as meaning you sell encrypted messaging services/platform to these government institutions.On first, quick reading (as typical for social media), one may read that as "selling encrypted messages", i.e., access to other people's messages to said government institutions.Two very different things.
(DIR) Post #AVVJE6VSSFKkgWDrYO by mbpaz@mas.to
2023-05-10T06:49:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon I understand you mean you sell encrypted messaging software / solutions / platform / consultancy to governments (or whoever), but many seem to have understood you sell encrypted *messages* to them.Either they are a bit overparanoid, or I am far too naive.Or both.
(DIR) Post #AVVJoEpQzSHWv8nRgG by f4grx@chaos.social
2023-05-10T06:55:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon ok I dont like that.
(DIR) Post #AVVJsu3xckcVxsocwi by hughster@mastodon.social
2023-05-10T06:56:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @matrix Sorry about all the hassle from the usual loud minority you're getting. Thank you for your work.
(DIR) Post #AVVPTZRVkfDsUw8Q88 by sreedevkkumar@journa.host
2023-05-10T07:59:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon I think a lot of folks in this thread have misinterpreted your post as saying that you sell encrypted messages of your users to governments, although what you actually said was that you sell your messaging service to governments for funding Matrix. You should have worded that better.
(DIR) Post #AVVSafM8SqTYj9hAsi by critical@blob.cat
2023-05-10T08:34:18.089507Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@colonelj @element @matrix @amatecha @liaizon I think they meant "messaging" as a service (to exchange messages), not the actual messages.So I don't think they're sending your encrypted messages to the police.
(DIR) Post #AVVVGnhu0Ny0hN5zo8 by franko@kolektiva.social
2023-05-10T09:01:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix @liaizon @element the Internet came from a demilitarised Arpanet. I can live with demilitarisation. I advocate demilitarisation. You're doing the inverse of the examples you give. Or are you telling us that you were pigs all along?
(DIR) Post #AVVVHfpCnRtWXevagi by PurpCat@boks.moe
2023-05-10T09:04:29.654398Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@recluse @element @matrix you should use the most secure app ever: WeChat (xi number 1)
(DIR) Post #AVVX39XWEf3eGUrJWy by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-05-10T09:24:16.775164Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@liaizon @downey I bet you cops use avaya 🤣
(DIR) Post #AVVYaqBKoVb61n6s9w by meticore@sneed.social
2023-05-10T09:41:31.807344Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@colonelj @element @matrix @amatecha @liaizon they don't sell data nigger they sell services and help govs set up their own matrix servers
(DIR) Post #AVVYkI5ERguHAYlH0K by controlistes@ludosphere.fr
2023-05-10T09:43:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon Ce désastre de communication absolu, CSC
(DIR) Post #AVVa3VC41h53HngKBc by colonelj@freespeechextremist.com
2023-05-10T09:57:58.610153Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@meticore @amatecha @element @liaizon @matrix their wording isn't the best if true. why would countries by a foss protocol?
(DIR) Post #AVVaOqGkrXw6jT3Fg0 by meticore@sneed.social
2023-05-10T10:01:47.503115Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@colonelj @element @matrix @amatecha @liaizon cuz governments are not very competent. The Element team sells hosting to private people, businesses and gov thats how they fund the protocolhttps://element.io/pricing
(DIR) Post #AVVaiSUywzqInj3mfw by charliebrownau@poa.st
2023-05-10T10:05:22.542070Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@meticore @colonelj @element @matrix @amatecha @liaizon 170 governments are Jewish CorporationsThey are not sovereign, legal or moralThen again ((( MATRIX ))) is Jewish creation by ex mossad peopleThe truth is International COMMON LAW Exists and overwrites local corporate ((( STATE GOVERNMENT))) LAW
(DIR) Post #AVVb1vIe5q9XczZTWK by meticore@sneed.social
2023-05-10T10:08:51.825785Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@charliebrownau @colonelj @element @matrix @amatecha @liaizon >Then again ((( MATRIX ))) is Jewish creation by ex mossad peopleIf its FOSS, can be selfhosted it doesnt matter who made it, you use shit every made by kikes every day by being on the internet
(DIR) Post #AVVb4vzdyH46eD7RMe by colonelj@freespeechextremist.com
2023-05-10T10:09:26.462083Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@charliebrownau @meticore @element @matrix @amatecha @liaizon retard
(DIR) Post #AVVbIgRmZHoiUCpwVk by meticore@sneed.social
2023-05-10T10:11:53.588647Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@charliebrownau @amatecha @colonelj @element @liaizon @matrix alsso before the XMPP schizo shills come in I'd just like to point this outhttps://xmpp.org/about/faq>Who uses XMPP?>Google use it for their Google Cloud Messaging. Facebook use it for Facebook Chat integration. NATO use it for tactical chat. Thousands of companies use it for their enterprise instant messaging. Millions of devices use it to interconnect. The IETF use it in their meetings. One of our Board members uses it to talk to his mother.
(DIR) Post #AVVfWdRIwmYL1qWO5A by lain@lain.com
2023-05-10T10:55:15.237988Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@liaizon one can still use the tools, and I don't think that it materially changes much if the police uses matrix or SAP BusinessChat or whatever they used before.
(DIR) Post #AVVhR7rB8w79XN7mIC by letterus@kirche.social
2023-05-10T08:18:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@realcaseyrollins @element @matrix @amatecha @liaizon Yes. That‘s why they sell it (the software!) to governments.
(DIR) Post #AVVhoQjh7Himkbjhk8 by McCovican@infosec.exchange
2023-05-10T11:24:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element When your entire brand is centred around requiring the near-absolute trust of your users, providing that same service to organizations that a large part of your user-base very clearly don't trust (and will be, for many, the entire reason they use your service in the first place) is, if nothing else, going to be an obviously contentious move."If you don't like that then please feel free to use a different app" is, however, the short-sighted nail in the coffin which highlights that your organization has a poor decision-making process. A negative response from your users to a move like this wasn't exactly hard to foresee, and could have, at the very least, been managed with a little more tact and understanding. Coming out swinging for your own users in response to concerns is just such a massive self-own, and really shows a lack of organizational maturity.
(DIR) Post #AVVi68yBuRjIrWxmmO by r3g_5z@grapheneos.social
2023-05-10T11:28:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon this post was definitely made by a cishet white man who has never been a victim of systematic dehumanisation by police and government
(DIR) Post #AVViKI4uqDCtALr2WG by ex_06@puntarella.party
2023-05-10T07:24:34Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@element @mbpaz @matrix @liaizon @amatecha both, because they don’t get that:- police in europe can’t shoot you like in US- a chat protocol can’t fix a world that needs social revolutions- to strive it’s better to take funds from whoever funds you whiteout wanting back changes in your project- yes, it’s called compromise and we do that to make real, relevant good changesAnd what you missed is the complete hate for police by anarchists used to get hit by batons at protests.Meanwhile, from the same people I see them talking at European conferences or testing out bluesky to compare protocols. It’s just that where they draw the line, they draw it in a completely angry way
(DIR) Post #AVVirMIcAWEroU1vU0 by kkarhan@mstdn.social
2023-05-10T11:36:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon You literally betray your users by selling their data, fucking snitches!If that alone doesn't disqualify yourself they you should not be trusted with anything more complex than an analog landline phone...I hope that affected users will find out and team up with @maxschrems of @noybeu and choose #ForeseeableConsequences via the legal system.
(DIR) Post #AVVjVzBH1k71zAy8GW by brawaru@mstdn.social
2023-05-10T11:43:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I wonder how this pays off when a cop pig beats the crap out of you, cracks your bones and maybe rapes at police station, or maybe straight kills for peacefully protesting some bullshit gov does, fellow @element / @matrix employee.You can tell me this sounds exaggerated, but this is happening right now, this happens regularly, and you've chosen to support that :clapping:@amatecha @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVVkQT1nF9M8ltT0gi by genebean@fosstodon.org
2023-05-10T11:54:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
To be clear, I have no problem with what @element and @matrix are doing. My issue is with legislation that weakens encryption. @amatecha @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVVlDhhpSYQSU4bfvs by sebsch@social.tchncs.de
2023-05-10T12:02:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@elementFor me this means using another chat protocol. Why should I trust a management with such mindset?@amatecha @matrix @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVVlG1Pj9lVaBdFFi4 by clacke@libranet.de
2023-05-10T11:28:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lain @liaizon It potentially affects the future if people who dominate the spec and dev kiss up to them.
(DIR) Post #AVVlG2AsKTDqXrIuCO by lain@lain.com
2023-05-10T12:02:48.208423Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@clacke @liaizon sure, but spec excellence isn't an area where matrix was shining anyway. IDK, i think many people are kind of unclear about what they actually want. They want governments to pay for FOSS, but then they want governments to not use it. Then if companies support it, everyone's afraid that they might get too much influence. So what's the right way to write ethical software then? Sit in your apartment with the blinds down reading kropotkin, hoping for the rest of the world to recognize the moral superiority of your code? (not saying that liaizon thinks this way).
(DIR) Post #AVVlqVMPIGtRUN5XZw by RustyCrab@sleepy.cafe
2023-05-10T12:10:02.680381Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@liaizon @matrix @element this is the most "I am 14 years old" post I have ever seen
(DIR) Post #AVVm36wDPIapVaqfK4 by lina@eientei.org
2023-05-10T12:12:08.910679Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@RustyCrab @element @matrix @liaizon you know i wouldn't really worry whether mossad backed organizations support cops or not if i were an anarchist because i'd be too busy smashing liquor store windows to steal booze
(DIR) Post #AVVm8SvJ5r8R8uyd04 by lina@eientei.org
2023-05-10T12:13:14.376315Z
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@RustyCrab @element @liaizon @matrix thats literally all anarchy is at the end of the day: stealing booze and getting drunk and getting into gang fights with rusty pieces of rebar and knives
(DIR) Post #AVVmG5BFFkL1p241NA by RustyCrab@sleepy.cafe
2023-05-10T12:14:40.404803Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@lina @element @matrix @liaizon yes yes I agree with your statement
(DIR) Post #AVVmOOBOUDSf4d5ubY by lina@eientei.org
2023-05-10T12:16:00.275200Z
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@RustyCrab @element @matrix @liaizon cool we can raid liquor stores now
(DIR) Post #AVVq0nesW6uIx2tPfc by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-10T12:55:53Z
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@RustyCrab 14 year olds are cool. I wish I was still 14
(DIR) Post #AVVq19snt17NsbZqQi by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-10T12:53:54Z
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@lain @clacke I wasnt even arguing that I dont want police to use matrix. I am actually in favor of them using floss software. I am not in favor of linking a financial incentive between the police and the people making decisions about the software I am putting my trust in. I understand "government national security budgets" get involved in lots of free software stuff and much of that is dirty money thats been laundered through a vagueposting machine and its quite harder to steer clear of it.
(DIR) Post #AVVxCEkQq1t5pgtJ1k by konomikitten@mastodon.online
2023-05-10T14:17:09Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon what I am reading right here better be a joke.@element are you seriously selling our messages?
(DIR) Post #AVW0DzmjjxbrrsV1IO by Genstar@meow.social
2023-05-10T14:51:04Z
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Company in charge of the Element matrix client sells software to police.https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110340953550548309
(DIR) Post #AVW5flqje4B6WjQv0S by glitch@pl.glitch.pm
2023-05-10T14:32:16.776395Z
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@mawhrin @matrix @liaizon @element For what it counts, the project has been funded since pretty much it's inception by governments so I'm not sure if this is all that suprising. Funding started with the Israeli DoD, then moved over to the German and French government due to fear of Facebook et al. surveilling messaging applications from what I can tell.Not defending their choice to show up to what seems to be an European police conference, but this really oughtn't be suprising.
(DIR) Post #AVW5fmaosj2cpeziq0 by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-10T14:38:07Z
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@glitch I guess what I find most surprising about this is that they publicly stated it like they were proud of being a speaker at cop con. like are they really that unaware of their user base here that they didnt think this would spark a controversy?
(DIR) Post #AVW5fnDSZ3wwlV4a48 by glitch@pl.glitch.pm
2023-05-10T14:40:21.457705Z
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@liaizon To put it simply; their userbase here isn't paying their bills. The funding isn't coming from me or you, it's coming from those government contracts.
(DIR) Post #AVWHZin9IfwQkudb1c by clemenceau@cutewaifu.enjoyer.network
2023-05-10T07:41:21.205387Z
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@element I really don’t understand what people are sperging out in the replies to this post for. Matrix and the governments they partner with have been communicating their collabs in press releases and blog posts for years now — it’s not some sudden big revelation.Here’s a post from Feb 2020. I’m sure I’ve read ones before this: https://element.io/blog/element-brings-matrix-to-europe/
(DIR) Post #AVWHZjSGpmpooRsR7Y by hirad@mastodon.hirad.it
2023-05-10T15:11:46Z
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@clemenceau @element I think the reason is the dominant attitude in #Mastodon. Being judgmental and so quick to jump into conclusion.
(DIR) Post #AVWHZkO3Mx3VheuaBc by clemenceau@cutewaifu.enjoyer.network
2023-05-10T17:25:19.345615Z
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@hirad tbh I’ve seen it in most social media, not just Masto. Uninformed people believing everything is sunshine and rainbows, and suddenly outraged when they find out that things aren’t as simple as good and evil, and there’s nuance involved. Social media amplifies it by making bandwagoning/dogpiling easier.
(DIR) Post #AVWHZl2SwhNjizorB2 by hirad@mastodon.hirad.it
2023-05-10T17:32:10Z
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@clemenceau You're right. But Mastodon is different because its not as diverse as other social media. Its mostly 2 types of people here, nerds and "woke" people (I over simplified it). Both highly idealist and can be very emotional about this kind of topics. And because there aren't that many people here, these posts and rants become more visible.
(DIR) Post #AVWHZljMNDh1s1t72G by clemenceau@cutewaifu.enjoyer.network
2023-05-10T18:04:04.770900Z
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@hirad that makes sense, actually. You should leave Masto and come to Akkoma, we’re full of deplorables here :ab1nzyblob2:
(DIR) Post #AVWX01roV4Lal3p1Rw by zkat@toot.cat
2023-05-10T20:58:21Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon man you’re really not supposed to be saying this with your whole chest like this, even if it’s a business decision you made for survival.
(DIR) Post #AVWmDKhNIJlEExk0Qq by pnictogen_wing@mastodon.social
2023-05-10T23:48:49Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon the sweet sweet taste of fascist dollars is really just TOO tempting for the average computer nerd to pass up, it would seem
(DIR) Post #AVXSPDdBaqtns28FKC by ombremad@eldritch.cafe
2023-05-11T07:41:34Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon will do, thanks for the advice.
(DIR) Post #AVYfApwSMj7MuLZtaq by crankylinuxuser@infosec.exchange
2023-05-11T21:39:22Z
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@element@amatecha @matrix @liaizon @crankylinuxuser Do not, under ANY circumstances, engage in "Matrix".This is terrible and sad both. 'No backdoors' my ass. These folks ran Skype and Kazaa, which were riddled with malware and backdoors.No, no, no. Just no.
(DIR) Post #AVYmewbSrWvZw03wLQ by big_louse@todon.eu
2023-05-11T23:03:12Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon This is good Let the cops use unstable resource hungry crapware.
(DIR) Post #AVYn3nDetAWK4PmBgO by big_louse@todon.eu
2023-05-11T23:05:20Z
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@matrix @liaizon @element at least Tor works lmao
(DIR) Post #AVYq8pwAVjcboHgyQ4 by i_lost_my_bagel@mastodon.lilysthings.org
2023-05-11T23:42:16Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon Fine by me. Governments are going to want secure messaging no matter what so might as well try and get some money out of it to improve the platform.
(DIR) Post #AVZ0MxMmgWCGRnVrhA by clacke@libranet.de
2023-05-12T01:22:07Z
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@lain Cops are an arm of the government, many would say in some form a necessary one, but it's not a point of inconsistency to say that we want open source software to get funding from the science, education, infrastructure, information and healthcare arms of government, and accept the police and military as customers like anybody else in society, while not framing the violent and frequently (unavoidably?) problematic arms of government as favored customers where you directly collaborate with them or promote yourself at their specific conferences.If militaries use Matrix internally, fine, can't stop 'em, it's open source, also no ethical sales under capitalism. If leading Matrix representatives promote Matrix at the arms fair in Abu Dhabi, not only super bad optics but genuine cause for concern about leadership priorities.
(DIR) Post #AVZ0MyA3jJc0ucZDV2 by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-12T01:34:15Z
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@clacke its pretty interesting to see you draw the line at Abu Dhabi. I guess we all have our lines built up from notions of the news and things we have seen and learned along the road of life. If your comment had been by a stranger I would have dismissed it cause I got a barrage of pro cop responses from this encounter. But we have interacted in good faith for many years and I know you to be a thoughtful person.
(DIR) Post #AVZ21MoHbbeqteCyWG by morgan@leds.social
2023-05-12T01:55:22Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon do you keep metrics on how frequently cops use this to avoid oversight or public scrutiny? seems like the thing you could add to your sales material
(DIR) Post #AVZ4NWcE1sUjaSGIqW by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-12T02:21:45Z
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@liaizon> matrix and element explicitly supporting cops and fascist governmentsHuh?
(DIR) Post #AVZ4WY4ZyqK6iGpL9M by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-12T02:22:40Z
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@strypey @liaizon load the thread
(DIR) Post #AVZ5SJQ0cgEU3jOWDg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-12T02:33:52Z
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@liaizonI did, still confused.
(DIR) Post #AVZ5xtQOnnxChwdTfM by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-12T02:39:34Z
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@strypey https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110304013472307767
(DIR) Post #AVaE0bO9JKbWQgLW9Q by NuSkooler@toot.community
2023-05-12T15:44:19Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon Sigh, guess Matrix is out now.
(DIR) Post #AVapRpANtBxjHekeFE by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-12T22:43:54Z
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@nick> I do think there is a meaningful distinctionFair point, but I think the influence that comes with having police departments among Element's customers is being heavily exaggerated. They've had government departments and militaries as customers for some time. Why are police any different in that respect? Also, militaries and cops won't benefit from their own comms being backdoored. So why does anyone think having them as customers would make Element put them in?(1/2)@downey @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVapxzN5U0vKCU1wsi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-12T22:49:45Z
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@nickLet's say for some bizarre reason the cops were willing to break their own comms security to get at the messages of other matrix users. Let's say Element were stupid enough to risk losing all their other customers, and compromised their code. The Matrix Foundation has no reason to accept protocol changes that compromise matrix users. So everyone could just switch to different implementations, or fork Element and Synapse under community control, and remove dodgy code.@downey @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVdqlG4Im96beIcIts by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-14T09:42:31Z
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@nick> It's the structural arrangement of power relations that bothers meThis is the the point though, the only thing the Element company has power over is their hosting servers, and the dev channels run under the trademark Element. Everything else is up to the matrix community. Element have no power to stop people auditing their published code, looking for dodgy changes. No power to stop people from removing what they like and releasing a fork under a new name.(1/2)@downey @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVdrjVZIHCAT60qIFs by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-14T09:52:34Z
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@nick Unlike Signal, you can use your own server to check that Element's servers are implementing the protocol correctly. Element have no power over the protocol either, because it's developed separately from their product. If they tried to push something dodgy into the protocol, they'd have to do it publicly at the Matrix Foundation. Worst case, other implementers could fork the protocol too.Free license + open protocol creates...> a greater separation of influence(2/2)@downey @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVdsScgQfYnuC6gzCK by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-14T10:01:44Z
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@nick> leaning more and more away from "open source" as the model to organize around, as it's not embedded in a wider concept of non-domination based economy and societyCorrect. Open Source is a mainstreaming entry point for Free Software (ie software freedom). Which is embedded in exactly that; the proposal that users ought to control computing, rather than vendors using the devices and services they provide to control users:https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html@downey @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVeq94cx3k7oJpZmMq by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-14T21:10:34Z
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@nick> Would trust a 100% accountable community funded model moreI agree with this. But coming back to the original topic, I don't see Element's customers as the problem here, but rather the VCs whose money they've been using to fund development. When they get enough customers to cover their costs with a bit of surplus, they can perform an Exit to Community and become a platform co-op, owned either by their workers or their customers (or both like meet.coop).@downey @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVercaZbSoq1kXeDtg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-14T21:27:06Z
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@nick> The "soft" power (and/or economic power) is quite big too though I suspect. It seems an expensive project to keep alive, so keeping that funding source alive becomes vitalSure, but as I explained in the posts you originally replied to, keeping the funding from their customers requires them to do exactly what we want them to do. Develop software that reliably protects the privacy of their customers' communications. It's exactly the right incentive structure.(1/2)@downey @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVeriERYeeMmqwZjwu by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-14T21:28:09Z
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@nick> Would trust a 100% accountable community funded model moreI agree with this. But I don't see Element's customers as the problem here, but rather the VCs whose money they've been using to fund development. When they get enough customers to cover their costs with a bit of surplus, they can perform an Exit to Community and become a platform co-op, owned either by their workers or their customers (or both like meet.coop).@downey @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVesiyJaCpMD4glIaO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-14T21:39:28Z
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@nick> "free software" ... isn't embedded in a wider social/economic model of non-dominationIt definitely is. Here's a good explanation of how:https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html> I suspect the concept of software freedom in free software is not something most users are that interested inTrue. Most people don't understand how proprietary computing allows most of their human rights and civil liberties to be violated. Which is why Open Source is helpful as an on-ramp'@downey @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVexerhlL6MzBcvtmC by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-14T22:34:42Z
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@strypey @nick @downey please untag me in further discussions of this
(DIR) Post #AVfEPQGskjsCyoa95c by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-15T01:42:27Z
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@liaizonSorry, willdo.@nick @downey
(DIR) Post #AVfLe9d9bXRLONyGpM by jalcine@todon.eu
2023-05-10T00:05:12Z
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@elementLike this makes you no better than the corporations that promote abusive forms of communication y'all are allegedly against (or I guess not?) @amatecha @matrix @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVfLeAYEBL5sFOfqmu by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-05-10T14:03:21Z
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@jalcine Wait, they’re against corporations? This VC-funded corporation is against corporations? And there I thought they were just another enterprise software company.https://matrix.org/blog/2021/07/27/element-raises-30-m-to-boost-matrix@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon
(DIR) Post #AVfLeBV4eYAJBuCqVk by jebba@jebba.moe
2023-05-10T14:44:07Z
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@aral @jalcine @element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon Matrix was funded by Protocol Labs (IPFS, Filecoin crypto) and by the guy that started Skype and Kazaa.It is well known from Snowden docs (and earlier!) that Skype had a government backdoor.Kazaa was also loaded with spyware.Matrix is institutionally compromised.
(DIR) Post #AVfLeC4AY4EowkcsDI by viktor@me.dm
2023-05-12T03:50:42Z
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@jebba @aral @jalcine @element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon Matrix was created & initially funded at Amdocs. When funding got cut, creators started a company which became Element. You may disagree w/ what Element does as a company, but Matrix (protocol) is #FOSS. U can review homesevers' code, u can review spec, u can even review Element apps' code, & u can use other 3rd party clients w/o touching Element. Ur friends & enemies use FOSS. That's what it means to be free & open. Anyone can use it.
(DIR) Post #AVfLeChAD5Qitgs0zg by jebba@jebba.moe
2023-05-12T03:55:02Z
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@viktor Yes, I understand all that. I also understand who funds and partners with a company affects their priorities.I can look at their code, but they are institutionally compromised which will affect their decisions.Also, earlier someone mentioned the investor--he was founder of dodgy apps too, not just money.Want to know a group, see who they work with.
(DIR) Post #AVfLeDFY9Ew4cKxTai by viktor@me.dm
2023-05-12T04:24:20Z
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@jebba You're conflating Element and Matrix. Matrix is managed by Matrix Foundation, which has "guardians" that are not part of Element. If Matrix is institutionally compromised then every single #FOSS is compromised, too, because they do what other FOSS do. No more, no less. https://matrix.org/foundation/
(DIR) Post #AVfLeDna6i9qJssedU by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-05-12T05:52:26Z
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@viktor @jebba As a tiny org that makes #FOSS and doesn’t and wouldn’t peddle our wares at police conferences or work with them (as we’ve made sacrifices to enable us to keep working on building things for *people* not *enterprises/governments*), I reject that statement. We’re living proof that it’s not true. And I like to think we’re not the only ones. FOSS !== enterprise software !== a total lack of ethical standards in who you are funded by (and thank fuck for that).#acab
(DIR) Post #AVfLeENjwH5681nWzo by viktor@me.dm
2023-05-13T20:39:09Z
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@aral @jebba #FOSS is for everyone, including enterprises & govs. That's the nature of open & free. Like it or not. What Element does is their business & I can't comment on their biz strategy. What's important here is to not conflate Element & Matrix. Matrix is a protocol managed by Matrix Foundation. If you don't like Element providing some funding to the foundation, you probably should stop using every FOSS out there as most received funding from questionable orgs, govs & individuals 🤷
(DIR) Post #AVfLeF01dvhq2li6fg by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-05-14T07:49:18Z
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@viktor @jebba OK, Viktor, clearly this is the hill you’ve chosen. We disagree profoundly and there isn’t time in the world to argue with everyone who defends a broken status quo. #FOSS licenses may lack ethical safeguards but that doesn’t mean that the organisations we build and the tools we design must do so too. We can layer ethical principles on top (e.g., https://small-tech.org/about/#small-technology) instead of proudly embracing its rampant exploitation by corporations/governments as a feature.
(DIR) Post #AVfLeFZ7XRmLnc88NE by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2023-05-15T03:03:32.702362Z
2 likes, 3 repeats
FOSS is about freedom, and freedom is about letting people you don't like do things you don't like as well as letting people you like do things you do like.Personally, I've seen projects claiming to be FOSS that try to dictate who can use their software and how, and I don't think they're really Free Software at all. It's highly restrictive software with a shared source license.
(DIR) Post #AVgAYA6q0U3wnmkuB6 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-15T12:33:54Z
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@nick> What is missing for me is widespread social/economic networks actually operating with a non-domination based approachesYou mean like platform cooperatives?https://directory.platform.coop/
(DIR) Post #AVgDTp3OeGaUCglh0i by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-15T13:06:45Z
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@nick> I also don't see that platforms coops are especially plugged into free software movement eitherI have a pet theory that I helped kick off the platform co-op movement by convincing the original Loomio team to incorporate as a co-op (their code was licensed "MIT', then AGPL, again my proposal). Then getting Douglas Rushkoff, Michel Bauwens, and others invited to the OS;OS conference, where I presume they learned about Loomio and started pushing the web-service-as-a-co-op model 😄(1/2)
(DIR) Post #AVgEFW9gDTbxUTRxq4 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-15T13:15:21Z
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@nickIf I'm even partially correct about that, then the platforms co-op model is a product of the free software movement.The overlap is not total, yet. There are projects like ShareTribe using proprietary Shared Source licenses, co-ops using the Peer Production License, and so on. But I'm pretty sure that like the people behind Microsoft's Shared Source project, and the first generation of vanity licenses that led to the OSI's license approval process, they will realize their error ; )(2/2)
(DIR) Post #AVgF7hUkGtJwIW8iWG by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-05-15T05:59:35Z
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@sj_zero @jebba @viktor For fuck’s sake, I wake up every day and write free software and I’ve been doing so for over a decade at great personal expense. Don’t fucking explain to me what FOSS is and isn’t. FOSS licenses may not be ethical but that doesn’t mean you don’t have to be. It doesn’t mean you can’t layer ethical restrictions on top of what you’re building with how you design things. And it sure has hell doesn’t mean you’re compelled to legitimise folks who peddle their wares to the cops.
(DIR) Post #AVgF7iBHijLeQS2gpE by kkarhan@mstdn.social
2023-05-15T06:12:00Z
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@aral @sj_zero @jebba @viktor +9001%Also nothing prevents people from explicitly banning shitty people and orgy from forums.It's basic housekeeping...
(DIR) Post #AVgF7jFDla5hiwtLbE by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2023-05-15T13:25:08.143512Z
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There isn't anything that says that a project needs to blindly take every donation and code commit or it's no longer libre, for sure. At the end of the day, FOSS projects require leadership and that leadership does have decisions to make. Especially when the project is providing services besides just writing FOSS software.That being said, my original point still stands with respect to claiming to be libre but then stacking conditions on top of the use of the software or source code. It might not seem such a problem when you agree with the limitations, but if the shoe was on the other foot and a piece of software required you to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and Savior or agree with the terms of the MAGA movement then the problems with such practices becomes rather clear.
(DIR) Post #AVgFnj8sXMGjZLx3Eu by kkarhan@mstdn.social
2023-05-15T13:32:20Z
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@sj_zero @jebba @aral @viktor Well, AFAICS said FLOSS with absurd licensing terms quickly dies out...Also if projects have the time and energy to make troll terms then they're already full of Kekistanis or otherwise already useless...
(DIR) Post #AVgG2w7kYMgEAvfxtw by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2023-05-15T13:35:33.404873Z
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That's a good point, and it speaks to a reality I've started to understand -- FLOSS projects don't exist in a vacuum. They need to attract users and developers and the like, and so only projects that can survive long-term will survive long-term.I saw some questions lately about why projects tend to have a dictatorial structure, and the only answer I could come up with is that virtually no projects could start and get up to scale without a benevolent dictator in charge. If another method can work, then it would work, and we'd have those methods in use.
(DIR) Post #AVgGCnoQJKrPIDLAkC by ombres@438punk.house
2023-05-07T00:13:35Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ch0ccyra1n @liaizon imo, the code is the code. Nothing has actually changed. The funding always came from EU academia; the goal has always been infosovereignty for the French and German states, who remember that their highest officials were being spied on by the U.S.No one should use matrix.org (which is laggy anyway) and people should probably rarely if ever federate with other instances because there is too much metadata exposureThe code is likely to be maintained for a long time. Which, y'know, is goodSo yeah. This is a teachable moment, lol
(DIR) Post #AVgL9twDZwKXC3QFJA by Natanox@chaos.social
2023-05-10T05:07:00Z
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@scy @element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon Well said. The way they argue right now sounds really... let's call it "white male westerner". It's disgusting, specifically these days.Their priorities in feature development make more sense though given these connections.
(DIR) Post #AVgL9ubh5jVVGgpMxM by scy@chaos.social
2023-05-10T05:11:05Z
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@Natanox I mean, I’m a cis white male nerd, and even _I_ don’t need the n-th messaging app targeted at cis white male nerds, developed by a company led by cis white male nerds, who’s totally out of touch with the community because of their government deals.
(DIR) Post #AVgL9vHsYtFdNWZ3i4 by ki@chaos.social
2023-05-10T05:28:29Z
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@scy @Natanox Earnest question, when you say "the n-th messaging app", can you tell me any alternatives when it comes to self-hosted multi-platform messaging with easy-to-use encryption?XMPP comes to mind, but the OTR-stuff is far from easy-to-use.
(DIR) Post #AVgL9vvaBH0hMf8lay by scy@chaos.social
2023-05-10T05:35:10Z
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@ki @Natanox No, I said "the n-th messaging app targeted at cis white male nerds", not "the n-th messaging app with the Matrix feature set" ;)I have to admit, XMPP is beginning to look like the neglected, actually community-based ecosystem that might be worth trying out again.If self-hosted is not a requirement, Signal would definitely be my recommendation. Except for their crypto wallet bullshit. 🙄Capitalism sucks.
(DIR) Post #AVgL9wX9vZ4HFCimAK by Natanox@chaos.social
2023-05-10T05:38:47Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@scy @ki but but but but Capitalism made your Android phone!!!11!1
(DIR) Post #AVgOgaQ7SwAu4xgZEm by viktor@me.dm
2023-05-15T13:48:19Z
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@sj_zero @jebba @aral @kkarhan Those are good points. I personally have seen a project stalled due to "death by committee". Speaking of Jesus Christ, a good example of this in open source is SQLite. Aral, I'm curious, what do you think of such a code of ethics? This is what you're advocating for.https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.htmlLastly, I stick to @conservancy's Copyleft project definition of #FOSS:https://copyleft.org/guide/comprehensive-gpl-guidech2.html#x5-40001
(DIR) Post #AVgOgb9qiukqMn55W4 by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2023-05-15T15:12:21.911220Z
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It's interesting the preamble where it was previously called a code of conduct and it was renamed to a code of ethics hints at the sort of backlash I'd expect since the term code of conduct implies teeth that can bite you for not following it. I certainly would have a problem calling software enforcing behavior like that libre.It sort of reminds me of one of those things that discusses the difference between being a boss and being a leader. A boss points and yells and says this is how you're going to do it or else. A leader tries to exemplify good behavior and present a vision for the future and model it so other people want to follow his lead rather than being forced to follow their lead.The 4 freedoms and particularly the 0th freedom was what I had in mind for sure.
(DIR) Post #AVgvTRayGKppQp6OyO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-15T21:19:42Z
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@nick> Coopyleft" license not an open source or free software oneYes, this is an example of what I was referring to as proprietary Shared Source licenses. Like corporate platforms, the CoopCycle software is mostly composed of free code written by other people. In both cases, without this commons to draw from without permission, developing their platforms would be much slower and more expensive. For projects like CoopCycle and ShareTribe, it would probably be unaffordable.(1/2)
(DIR) Post #AVgvWrzQaKMgA4AvWi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-15T21:20:17Z
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@nick@nick> Coopyleft" license not an open source or free software oneYes, this is an example of what I was referring to as proprietary Shared Source licenses. Like corporate platforms, the CoopCycle software is mostly composed of free code written by other people. In both cases, without this commons to draw from without permission, developing their platforms would be much slower and more expensive. For projects like CoopCycle and ShareTribe, it would probably be unaffordable.(1/2)
(DIR) Post #AVgwj0TSxvFtu9ZoQq by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-15T21:33:44Z
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@nickYet the people adopting proprietary Shared Source licenses never seem to consider what would happen to their projects if all the upstream free code they used also switched to similar licenses. Eg the SSPL used by MongoDB:https://www.mongodb.com/licensing/server-side-public-license/faqThis would force them to either start negotiating licenses and royalties with copyright owners, switch to suitable modules still under a Free Code license - if any are available - or rewrite them from scratch. In all 3 cases, a huge blow.(2/3)
(DIR) Post #AVgxMTzJAVgsjWIIIC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-15T21:40:51Z
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@nickMaybe the Shared Source crowd have some justification for why its OK for them to draw from the Free Code commons, without the need to get permission nor pay royalties, but not OK for others to draw on their code on the same terms. Also for why the people using their platforms don't get the same software freedoms that their devs got from the devs of the upstream code they use. I've yet to it explained.(3/3)
(DIR) Post #AW2E4kv18aBdop1Vgm by Kutaloo@mastodon.social
2023-05-26T03:57:00Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon You do fucking *what*?
(DIR) Post #AXGWjtMgNAzLfgDUi8 by Kutaloo@mastodon.social
2023-07-01T23:23:36Z
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@element YO! I've never been so happy to have misunderstood.I'd issue a formal apology if I could. Thanks Matrix/Element. Forgive me for my misunderstanding, I rescind my ill informed critique!
(DIR) Post #AYXtSv1WVLpVEIzEGm by craftyguy@freeradical.zone
2023-08-09T06:21:10Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon I think that E2EE gets a bit dicey when it's used by public officials whose communications between themselves should be auditable by the court if necessary, and not 100% private. When discourse amongst themselves can be hidden (forever), it becomes much harder / impossible to identify abuses from the people with the most power, and convict them.
(DIR) Post #AYYKsZMgLqWCLdL5No by vector1dev@mstdn.vector1.dev
2023-08-09T11:28:07Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon Matrix or Element dev?
(DIR) Post #AYYL00PoB1wAGpLal6 by liaizon@social.wake.st
2023-05-10T14:39:38Z
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@glitch I had read a bit about their earlier Israeli connections and now that this is coming up again do you happen to know any good articles published about that history? I remember finding a deep dive blogpost years ago that covered with citations the whole thing
(DIR) Post #AYYL01U6CYxnaQMX5M by omasanori@mstdn.maud.io
2023-08-09T11:29:40Z
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@liaizon This one? https://diginomics.io/news/matrix-new-vector-real-time-chat-open-decentralized
(DIR) Post #AYYMOw4Da3JJyihSQS by 71cc@ieji.de
2023-08-09T11:45:12Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon can you tell them to enable federation and leave their channels publicly joinable? thanks
(DIR) Post #AYYRKvuGjcBO5pxOtM by bgtlover@linuxrocks.online
2023-08-09T12:40:30Z
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@element @amatecha @matrix @liaizon encrypted messaging, or encrypted messages? that's an important distinction
(DIR) Post #Acu71nzoFf6JGWoxai by parleur@mastodon.parleur.net
2023-12-17T15:04:48Z
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@element Ok.I’ll do.No problem.@amatecha @matrix @liaizon