Post AVeV9eZXJpzmlLPik4 by baldur@toot.cafe
(DIR) More posts by baldur@toot.cafe
(DIR) Post #AVeV9ZBFMiay2Z0kgi by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-05-13T11:59:25Z
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Dude will tie themselves into knots rationalising their desire to be selfish by citing everything between Aristoteles, John Dewey, and utilitarianism, in lengthy hyper-complex intellectual posturing that basically just boils down to:"But I wanna!"
(DIR) Post #AVeV9Zr4rC3W8Ia9tA by witchescauldron@activism.openworlds.info
2023-05-13T12:06:12Z
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@baldur this is true, with the #postmodern default we would end up with mess.What happens if we try not to do the postmodernist default?What would that looklike #nothingnew
(DIR) Post #AVeV9aca0a3MVco5vk by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-05-13T12:07:05Z
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@witchescauldron This has nothing to do with postmodernism and everything to do with dudes rationalising their own selfishness.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9bAby3H8DAjGyW by witchescauldron@activism.openworlds.info
2023-05-13T12:10:28Z
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@baldur you are not wrong, but step back for a wider view to try and see and talk about the root of this mess. I would say this is an example of #blocking from the #postmodern path.Can we look at this from a #modernist view to take a different path?Good faith question.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9bsDLw9aOP85wG by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-05-13T12:12:10Z
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@witchescauldron So, I did a PhD that focused on the application of Derrida’s ideas to interactivity. I’m not the guy you come at trying to blame postmodernism for all the world’s ills.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9cYOp5tiVErmgy by witchescauldron@activism.openworlds.info
2023-05-13T12:17:24Z
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@baldur can understand that, trying to highlight the bad use of the #mainstreaming of #postmodernism and highlight this in the current social mess of the last 40 years.And yes, understand that #postmodernisam and #neoliberalism are dead ideologies. But they have both deeply shaped the last 40 years of #mainstreaming culture.The mess we work in today, thus it is useful to ask questions on good paths out of this mess.#modernisam
(DIR) Post #AVeV9cnzt6NHHcAF0K by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-05-13T12:13:37Z
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@witchescauldron Also, none of the guys I’m talking about in the post ever cite a single postmodern philosopher and I highly doubt they’ve even cracked a single book by any philosopher or academic who you’d consider postmodern. They’re all utilitarian and classicists all the way.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9d6mlFP4DsxFI0 by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-05-13T12:20:55Z
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@witchescauldron Yeah, that's nonsense. Sorry, not sorry. It's all capitalism all the way down. Philosophical movements such as postmodernism or modernism are just window-dressing on an amoral, anti-intellectual capitalist hellscape.Any philosophical movement, even the ones that power actually pays attention to such as utilitarianism, is just completely irrelevant. Deck chairs on the Titanic.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9dxxZXwCsnpiAi by witchescauldron@activism.openworlds.info
2023-05-13T12:23:12Z
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@baldur OK we can leave this here... if ideas and thinking do not matter then mess it is :)mess can be good, and it can be bad, in the current social mess it's VERY bad https://visionon.tv/w/gq6qCiUoC2J8RqhYHgpmzq how to deal with this is a good faith question.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9eZXJpzmlLPik4 by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-05-13T12:30:32Z
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@witchescauldron Also, I always have an extreme scepticism about those who blame postmodernism for society's ills because a lot of the anti-postmodernists are bedfellows with reactionaries who think these cultural ideas have mainstreamed moral and sexual degeneracy, which is just code for homophobia, transphobia, and misogyny.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9fL2TDzd8fdeme by witchescauldron@activism.openworlds.info
2023-05-13T12:40:49Z
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@baldur Can continue this if you like.Let's put this one into the #mainstreaming miss use of #postmodernisam the is a lot of this, kinda of a natural outcome, it's a mess. Am with Chomsky on this one https://visionon.tv/w/p/kaafmbuLWyASifGg7DZ9y3What would a #modernist path out of the current mess look like? And yes, I understand there is a bad history. Let's not re tread that path. What is a good path?An example is #XR "tell the truth" is a modernist path.Tell the "truths" it is not.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9g57hsr9RbCScC by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-05-13T12:54:28Z
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@witchescauldron No, let's retread that pathYou're repurposing the argument of the religious right. They blame society's decline on postmodernism having mainstreamed moral relativismYou don't get to gloss over the fact that this is specifically an attack against gay rights, trans rights, and women's rights.There is no causal link between the state of the world and postmodernism. It's all about power and money. Blaming postmodernism sides you with the most hateful reactionaries around
(DIR) Post #AVeV9gWm34ySpM8XiK by witchescauldron@activism.openworlds.info
2023-05-13T13:01:25Z
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@baldur Think this is easy to answer.nop,nop,And worth talking about, there are overlaps between the economics of #neoliberalism and the use of #postmodern philosophy over the last 40 years. We have a HUGE social mess, and no social language or thinking to compost this mess.We need a way of thinking, #Modernism is a shovel, we have lots of mess to compost.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9hBXbVaGrnD6G0 by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-05-13T13:05:43Z
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@witchescauldron You are not making any sense whatsoever. What matters is who is in power. If you want change, you need to change who is in power using whatever nonviolent, peaceful means available.Blaming postmodernism and "social mess" sounds to me like you're just a reactionary who wants to walk back gay rights, reproductive rights, trans rights, women's rights, and civil rights in general. It sounds like bigotry.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9iA9y84btnZVk8 by witchescauldron@activism.openworlds.info
2023-05-13T12:50:04Z
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@baldur on this subject, this is a good mix https://novaramedia.com/2023/03/20/billions-will-die-if-they-dont-listen-to-us-aaron-bastani-meets-roger-hallam/ that crosses this conversation and address the mess we likely talk around.How would you talk about this, using ideas, ideology, philosophes etc. That is in a thinking practical sense. Pointing fingers has a lot of overlap as pointing paths, but it's different.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9iQoyBOujTMoiG by baldur@toot.cafe
2023-05-13T13:08:28Z
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@witchescauldron Postmodernism and "moral relativism" is a favourite punching bag of the religious right and fascists. When you come at me with the same kind of rhetoric, I have to assume that you're sympathetic to their ideas on society and culture.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9j1gl6tKZocGB6 by witchescauldron@activism.openworlds.info
2023-05-13T13:16:45Z
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@baldur Am obviously not talking about that. Defensiveness and personalizing this is not useful, apart from it illustrates what am talking about.https://visionon.tv/w/sNo39CPaX7MswQ57tVy2TR mess and more mess.Is #modernism useful for taking a different path.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9jllzlkqskB40e by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2023-05-14T17:15:13.146067Z
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So... my interpretation of events....Is that the world was largely agrarian prior to the industrial revolution. The industrial revolution sparked the gilded age of growing inequality and social strife, and eventually World War 1 occurred.World war 1 was a world-scale war taking advantage of the power of the industrial revolution, and it traumatized the world. This led to the modernist movement which started to disregard tradition and while it relied on authority was working to create new answers in a new world.Modernism obviously led to some new answers, and some were better and some were much worse, but eventually that led to World War 2.World war 2 was another world-scale war taking advantage of the technologies and ideologies of the modern age, and it too was deeply traumatizing. This is one of the factors that led to postmodernism, which disregards tradition but additionally disregards authority.And it seems that modernism tries to find universal objective truths and post-modernism rejects universal objective truths. It could be said that both viewpoints are asking the wrong question.If one is looking for universal truth, and they think they find it, then it gives one an ironclad moral certitude that they've found "The Truth", so anything in pursuit of "The Truth" is acceptable. This led to ideologies like fascism and national socialism which were convinced of their superiority to everything to the point of violent conflict.By contrast, if one totally rejects universal truth, then it becomes too easy to disregard things that are "universal enough". It can cause your ideology to reject things that are real and true because they're inconvenient or because there's a miniscule minority that might be an exception to the rule. For example, there are countless examples where postmodernists reject fundamental realities of humanity because it's inconvenient or because there's a miniscule minority that might be an exception to the rule.So both embracing of total universal truth and the rejection of any universal truth are not productive. There is a universe that is objective and so regardless of our point of view we ought to try to understand the objective universe because for example if you are hit by a speeding train then no amount of argumentation will protect you from physical harm. Moreover, there are commonalities that come from our shared humanity that can be considered to be objective for the purposes of discussions with other humans. Our brains are almost universally wired in certain ways and identifying those commonalities and our shared humanity is deeply important because sometimes those objective human truths aren't rational or logical, but they are important because we are human.On the other hand, there are things that aren't universal, and that's where we need to be careful not to ascribe things to universality that aren't universal. Some of the attitudes we believe are universal are in fact cultural constructs. A good example would be the modern era's rejection of slavery. In the history of culture, slavery is more common than uncommon. The western rejection of slavery is partially cultural due to the influence of Christianity and the idea that all men are created equal, and partially practical due to the reduced requirement for slavery in the wake of the industrial revolution. It's a deeply held conviction, but it isn't by any means universal.I know I'm focusing a lot on the attribute of rejecting tradition or objectivity in both and the rejection of authority in the one, but in the same way as if you're crossing the ocean a change in bearing of just a degree or two could land you in a completely different country, the first principles of a philosophy fundamentally change the destination it might come to. If history is any indication, the next phase of history is going to be a historical revival where many of the traditions we've cast aside will be reclaimed. Not all of them, because some of them were cast aside for good reasons, and we won't reject all the novel things we've created because they were created for good reasons.Don't get me wrong, I'm deeply concerned with a traditional revival because while our novelty has become decadent, it has also brought about a lot of new and good ways of looking at the world. Whether I like the idea of something coming or not, or whether I think it's the right direction or not, cannot have a bearing on whether I predict such a thing occurring.One beneficial thing to a traditional revival on an environmental front would be a return to the sort of "salt of the earth" actions that benefit everyone, such as having a garden in your back yard. Rediscovering the pride in making things with your hands and reaping the benefits of food and craft with a smaller environmental footprint because they literally take place using materials from a small geographical area.Technology would play a large role in improving such traditions, for example by letting people who are better at a thing spread information about successes over the Internet on a scale that was impossible previously.The Internet can also democratize access to information about these things, ensuring that individuals who would otherwise be blind can instead get access to the best way to do things, ensuring that their time is spent most productively even if they're not doing things in a modern industrialized manner.The biggest danger from my view is that the Internet is slowly losing its status as a free place. Little by little, interests are getting their fingers into it. Governments are increasingly legislating the Internet with a hope to amplify messages the powers that be prefer and silence or minimize messages the powers that be disagree with or don't want out there. That could very quickly become stuff like information about gardening because they don't get tax money or campaign contributions off of free food grown in your back yard.
(DIR) Post #AVeV9kp05Fvk92h9g8 by witchescauldron@activism.openworlds.info
2023-05-13T13:53:43Z
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@baldur let's try and look at this from an example, abstract is going nowhere useful soon. An example is things like #socialhub where #ActivityPub is "organized" here is a thried https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/how-we-talk-to-each-other/3187 that came from this https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/lets-talk-about-the-protocol-wars/3177/9 a polemical thread to mediate and STOP the mess we were/are making of the "protocol wars".#blocking vs affectivness... people don't see this, they just see "relativism" who is blocking here, the subject for me of this thread :)
(DIR) Post #AVeVW8866cKynvIUVc by dew_the_dew@nicecrew.digital
2023-05-14T17:19:31.401616Z
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which truth keeps you from starving to death
(DIR) Post #AVeVbZtaIfYuMn6foW by dew_the_dew@nicecrew.digital
2023-05-14T17:20:30.495600Z
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the great men of history are those who tame the irrational