Post AVcG9tRK9e7dFFJDs0 by SuitedUpDev@mastodon.online
(DIR) More posts by SuitedUpDev@mastodon.online
(DIR) Post #AVcBWrrDhilTE8YcWu by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-13T14:25:42.635520Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@marcan And I guess in the ones that would initially sign up, they'll end up learning about broken Xorg really is and so adopt Wayland.
(DIR) Post #AVcBypQaKZltnfQpkm by a1ba@suya.place
2023-05-13T14:31:10.013279Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@marcan should not forget that Micheal Larabel is also a journalist.
(DIR) Post #AVcE7c8VJmDH5jI968 by fristi@akkos.fritu.re
2023-05-13T14:55:09.055589Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@marcan I think the problem was with how you worded your previous post. It made it seem like you want to force everyone, unconditionally, on wayland. I get that you don't want to support X11 anymore on asahi, and that's your own choice and right, and it makes sense for the target system. On the flipside, there are people still relying on X11 for legacy reasons (software not working on XWayland, or they need something else from X11 that Wayland does not provide). But those should just stick to distros still supporting it.But it's sentences like > Repeat after me: Xorg is dead.that are highly provocative and serve no purpose. No, Xorg is not dead (not yet anyway), so drop the redditspeak. I currently still rely on X11 as a KDE user. KDE wayland is not yet polished to the point of it surpassing X11. I don't mind switching once it does though. But it's almost like you're trying to tell people like me, who have nothing to do with Asahi, that we should just have Wayland shoved down our throat. That's not acceptable. And that's probably why people got mad at you. Yes we know X11 is slowly becoming driftwood. No need for you to come stab us about it. Many of us want wayland to succeed, but you should also understand that wayland isn't anywhere NEAR as ready as you make it out to be. It's up to devs to actually start using it, and if they don't, then wayland is just as dead as X11.
(DIR) Post #AVcFSxieMsGe46wTIW by gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno
2023-05-13T15:10:13Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@marcan the only way X lives nowadays is through Xenocara, the OpenBSD fork, which I guess is there to stay as I've heard Wayland kinda "hardcodes" some Linux stuff which makes it difficult to have Wayland on BSD systems. Correct me if I'm wrong.
(DIR) Post #AVcG9tRK9e7dFFJDs0 by SuitedUpDev@mastodon.online
2023-05-13T15:17:57Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@gianmarcogg03 I can imagine that the Wayland devs probably hardcoded some parts of it to push development forward for the moment and probably plan to revisit those hardcoded parts on later time when things stabilize.
(DIR) Post #AVcGY7GGPxjl3tgbA0 by gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno
2023-05-13T15:22:22Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@SuitedUpDev I hope so since I want other libre operating systems to move forward too, I don't want a future Linux monoculture or something like that.
(DIR) Post #AVcHLWm4Lk9wNX7kUC by fristi@akkos.fritu.re
2023-05-13T15:31:16.741203Z
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@marcan I see. (I have not seen the original post, only parts of it through other posts, so apologies for that). I figured as much, but some parts of your post seemed a bit strong worded. But I can get it for Asahi's usecase, it's a more specialized distro and it will have to pick its battles wisely; not all things can be supported. Legacy support is a luxury one can miss in such cases. People should understand that when they pick a distro.Still, keep in mind there's still a lot of X11 users out there. Not by choice but because we still used a DE or something else that has no wayland support. We don't mind switching, it's just that this usually means switching to Gnome or sway, and possibly dealing with a bunch of other stuff too. That's something that puts people off.
(DIR) Post #AVcHhfgXtqYOO06Dzs by Kensan@mastodon.social
2023-05-13T15:28:16Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jamey @marcan hah, yes that’s spot on 😆Somehow with open source there comes a lot of entitlement and strong opinions… one of the good things is, that one can put in the work to back up these opinions.What’s clear to me in this scenario is that Asahi/ @marcan are putting in so much work improving the whole ecosystem by chasing down obscure issues down to the compiler. I would think that would afford the project/him some more credibility when weighing in on issues like Xorg etc…
(DIR) Post #AVcJjWd8jjEen3WBW4 by fristi@akkos.fritu.re
2023-05-13T15:58:01.418272Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@marcan Personally I just wish KDE did a good round of polishing on their wayland support. The support is there, but it's wonky in some areas and occasionally stuff crashes. It was also a complete non-option on my nvidia-powered system (it would just promptly crash on login) back when I tested it, I think that was a year ago, maybe almost 2.I hope wayland gets to that point where it's more universally implemented and supported. Perhaps it will help that RedHat is also looking to dump X11 support, so it might entice devs to rethink sticking to X11. More stuff moves to wayland, end-users get a better wayland experience.
(DIR) Post #AVcLiVPzxOMgeN0r9E by flameeyes@mastodon.social
2023-05-13T15:00:20Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@marcan oh. XMMS all over again.
(DIR) Post #AVcLruFB1f7KFdQwim by jamey@toot.cat
2023-05-13T15:00:17Z
4 likes, 2 repeats
@marcan I worked on X for a number of years: I wrote XCB, and in one X server release I authored more commits than anyone else. And… you're right that people need to move on. I'm confused about why that would be controversial.
(DIR) Post #AVcMS823Er9TRKZB5M by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-13T16:28:02.987658Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@gianmarcogg03 @marcan libinput and it's dependency on systemd-udev is the only one I'm aware of and that's a compositor dependency which could be replaced by another, either by a libinput shim or writing a new input module for compositors.At least FreeBSD and NetBSD got wayland support (NetBSD one probably still being very WIP but the work is just few years old and doesn't have a lot of workforce).
(DIR) Post #AVcMWIA7W6uC14KGTw by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
2023-05-13T16:29:15.232575Z
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@marcan total xorg death
(DIR) Post #AVcMaC81tN1cSfD0oy by dascandy42@mastodon.social
2023-05-13T15:01:46Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@marcan The people saying "I will never leave Xorg and my X11-only software" will end up in the same place as PPC Mac users and Amiga users. Just ignore them and let them do whatever they think they want to do.
(DIR) Post #AVcNeVxaCVwn51wjQW by fristi@akkos.fritu.re
2023-05-13T16:41:56.386186Z
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@mikoto @marcan good to hear 🎉incidentally I think KDE also had a different scaling issue recently, I think it was related to Qt changing something in how fractional scaling worked in their gui toolkit. Maybe that also had an effect on wayland scaling, but I know the Qt issue happened on X11 too. It made scaling quite messy.Anyway, I guess I'll give wayland another whirl. One thing that wayland did help with back then was improve dual-monitor performance, which I'll be glad to have once again.
(DIR) Post #AVcO6XuUXmADEjrnu4 by ignaloidas@not.acu.lt
2023-05-13T16:47:00.199Z
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@lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @marcan@social.treehouse.systems Q: How to get more people developing Wayland?A: Suggest people to maintain Xorg
(DIR) Post #AVcOEQhzCfiRDYmDnk by paulo@boks.moe
2023-05-13T16:48:25.537486Z
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@marcan @riesi yep you just need to ask nicelyit's why it took wayland 13 years to get fractional scalingand took gnome 19 years to get a preview on the file pickerpeople say it's the developers fault but it really isn't, just entitled users
(DIR) Post #AVcOMIDMfRBNBuCep6 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-13T16:49:26.127456Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@ignaloidas @marcan It sounds like a joke but it's almost how it went for me, I got tired of X11-specific bugs and I knew they were architectural ones.So I switched to wayland and proceeded to fix bugs in applications/client-libraries.
(DIR) Post #AVcOP2zRjCecqG0SMy by fristi@akkos.fritu.re
2023-05-13T16:50:21.414854Z
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@marcan @mikoto no it was another issue, one which caused certain gui elements in Qt applications to not scale (or overscale a lot) causing stuff to get misaligned and incorrectly sized. I think it had something to do with a change in underlying code that did the scaling calculations. However this only affected apps using certain elements, and only if they were on the older side. Recently updated apps did not have the issue.
(DIR) Post #AVcORPaifVDhW8ZHjk by lina@eientei.org
2023-05-13T16:50:39.565281Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@paulo im not gonna ask nicely, im just gonna use what i like more and i think peter t. wayland and GNOME sux
(DIR) Post #AVcPUL1UD3DQAj2zlg by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
2023-05-13T17:02:31.142849Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lina @paulo i use wayland and gnome it's so good
(DIR) Post #AVcPZmvps9WsB50Ft2 by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
2023-05-13T17:03:30.121206Z
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@paulo @marcan @riesi @marcan @riesi it's only now that the filepicker thing could be fixed though
(DIR) Post #AVcPi4fdntz7VhNa0O by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
2023-05-13T17:05:00.126728Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@fristi @marcan they're gonna focus on wayland from now on
(DIR) Post #AVcQqcygEcAWBNvXwe by gerwingle@mstdn.starnix.network
2023-05-13T17:17:44Z
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@gianmarcogg03 @marcan Wayland is simply a protocol, it works on BSD. Xenocara doesn't fix anything of note with Xorg these days, still lacks GUI isolation, still has infinite security holes, still has screen tearing, and still is as buggy and old as ever
(DIR) Post #AVcSlEFwvA0RyFYfDM by Di4na@hachyderm.io
2023-05-13T17:39:09Z
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@falktx @marcan also want to point out that considering that it is sad that *noone volunteered* is kinda the problem here. Since when volunteering to be hurt to help others with no support and nothing to get in return, what do you expect?Why should developers out there "take care" of something that it seems no one really want? Why are the users that want it so much not taking care of said devs? isn't *that* a bit sad?
(DIR) Post #AVcWeKiUu0gLnTsX0y by be@floss.social
2023-05-13T18:18:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@marcan oh no toots are ending up on Phoronix now 😨
(DIR) Post #AVcYOvofOpFQ8NY1uC by Di4na@hachyderm.io
2023-05-13T17:40:07Z
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@falktx @marcan If anything, we should be happy that no one *volunteered*. It is the fact that people volunteered for so long to maintain something we knew would hurt them that should be sad.
(DIR) Post #AVcgebzBh9VctkSNhQ by SuitedUpDev@mastodon.online
2023-05-13T20:14:50Z
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@gianmarcogg03 my guess is that the Wayland devs don't want a Linux monoculture either.I know that Wayland has already been ported to FreeBSD and Dragonfly BSD. So my guess is that it is a matter of time, not a matter of unwillingness.
(DIR) Post #AVcq4xPPZC7iSOMNv6 by crafti@akkoma.0x68756773.moe
2023-05-13T14:33:03.725466Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
*doesn't read the post**keeps using x11 with my proprietary nvidia driver on my gt 710 running XFCE*
(DIR) Post #AVcqAnmIHrWOKBqlqS by chjara@snowdin.town
2023-05-13T21:57:00.099740Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@marcan i'll be sinking with the ship until it's too much trouble to keep up, mostly i don't want to port my settings to a new wm and unfamiliar environment
(DIR) Post #AVcqFI1TmMqpHn5p6u by usernameswift@snowdin.town
2023-05-13T21:59:18.367360Z
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@lanodan @gianmarcogg03 @marcan Are you sure about that systemd dependency? I just used libinput tools today on my FreeBSD system. It could be a fork, I suppose, but I kind of doubt that that is the case because of the work that would be needed there.
(DIR) Post #AVcqFIoOqTyzjVytMW by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2023-05-13T22:01:47.548640Z
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@usernameswift @gianmarcogg03 @marcan Pretty sure, do note systemd-udev rather than systemd as an init system, I wouldn't be surprised that FreeBSD has either an udev shim or something like eudev (extracting udev from systemd, like it used to be).
(DIR) Post #AVcr5Csa9DPKOMgfeS by usernameswift@snowdin.town
2023-05-13T22:05:21.275516Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @gianmarcogg03 @marcan Ah right, of course! I forgot that Gentoo maintained that. From my quick search of the ports tree, it looks like there's a udev-compatible shim for devd.
(DIR) Post #AVd2TJVEGyRXNbSgng by ignaloidas@not.acu.lt
2023-05-14T00:19:20.546Z
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@chjara@snowdin.town @marcan@social.treehouse.systems port your wmIt has been done before
(DIR) Post #AVd2jj0bD4ot7OxbOK by paulo@boks.moe
2023-05-14T00:22:09.070990Z
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@marcan @riesi i wouldn't know, macos is proprietaryi did try wayland for about 10 minutes before it crashed a few months agoquite a few missing features and mpv was laggy
(DIR) Post #AVdUNX43jd2kQ5mioa by Di4na@hachyderm.io
2023-05-14T05:31:57Z
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@falktx @marcan no we do not need to. It would be nice if we do. But we owe people that use something we *gifted them* nothing.I like being nice, but saying we *need to provide it* is, quite literally, a toxis abusive relationship. Like textbook.
(DIR) Post #AVe2h1jFLZ2PT1W7sW by Di4na@hachyderm.io
2023-05-14T11:56:29Z
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@falktx @marcan i mean I think i would say otherwise. That when we use something we should consider its maintenance. The makers should definitely think about it, but it is not like X was made to be hard to maintain at the time.But the users are definitely expecting far more than reasonable from the makers in your current demands. The whole of open source is based on the idea the users are the one responsible. Do we need an other equilibrium maybe but... Beware.
(DIR) Post #AVeHHjXfKIev8PUuLg by Di4na@hachyderm.io
2023-05-14T14:39:59Z
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@falktx @marcan so what you are saying is that it is not realistic for developers to be paid and/or that most of this software provide less value than the cost of maintaining it.So the maintainers should keep sacrificing their time for others because... Well we are really glad they are doing it and not us?
(DIR) Post #AVeHnrULJjc32xGNjE by jaxter184@social.linux.pizza
2023-05-14T14:45:50Z
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@marcan @falktx @Di4na while it is great that cases like yours are *possible*, imo the problem is that your case is far from *common*. not really anyone's fault, or a fatal flaw of FOSS, just a problem i see often, with a decent amount of attention, and one that could really use a general-purpose solution that works for both larger and smaller projects
(DIR) Post #AVf1C27RwKfWu9SHIn by alexandria@anarchism.space
2023-05-14T20:28:39Z
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@marcan @falktx @Di4na True, but I think this is moving away from the point raised by falctx, that developers WOULD move to wayland if there was better tooling.Its one thing to say, "Hey, stop using that, we're making this instead" and another thing to say "Hey, stop using that, use this instead. oh, and BTW we broke all the things you give a shit about but are going to push this on you instead"
(DIR) Post #AVf1C31oYlktixpI9o by alexandria@anarchism.space
2023-05-14T20:30:06Z
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@marcan @falktx @Di4na It's like we've learned nothing about how systemd was deployed and presented to the community
(DIR) Post #AVf1C42Conf8qT17PE by alexandria@anarchism.space
2023-05-14T20:33:07Z
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@marcan @falktx @Di4na Like, if it wasnt for the windows 8/8.1/10/11 debacle, I can totally see why windows is the dominant OS.
(DIR) Post #AVf1C4hgKaq6v6QF3Q by Di4na@hachyderm.io
2023-05-14T20:36:51Z
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@alexandria @marcan @falktx More precisely it is "Hey we did this thing, we moved to it, this thing you were using before is still around and open source. If you have needs the new one does not cover, you are welcome to help us make them happen in it *or* you can maintain/pay someone to maintain the old one, but we decided not to because we care about our mental health."
(DIR) Post #AVf1C5OZl79P48UUue by Di4na@hachyderm.io
2023-05-14T20:38:53Z
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@alexandria @marcan @falktx Windows is the dominant OS because, among other things, they can afford to pay a frigton of people to keep the old stuff working. We would happily do that if we had comparable money to pay Linux developers. We do not. By a laaaaaarge margin. You are welcome to start finding way to fund that work though, we have run out of most ideas at this point.
(DIR) Post #AVf1C64PFabx9s3u76 by alexandria@anarchism.space
2023-05-14T20:40:00Z
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@Di4na @marcan @falktx I love that you're phrasing this as a "you" versus "them" thing lmao
(DIR) Post #AVkcUWQMoaTRWOtrCy by scruss@xoxo.zone
2023-05-13T22:17:56Z
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@lonjil @marcan Yeah, I'll switch to wayland when it's usable. As of now it's a mess, and won't let me do the remote work I need to do.X is also a mess, I know. But it does what I need. And I'm a user, not a programmer.
(DIR) Post #AVkckOoUsaS2YBl1Qu by Kensan@mastodon.social
2023-05-13T15:05:41Z
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@jamey @marcan Is it partly because people get attached to “the way things work”? It’s usually hard to break a habit so I can understand reluctance to move to something else. However, in software, I have the impression that people feel personally attacked if something they use/like gets criticized…
(DIR) Post #AVkckPffgszBD6dUJc by josh@social.joshtriplett.org
2023-05-13T18:37:52.613744Z
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I think people have some notion that if they complain hard enough or throw up enough roadblocks, the thing they prefer will magically start getting maintained. It's the same notion that arises around architecture archaeology, init intransigence, OS ossification, and other dead-end development.Closely related: most Open Source projects let obscure use cases get some free maintenance, both because we have sympathy for such cases and because they're *usually* not much trouble. People get used to the free maintenance. So, when a project comes along that says "no, that's not supported" because something *isn't* trivial to support, people get angry.
(DIR) Post #AVkckQaOI0M831Amiu by Kensan@mastodon.social
2023-05-13T19:48:35Z
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@josh Yes, I think there’s a lot to what you say. I think the vast majority of open source projects try to accommodate users because after all you want people to use your things and help them. However at some point this accommodation does indeed turn into entitlement…I think what many users do not see are all the trade offs involved and they do not realize or are not aware just how *much* work actually goes into something that works well.
(DIR) Post #AVkckRE5uO7C29kUbo by Kensan@mastodon.social
2023-05-13T19:51:19Z
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@josh I have a ton of respect for @marcan seeing how much he cares. Chasing down bugs throughout the entire stack and, of course, putting up with the Linux kernel dev process etc. Then on top of the plight of the maintainer, angry comments from the peanut gallery…
(DIR) Post #AVkckRzb3m72PTyQeO by Kensan@mastodon.social
2023-05-14T11:43:52Z
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@josh @marcan Having reread my own comment, instead of just with words, I actually have to support what he’s done because I feel I personally benefit from him fighting “the good fight”. What is the best way to support you, @marcan? Patreon, GitHub Sponsoring or spending some of my own time on a particular issue?
(DIR) Post #AVkcnlLfYEZlJIsS12 by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-05-17T16:09:23.808365Z
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No it's not. Patreon does not have a 40 year track record of actively trying to undermine the free software movement.
(DIR) Post #AVkcojc3URKmDV0Nt2 by Kensan@mastodon.social
2023-05-14T12:28:14Z
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@marcan @josh I will start with sponsoring on GitHub.Thanks for the reference. Coincidentally, I am currently trying to learn more about Aarch64 :)
(DIR) Post #AVkcokHX0EVkI8PVXE by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-05-17T16:09:34.844836Z
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Whatever you do, don't do this.
(DIR) Post #AVkcvvdvA1pdYRJAiO by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-05-17T16:10:47.447607Z
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This is FUDfrom the users POV they can hire a developer. > ial software (which is usually proprietary) there is an incentive to maintain it.No there isn't. There's an incentive to "maintain" (add bugs and spyware)
(DIR) Post #AVkd4YvoyD2PisnWOO by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-05-17T16:12:20.918992Z
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This is FUD. You can throw a millionth of a 10gran and you'll get a millionth of a 10gran worth of support. You want more support, you can pay for it
(DIR) Post #AVkd7AdfkKmJFVYJay by troed@ioc.exchange
2023-05-13T14:24:07Z
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@marcan ah the age old argument between the talkers and the doersdoers. always. win.<3
(DIR) Post #AVkf7nSraqNdZavI1Y by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-05-17T16:35:20.552823Z
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>, but hiring people is one of the most costly expenses we can have, it is not realistic for the far majority of people.People are expensive but the FUD part is the "realistic" part. Does the hobo who's picking through my garbage have the werewithal to afford to hire a dev? The bottle he just picked up would actually cover a little bit if he chose to use it on support rather than meth. Granted: one pop bottle won't go very far.
(DIR) Post #AVkgCvbGsA5qCurlxY by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-05-17T16:47:25.978328Z
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> a small company can pay in between 100-500 eur in expenses for all services it uses, a bit more for renting an office.Irrelevant and I don't care. That's up to the company to manage and not relevant to anything.> a single full-time position is more than all those extra expenses combined.Don't care. > for most people, even those with a stable job, the thought of hiring someone to do a task full-time is just out of question.Thankfully we don't live in the 1950s when the ONLY way software development happened was full time employeesLook. I've worked for less than minimum wage enough in the past and am unemployed now. As a dev. I've run a software development company, and worked in shops from little garage shops to large international monsters. People will work for money, and there's lots of work to do. Whining about what other people can afford is a waste of time when we could actually be fixing bugs. If you can't afford to hire a dev for the jobs you want done, that sucks, but the broader point of "it's not realistic" is the thing that's not realistic.
(DIR) Post #AVkh9UGEABjkV7wjlg by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-05-17T16:58:03.718271Z
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It's a problem *internal* to the company, at best. And internal problems to one company are opportunities for everyone else. It's the responsibility of the company to manage its finances. Not all companies should even exist - lots are simply not profitable, and if they can't figure it out that's their problem.> I cannot afford to pay someone to do work for me, I'm sorry to hear that but rather than waste the rest of our time with this thread, go and fix that. > most people also cannot.This part however isn't true. The local methhead who is picking through my garbage can spare that 5 cent bottle worth of meth. He *chooses* otherwise. There are hundreds of trillions of dollars on the table that *could* go towards fixing Xorg but people make choices *not* to spend it on fixing Xorg.> It is unrealistic to expect people to be able to pay for such things.> Where is the FUD in this?It isn't unrealistic if you knew what people spent money on. It makes people afraid of going out and getting that money.
(DIR) Post #AVkiWXjHX76NsD5tdA by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-05-17T17:13:25.139163Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
> why do you keep insinuating homeless people are drug users, wtfBecause my community has a massive problem with meth addicted homeless people, and they literally go into my garbage to get pop bottles. Which, good for them, at least they are doing something productive with their time > money is not a big motivator for me.good for you.> and why are you so annoyed by all this?Because there is plenty of people looking for work, plenty of people with money to pay them, and plenty of work needing to be done and what is *not* helpful is stuff like this https://mastodon.falktx.com/users/falktx/statuses/110367227766392453> most of the people I know really cannot afford to hire others, Then fix that.> i don't wanna fix thatthat's up to you then> they are strugglebussingI'm sorry you live in such a shithole. Go fix that. Oh wait, you don't want to? OK then that's up to you.
(DIR) Post #AVklU4cJ6Lj2rkLV3o by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-05-17T17:46:36.026370Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff wow something is seriously wrong with you.> everyone's situation is different, they can't just "fix" it, when I say most folks I know don't have enough savings that doesn't mean it is their fault as if they could magically fix their situation. Who's fault it is is irrelevant, certainly to this thread. If they are in a bad situation, that sucks, but it's up to them to fix.> I am sure if they could, they would.That's where you're wrong. There's almost always ways of improving one's financial situation.> and being self-sufficient is not inherently bad, why do you assume it is a shithole?Because you're complaining.> people with money dont want to pay for certain things anyway Then make it worth their while to do so. This isn't going to happen without some kind of work, by someone. Software isn't going to magically fix itself.> so this "plenty of money to go around" doesnt applyYeah, it does.
(DIR) Post #AVp0fJTiSls05Vz720 by getimiskon@fedi.getimiskon.xyz
2023-05-13T14:47:00.969936Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@marcan it's sad to know an important piece of software like Xorg is being unmaintained. I get that the devs decided to work on Wayland. That's good. But I don't think a lot of users of Linux (and other BSD-based systems) are ready to switch yet, because the developers haven't supported it yet or they don't have enough developers for it. In my opinion, those who say "I will never leave Xorg" are just contrarians, and we're full of those.
(DIR) Post #AVp11ZBKl58bA7zuyG by Adorable_Sergal@hachyderm.io
2023-05-14T02:00:26Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@marcan pro-tip: if you want to win people over to a software project, calling a resistant user base “entitled” because they have jobs to do that don't involve being a Linux display server dev isn't the greatest of optics.
(DIR) Post #AVp12cuGOahP0IWDWi by Adorable_Sergal@hachyderm.io
2023-05-14T02:20:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@marcan I urge you to just step back a moment and really think about how these words are coming off to people. Not everyone is a programmer, just like not everyone is a car mechanic or an airline pilot or a surgeon.Wayland not being production ready is not the fault of users. Playing the blame game only comes off as elitism against anyone who hasn't dumped all their star points into programming.
(DIR) Post #AVp15hPM7ESrpkWjMu by bgtlover@linuxrocks.online
2023-05-14T10:30:53Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@marcan lol, taking maintenance burdans for xorg, o my! I mean, that's one of the most involved job in foss space ever, besides becoming the bdfl of the linux kernel. The reason some of the userbase use x still, at least ones I know and I'm a part of as well, is the fact that the design of wayland prohibits some accessibility technologies from working. For example, we need global shortcuts because a screenreader isn't a window and the sr specific shortcuts have to work with any application, we need coordinates in screen space because zoom technologies need to enlarge a specific region on the screen, but window relative coordinates can't help with that. We also need overlays because zoom or highlight tracking tools need to draw a mostly transparent surface over the focused window, without actually becoming focused, the list goes on. I'm trying to come up with solutions, but most of those reduce to implement a wl protocol extension, but that'll only cause more fragmentation, so I dk.
(DIR) Post #AWcMBUTUKZF81ZUmAq by PaulDavisTheFirst@fosstodon.org
2023-06-12T14:17:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@falktx @Di4na a bit late to the party here, but i typically like to mention louigi's in-depth piece on this: https://louigiverona.com/?page=projects&s=writings&t=philosophy&a=philosophy_freedoms