Post AVaHdbEE8hVt5azZQm by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
(DIR) More posts by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
(DIR) Post #AVZbGyCMNLnzase5dQ by a1ba@suya.place
2023-05-12T08:30:26.328507Z
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@marcan while modern computers need modern software, this habit to developing something new instead of extending existing software makes me tired of Linux.Ok, I understand X11 is 40 years old and developing Wayland was a necessity (maybe? I still see no big difference) but PipeWire or systemd?...Yes, I like PW more technically, especially that it finally unifies the audio and video, and different audio APIs but at this time both PipeWire and PulseAudio are equally buggy. I even developed a joke that while PW and PA being mutually exclusive, it's better to be ready to switch between them because when PW doesn't work, PA does and vice versa. And I'm not even talking about that PA at it's first releases was nothing but a white noise generator.Same about systemd. It's initial premise was about quick boot, but systemd getting more and more bloated, it's just not true anymore. I use systemd on all my desktops and servers but on embedded? I would rather stick to sysvinit (or even OpenRC idk) because it's actually lightweight.
(DIR) Post #AVZc0nMB16jLI25Xrk by a1ba@suya.place
2023-05-12T08:38:43.728192Z
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@marcan >I still see no big differencebut that's actually a good point for Wayland (or more it's compositors) because if it doesn't scream at user like "your GPU sucks go get yourself a Radeon", it's a good alternative.As a comparison, you don't notice if you run PW or PA unless it stops working and then you just switch to another as a temporary solution unless the bug doesn't get fixed.
(DIR) Post #AVZgZW5bbjtrgk9KAi by bitpirate@mas.to
2023-05-12T09:10:49Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@a1ba @marcan ranting about Wayland because nvidia can't be reasoned with is victim blaming.Nvidia: *requires signed firmware*Community: fucking nouveau devsNvidia: *refuses to support GBM*Community: fucking wayland devsYes, a lot of people out there have nvidia cards and yes, these are high quality and offer CUDA. Doesn't change the fact that nvidia is doing seemingly everything to obstruct OSS development of modern graphic stacks.
(DIR) Post #AVZgZWtEdDbCAfMxWq by a1ba@suya.place
2023-05-12T09:29:46.472567Z
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@bitpirate @marcan I make no assumption about the GPU. X11 is used in KDE session on the Steam Deck, though I don't know the real reason for this, I tried the Wayland session and it was fine. On my laptop with Intel both Wayland and X11 KDE sessions are installed and both are just usable with no differences. I used to test the Wayland Kwin session on my desktop with NVIDIA, it was a bit slow probably due to high GPU usage but I expected that so it's ok.
(DIR) Post #AVaHbw3hiotZ78HDEG by galibert@piaille.fr
2023-05-12T08:26:52Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@marcan One of the (rare) strengths of the X11 environment is the (relative) easyness with which one can create a window manager, giving a lot of very interesting choices that go way farther than "gnome or kde". Initially wayland was very much "gnome or die, and force that down in the applications". Even now it looks like a wayland window manager is way more than a window manager only has to handle a lot of things that would be better written once elsewhere, but I can be wrong.
(DIR) Post #AVaHbwgLP9nt2yM4SO by erincandescent@queer.af
2023-05-12T08:32:13Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@galibert @marcan libraries like wlroots can abstract this for youJust because the protocol requires the two to be colocated doesn't mean they can't share code
(DIR) Post #AVaHbxLSwGhH6VauYK by qyliss@chaos.social
2023-05-12T09:38:58Z
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@erincandescent @galibert @marcan AIUI, the protocol also doesn't _technically_ require the two to be colocated, but we haven't really seen a system where they aren't. Closest is River (a compositor), which can outsource some WM decisions to another process using a custom Wayland protocol.
(DIR) Post #AVaHbxzsW11V7qVBXk by erincandescent@queer.af
2023-05-12T09:45:17Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@qyliss @galibert @marcan I mean yeah, you could build a compositor which exposed something like e.g. the wlroots API as a protocol, over the Wayland socket or otherwise; but nobody's done it.It doesn't make as much sense either; in my view, the separation X11 does is very much an accident of history (in particular related to how historically video hardware often only supported a single user, that user was X11, and this required the Xserver to run as root with extensive direct hardware access capabilities; but nobody wanted their WM to run as root)
(DIR) Post #AVaHbztDTksmzlOtRA by erincandescent@queer.af
2023-05-12T09:47:44Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@qyliss @galibert @marcan if you go back to e.g. Xfree86, you find that it knows far far far too much about PCI, because back then it was absolutely doing things that anyone sensible would consider to be the kernel's job
(DIR) Post #AVaHdbEE8hVt5azZQm by MischievousuTomatosu@boks.moe
2023-05-12T16:25:06.528025Z
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@marcan thank you based marcani don't have a macbook with AS and if i did i wouldn't run linux on it, but i do currently use linux (nixos) and wayland and i luv it
(DIR) Post #AVaHlZ4k1nS4jELyEK by Sobex@social.sciences.re
2023-05-12T08:33:22Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@marcan @aep The screen lock is one area where I am not sure that KDE does thing right. Perhaps Wayland imposed things, but under X.org, most implementation outside xscreensaver tended to have dark corner where the screen lock might fail (including race conditions). Unlike most feature, I am not sure whether I can trust KDE to do it right.
(DIR) Post #AVaIJm1CPfsaiS0ag4 by erincandescent@queer.af
2023-05-12T10:53:06Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@marcan @rcombs from what I can gather one intended way of doing this is the DRM Lease extension, which lets an app entirely borrow an output from the compositor and manipulate it directly through the DRM APIIt's a tad complicated as an approach though!
(DIR) Post #AVaIJniU6E67yzGfmi by erincandescent@queer.af
2023-05-12T11:01:06Z
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@marcan @rcombs it's an approach I could definitely vibe with but I think could really do with a library to handle all the handshaking and such for you
(DIR) Post #AVaKLdCKNWBfqaE9qq by aep@kraud.social
2023-05-12T07:50:52Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@marcan thats unfortunate because wayland will never work for legacy humans like me who prefer keyboard input
(DIR) Post #AVaSaakMZZWIDqn9Y8 by erincandescent@queer.af
2023-05-12T10:27:15Z
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@marcan @rcombs macOS has itVRR may be the future but there's a long tail of installed systems which will never support it
(DIR) Post #AVaSabe1Ee2V0SpbIe by erincandescent@queer.af
2023-05-12T10:30:12Z
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@marcan @rcombs I feel like the ideal approach for refresh rate switching is to give the compositor a hint and let it decide how to reach it; whether that beVRRFixed refresh rate switchIt doesn't and you suffer
(DIR) Post #AVaSacLybDCXCnOhoe by erincandescent@queer.af
2023-05-12T10:33:20Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@marcan @rcombs the hinting can be very useful even for VRR displays; for example, my desktop monitor does 30-60hz VRRBy telling the compositor you're presenting 24fps content it can know to frame double to 48hz rather than jittering