Post AVYAEXWHhfgILsccca by kevinteljeur@mastodon.online
(DIR) More posts by kevinteljeur@mastodon.online
(DIR) Post #AVXVYfMs8a9YMbhKIS by Ruth_Mottram@fediscience.org
2023-05-11T07:51:34Z
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Interesting piece in #TheEconomist who attribute 68,000 excess deaths in #Europe to high energy prices. Who to blame? Putin obviously for weaponising #energy in the invasion of #Ukraine. Successive governments for not #Decarbonising and #insulating buildings faster?Voters and consumers for not demanding #EnergyEfficiency and a resilient robust society? Ultimately perhaps blame is not constructive: but I feel this analysis does show where to focus efforts https://social.platypush.tech/@economist_bot/110348931361311866
(DIR) Post #AVXVYgBv4mzCuva5rc by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-05-11T08:08:08Z
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@Ruth_Mottram I really have the impression around here that the discussion is now absorbed into the culture war."How dare they to force me to install a heat pump, this is theft!""Restrict the speed on highways? That is an attack on my freedom!"
(DIR) Post #AVXVjALzmtGTMPIJoO by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-11T08:18:35.173142Z
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@Ruth_Mottram As you’re a British citizen too, I assume you have a lot of first-hand experience with British residential construction standards and, in general, British residential market… This experience alone should be sufficient to answer all the above 🤷♂️
(DIR) Post #AVXfxlhKjrRYmEsQ1g by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T10:02:24Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram Do energy efficiency standards for new build homes vary across Europe?
(DIR) Post #AVXfxmOa942QwN6xRA by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-11T10:13:08.904253Z
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@chowderman In the EU they are largely harmonized (=same or similar) but UK is a different story: even before Brexit the building standards were quite lax, with most energy efficiency requirements being either generation older than in EU or optional.For a practical example, in the UK you can legally live in a house with a electrical installation from 1942 with aluminium cables, ancient fuses and fusebox etc. Majority of houses have ancient single-glazed windows, often in such a state that you can easily stick your finger outside through the gap between the window and the frame.If you buy new double-glazed windows, which are marketed as some kind of incredibly modern luxury here, you will get old generation ones, whereas in EU everyone would get triple-glazed with inert gas filling.These are just a few examples, but the residential sector in the UK is unbelievably backward, especially if you come from Eastern Europe, where everyone happily picks up the latest available tech on the market.As for the why, there are so many cultural, economic and historic reasons that you could probably write a whole book on this subject. It’s difficult to point out a single party that could be blamed for that. Ultimately, everyone is complicit and it’s practically impossible to fix it.@Ruth_Mottram
(DIR) Post #AVXmsh6f57nalgFe2S by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T10:29:30Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram I find it hard to believe that you have ever been to the UK. It isn’t THAT bad.However, yes, I have found comparative analysis which shows it in a poor light. The issue being existing housing stock rather than current building standards (better than Sweden?)https://unece.org/DAM/hlm/prgm/hmm/sustainable_housing/serbia_2015/presentations/6.2_D-Staniaszek.pdf
(DIR) Post #AVXmshlmcEgypDUU8O by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-11T11:30:44.834141Z
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@chowderman I have been living in the UK since 2013 and completed full refurbishment of one house and one apartment here in the meantime 😉 So I do have some first hand experience. As many Eastern Europeans here, I was buying many materials in Poland for the refurbishment. For example, for the price of a single double-glazed window with old hardware in the UK I got two triple-glazed with modern hardware (PL). The same applies also to kitchen and bathroom appliances - in the UK for the same price you get an older model, with poorer energy efficiency and noise rating (and one year warranty, when in EU you get two).The root cause is that the market in the UK is largely supplier-driven and competition is limited, and it’s not only construction market but mobile, broadband etc. In all of these sectors you get a worse service for much higher price than in EU.Additional specifics of the construction market in the UK is that people in vast majority don’t build houses on their land: in Poland you can easily buy a 500 m2 plot of land and hire a company to build a 100 m2 house there, and that’s 100% by the design and standards you chose.In the UK there’s simply no such plots for sale, so you can either buy an old house, demolish and rebuild it, which few people can afford, or you can buy a 10 ha land and build 200 houses there, which is only available to developers.And the problem with developer-built houses is that they are built for their profit, not yours, so they stick to the lowest required standards, quality of construction is poor and you essentially build a house designed and built by someone else.The latter issue is the same in the UK as in Poland, but competition in the latter against creates pressure on developers, while in the UK the attitude is that even the worst rathole will eventually sell, and that’s the only thing people are interested in.In total, it creates a situation where we are now: 60% households in the UK have poor energy efficiency and any effort to improve that is pushed back by a lobby of developers and rental property owners, who don’t care about it as it’s not them who pay the bills 🤷♂️@Ruth_Mottram
(DIR) Post #AVXqKrrYyys46EJaam by albertcardona@mathstodon.xyz
2023-05-11T08:51:39Z
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@Ruth_Mottram Having just refurbished a house in the UK to add the insulation that should have been there in the first place (instead, there was a coal-burning fireplace in each room), I felt first-hand its astronomical cost relative to salaries. Without a country-wide state-sponsored program, insulation of all homes won't happen at all anytime soon, no matter how urgent and clearly needed, not just to combat rising CO2 levels and costs of living, but also as a geopolitical move to gain independence from foreign oil and gas imports.The "Insulate Brittain" campaign exists, but it's toothless https://insulatebritain.com/Insulating homes can be done comparatively cheaply–relative to a country's annual expenditures–at a large scale, and the politicians that enact such policies will harvest enormous credit. It's a no-brainer: https://albert.rierol.net/tell/20221008_insulation.html#InsulateBrittain #InsulateHomes #Insulation #GlobalWarming #ClimateChange
(DIR) Post #AVXqPCC3KuVAJNxjjk by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T09:31:42Z
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@albertcardona @Ruth_Mottram If your house had a coal burning fire in each room, I have to assume that it is ancient and built before the current ecological, strategic and economic discourse.To say that it should have been built to modern standards (hundreds of?) years ago is perhaps asking for more foresight than can be reasonably be expected.If insulation is such a no-brainier, consumers would do it for themselves. You presumably are fortunately wealthy.
(DIR) Post #AVXqPCq6vyXoJchjAu by albertcardona@mathstodon.xyz
2023-05-11T09:42:09Z
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@chowderman @Ruth_Mottram My grandma's house in inland Catalonia is from 1808 and its walls are about 1-metre thick.Our UK house is far more recent than that, and the only reason it was built with coal-burning fireplaces and no insulation whatsoever, not even cavity walls, is because it's cheaper to build, sells for the same price, and the cost of living is passed on onto those who dwell in it, often renters. It's a business model that favours builders and landlords, passing costs onto renters and, of course, on to the environment, which, as an externality, does not even factor in for most people.And yes I accumulated enough savings by living abroad and earning a decent academic salary for some years to be able to subsidize my move to the UK, whose universities pay miserably compared to other countries and expects academics' lives to be subsidised through the institution of marriage or other means.
(DIR) Post #AVXsRqfe0th2KyCEzY by andiias@mstdn.social
2023-05-11T12:20:53Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @chowderman I'd like to add some nuance to this description and save Britain's reputation as a country that's leading the world in so many things that you can hardly count them - including in tradition - by saying that building standards, including environmental ones, have been tightened considerably in the past 25 years. But for such a "house proud" population it is indeed surprising that it puts up with most new builds being constructed by only a few big developers.
(DIR) Post #AVXsr4W9fTP6WRmkL2 by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T09:57:51Z
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@albertcardona @Ruth_Mottram You have avoided mentioning when exactly your UK house was originally built. Modern houses don’t rely on open fireplaces, they also have insulated cavity walls.All houses are built in a competitive market to building regulations applicable at the time. Those regulations result from societal concerns at the time.My mothers’ flat in Catalonia has atrocious insulation, no heating other than a fireplace and is from the 1980s.
(DIR) Post #AVXsr5Ch7JQoeNgie0 by vfrmedia@social.tchncs.de
2023-05-11T12:22:49Z
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@chowderman @albertcardona @Ruth_Mottram UK houses built as new builds in 1970s onwards (following Northern European practice) often have fairly good insulation (mine does) but a lot of UK housing stock is far older and much is rented, landlords pass the energy costs down to their tenants. There's also a shortage of skilled tradespeople and a heavily aging workforce due to private companies chasing short term profit and not investing in training/apprenticeships...
(DIR) Post #AVXsr5pKneL8aDlZs8 by vfrmedia@social.tchncs.de
2023-05-11T12:25:41Z
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@chowderman @albertcardona @Ruth_Mottram I can remember as a lad campaigns for energy saving, insulation etc in late 1970s/early 80s, the nationalised energy companies were also experimenting with solar and renewables; this all got forgotten about during the rush to privatisation of the 80s and short term rise in affluence of the average British citizen...
(DIR) Post #AVXyhPDoR22dZ2yoAi by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T13:15:38Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram Hint: In John Lewis you can get a 5 year warranty.You clearly haven’t tried dealing with utility companies in Spain if you think that the UK is bad.The reason 60% of UK houses have poor energy efficiency is because they were built in a different age.
(DIR) Post #AVXyhPogDxX3POEFdY by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-11T13:43:09.299843Z
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@chowderman Well, I have dealt with utility companies in 1980’s communist Poland, which I believe were much worse than anything in Spain - but we’re now entering the Four Yorkshiremen spiral 😂The reason 60% of UK houses have poor energy efficiency is because they were built in a different age.That’s half of the truth - the reason is that they were built at a different age, and remained there forever.Poland is full of large multi-apartment blocks that have been retrofitted with new windows and insulation already in 1990-2000’s, so it definitely is possible.Wall or loft insulation may be challenging, but replacing a window is a few hours job. Why doesn’t it happen in the UK? For many reasons:ownership structure of multi-apartment houses is such that you can’t just insulate your flat only (leasehold), as legally you only own the internal wallsyou need to engage all flat owners, and those who own for rent don’t give a shit - they neither pay the bills nor live there!with windows it’s easier - in your block everyone replaced their windows… but the own-for-rent flats of course! (and they’re still cooling down the whole building)even if all owners agree, the actual company doing insulation will be employed by the management company, who doesn’t give a shit eitherinstead of directly employing a few actual insulation specialists, you end up with a typical British chain of subcontractors that does the simplest job for months at the 10x of the actual cost of the job, which makes it truly a luxury experience…I have done loft insulation myself in my previous house (freehold), and has gone through all the rings of hell in the current one (leasehold flat), so I kind of know how it works :)@Ruth_Mottram
(DIR) Post #AVXyksSSByVD6iU2LI by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-05-11T13:41:54Z
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@chowderman @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram and apparently not been renovated.Many homes built in Germany built after Art Nouveau ended (Bauhaus and newer) received thermal insulation over the years.
(DIR) Post #AVXykvHDiCIbqkFbkW by Ruth_Mottram@fediscience.org
2023-05-11T12:13:44Z
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@kravietz yes indeed. That was exactly my thought. But I note it's also an issue in other countries in Europe in the article too. I was a little surprised by Germany in fact. But I guess they are very dependent on gas there and also inequality is pretty high compared eg to Scandinavia (though probably not compared to UK).
(DIR) Post #AVXykvvdHwcps59sjw by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-05-11T13:03:22Z
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@Ruth_Mottram @kravietz yes. Inequality and energy prices.Gas is the primary energy source for heating. And the high energy prices relate directly to inflation of food prices (e.g. heating for greenhouses and cooling for meat, dairy, and fruits).So many poor people save on the healthy stuff...
(DIR) Post #AVXykyjgqnr4Zuat2e by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T13:06:03Z
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@andiias @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram One reason that the UK relies on housebuilder led development is simply that one cannot buy a plot and build on it. One needs planning permission, and that is notoriously difficult to obtain. Financing is also an issue.It doesn’t help that population density is so much greater than, for example, Eastern Europe.https://www.worlddata.info/population-density.php
(DIR) Post #AVXykzMKX8lOVkfkGm by andiias@mstdn.social
2023-05-11T13:30:59Z
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@chowdermanI think your reasons are sound, but that doesn't stop other Europeans, let's say in Dutch or Germany, from building their own house. I'd guess that the reason is more cultural: Britain was able to provide a lot of their population with a - terraced - house when most other Europeans in the big cities lived in flats. So for a Brit it is normal that someone else builds their house. Europeans had this luxury later and needed to use their own initiative. @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram
(DIR) Post #AVY08UOPPxBhNHPkyO by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T13:46:10Z
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@t_mkdf @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram Retrofitting is increasingly fashionable, but one only has to look at an EPC certificate to see how poor the return on investment is. Find your (or anyone’s) EPC here:https://www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate
(DIR) Post #AVY08UtxWeQOx8Ax9M by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-11T13:59:16.619539Z
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@chowderman The point of my refurbishment, which also included insulation of all walls and replacing all windows was to have a nice, dry and warm flat. I did EPC re-assessment of my flat in 2022, moving from E to D, but that was secondary. On the way I learned that for example EPC only recognizes specific models of electric heaters as “high-retention storage”, rather than looking at their specifics. I could get C if I only purchased specific models and did a few more such tricks, but I don’t really care for now as I’m not selling it any time soon.What nobody seems to be taking into account however when talking of “return on investment” is comfort of living. I’ve lived in many “typical British flats” with drafty single-glazed sash windows and carpets fitted directly on concrete floor, and I find them disgusting. Which is why I tried to get a flat where I can live without winter clothes worn inside during winter, mould on walls, draft in bedrooms - and from that point of view my return on this investment has already paid back the day I moved in!@t_mkdf @Ruth_Mottram
(DIR) Post #AVY0AJUKvm4W8O3aOu by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-05-11T13:49:04Z
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@chowderman @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram high energy prices help with the return on investment...
(DIR) Post #AVY0ZlZtdC8gUanJ9E by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T13:52:47Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram Leasehold flat - you need the freeholder’s permission for double glazing, but I can’t see why they would refuse.Wall insulation - Getting the freeholder to pay to insulate the block? Good luck with that!You could internally insulate walls.
(DIR) Post #AVY0ZmCtIDKaRX2Rvc by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-11T14:04:15.525723Z
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@chowderman That’s precisely what I’m talking about. If you have a company owned by flat owners owning the freehold, it should be in the interest of everyone to improve its energy efficiency. That is, except those who own-for-rent, and they can block any investment in the commonly-owned infrastructure as they’re simply not interested.@Ruth_Mottram
(DIR) Post #AVY0bTsKQ7rmASEWau by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-05-11T14:01:17Z
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@chowderman @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram why wouldn't they insulate the block? It is quite normal that the owners upgrade the insulation of apartment blocks.
(DIR) Post #AVY0yXMBdrpxcsC31s by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-11T14:08:44.085067Z
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@t_mkdf Because there’s nothing legally forcing them to improve any aspect of the infrastructure 🤷♂️To be fair, some of the building regulations in the UK apply to rented flats only - for example, electrical installation needs to be upgraded in the rented flats, but from what I have seen in person, the enforcement of this is… quite relaxed. Recently the government pushed a energy efficiency standards regulation that kind of forced own-for-rent to upgrade, but when I checked it was worded in a way that would basically allow you not to upgrade anything if it would be “too expensive”.@chowderman @Ruth_Mottram
(DIR) Post #AVY10TGJpwRfVQN3Xk by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T14:08:24Z
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@t_mkdf @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram £The block is owned by one person/company with long leases (maybe 150 years) to occupants (leaseholders) of the flats.If you spend the money, you won’t get increased rental return (well, MAYBE in 150 year’s time).If government forces the issue (or presumably if all the leaseholders agree) you could improve the property and charge the leaseholders.
(DIR) Post #AVY1cKX8jpRlRFI86i by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-05-11T14:14:56Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @chowderman well. Sometimes German regulations seem to amount to something.How about increasing the value of the homes? Renovation raises the value of homes.And insulation of your own home not only increases the standard of living but directly it's value.
(DIR) Post #AVY2qn7BN0hc5ebqMa by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T14:22:09Z
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@t_mkdf @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram In the UK property purchasers are fixated on the number of bedrooms.Split one room into two - you increase the value of your property.Improve the insulation, you won’t get your investment back.(Clearly energy prices aren’t high enough to incentivise green behaviour)
(DIR) Post #AVY2sYsnFuYKWsiuCu by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T14:18:46Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @t_mkdf Yes, Buy To Let (BTL) landlords have a minimum EPC but nothing that costs more than £3500 or payback period of more than 7 years.They keep on talking about tightening this up, but it is the middle class who own all the BTLs, so don’t hold your breath.
(DIR) Post #AVY2sZQ7G1CwCEJW9A by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-05-11T14:21:28Z
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@chowderman @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram so most homes for rent are not owned by cooperations or cooperatives? But privately?
(DIR) Post #AVY2sa4Ar5FaCT3VaK by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T14:25:12Z
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@t_mkdf @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram Yes.Until recently the UK didn’t even have a legal structure designed for a block of flats to be community owned. (Share of freehold is a workaround) And historically you had local government landlords for rental to the working class. Now replaced by individual or small company landlords.
(DIR) Post #AVY33pmalJvS84CK5Q by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-11T14:32:06.443801Z
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@t_mkdf Then there’s a fundamental difference in land ownership between UK and EU: there’s no state-owned land, everything is private. In Poland (and I guess Germany too) you had plenty of former industrial state-owned land sold cheaply to residential cooperatives, because there was a pressure on the government to increase housing pool.In the UK you will have a massive, privately owned golf field in the centre of a town, that will be only sold to a developer at full market price. And because only a large for-profit developer can afford it, you will get them building as many houses as possible, as cheap as possible. And of course, local residents will try to block it because “that would lower their ROI” 🤷♂️ The social culture in the UK in this aspect is 100% dog-eat-dog. Sometimes I have an impression that in the UK everyone knows Adam Smith’s “Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations” by its interpretation of Ayn Rand, but never got to the same Smith’s “The Theory of Moral Sentiments” 😉@Ruth_Mottram @chowderman
(DIR) Post #AVY37AfJZs6HlRNvyy by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-05-11T14:32:18Z
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@chowderman @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram long live the "Bruchteilsgemeinschaft". But cooperatives are non-profit housing cooperations around here. You have to invest mostly only a small amount (like two to four months of rent). They offer mostly low rent and high standards. Whenever I needed to rent something I tried to get into one.
(DIR) Post #AVY3AIMvOQf4WaGzFg by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-11T14:33:23.258957Z
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@t_mkdf That would be illegal in the UK 😉@chowderman @Ruth_Mottram
(DIR) Post #AVY4brRtAr7z62IrRI by kevinteljeur@mastodon.online
2023-05-11T14:44:19Z
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@kravietz @chowderman @Ruth_Mottram @blabberlicious This is also the case in Ireland, where we - in spite of being very sparsely populated relative to other European countries - are in the grip of a housing crisis, because developers don’t want to build what people need. And I’m living in a house which probably barely meets the loose regulations of its time.
(DIR) Post #AVY4eGEvyMIYZ0O7Qu by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T14:41:19Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @t_mkdf I doubt it would be illegal, but certainly unusual.Traditionally the UK had building societies, where you saved money and then borrowed extra to buy a property.The closest would be a housing association, they are Not For Profit organisations providing rental and shared ownership properties (a proportion owned by the association and rented to the occupier, the rest owned by the occupier)
(DIR) Post #AVY4eH7WhNy1IJviWe by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T14:42:41Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @t_mkdf The problem with Housing Associations in the UK - the neighbours.
(DIR) Post #AVY4eHi2VdAr7Z0sRE by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-11T14:49:59.557642Z
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@chowdermanYou mean NIMBY?@Ruth_Mottram @t_mkdf
(DIR) Post #AVYABEyCDNCTx56WAK by Paulos_the_fog@qoto.org
2023-05-11T15:51:38Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @chowderman Yes, when I bought a derelict cottage in the UK and refurbished it, I ended up driving to France to buy the floor tiles as the same tiles in the UK cost 5 times as much as in a DIY supermarket in France! On the money I saved by driving to France, I paid for the ferry fare, the petrol, the tiles, the adhesive, a night in an hotel, a slap up meal and I still saved a load of money!
(DIR) Post #AVYAEXWHhfgILsccca by kevinteljeur@mastodon.online
2023-05-11T14:55:24Z
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@kravietz @chowderman @Ruth_Mottram @blabberlicious (Before the financial crisis in 2008-2010, developers told the local authorities what they would build, and to what low standard. The local authorities were for some reason powerless to intervene. They would self-certify. After the crisis, the tables turned, and the developers, if they wished to build, would have to meet the high specifications, including density. I know this because I live in a 'before and after' example by the same developer)
(DIR) Post #AVYAEYAhHQ0WNDWtc0 by blabberlicious@econtwitter.net
2023-05-11T15:09:28Z
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@kevinteljeur @kravietz @chowderman @Ruth_Mottram I’ve been visiting my wife’s family in Ireland for decades. I was struck by how closely they seemed to mirroring the property debacle of the UK. It started going really nuts running up to the crash. The whole of the coastline was peppered with empty platatial town houses (in places meant to be protected). Very little community housing. Much like the Gold Brick apartments that shroud the Thames. Hope your keeping toasty.
(DIR) Post #AVYAFvkn5UNtnm4QAi by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T14:59:58Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @t_mkdf No. NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard.Generally homeowners who don’t want anything built near their home because it will reduce the value of their home. The curse of the property owning democracy, no homes, factories, wind turbines or roads can be built.The problem with Housing Association neighbours - they can sometimes be “problem people” unable to find anyone else willing to rent to them.
(DIR) Post #AVYAtn9iTRY0idjiaG by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-11T15:59:53.235540Z
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@chowdermanOK, I now understand! But I guess that’s only a problem if the flats are built to be rented (or built for social housing)? In various cooperative housing schemes I’ve seen in Poland these were usually purchased by the final residents - i.e. young families or in general middle class looking for affordable housing. There are some legal and tax incentives to prevent takeover of cooperative housing by buy-to-let investors. @Ruth_Mottram @t_mkdf
(DIR) Post #AVYCPiy3gEk0x14dzE by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T16:07:14Z
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@Paulos_the_fog @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram ? There is something very wrong here.I mean, I don’t question the drive for a decent meal, but economic theory suggests that in a functioning market, there shouldn’t be such a price difference.Were these tiles something that might be “niche” in the UK but common in France?5 times the price is one hell of a markup!
(DIR) Post #AVYCPjcpEfLozS9CWu by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-11T16:16:53.287776Z
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@chowderman You could think it would be the same case for the modern windows I wrote about, or really anything else… except for the factor I also mentioned: supplier-driven market and oligopolies, both of which severely restrict market competition.Of course, before ordering my windows and appliances in Poland I also did research in local stores and asked British builders. They were generally surprised that I was asking questions about the brand, model and parameters of the solutions they recommended. As if it was rude of me to even want to know the details of a device I’m going to use for another 10 years rather than blindly rely on their expert recommendation 😂 That makes me think other customers rarely ask the questions, and just rely on the recommendation of the company they get a quote from. And that’s a classic supplier-driven market.@Paulos_the_fog @Ruth_Mottram
(DIR) Post #AVYCRRGqRqkgdyg8zA by vfrmedia@social.tchncs.de
2023-05-11T16:13:59Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @t_mkdf @chowderman my friends run a housing co-op in Ipswich. and they are as eco-friendly/vegan etc as you can get (so fully supportive with energy saving/renewable sources) - but they are struggling hard with affording day to day survival, let alone replacing sash windows and other early 20th century infrastructure in their house
(DIR) Post #AVYICbYCXqDFuL6gOe by andiias@mstdn.social
2023-05-11T16:55:19Z
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@chowderman It's not called "treasure island" for nothing 😂 @Paulos_the_fog @kravietz @Ruth_Mottram
(DIR) Post #AVYIETMrwI4b6mhGq0 by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-05-11T16:27:06Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @Paulos_the_fog @chowderman which is kind of a culture shock for anyone from the continent I suppose.
(DIR) Post #AVYIFhUcuLR7CquXTs by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T16:24:47Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @Paulos_the_fog Oh! Yeah, builders get the hump with me researching before speaking with them. All they want is an easy life, they don't have to live with the results.The double glazing is a mystery - I have seen units on the internet quite cheap - the issue being that they will only be the lowest spec.
(DIR) Post #AVYIFi8gVPTlD5eWv2 by chowderman@universeodon.com
2023-05-11T16:26:51Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @Paulos_the_fog Which raises another thought - why don’t Brits build their own homes? - having to deal with British trades people!
(DIR) Post #AVYIILL3jXEHMfhDKy by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-05-11T16:18:51Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @chowderman housing cooperatives have 150+ year tradition. They were part of the labour movement and a way to improve the housing situation of workers. They have still quite often a "for-us-by-us" spirit. Which greatly improves janitorial services and housing standards.And nowadays many people start their own cooperatives in order to get public funding for multigenerational houses.Friends of mine converted an old brick build school to a nice housing project.
(DIR) Post #AVZdBAJqb7xpMAVXge by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-12T08:51:29.379761Z
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@vfrmedia I understand the primary problem is the upfront investment? Well, lots of house insulation can be done on your own, like loft insulation. Materials are relatively cheap and it can be done incrementally, as much as today’s funds allow. Some cavities can be insulated using expansion foam or polystyrene beads.With windows it’s slightly more complex as it needs two people and a bit of experience with proper positioning and fixing the window, often also some carpentry when frame is rotten etc. But it’s still not a rocket science and you can absolutely buy even one window per month and do them incrementally. There’s plenty of sole traders on the market who can do the fitting at a reasonable price.I think the largest entry barrier here is that when you call windows or insulation companies they will quote you at a commercial rate for the whole job (all windows etc) which results in a rather mortifying numbers and excludes any possibility of an incremental improvement on the start.@Ruth_Mottram @t_mkdf @chowderman
(DIR) Post #AVZgpr9X3vwpeGmGQq by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-05-12T09:12:35Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @vfrmedia @chowderman it always helps to have some friend with carpentry skills though.When we were/are renovating our house we hire often someone with skill locally and try to get the stuff somewhere "cheap" (e.g. kitchen, tiles, insulation via friends and extended family in Eastern Europe).
(DIR) Post #AVZhSVeuuSiKHRtA00 by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-05-12T09:39:27.961002Z
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@t_mkdf Precisely that - in Poland it was quite a popular practice, especially in the villages, to self-build houses by neighbours, family etc. That would involve most of the masonry and all the support jobs, with a couple of professionals doing the actual bricklaying or carpentry, plus a certified construction inspector to supervise. Jobs that require specific skills such as plumbing and electric would be done by professionals. That was truly a community spirit with lots of food and beer afterwards :) I say “was” but I guess this is how it still works in Polish villages today, especially as many people in agriculture have highly seasonal jobs. The only limiting factor would be that the people who learned construction skills this way would then go to work in Western Europe for much better money :)@Ruth_Mottram @vfrmedia @chowderman
(DIR) Post #AVZt98xQHvM1ox4om8 by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-05-12T10:13:17Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @vfrmedia @chowderman in my perception it has a lot to do with class and community. If you have never experienced that type of community and/or are used to hire someone for it, these possibilities become alien.(though I strongly advise anyone above the age of 40 and a certain wealth to hire movers and not try to make a community event out of it...)
(DIR) Post #AVfnIT1bc5sHt9r5m4 by maiamaia@mastdn.social
2023-05-14T23:10:25Z
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@kravietz @Ruth_Mottram @chowderman also 1 uk politics about preserving house prices cos that's 99% of yr lifetime savings 2 actually huge land monopoly, only tiny % available to us not huge aristocratic estates or hedge funds 3 planning permission hard & expensive needs lawyers unlike germany poland usa so build yr own easy cheap & normal there 4 politics will kill anything reduces house prices & voters wd vote for that 5 (why economy dead: anyone w $ buys a house, all $ goes on rent or house).