Post AVVWInCuvytjgL7HPM by papalaeuft@lipsia.casa
(DIR) More posts by papalaeuft@lipsia.casa
(DIR) Post #AVVUtdNMFcHrzoRJQ0 by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T08:59:56Z
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Got a mail asking if I'd be willing to run a course at a Berlin University this semester. I'd have to prepare and give 14 lectures (90 minutes each) and grade final papers.Compensation offer: 1036 € before taxes.Like. What? It's basically me giving them money to work for them.
(DIR) Post #AVVUyPaivcrAgyyALY by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:00:48Z
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I have to admit, I am a bit insulted.
(DIR) Post #AVVV4sdlpyYqWYTlGi by minorhistory@chaos.social
2023-05-10T09:02:02Z
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@tante you just know that someone is going to accept those terms.
(DIR) Post #AVVV7yMj0Z0d9HyrM8 by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:02:15Z
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Oh yeah and it's a lot of topics: Basics of robotics, AI, VR and AR, Automation etc.So you want that tall an order but are not willing to pay. I wonder who they'll get for that money.
(DIR) Post #AVVVFyW6KVDvw0BLpg by besendorf@chaos.social
2023-05-10T09:04:00Z
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@tante Haha yeah that's the normal rate for Berlin universities. especially in the humanities field people do it to have it on their CV when they want to start a career in academia.
(DIR) Post #AVVVJEHCBzKFgGlIe0 by rotnroll666@mastodon.social
2023-05-10T09:04:04Z
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@tante Someone with an interest to push those topics in a 3rd party's direction who is compensated by said party.Why?
(DIR) Post #AVVVQGox89OLbDuPnE by janl@narrativ.es
2023-05-10T09:05:54Z
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@tante but think of the exposure!
(DIR) Post #AVVVUlcsXUViIZPDCy by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:06:43Z
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@janl Exposure to insultingly bad working conditions? Oh hell yeah.
(DIR) Post #AVVVXpNt1TPep5qvDc by papalaeuft@lipsia.casa
2023-05-10T09:06:54Z
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@tante Proper Hashtag: #IchBinHanna 37 EUR per 45' Unit0 EUR per graded paper0 EUR per answered student mail0 EUR for student questions after each lecture(Preparation time I do exclude so far, since I don't know how much "recycling" potential the course content might contain ;-) - But nevertheless best case you have to go through existing material for at least 30 Minutes, I guess)
(DIR) Post #AVVVaSC9hDsflucM40 by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:07:42Z
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@papalaeuft In this case there is no recycling, I would basically start from scratch.
(DIR) Post #AVVVelj11foRV92rqq by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:08:32Z
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@besendorf Luckily I don't have to appease the lords and gods of academia.
(DIR) Post #AVVViPHWPc6b3Jv6NE by janl@narrativ.es
2023-05-10T09:08:35Z
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@tante oh I was thinking covid et.al.
(DIR) Post #AVVVlkIOjqnn5yvDyi by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:09:18Z
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@janl Oh right! There might be some bonus long-covid in there as well!
(DIR) Post #AVVVoivQI5LdiIazLs by alper@rls.social
2023-05-10T09:09:52Z
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@tante €50/hour no prep doesn't seem so badLike what are you going to cover in the topic anyway? You're not going to teach them robotics. What kind of course is it? Handwaving around robotics?
(DIR) Post #AVVVshPjqnlaBYffl2 by kiview@ruhr.social
2023-05-10T09:10:08Z
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@tante This university?https://code.berlin/en/
(DIR) Post #AVVVun63h5GgOASn8C by falko@d-64.social
2023-05-10T09:10:36Z
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@tante We could crowdfund you doing this (I would at least). :) It would be great to make the lecture content publicly available in this case.
(DIR) Post #AVVVwe6k5N975afSfA by UJF@mastodon.social
2023-05-10T09:10:47Z
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@tante Merken die nicht mal, dass du dich verarscht fühlen musst?
(DIR) Post #AVVW4YMHLUitZfhmuO by signifikanten@lediver.se
2023-05-10T09:13:10Z
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@tante prompt engeneirs
(DIR) Post #AVVWFIuL8Bh6qAlOSm by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:15:05Z
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@alper No, it's basically giving people a general understanding of these terms and technologies. It's not a technical course of developers or something. The students are more management.And even 50 Bucks an hour would be an insult. Preparing a 90 minute lecture takes at least 3 hours if you are familiar with the topic. Let's just round ever session up to 5 hours of actual work (excluding grading final papers, questions etc). Even your fictional 100€ (in reality it's not even 80) would mean you get 20 EUR/hour for a very complex job. Given those conditions you'll probably get some half-assed course prepared which is also insulting to the students IMO.
(DIR) Post #AVVWInCuvytjgL7HPM by papalaeuft@lipsia.casa
2023-05-10T09:15:09Z
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@tante Wow! Even if were woud be a future potential... just WOW in a negative sense :-/ Even EU funded projects allow way better compensation for quest lecturers - e.g. see here at page 18 - maybe thet halps if you are still motivated to negotiate:https://www.sab.sachsen.de/documents/60761/118073/2022-06-20+Anlage_6_FFAK_2021-2027+vom+20.06.2022.pdf/a3250f2b-f607-7bf3-ab57-c0ac93b78b52?t=1663059302998&download=true
(DIR) Post #AVVWMgIaYtdHPiciCu by ctietze@mastodon.social
2023-05-10T09:15:13Z
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@tante Oof, 74 EUR per lecture? That's not even 50 EUR/h (why don't they round up to 75 at the very least? Penny pinchers!). It's still better than working as a cashier at that point -- but who knows how many students are allowed and how many papers need to be graded and how long that takes
(DIR) Post #AVVWRCpDZW6VS02iwK by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:17:18Z
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@kiview Nope. This one https://www.hs-fresenius.de/
(DIR) Post #AVVWVh5oykZGTzwuPo by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:17:50Z
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Bonus fact: The University is private and the degree costs 750€ per month.
(DIR) Post #AVVWfxcQOIY0dI5vX6 by Illuminatus@mstdn.social
2023-05-10T09:19:51Z
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@tante 1036€ brutto/pro Monat? I mean <even> that would be peasant wages, but fuck, you'd make more working retail or hospitality without the responsibility and the stress.
(DIR) Post #AVVWifMyhI0wu29xmS by LupinoArts@mstdn.social
2023-05-10T09:19:54Z
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@tante 1.5hrs per week, plus, say, 3.5hrs preparation makes 5hrs/week for 1k€/month… that doesn't sound too bad, imo…
(DIR) Post #AVVWlI9TTd43lM5yrY by cwillmes@mastodon.social
2023-05-10T09:19:56Z
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@tante Es werden natürlich nur die Stunden, wo man tatsächlich Unterricht gibt bezahlt. Wo kämen wir denn da hin!? Vorbereitung und so braucht man doch wohl nicht?! Und wenn man Vorbereitung nötig hat, investiert man ja in sich selbst! x^) Aber hey, dafür darfst du dich immerhin Dozent schimpfen! Echt komisch dass die keine Leute mehr für sowas finden? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Eigentlich nur machbar/tragbar für Wissenschaftler:innen die solche Lehraufträge on Top (zu ihrem Gehalt) machen.
(DIR) Post #AVVWoY6yaz5i86Tq0u by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:21:13Z
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@LupinoArts It's not 1k a month. It's 1K over 3 months.
(DIR) Post #AVVWrcn3eleBVdd7z6 by LupinoArts@mstdn.social
2023-05-10T09:21:49Z
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@tante oh… okay… never mind…
(DIR) Post #AVVX2esMF8J7A9N1Cy by cwillmes@mastodon.social
2023-05-10T09:24:00Z
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@tante meistens Doktorand:innen die in dem Bereich Forschen und sich ihr Teilzeitgehalt aufbessern wollen/müssen. Pure Ausbeutung, leider "Standard" an deutschen Unis...
(DIR) Post #AVVXcXbyjEGH3for5M by karengregory@mastodon.scot
2023-05-10T09:30:30Z
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@tante wow, this really stinks.
(DIR) Post #AVVXg5r9rb7k8Sc5I0 by larsmb@mastodon.online
2023-05-10T09:30:59Z
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@tante But the EXPOSURE
(DIR) Post #AVVXjqUAxABVceeWJc by s_bergmann@chaos.social
2023-05-10T09:31:09Z
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@tante Maybe I am weird, but to me „university“ and „private“ are mutually exclusive.
(DIR) Post #AVVXn9Uck1LnRPRGyW by flowdie@hci.social
2023-05-10T09:31:09Z
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@tante welcome to german academia 😐 sounds like standard conditions of a "Lehrauftrag" https://www.academics.de/ratgeber/was-ist-ein-lehrauftrag These are of course hilarious conditions but often the single source of income for young academics 😞
(DIR) Post #AVVXzhyeM5dtrpTEn2 by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:34:43Z
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@s_bergmann same
(DIR) Post #AVVYIdwRaFRqqxT3LM by playinprogress@assemblag.es
2023-05-10T09:38:05Z
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@tante It's a grift that those who are aiming for an academic career in DE are often forced to play along with, to "prove" their abilities as academic teachers, which is often a hoop to jump through on the path to next higher qualification. You know about "Privatdozenten" right? Slightly different situation, but part of the same system.
(DIR) Post #AVVYORDtmdip93OYtM by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:39:09Z
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@playinprogress Yeah. I would have just thought when the university finds nobody and goes outside of their weird little circles they realize that this offer is really insulting.
(DIR) Post #AVVYSaAEU2Ui26elMG by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:39:57Z
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@playinprogress (It is insulting within Academia as well but I have no business fixing that shit show / my solutions would make many people with titles very unhappy ;))
(DIR) Post #AVVYV9dpYBe2dwj94C by papalaeuft@lipsia.casa
2023-05-10T09:40:00Z
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@tante Now I _do_ have to cite Herbert Grönemeyer (in German): "Lache, wenn es nicht zum Weinen reicht!"
(DIR) Post #AVVYYgruTA26Z1zyuu by can@mstdn.social
2023-05-10T09:40:59Z
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@tante I'm giving one guest lecture at ZHAW in Zurich this semester (90 min) and they're paying me ~ € 400. Still not that much considering the prep work going into it, but still more like it.
(DIR) Post #AVVYcK6D4EA96XQ4wa by JanWe@mastodontech.de
2023-05-10T09:41:38Z
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@tante @alper It explains or foreshadows the superficial or lacking understanding of manager degree people for those topics.At this salary they seem to expect to hire someone just prompting ChatGPT and even using AI to grade papers automatically.
(DIR) Post #AVVYgsJPo2HkN9lbg8 by drdelle@mastodon.social
2023-05-10T09:42:33Z
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@tante All the PDs that have to teach to keep the title. Who else would do that?
(DIR) Post #AVVYjw1ETsdSjmiliS by playinprogress@assemblag.es
2023-05-10T09:42:54Z
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@tante ok I am saving us both the c&p of Privatdozentenfoo because unnecessary and maddening. This is all so insane.And such horrible gatekeeping - it really means only rich people can afford to work at universities in these roles.
(DIR) Post #AVVZ0fI5vdI5mNaNTE by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:46:04Z
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@can I know that Universities can't pay competitively. That's fine. I actually enjoy giving lectures and talks so I do sometimes do them for way less than my normal rate. But there are limits to it.
(DIR) Post #AVVZCjEl5B4RUdmH7Q by lscherff@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:48:16Z
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@tante wait until you find out that Lehraufträge can even legally be done without any compensation. Most (public) university contracts have an extra check-box for that 🙃
(DIR) Post #AVVZGnZ0wD0W4RC0g4 by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T09:48:27Z
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@playinprogress Yeah. That or it's your job to "teach" things with a certain spin. Every time I have to interact with academia as a system my respect for it dwindles.
(DIR) Post #AVVZcHgAAIB1YKmWkS by bleistifterin@fnordon.de
2023-05-10T09:52:54Z
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@tante 16 years ago at a public university ny budget allowed me to pay 36€/h for PDs, 24€/hour for PhDs. Travelling costs were capped at 300€/semester(!). Meanwhile VIP Profs with two jobs and a pension were flown in and received 3000€+ for a lecture and a workshop while complaining that I did not cover their taxi fee and expecting me, the grad student charged to usher them around, to pay for their coffee.Bleibt alles gleich
(DIR) Post #AVVbRYJeAY6rsFGDBo by elmyra@masto.ai
2023-05-10T10:13:21Z
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@tante probably a struggling PhD student or postdoc.
(DIR) Post #AVVbUqKPejw4bhBhho by elmyra@masto.ai
2023-05-10T10:13:55Z
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@tante oh that's not a bit insulting, that's extremely insulting
(DIR) Post #AVVeDTI6M3GU67Vz7Y by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T10:44:26Z
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@Illuminatus it's not a month. Flat fee, thing goes on over 3 months
(DIR) Post #AVVeGUcRsBeX5NTNIW by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T10:44:53Z
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@UJF ich habe denen das mal direkt als Feedback gegeben.
(DIR) Post #AVVePn2ElwWwo9y6Sm by Illuminatus@mstdn.social
2023-05-10T10:46:37Z
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@tante I would send them a reply email so full of profanity, that whoever read it would shit themself on the spot. That is a fucking insult.
(DIR) Post #AVVhRg0w9A7dTTx3Ds by creohn@chaos.social
2023-05-10T11:20:30Z
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@tante 1036€ pro Vorlesung?
(DIR) Post #AVVjJwUbCEiUAnGWB6 by tante@tldr.nettime.org
2023-05-10T11:41:37Z
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@creohn Guess again
(DIR) Post #AVVkUyqorswucwUCSO by BrKloeckner@piaille.fr
2023-05-10T11:54:47Z
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@tante Whooo. They managed to be even more rapacious than French universities. We would pay you a whopping 1350€ for such a course.
(DIR) Post #AVVseTyxI8jNQ0KjrM by alper@rls.social
2023-05-10T13:26:08Z
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@tante Any real prep is out of the question, but what you could do is crowdsource the lectures with the students and then spend 90 minutes delving into the topics running them through a critical marxist perspective.I think that's the most value that they would get out of something like this.
(DIR) Post #AVW0qXYsbmcbd0OhVo by fl0_id@mastodon.social
2023-05-10T14:56:17Z
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@tante lol what tf. At an also private Uni on Spain I got a bit more than half of that for 2 1/2 sessions, and that was already not much.
(DIR) Post #AVXOJ5SmeGdez65Sd6 by riotnrrd@mastodon.social
2023-05-11T06:55:35Z
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@tante The answer is that they’ll get someone who has a day job in those fields and can actually benefit from the exposure (because they’re not trying to live off it). The teacher gets kudos at work and a cool entry on LinkedIn that helps them stand out from their peers; their employer gets their brand out there and an opportunity to shape the thinking of students. The money is a nice extra, and may even end up getting donated instead.