Post AVSAiSg2cet2VPP9GK by louis@emacs.ch
(DIR) More posts by louis@emacs.ch
(DIR) Post #AVS67hTsDhrTt4vdfU by fdroidorg@floss.social
2023-05-08T17:37:35Z
2 likes, 25 repeats
We regret to inform you that Mastodon has decided to leave the F-Droid Reproducible Builds project.Going forward, Mastodon updates on F-Droid will be maintained by the F-Droid team and signed with an unique per-app key generated by F-Droid.If you installed Mastodon through F-Droid, please uninstall and reinstall it to keep receiving updates.
(DIR) Post #AVS7FJIQ7dBx9OlR1k by SylvieLorxu@chaos.social
2023-05-08T17:48:21Z
0 likes, 7 repeats
@fdroidorg For context: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon-android/issues/539tl;dr: Mastodon added an in-app updater that would move users from the F-Droid version to the GitHub version and was unwilling to provide an .apk file for a version with the updater either disabled or with a note added explaining users that if they used it they would start getting their updates from them directly instead of from F-Droid. And without an .apk file from the developers to compare to, reproducible builds are simply not possible.
(DIR) Post #AVSAiRqzgS3Nx5WNhA by jele@norden.social
2023-05-08T17:54:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fdroidorg What a mess. Whats wrong with the developers there?
(DIR) Post #AVSAiSg2cet2VPP9GK by louis@emacs.ch
2023-05-08T18:29:50Z
1 likes, 5 repeats
@jele @fdroidorg They start to extract value out of the Mastodon brand and begin to isolate from the Fediverse.Unfortunately, thanks to the media, the public perception has come to equate "Mastodon" with the Fediverse. Eugen, as CEO of Mastodon Corporation, has understood this very well and is now implementing his strategy of going it alone. Just yesterday I read on the Discord server how he talked about the fact that instances that do not belong to the super big ones should better be operated in isolation. Heard correctly!
(DIR) Post #AVSBjsF39vcc2L175c by twizzay@thisis.mylegendary.quest
2023-05-08T18:41:21.923471Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fdroidorg What the heck mastodon
(DIR) Post #AVSEgo6MOZtABqBKD2 by waltercool@pl.slash.cl
2023-05-08T19:14:24.065584Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fdroidorg Or... use Husky, which is fully compatible with Mastodon and Pleroma instances.https://f-droid.org/en/packages/su.xash.husky/
(DIR) Post #AVSFRzmgmEjQ29TvmK by waltercool@pl.slash.cl
2023-05-08T19:22:55.321421Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@fdroidorg Also, friendly reminder, F-Droid DOES censorship.They are not different than Google or Apple about this topic.
(DIR) Post #AVSI3Je06KnMFcLDrU by meowski@fluf.club
2023-05-08T19:52:02.438476Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fdroidorg did they provide any reasoning for this decision?
(DIR) Post #AVSKg4WSSNeoYPQBaS by art@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-05-08T20:21:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fdroidorg disappointing.
(DIR) Post #AVSMcwcFb35v4Vld2m by bookstardust@bildung.social
2023-05-08T20:43:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis @jele @fdroidorg I would be very happy about a source, because i would not give much about hearsay.
(DIR) Post #AVSMijiMTcIInQO4uW by louis@emacs.ch
2023-05-08T20:44:22Z
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@bookstardust Have a look at my article with the source links:https://write.as/louis77/mastodons-future-depends-on-instance-diversity-heres-why
(DIR) Post #AVSMpmvavZXMn0wJhw by stinerman@mastodon.social
2023-05-08T20:45:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis @jele @fdroidorg i am on the Discord server and must have missed that. What channel and time is the message on?
(DIR) Post #AVSMzhgdGlzVQhfYGm by louis@emacs.ch
2023-05-08T20:47:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stinerman https://discord.com/channels/231908446830723072/1061480803344855140/1084582629992579072
(DIR) Post #AVSNWroscGEAPfLAZM by bookstardust@bildung.social
2023-05-08T20:53:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis Well, sadly the link lead to nowhere, so i recommend adding a screenshot.Secondly, i cannot read out of that sentence, what you read into it. i have no clue about the F-droid issue, i hope Mastodon as cooperation could explain that at some point. However, all he said was that there is a clash between old and new users. That decentralisation helps closing communities and Twitter users do have different expectations on social media.
(DIR) Post #AVSNmWQJvyX8ggJlb6 by stinerman@mastodon.social
2023-05-08T20:56:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis i find that to be a poor summarization of what he said. He said that the mid-sized instances are generally not good for random people who want a "Twitter" experience. They are good for "whatever community wants to use them to be isolated amongst themselves."I've been disappointed with Eugen on several issues, but he didn't say anything about how non-large instances should be isolated from others.
(DIR) Post #AVSOAM9ll3UnnLwPzs by louis@emacs.ch
2023-05-08T21:00:32Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@bookstardust Here is a screenshot of this particular message. But it is only one of many such statements recently made bei Eugen and the direction they take, regarding the iOS onboarding or the withdrawal from reproducible build on F-Droid, is consistent with that.He made that very clear in this interview:"[...], so for that reason, we have historically been trying to promote a healthy distribution of people across these different servers. However, I’ve learned over the years that there is no replacement for having a default, right? I’m sure you realize."https://www.theverge.com/23658648/mastodon-ceo-twitter-interview-elon-musk-twitter
(DIR) Post #AVSOiGaMydkGMYYLI0 by bookstardust@bildung.social
2023-05-08T21:06:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis 1. We are only talking about the official Mastodon app (which no one uses)2. we are only talking about new users, trying to onboard to the mastodon. 3. it is VERY complicated, for users with no technical background who are trained to make an account on whatever is currently "in". (Example: you use Tiktok, you go get app, you make account, you in).Like how did you learn which browser to use or which Email account? Was it conscious choice? Is he not right that experience said to simplyfy
(DIR) Post #AVSQCXbaMZ2Hn27axU by louis@emacs.ch
2023-05-08T21:23:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bookstardust Firstly, it's not accurate to say that "no one uses" the official Mastodon app. In fact, new users prefer to use the official app because it is "official" and carries the Mastodon brand. You yourself say: "you go get app, you make account, you in". That's exactly the behavior Mastodon Corporation is counting on to lock in new users to mastodon.social. And moving accounts between server is still difficult and you loose all your content.Secondly, while Mastodon onboarding may have a steeper learning curve compared to some social media platforms, I disagree that it's "VERY complicated." Freedom often comes with the burden of choice and Mastodon got successful despite users having to choose an instance in the first place. You made your way to the Fediverse, didn't you?Moreover, who said that Mastodon must compete with Twitter or Tiktok in the first place? That is a narrative that was formed by Eugen himself. Who wants Mastodon to be a copy of one of the big social media platforms. Finally, while it's true that some users may be hesitant to try a new platform, I don't think that's a reason to simplify Mastodon. Rather, I believe that offering users more choice and diversity in social media options is actually a good thing. We can teach the public that participation in social media is not synonymous with subservience to a single U.S. tech company.
(DIR) Post #AVSU63Ou9KBIBvLu6a by shakil_tcs@mstdn.starnix.network
2023-05-08T22:07:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@waltercool Your evidence?
(DIR) Post #AVSZoRdpspVDsxK4rA by rebeccafinn@topspicy.social
2023-05-08T21:39:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@art @fdroidorg I like tusky better, though
(DIR) Post #AVSpdDqQREcfAyskkK by Gargron@mastodon.social
2023-05-09T01:57:12Z
0 likes, 3 repeats
@fdroidorg We did not leave the F-Droid Reproducible Builds project, because we never entered it in the first place. It was not an active decision by us; F-Droid manages their own app repository and decides which apps go in and how they are built. Our development process results in two artifacts, a AAB build for the Play Store, and an APK build that is published on GitHub, both of which are made from the same 100% open-source, GPL code.
(DIR) Post #AVSpdHH7gQlDoeOcHA by Gargron@mastodon.social
2023-05-09T01:58:34Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
@fdroidorg F-Droid representatives asked us to start maintaining yet another build specifically for them; this was not communicated to us as an advance requirement for being on the F-Droid repository. Since the majority of our users are not on F-Droid, and our means are limited, we did not wish to spend engineer time on this, but F-Droid maintainers can maintain such a build on their own.
(DIR) Post #AVSq7EEVYh494ISFW4 by jele@norden.social
2023-05-09T02:13:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis I personally wouldnt miss anything If his instance was isolatedBut that ist unsocial and bad behaviour
(DIR) Post #AVTAe9S9fPBP8xQs6K by eighthave@social.librem.one
2023-05-09T06:03:49Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@waltercool @fdroidorg If F-Droid does censorship, then we're pretty terrible at it, since we give developers and users all the tools to easily circumvent it. https://f-droid.org/2022/11/23/why-curation-and-decentralization-is-better-than-millions-of-apps.html
(DIR) Post #AVTBCa9ssq9DoYIvXE by raracool@mastodon.ie
2023-05-08T22:16:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fdroidorg to the people that will see this post, this is not inherently bad. This is simply Mastodon moving from app updates in F-Droid to an in-app updater, which is against F-Droid’s inclusion policy.It’s a very minor difference of opinion, not an indication that Mastodon will become closed source. This has never been so much as implied by the Mastodon team.
(DIR) Post #AVTBCcDVEMEMCM0qS8 by eighthave@social.librem.one
2023-05-09T06:10:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@raracool @fdroidorg F-Droid allows in-app updaters that respect #UserFreedom. In this case, that means that the in-app updater needs to communicate to the user that updates are coming from a different channel. People trust F-Droid to review apps, we would be failing them if we let apps steer users away from that review without them even realizing its happening.
(DIR) Post #AVTBLa9UHDNsOuPUO0 by eighthave@social.librem.one
2023-05-09T06:11:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@raracool @fdroidorg F-Droid allows in-app updaters that respect #UserFreedom. In this case, that means that the in-app updater needs to communicate to the user if it is a different channel then user installed from, and give them the option to not use the in-app updater. People trust F-Droid to review apps, we would be failing them if we let apps steer users away from that review without them even realizing its happening.
(DIR) Post #AVTBPfiJXYZQoBeNIO by niclas@angrytoday.com
2023-05-09T06:12:24Z
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@louis The herd of infantile masses can not have thinkers among them. Some of the sheeple might realize their captivity...If you can think and value freedom; Leave the "super big ones", set up your own instance if you have to. @jele @fdroidorg
(DIR) Post #AVTTVdPtxTUEu2hZg0 by bookstardust@bildung.social
2023-05-09T07:52:39Z
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@louis I do understand your sentiment, but I think you too know the internal struggle between wanting healthy growth from new users and integrating them into a complex new social media enviroment.I am not sure why you would use the words "locked in". Moving servers is the strong point in the fediverse.And I think Gargon had the same argument we had thousands of times. And that's why he arrives at this conclusion he came to.
(DIR) Post #AVTTVrr0HVU5g9UPrc by bookstardust@bildung.social
2023-05-09T08:07:43Z
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@louis let's say we do not compromise about the onboarding for the sake of fediverse protection. It means people will not come. You will opt-out of the competition and the fediverse will stay a social media app for minority group of users. "Small group isolated amongst themselves"As a person in charge of a company who managed to place the Fediverse into the competition (by luck). I can understand his focus and his frustration
(DIR) Post #AVTUDc4aJdlrTchYYK by LasseGismo@climatejustice.social
2023-05-09T08:08:00Z
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@louisThe people (I deliberately don't say Fedizens) are themselves to blame - damn free of charge mentality.Death is for nothing and it costs life. @jele @fdroidorg
(DIR) Post #AVTYY7OhxeDwEj9BbM by LasseGismo@climatejustice.social
2023-05-09T07:41:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis Better to title "The Fediverses future..." @bookstardust
(DIR) Post #AVU72JlPwdyVidLD3A by Natureshadow@floss.social
2023-05-09T16:58:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis @jele @fdroidorg A free and open community project having talks about the communitu on a closed and exclusive platform. That's already enough.
(DIR) Post #AVVNjR2YYlrVAAtpU8 by dcc@annihilation.social
2023-05-10T07:39:49.695317Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis @bookstardust the problem atm is really the maso firewall. Big instance's want to make the decision of who they want to fed with when it should be the users.
(DIR) Post #AVXr7iyMpD5miTnIEC by iThreepwood@mastodon.social
2023-05-09T05:45:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fdroidorg Better use .apk from trusted developer's own repos with their own signing keys, which F-Droid builds never have. In other words, F-Droid builds are crap.
(DIR) Post #AVXr7jt5QKSjYOKadU by jr@social.anoxinon.de
2023-05-09T08:53:48Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@iThreepwood @fdroidorg this whole drama actually went down exactly because F-Droid distributed the developer signed version at the beginning, but for this to work, F-Droid needs a reference APK that complies with F-Droid policy, which then in turn became to much work for the Mastodon team to upload, so they asked to get switched to the F-Droid owned signing key.In other words: F-Droid tries their best, but sometimes upstream developers won't/can't cooperate
(DIR) Post #AVYSeXLmknmSWyG0Jc by SylvieLorxu@chaos.social
2023-05-09T06:24:48Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Gargron @fdroidorg That is incorrect and the GitHub issue shows it. The F-Droid team asked for .apk files of the Google Play build as it was compliant with F-Droid policy. Not a new flavor.Mastodon made a change to the version they provided to F-Droid (the GitHub version) that broke policy. F-Droid even went out of their way to tweak policy in Mastodon's favour to not require complete removal of the in-app updater, just a good explanation.
(DIR) Post #AVYSeZBZvinwDtUsgS by SylvieLorxu@chaos.social
2023-05-09T06:25:19Z
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@Gargron @fdroidorg F-Droid was too eager to help make Mastodon on F-Droid as secure as possible by pushing for Reproducible Builds during inclusion, yes, that was mentioned. It was unfortunate there was apparent miscommunication in that Reproducible Builds require developers to provide an .apk compliant with policy (however, not anything weird, most "app stores" want you to upload build files).
(DIR) Post #AVYSearRhXt9Q25pa4 by SylvieLorxu@chaos.social
2023-05-09T06:25:27Z
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@Gargron @fdroidorg But it was Mastodon who insisted that providing an .apk file compliant with F-Droid policy, despite already having a compliant flavor, was too much work. And that made Reproducible Builds a technical impossibility.
(DIR) Post #AVgTsWp5AM1eASsLI0 by louis@emacs.ch
2023-05-15T16:10:30Z
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@j12i You mean the Discord link? Yes, that is unfortunate. Mastodon gGmbH requires you to pay to get access to this Discord server.