Post AVQp9GynpSGxtbbF32 by skotchygut@social.tummyacid.net
(DIR) More posts by skotchygut@social.tummyacid.net
(DIR) Post #AVOf8LWS49hFpzL2C8 by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-05-07T01:13:20Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
Yes, at calckey.social, we blocked mastodonapp.uk. This was not an arbitrary decision. We received multiple reports of transphobia from mastodonapp.uk, with no action being taken from their mods. For the safety of our users, many who are transgender, we had to initiate defederation. This was not a choice we made lightly, but our community’s safety comes first. @fediversenews
(DIR) Post #AVOf8M5Xxfllapl3tg by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-07T01:51:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@atomicpoet @fediversenewstransphobic posts or comments/harassment?
(DIR) Post #AVPUo9rQuQVzUiqZUG by constantine@sfba.social
2023-05-07T02:38:42Z
5 likes, 3 repeats
@atomicpoet @fediversenews The tendency to defederation and block whole instances is the biggest threat to the Fediverse and ActivePub. Much much bigger threat than Bluesky or decentralization. It turns the Fediverse network into a patchwork quilt, where most people don’t understand why they don’t see each other.You’re playing with fire.
(DIR) Post #AVPUoAk1dSBSE2OAa0 by skotchygut@social.tummyacid.net
2023-05-07T02:42:11.145720Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@constantine @atomicpoet @fediversenews it is required functionality. How would you handle it?
(DIR) Post #AVPUoBzeyoHg6oiAaW by constantine@sfba.social
2023-05-07T03:22:14Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@skotchygut @atomicpoet @fediversenews It’s hard because it’s the architectural flaw of ActivePub. But I’ll try: Technical side.1. There should be automatic notification of users when the major instance is blocked.2. There should be a list of all blocked instances by your server for easy access.3. You should be able to see accounts on blocked instances by demand through the relays. 4. Much easier method of moving to another instance with a nomad identity.5. Self-hosting should be as simple as installing an app in AppStore.Communication.All major fediverse actors should understand the responsibility for the whole network, not just their instance. Every time when you block the entire (major) server, you damage the network. Hence such a decision shouldn’t be rushed and should be better conducted through some elaborate discussion not just between two instances but also with other major server owners. Defederation should be only the last resort.
(DIR) Post #AVPUoCcIf9C02en1oe by skotchygut@social.tummyacid.net
2023-05-07T05:18:11.999140Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@constantine @atomicpoet @fediversenews What you call a flaw I call a necessary feature. Much of what you suggest perhaps sounds good but will be used to coordinate harassment by malicious instances. Block notifications provide a signal to harassment campaigns that it is time to change tactics. That is a reality of this whole network that you speak of. Admins have no responsibility to users of other instances and it’s asking too much of them. It’s already a very hard job and the only users they should be concerned about is their own.I particularly take issue with your distinction of major instances. It does not matter how large an instance is. The rules should be the same for all.There exists implicit trust between users and moderators. If that trust is broken the users have to duty to move to another instance. That is how the incentives remain aligned. De-federation is how admins of different servers protect their communities.
(DIR) Post #AVPUoDFIKANtzb2Ab2 by constantine@sfba.social
2023-05-07T11:28:06Z
2 likes, 4 repeats
@skotchygut @fediversenews It’s hard to fight the Big Social and win most people's hearts if we believe we live in a besieged fortress.Most people don’t organize harassment campaigns, and most people don’t participate in them. When such events happen, Fediverse moderators already have all the instruments to tackle the issue without defideration. So I believe it’s not the real problem we’re talking about.The real one is there are two groups of people in Fediverse. One group wants to beat the Big Social and free the Internet from corporate control. Hence these people care about mass adoption and the network's health as a whole.The second group doesn’t care about any of this staff. In fact, they don’t want mass adoption, and they don’t care about crumbling of the network. They only wish to preserve their one tiny cozy walled garden.This is a real problem we are talking about.
(DIR) Post #AVPa5n4YsDe5nkDNbM by ArtBear@mastodonapp.uk
2023-05-07T01:23:26Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@atomicpoet @fediversenews I wish when an instance blocks your instance, every user on the blocked instance would get a DM informing them.As a mastodonapp.uk user for the last 5 months I had zero idea that:'we had a slight moderation problem it was resolved' which I saw in Novemberperhaps more likely translates to:'There are ongoing moderation issues, lots of instances have now blocked your instance.'As a user, you can't be expected to search the block lists of other servers.
(DIR) Post #AVPa5ntxn6lKNAGQim by the_roamer@mastodonapp.uk
2023-05-07T08:18:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ArtBear @atomicpoet @fediversenews But the problem *was* resolved. All main Mastodon servers that had blocked mastodonapp.uk in November later removed their blocks. If you look at the Oliphant blocking lists, currently mastodonapp.uk is not on them, not even on the broadest Tier-3 one.
(DIR) Post #AVPa5oZ5KDeiQhVGoi by ArtBear@mastodonapp.uk
2023-05-07T10:43:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@the_roamer @atomicpoet @fediversenews Arrived Fediverse early nov22.New cub🐻, bouncing around sayingWhat does this do? &Can we be friends?Lots of natives patient & friendly w/ meLate Nov/early Dec half? my social graph disappeared. Sad, as I assumed it was something I'd done.At time so light it didn't connect toots? by admin: Server had a moderation issue but had been resolved.This weekend I find Mastodonapp.uk is blocked still by many servers w/ incidents upto 3 weeks ago.
(DIR) Post #AVPa5p7TGNA49LajPk by the_roamer@mastodonapp.uk
2023-05-07T12:10:24Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ArtBear @atomicpoet @fediversenews "Still blocked by many servers": not many, one. The main servers that blocked at the time have all re-federated. TMK, calckey.social is the only server that didn't. The failure lies with the one non-Mastodon server that stopped its (then) 200 members from reconnecting to the 70,000 members of a major Mastodon instance, unlike all other servers. Note: mastodonapp.uk publishes its list of blocked servers, calckey.social does not.
(DIR) Post #AVPa5q2XqAob0MIJNI by ArtBear@mastodonapp.uk
2023-05-07T10:54:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@the_roamer @atomicpoet @fediversenews Moderating & admining is hard.I have no knowledge or judgment on actual cases.My concern is very much on, Failure to Inform.I'm very active, yet I had no clue ongoing issues & ongoing blocks for 5 months until this weekend.I found out only by trying to see my mastodonapp.uk account from elsewhere and could not, entirely blocked.If info didn't reach me, it will not have reached many others.Not good enough, & clearly not resolved as presented.
(DIR) Post #AVPaOYDILMfLDcFHBA by LukeAlmighty@gameliberty.club
2023-05-07T12:33:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@constantine @skotchygut @atomicpoet @fediversenews Community based instance block...You mean #fediblock ? That exists already. And the consensus seems to be: NPC the hell out or begone.
(DIR) Post #AVPllwPVe2PiQ8JZ1E by leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club
2023-05-07T14:40:59.557723Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@constantine Playing with fire is what these trannyfaggots do@atomicpoet @fediversenews
(DIR) Post #AVPs2gBLpm4ijl3a9A by skotchygut@social.tummyacid.net
2023-05-07T15:33:01.252604Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@constantine @fediversenews I guess the harassment campaigns I’ve been on the receiving end don’t matter to you. That’s fine but please don’t claim to speak for most people as you are but one.There are multitudes of groups that make up the fediverse. I don’t see things as binary that you seem to.One group wants to beat the Big Social and free the Internet from corporate control. Hence these people care about mass adoption and the network’s health as a whole.In my experience many of those who speak like this feel entitled to as wide an audience as the corporate networks offered. The result is ensuring only the right people have access to the network at large. The right people being those who precisely share their values. This may create a large network, but it will not create a resilient one. You have not once mentioned any moderation strategies aside from hand-waving away the need for them in detail. Yes we have the tools but it takes extraordinary and on-going effort to use those tools effectively. Exponentially so as the user count grows. Asking this of volunteers is simply too much to expect.The second group […] they don’t want mass adoption, and they don’t care about crumbling of the network. They only wish to preserve their own tiny cozy walled garden.I’d say you have grossly mischaracterized this group. It is their prerogative to isolate if they choose. I run several instances that I isolate. One is just for my family to keep in touch. We share photos of the children on there. I absolutely do not want the internet at large to have access to that cozy walled garden. None of that negatively affects mass adoption. In fact, it broadens it. Those users are using ActivityPub to this day and they are gaining experience in a very safe place to do so.The network should be a ‘patchwork’ as you put it. Therein it finds resilience and utility for the communities it serves. This is not a problem. Insisting that everyone participates in one network as some kind of hive-mind growth hack only serves the short term. It will quickly burn out the moderators that we need to protect the communities we build.
(DIR) Post #AVPs2gsFGIO0sn7q0O by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-07T15:51:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@skotchygut @constantine @fediversenewsprivate places are great. the problem is servers that appear to prospective users like they want to be part of a #fediverse diverse as the #openweb, but act more like private spaces. that's the confusion we should all want to avoid. maybe we need new terms. I want lots of smaller servers focused on moderating harassment, not bad info or opinions. only block servers that want to harbor assholes, not weirdos. reading public timelines will always be sketchy.
(DIR) Post #AVPw1m7UfhrigD4p5E by luca@sironi.tk
2023-05-07T05:56:30.694951Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@atomicpoet @fediversenews maybe I'm alone on this, but I think this defederation drama thing is the top single flaw of the fediverse.In order to have a moderation issue, you have to be either a small server gathering 100% idiots/spammer/annnoyed kids as their mission, or a huge general server with tens of thousands of users.In that last case, many innocent people on the offending server will never figure it out.End users should be aware that messages they find on their federated timeline are not moderated in the way local post are, and if it's the extreme case, they can block the instance by themselves.
(DIR) Post #AVPw1nM4517CVgtyQy by codesmith@techhub.social
2023-05-07T14:55:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@luca @atomicpoet @fediversenews 1) A significantly less moderated federated timeline is not the only drawback to removing defederation. What's a far bigger deal is that defederation also affects who can respond to your posts. And if an admin is allowing (or encouraging) their people to harass others, it is reasonable to cut off that admin's server.2) We should not rely on minorities having to block harm on their own. Requiring them to block all harm by themselves means relying on them being constantly exposed to harm. As a community we should be trying to reduce that as much as possible.3) There are enough "extreme cases" that if defederation was not in place I would pack up my bags and leave ActivityPub forever.Is defederation a great solution? Not always. Are there problems with overuse? Yes. Would the Fediverse be worse without it? 100%
(DIR) Post #AVPw1nwvrwbcM29Pto by luca@sironi.tk
2023-05-07T15:33:16.968327Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@codesmith @atomicpoet @fediversenews hello @codesmith trying to speak in general and to abstract from the specific case.let me try to expand some personal thoughtsi think that we have to distinguish if we are defederating a bunch of 50 script kiddies or a server with 70000 users, aimed at generic discussions.The bigger the server, most sure we should be.I'm expecting that such a big server, moderated by people in their free time from jobs/family will take some time (days?) to cope with moderating incidents coming from outside.And statistically the possibility of finding 50 rotten apples among 70k is high.But that also mean that minority groups for sure are also there, on the same server, and they suddenly get cutted from the possibility to find people willing to speak with them.Eventually they could end up thinking that fediverse is boring and mainstream and quit it.We are all losing then.All because some stupid person share the same instance and moderation is so slow.70000 users is a town, how many people you don't know and you never encounter in your town ?I'm not saying you have to block harassersone by one.If you feel overwhelmed, the mastodon server i used to frequent before doing my own personal instance, gave all users the possibility to personally block a whole instance.Also moderators/admin have more fine tune tuning, like hiding certain users from timeline if you don't already follow them, that sort of things
(DIR) Post #AVPw1oTXugh3zBPSjY by codesmith@techhub.social
2023-05-07T15:54:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@luca @atomicpoet @fediversenews Okay, so do I understand correctly that your issue is not defederation but rather defederation of large instances?
(DIR) Post #AVPw1p6tYOAXxDot4C by skotchygut@social.tummyacid.net
2023-05-07T16:08:35.118252Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@codesmith @luca @atomicpoet @fediversenews good thing no one would ever think to inflate server numbers by adding a bunch of fake accounts…problem solved!
(DIR) Post #AVQnhCW0jZKJzHBOuu by FinchHaven@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-05-07T14:57:11Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@atomicpoet @constantine @fediversenews OKIf this is a sample of the crap Fediverse News is going to pump into my Home timeline, Fediverse News is gonna get unFollowed and Muted and Blocked in about two heartbeatsDon't need it; don't want it; don't care if the poster is being "ironic"He's already Muted and Blocked and his instance breastmilk.club is my first Blocked domainNot with my pixels, you don'tcc @leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club
(DIR) Post #AVQnhDCuA5dc8JFem8 by leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club
2023-05-08T02:37:14.932791Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@FinchHaven Lol@atomicpoet @constantine @fediversenews
(DIR) Post #AVQns2UULTOq59dfqC by leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club
2023-05-08T02:39:12.697943Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@codesmith @luca @atomicpoet @fediversenews
(DIR) Post #AVQoL2gigtWX5lBpWy by SrRochardBunson@universeodon.com
2023-05-07T01:19:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@atomicpoet @fediversenews I'm sure that it was warranted. How do I find out if my instance has blocked them yet? 🤔
(DIR) Post #AVQoL3L8Gdql7666WO by ArtBear@mastodonapp.uk
2023-05-07T01:24:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet @fediversenews If you can see this account, no block.
(DIR) Post #AVQoL43naZZxLczm8u by SrRochardBunson@universeodon.com
2023-05-07T01:29:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ArtBear @atomicpoet @fediversenews Oh, Hi there! 👋 What do you think about it?
(DIR) Post #AVQoL4m6vp1ZZ3jADA by ArtBear@mastodonapp.uk
2023-05-07T01:35:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet @fediversenews Hiya 👋 Well I cancelled my monthly donation to mastodonapp.ukI assumed I might have made some awful social faux pas around November/December and loads of people I was being friendly with either disappeared or maybe blocked me. Awful meme-age or poor taste in music, or cooking related or something.Turns out loads of servers blocked my server without there being any solid communication of that to users here.So frankly I'm pissed, really pissed.
(DIR) Post #AVQoL5SeNf3Hgzd8W8 by wild1145@mastodonapp.uk
2023-05-07T10:22:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ArtBear @SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet Instance admin here on mastodonapp.uk. We get zero notification a server blocks us, we have no way to work out who does / does not block us and as I've said in other messages on here before we have had issues with moderation misunderstandings back in Nov of last year, and are still suffering from that due to abandoned projects being used that still list us as a site recommended to block.
(DIR) Post #AVQoL6AbkEDJtKCF28 by ArtBear@mastodonapp.uk
2023-05-07T11:12:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wild1145 @SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet I'm sure none of this is simple, tools/info could clearly be better, but I see a quite different picture exists on calckey's flagship server.Here's the project's lead dev answering my slightly exasperated questions regarding their blocking of Mastodonapp.ukhttps://calckey.social/notes/9eg7nqufl2
(DIR) Post #AVQoL6f5usbHPsSaYK by wild1145@mastodonapp.uk
2023-05-07T11:18:25Z
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@ArtBear @SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet The tools / info is currently frowned apon in the Mastodon communities anyway as it is a gateway to abuse.I'm also not sure what they've seen and they haven't engaged with any of our mod team nor have they reported anything since at least Feb as I've gone back through every report. I'm hoping this is a mis understanding or they're looking at something older because we only have 3 members of our team and I know none of us have seen such a report.
(DIR) Post #AVQoL7EBoOfnAiscFs by ArtBear@mastodonapp.uk
2023-05-07T11:34:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wild1145 @SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet I hope you can reach out to them & resolve this issue, not least because I feel like #Calckey is kinda going to be a big deal around here.
(DIR) Post #AVQoL7xv4NFjSYH8XA by wild1145@mastodonapp.uk
2023-05-07T11:36:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ArtBear @SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet Absolutely, we don't want folks to block us and we especially don't want it if it's something we haven't had the ability to fix. I've re checked reports and have seen nothing from Calckey domain so either something is broken with their ability to send us reports or the report was simply never shared with us for us to do anything. As soon as we know the report info we will investigate and resolve the concerns.
(DIR) Post #AVQoL8dOaAQhXBgGBM by leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club
2023-05-08T02:44:24.699897Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wild1145 Most blocks are the result of someone being a terrible person but assuming the people they are blocking are the bad guy. It’s usually a pathetic attempt at projection. I’ve seen it from both the left and the right, people who are incapable of civil disagreement and see different opinions as “violence” or a “personal attack”@ArtBear @SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet
(DIR) Post #AVQowy92205s0NW8Yq by leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club
2023-05-08T02:51:18.727964Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@skotchygut I particularly take issue with your distinction of major instances. It does not matter how large an instance is. The rules should be the same for all.This is correctDe-federation is how admins of different servers protect their communities.This is usually not true and is generally fake and gay@atomicpoet @constantine @fediversenews
(DIR) Post #AVQoxki7SqgId6Ipuq by ozzy@fedihub.rocks
2023-05-07T12:13:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@constantineFediverse doesn't have to be anythingFediverse has to be everything, everywhere, all at once@skotchygut @fediversenews
(DIR) Post #AVQoxlaMDC4BLJg9SK by Theblueone@mastodon.social
2023-05-07T12:18:24Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ozzy @constantine @skotchygut @fediversenews May the Fediverse be with you.
(DIR) Post #AVQp9GynpSGxtbbF32 by skotchygut@social.tummyacid.net
2023-05-07T16:06:10.555786Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@FinchHaven @atomicpoet @constantine @fediversenews breastmilk.club is a very problematic instance. I blocked them and their friends after a targeted harassment campaign a week ago. You can try to report them but that only invites more harassment.Hoping the moderators of your instance take notice. Feel free to @ me for the rest of the instances I blocked in that wave.
(DIR) Post #AVQpABxhyCGWciWfku by leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club
2023-05-08T02:53:42.120287Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@skotchygut @FinchHaven @atomicpoet @constantine @fediversenews
(DIR) Post #AVQpHD8O0gHCHnrqIC by voron@mstdn.party
2023-05-07T01:37:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ArtBear @SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet @fediversenews filed under “but mastodon is easy”
(DIR) Post #AVQpHDg3zTDNyFcjmi by skotchygut@social.tummyacid.net
2023-05-07T02:00:10.629210Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@voron @ArtBear @SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet @fediversenews there is literally no easy solution here. Come up with one that doesn't involve trade offs.I'll wait.
(DIR) Post #AVQpHEHziRYXrtN1uK by amart@hachyderm.io
2023-05-07T21:05:05Z
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@skotchygut @voron @ArtBear @SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet @fediversenews So I just logged into my home instance hachyderm.io via web browser (usually I’m on via Mona). At the top I see there is an administrative notice. I click on it and I get the following - straight-forward and clear.One of the reasons I’m on hachyderm - they run the instance like it’s a real business with performance standards.
(DIR) Post #AVQpHEzF7e9Q21bZJo by maegul@hachyderm.io
2023-05-08T01:01:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amart @skotchygut @voron @ArtBear @SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet @fediversenews Yes. But also what’s with the apps not providing these announcements?! (I haven’t seen one that has announcements in the interface)
(DIR) Post #AVQpHFXH57NBjZWkMa by skotchygut@social.tummyacid.net
2023-05-08T01:03:00.930326Z
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@maegul @amart @voron @ArtBear @SrRochardBunson @atomicpoet @fediversenews that decision should be up to the hard-working admins and moderators.
(DIR) Post #AVQpHGAGk8Z5gVlt8y by leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club
2023-05-08T02:54:55.775172Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@skotchygut Let’s leave all the decisions up to Stalin@amart @maegul @atomicpoet @ArtBear @voron @SrRochardBunson @fediversenews