Post AVCUJ6t1OMjUEnJ2Lg by paul@digitalstuntfactory.com
(DIR) More posts by paul@digitalstuntfactory.com
(DIR) Post #AVAgjIl2gh6BicuS6y by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T07:52:29Z
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Bluesky vs. Mastodon is not as black and white as many seem to think. Let me explain why. 🧵 1. A Twitter founder funds and advises Bluesky.Okay, a Twitter founder (@ev) runs a for-profit instance, and another (@biz) has offered to advise Mastodon.2. Bluesky accepted VC money.A VC firm owns 3 of the top 5 largest Mastodon servers3. An evil corporation (Twitter) helped develop Bluesky.An evil corporation (Google) helped develop the FediverseI have further thoughts here...
(DIR) Post #AVAgjJQsBAYjoMTrJQ by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T07:56:37Z
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I have many, many reservations about the direction that Bluesky is going. I also have many, many reservations about the direction Mastodon is going. I don't like the AI and algorithm-direction that Bluesky is going.I don't like Mastodon's slow development towards user discovery is going, and how things like full text search and quote posts aren't here. There's a lot of criticize, but I admire anyone who releases working code. But let's get to the real crux of where I think this is going.
(DIR) Post #AVAgjL89rimH4tjwQ4 by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:00:17Z
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First off, I have a personal and financial stake in the success of ActivityPub: Things that I'm doing right now:1. Developer video/audio software that federates through ActivityPub2. Building a federated managed hosting service3. Building a federated crowdfunding service4. Running 5(!) servers, 3 which are open to the public5. Reporting on every new development here on this accountI'm pro-ActivityPub.
(DIR) Post #AVAiITPl9r1YrMI1uy by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:04:04Z
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I'm also not going to chase after the shiny new thing. We've seen lots of hyped social media platforms come and go.Remember BeReal? Clubhouse? Horizon Worlds? The Tech Press all breathlessly reported on each of them as the Next Big Thingâ„¢ -- and then they fizzled. The Tech Press aren't visionaries. They just report on the zeitgeist.Guess what? In the world of tech the zeitgeist changes from week to week.
(DIR) Post #AVAiIUFs26hxSyfe8u by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:07:42Z
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The other thing is, it's easy to look at the present and believe it's somehow indicative of the future.A year ago, nobody gave a damn about Mastodon. Now it's the frontrunner.Things change on a dime, and not in the way everyone quite imagines.But one thing I've been absolutely sure of for the past 5 years is that decentralization is the future of social media, and will change the Internet itself.However, at first, I made missteps too...
(DIR) Post #AVAiIUobwwUtCivOIC by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:10:40Z
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When I first thought about decentralized social media, my vision was *not* the Fediverse, but something else entirely:Peer-to-Peer social networking.To make social media completely free, resistant to centralization, I began work on a peer-to-peer messaging app with microblogging capabilities.It made it to alpha, and we managed to send and receive messages to recipients on phones. But I after to trying to pitch decentralization to everyone, I found tremendous resistance.
(DIR) Post #AVAiIVSfY0XXCxfNjM by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:13:42Z
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Understand that I spent 3 years working really hard on that peer-to-peer app. But I was working on it in a climate of everyone believing Big Social had a lock, and that it was "wrong" to move people away from centralized services.That, and I didn't realize that crypto pretty much poisoned the well, and few people were willing to consider decentralized and peer-to-peer social media unless it had a blockchain attached to the project.This isn't just a trip down memory lane, I have a point...
(DIR) Post #AVAiIVzzY7C8sJFzfc by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:17:43Z
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Eventually, I had to give up on my peer-to-peer social media project. Why? Because like it or not, server-to-server federation moved the needle closer to what I truly wanted: decentralization of social media.Idealistically, I don't prefer servers. They create a social hierarchy.But server-to-server federation is still better than one entity owning all our social media.And sure enough, I was right. Millions of people did migrate to the Fediverse.So I put my efforts there.
(DIR) Post #AVAjdXcaoNKTwVtzv6 by mb@101010.pl
2023-04-30T08:36:20Z
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@atomicpoet Nice thread. However we see more and more clearly that a federated architecture requires sound and transparent rules of governance. Otherwise, hasty, rash and fervent #fediblocks risk degrading the #fediverse into a myriad of isles and archipelagos. We need governance rules on how and when #fediblocks can be applied, with the right to appeal. This should be fair, transparent, evidence-based, with an option to #refederate after some time, when the alleged wrongdoing has been addressed and resolved.
(DIR) Post #AVAjifINhu71ButLZA by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:22:05Z
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Now remember, am I completely sold on ActivityPub or Mastodon or the Fediverse?No.But the Fediverse does something incredibly important: it validates that social media can and should be decentralized.It doesn't do this purposely. There's clear problems. I don't think anyone, including people who participated in the working group at the W3C, believe this is the best outcome.But it's a better outcome than the alternative: further centralization.
(DIR) Post #AVAjig9CXWMZpjbWtc by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:25:17Z
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Now ActivityPub has done something even more important. It caught Silicon Valley with their pants down.Prior to last November, Silicon Valley's entire attention was on crypto and AI. Mastodon and the Fediverse wasn't even on their radar.And now Mastodon -- with an operating budget of ~300,000/year -- has pretty much shamed the tech bros.Well, now the tech bros must respond, and Bluesky is their response.But this isn't a bad thing either.
(DIR) Post #AVAjihzLh7fdXl0goi by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:29:28Z
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Bluesky has gone into beta at a time the product is clearly not ready. Features Bluesky doesn't have:1. DMs2. Hashtags3. Edits4. Lists5. EmbeddingIt had to add blocking yesterday or else face a mutiny from its users.And it hasn't federated yet.Why? Because if it didn't release, it would be ceding more and more to Mastodon.And now it's using Silicon Valley's bag of tricks to build a hype cycle.
(DIR) Post #AVAjijiPH5J4tn6Bge by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:33:06Z
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Now while I don't think much of Bluesky as it currently exists, I'm going to acknowledge one thing. They've keyed in on many of Mastodon's drawbacks by offering:1. Quoted posts2. Full text search3. Easy sign-upsIs this a coincidence? Nope, they're offering what Mastodon doesn't in their MVP -- and I don't blame them.To be fair, Mastodon is offering things Bluesky isn't too. But that's not my point.My point is that Bluesky is attacking Mastodon's weaknesses.
(DIR) Post #AVAoOd6ycJCcOfp5lI by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:37:40Z
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Now some people may see Bluesky vs. Mastodon as a war.And Bluesky and Mastodon themselves may see this as a war.But we, Fediverse participants, can win.For one thing, Bluesky has released AT protocol with an open source MIT license. Yes, corporations don't do this unless they intend to use it with a proprietary product.But AT protocol is still open source, and we can use it.For one thing, it's clear that AT protocol offers a chance to use nomadic identity.That's progress!
(DIR) Post #AVAoOdrloKdIjniShM by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:42:29Z
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Here's the deal. AT protocol being open source means we don't have to use Bluesky. We don't have to talk to them.We can benefit from it on our own terms -- and we should!Just as Google helped the development of OStatus, the precursor of ActivityPub, we can take AT protocol and develop further with it.Hell, the MIT license means it's compatible with the AGPL.
(DIR) Post #AVAoOeQ9kU8eSRnvIO by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:46:52Z
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But AT protocol also means that more people -- many who would never use Mastodon -- will leave centralized social media like Twitter and migrate to decentralized social media.Bluesky doesn't fill me with joy.Yet Bluesky is an objective improvement over Twitter... if it federates. If it doesn't federate and this whole decentralization spiel is a lie, then screw them.But if they're serious about decentralization, hundreds of thousands of new people will join the Fediverse.
(DIR) Post #AVAoOf5HHb22Vz2lOK by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:51:16Z
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With all this rush to Bluesky, though, there's a few things that people aren't considering:1. People on Bluesky are interested in the broader Fediverse. I should know -- I talk to them.2. Misskey/Calckey are growing at an obscenely fast rate right now, and nobody's talking about that -- especially media3. If you think Bluesky is hyped, wait till Barcelona comes along. That will probably use ActivityPub.
(DIR) Post #AVAoOfdfDkXOEd8DzM by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:55:16Z
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And again, this is why this whole "war" of decentralized services becomes ridiculous.Because what will happen when Barcelona joins the Fediverse?Well, now Bluesky won't be the Evil Empire. They'll might be regarded as the Luke Skywalker going against the Evil Empire.
(DIR) Post #AVAoOgQaHrfYgM1IEy by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T08:58:23Z
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And when Barcelona joins the Fediverse, we'll all have a big debate, some of us saying moral people should never talk to Barcelona, that it has no redeeming quality.Meanwhile, millions of people will join the Fediverse -- which is a substantial improvement over them being stuck on centralized social media.I don't like Meta. They're terrible. They're a shit stain on society.But now they're feeling the pressure to decentralize.
(DIR) Post #AVAoOgyyE1AuP06kq0 by Rairii@haqueers.com
2023-04-30T09:05:13Z
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@atomicpoet this assumes that Barcelona really will implement ActivityPub fully (from the start), and not just a one-way bridge."I don't like Meta. They're terrible. They're a shit stain on society" - agreed, and in my opinion people agreeing with this statement is why Barcelona will get heavily blocked upon release.
(DIR) Post #AVAoOh7ph4GQqUFpeS by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-30T09:00:50Z
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So to conclude this big bloody thread. Nothing is ideal. But things are just a little bit better than they were a year ago, and for that reason, it's important to acknowledge there's a higher cause here.Even an incremental improvement is an improvement.
(DIR) Post #AVAoOhTSOfYrvYN6MC by niclas@angrytoday.com
2023-04-30T09:29:41Z
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@Rairii Reminds me of the old MS strategy of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish@atomicpoet
(DIR) Post #AVB9NC0dzj2j5a17Kq by miklo@soc.citizen4.eu
2023-04-30T12:37:50Z
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@mb @atomicpoetAny "right to appeal" means that we agree to submit to the judgment of some "judicial" body, which gives that body more power than the admin of any server has at the moment. Who would create, elect this body ? What about servers whose admins would not agree to submit to the "authority" of this body ?
(DIR) Post #AVBDk3RYPNfv00lEES by mb@101010.pl
2023-04-30T14:13:42Z
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@miklo @atomicpoet It depends. If #fediverse is to evolve into a community, then some form of democratic (representative), procedure-bound and evidence-based authority would be necessary. If if is to be a set of users of a common ActivityPub protocol only, then it would end up as many bubbles isolating (and eventually isolated) one from another. To answer your questions more precisely:Q: Who would create, elect this body ? A: There are many possibilities: for example, admins or moderators, eg. delegated by communities or on rotation; or trusted moderators chosen for the task by a majority for a term. Important would be that they follow transparent procedures, and that decisions are evidence-based. Also: their decisions would not be for an undetermined duration, but for a prescribed period of time.Q: What about servers whose admins would not agree to submit to the "authority" of this body ? A: They could ponder if this is really in their interest to stay outside. And if they do, they would have no impact on community’s decisions at all. It does not mean, however, that they would be necessarily blocked. On the other hand, any server using Mastodon would have the right to appeal. And this due to the mere fact that they are Mastodon.#fediblock #Mastodon #governance
(DIR) Post #AVBHWbv7pJvngqRBGC by momo@mk.absturztau.be
2023-04-30T14:56:05.641Z
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@atomicpoet@mastodon.social @ev@me.dm @biz@me.dm I always find the name "Bluesky" amusing. Jack, as a VC, would know that's a term used to denote businesses that have "no more basis than so many feet of 'blue sky'".https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_sky_law
(DIR) Post #AVCUJ6t1OMjUEnJ2Lg by paul@digitalstuntfactory.com
2023-04-30T08:25:24Z
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@atomicpoet How much scope is there to expand #ActivityPub to make it more compelling and flexible? Presumably it can still evolve?
(DIR) Post #AVCUJ7ZCrWTcLd2j6O by smallcircles@social.coop
2023-04-30T09:46:00Z
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@paul @atomicpoet We have the Fediverse Enhancement Proposal process, the #FEP where ever more protocol-level mechanisms and #ActivityPub extensions are defined. The process is open to anyone, and proposals are then discussed in the #SocialHub developer community.https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fepHow AP extensions are best defined isn't yet well-documented. It should become a FEP. Btw, on best-practices I recently posted..https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/best-practices-for-ap-vocabulary-extensions/3162/5
(DIR) Post #AVCUJ97H6LK39ZzRqK by paul@digitalstuntfactory.com
2023-04-30T09:48:08Z
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@smallcircles Thanks for sharing that. Does #FEP borrow from the #Python #PEP model, by any chance? 🤔 👉 @atomicpoet
(DIR) Post #AVCUJAJMesaSrMecKG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-01T04:53:55Z
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@paul>Does FEP borrow from the Python PEP model, by any chance?Also relevant is the XEP process that the XMPP Foundation has developed for extending the XMPP federation protocol:https://xmpp.org/about/standards-process/@smallcircles @atomicpoet
(DIR) Post #AVCyOgvnnpfc6MBU9I by rootadmin@mastodon.online
2023-05-01T10:31:10Z
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@mb That smells like UFoI, which resulted on its instance members being blocked on sight by few others.@miklo