Post AV8yvj3EAJBfbFZNB2 by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
(DIR) More posts by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
(DIR) Post #AV8VLo9AqObwJCs70q by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T06:46:51.255933Z
5 likes, 1 repeats
plato slander on the tl 😤
(DIR) Post #AV8VYwesVhdUTFxvRQ by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T06:49:13.500604Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@renai 3,000,000,000 posts of it for you to enjoy :reimuhappy:
(DIR) Post #AV8VufbEcC5Lw1cXGy by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T06:53:09.689001Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
@ai people just diss him because he's not cool enough, even though he's fundamentally right about a lot of things. much like kantthey want the "exciting" philosophers, but i've already gone through those and gotten tired of them. i wonder what the obsession with nietzsche for example is
(DIR) Post #AV8W2yvwcDegDOGqYK by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T06:54:35.767578Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@renai Yeah that guy is a gay loser. "Realm of ideas," bitch come out of the cave and I'll show you the realm of Mongolian warfare
(DIR) Post #AV8WFtKkkMqUc01xI0 by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T06:56:56.862142Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @ai Personally I like Nietzsche because he's a lot like me. I don't subscribe to his philosophy or anything but I think he's a character that I can identify a lot with. That said the reason people identify with him in general is because A: he strikes at a very important wild core to humanity that others fail to. And B: he is a poet and is concerned with aesthetics, and the aesthetic physiognomy of a philosophy is very important.
(DIR) Post #AV8WQ4e3XwDQaaumTw by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T06:58:49.597178Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden i'd say you're thinking of plato as a typical idealist, which he isn't. he doesn't say the world descends from forms or is a product of forms somehow. forms are a part of the world but they're inextricably tied to humans. this is what makes him interesting
(DIR) Post #AV8WQ7L1X9m2wR27jU by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T06:58:48.218634Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @hidden Definitely both are right about a lot of things. I wonder, often, if Plato and Kant were hampered by the limitations of their environment. Plato talking to retards who refuse to believe higher truth even exists, and Kant talking to nihilists who refuse to believe that objective morality exists. I've never read Nietzsche (or a lot of the exciting philosophers). I shall try sometime
(DIR) Post #AV8WWTo2uX64MXdrfc by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T06:59:58.277670Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@renai Doesn't he think forms are higher than the world
(DIR) Post #AV8WZZSOMFrIkyzHZg by cinerion@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:00:34.958223Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@ai @renai @hidden tfw the only philosopher i can say i have attentively read is Lao Zi.
(DIR) Post #AV8WfMxJkYuLirDY7U by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T07:01:36.197336Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ai @hidden there were philosophers a lot more hampered by their environment, so much that i feel sorry for them. wittgenstein for example effectively was writing for people who didn't exist back then and still don't, poor sod
(DIR) Post #AV8WfcqSfovl0E8Iee by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:01:38.483260Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@cinerion @ai @renai Philosophers are kinda like Seinfeld they're a good way to wind down after a long day
(DIR) Post #AV8WmJXgq5V7ABXfVo by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:02:47.435994Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@cinerion @hidden @renai As opposed to cinerion (non daoist version) who has clearly not attentively read Lao Zi
(DIR) Post #AV8WoQcrTSTXi9y9GC by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T07:03:14.793696Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden the concept of higher doesn't really come into it since forms aren't a thing-in-themselves
(DIR) Post #AV8WsPX3TxatTg9V0C by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:03:52.294071Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@renai Ok so what's the point?
(DIR) Post #AV8WsYijJvHRyUgRwu by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:03:56.246156Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@hidden @cinerion @renai "whAaAAaAAAAAAt's the deal with morality????"
(DIR) Post #AV8WuWQAq8vZQGwLxo by cinerion@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:04:18.694799Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ai @hidden @renai It is because i've understood it that i don't speak of the great Dao. Speak too much of the way and you shall never achieve it ☯️
(DIR) Post #AV8XIOtQTtiV1a0c2C by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T07:08:31.615957Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden it's a solution to the problem of universals. when we look at anything and see it has a quality like colour that it shares with other things, is that quality something that exists outside of those specific objects
(DIR) Post #AV8XMPWK5gBi827B5s by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:09:18.811774Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@renai Why is that a problem? I don't get it. Plato sounds like Mercurial Black
(DIR) Post #AV8XcwfIcvPBYhCJtI by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T07:12:23.525896Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden the problem of induction is my favorite. i really love that one
(DIR) Post #AV8XlOzzAPItkauEsq by Komnene@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:13:54.213618Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @renai Forms are the parts of the word that don't change and are above our senses
(DIR) Post #AV8XsRxGZfmowhzjoe by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:15:04.297223Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Komnene @renai I feel like we're just getting into arguments about semantics now. That's what I thought forms were but now Renai is telling me I don't understand Plato and it's actually an answer to the problem of univerals.
(DIR) Post #AV8YCPypcsdWc4FT8K by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:18:43.085818Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@renai What's the problem of induction?
(DIR) Post #AV8ZXAeLv20P6P844e by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T07:33:44.101204Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden deductive reasoning is something where if you accept the premises, the conclusion is logically necessary. inductive reasoning is something that doesn't have this watertightness, like inferring the sun will rise tomorrow from repeated observation of the sun rising every day.inductive reasoning: future events will tend to follow the course of past ones; things on a larger scale will tend to resemble things on a smaller one, etc. but the fun part is that these arguments are inductive. inductive reasoning itself can only be proven by inductive reasoning, which makes it circular. there isn't any connection between previous risings of the sun and whether it will tomorrow, and it can't be even said to be any more likely since that involves the past predicting the future too.
(DIR) Post #AV8ZddNC2VXxvJBWV6 by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:34:49.659739Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@renai Damn inductive reasoning is pretty fucking based
(DIR) Post #AV8ZfQrVWgkXhTDnf6 by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:35:13.561217Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @hidden I guess forms help to solve the problem of induction because they are (almost by definition) knowable through reason, so if the world is governed by the same forms, then we can predict that it will continue to behave tomorrow according to the same patterns I know today (from reason and observation)
(DIR) Post #AV8a0AWNTZxz6LE5Gi by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T07:38:58.964131Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ai @hidden i wouldn't say knowledge of forms makes us any better at predicting future events, it's just using inductive reasoning on another level. is it this form or this other one being expressed through that happening? human error comes into it anyway
(DIR) Post #AV8a2YjcQCUsmGYkSG by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:39:23.608320Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @ai YUeah only eyes make you good at predicting future events
(DIR) Post #AV8aALWtP0J88fJuAy by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T07:40:49.434453Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @ai so you're going the "if i smash your head in with this mallet i reason you won't be able to care about inductive reasoning anymore" route
(DIR) Post #AV8aDjxl14ZimnVKCm by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:41:26.171956Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @hidden Yeah I meant that the existence of forms helps *justify* inductive reasoning, not that forms help us do anything we couldn't have done before (and I'd guess Plato would say that, we were using forms before, even if we didn't know it)
(DIR) Post #AV8aEOwmdb9pteMcsa by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:41:28.168215Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @ai I don't know what you're talking about!
(DIR) Post #AV8aKelsiUyoiCFOkq by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T07:42:41.695332Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ai @hidden but it doesn't do that either! it's just redirecting the problem of induction and not solving it! unless i'm missing something!
(DIR) Post #AV8aNQPqXvYN3fGEHw by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T07:43:11.816400Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @ai what's that under your wing then
(DIR) Post #AV8aYkMEk9mY5kyG7k by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:45:10.678432Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @ai It's a fish you want some ?
(DIR) Post #AV8al3MzskkeX4C8jw by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:47:25.921447Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @hidden Yeah, I guess it just redirects it to the question "why does our knowledge about *forms* generalize from past to future, or from small to large?" I'm rusty with my Plato, but I guess he'd say something like it's in the nature of forms to do so. I'm thinking of a classical question about induction: what if we had a word "blergh" which meant "green if the year is < 2030, and blue if the year is >= 2030." For the entire history of Earth, it's been true that "grass is blergh." Am I justified in concluding that "grass is blergh" will always be true? No! Why not? Why does induction work for "green" but not for "blergh"? I'd guess Plato would say that "blergh" is just not a valid form for something to have. So the set of "forms" is already cut down to what works with induction. But I'm not sure ...
(DIR) Post #AV8b0ulRe5OATYC2oy by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:50:15.205928Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @hidden This is a very .... visceral illustration of your point that reasoning about inductive reasoning always involves inductive reasoning. I think?
(DIR) Post #AV8b30dSmsFRGRSVQe by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:50:40.263237Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ai @renai Inductive reasoning is based.
(DIR) Post #AV8bF5HNLccf8pswUK by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:52:50.567585Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
@hidden @renai Based? BASED ON WHAT?? WHAT IS INDUCTIVE REASONING BASED ON???? WHAT IS ITS FOUNDATION???? Potion seller: "I can't tell you what inductive reasoning is based on. You're too weak." POTION SELLER!!!! I'M IN A DEBATE AND I NEED YOUR STRONGEST ARGUMENTS. WHAT IS INDUCTIVE REASONING BASED ON??? HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY IT???? Potion seller: "I can't justify inductive reasoning to you because inductive reasoning is only for the strongest of fediposters and you are clearly of the weakest." POTION SELLER!!!!!!!
(DIR) Post #AV8bNfawDANM5Z84q8 by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:54:24.669482Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@ai @renai Fine. I will tell you.It's based on inductive reasoning.
(DIR) Post #AV8bNvQXLbYxBwNzqi by Komnene@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:54:27.277025Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @renai The point is that senses aren't the world
(DIR) Post #AV8bP4d4cSmI1NnVkO by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T07:54:41.668503Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@ai @hidden the funny thing is it's not based on anything :smug1:
(DIR) Post #AV8bRImkxSWKVNOC00 by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:55:04.507400Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Komnene @renai I don't think that's the point at all unless he believes that the physical world does not exist and is simply our senses arranging a world as a reaction to the world of forms
(DIR) Post #AV8bT9XUJ3dcPK87fM by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:55:25.245194Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @renai POOOOOOTTTTTTIIIIIOOOOONNNNN SEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLEEEEEERRRRRRR!!!!!! I HAVE NO MORE TIME FOR YOUR GAMES!!! I'M TELLING YOU. I'M GOING INTO A DEBATE, AND I NEED YOUR STRONGEST ARGUMENTS. TELL ME, WHAT IS INDUCTIVE REASONING ACTUALLY BASED ON???
(DIR) Post #AV8biEKMmlhdbOBLWa by Komnene@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:58:07.681271Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@hidden @renai There isn't a different world, there's the world and your senses that you perceive it through but they lie to you and you need to know the forms which are the parts of the world that don't change to counter the illusions
(DIR) Post #AV8bnlZScAa69WskAi by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:59:07.680973Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Komnene @renai If that is true then Plato is even worse than I thought!
(DIR) Post #AV8bsL5qU9djTvD6RM by Komnene@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T07:59:57.386856Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @renai That's the basis of most of philosophy
(DIR) Post #AV8bsZ5ISzWGsH3rWq by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-29T08:00:03.025240Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ai @hidden @renai observation and pattern recognition.
(DIR) Post #AV8bx0OGsx66il3Ome by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T08:00:47.590072Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Komnene @renai If that is true then western philosophy is poison from the start!
(DIR) Post #AV8byRpIMgb26LNjlI by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T08:01:04.643098Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Komnene @hidden that goes beyond even things-in-themselves, which plato didn't use as a concept. illusion definitely isn't involved
(DIR) Post #AV8c1DkHAqmTIaM9om by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T08:01:33.905464Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @Komnene Ok I'll let the Plato scholars duke it out I'm gonna eat a kiwi 🤝
(DIR) Post #AV8c4qCMfALVQZDkhM by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T08:02:13.862925Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@PonyPanda @hidden @renai POTION SELLER!!!! ISN'T THAT JUST ANOTHER WAY TO SAY "INDUCTIVE REASONING"?? POTION SELLER!!!!!
(DIR) Post #AV8c7sXoOhCxZWhXEG by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T08:02:35.653712Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @Komnene With the skin on 🤝people who don't eat the Kiwi skin shouldn't be allowed Kiwis
(DIR) Post #AV8c8TnLtscj6RFy5Y by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-29T08:02:55.595573Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Komnene @hidden @renai do these people not know that the allegory of the cave is just an allegory?Is this some sort of meta-statement?
(DIR) Post #AV8cCYOyiKSGY6nZiq by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T08:03:37.301936Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @Komnene i'm allergic to kiwis :JahyWEH:
(DIR) Post #AV8cFZRFJgNgdIIWie by hidden@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T08:04:08.771903Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @Komnene Don't worry. I am too. We will nuke New Zealand together :blobheart:
(DIR) Post #AV8cG7Nt6ftfuizKCm by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-29T08:04:18.426249Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ai @hidden @renai don't all caps spam.
(DIR) Post #AV8cOX7HJqm42NEQmu by Komnene@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T08:05:47.751471Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@PonyPanda @hidden @renai I don't know why the allegory of the cave is popular at all, We've never discussed it academically
(DIR) Post #AV8cPGe82Yn1FHwnjs by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T08:05:54.078659Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@PonyPanda @hidden @renai POTION SELLER!!!!!!!!!!!!
(DIR) Post #AV8cTAB61zMILKE25I by renai@eientei.org
2023-04-29T08:06:36.811349Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@hidden @Komnene tnzd let's go let's unleash the form of a splitting atom on them and their birds
(DIR) Post #AV8coAqwiUSaW9oq4u by ai@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T08:10:23.817351Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @Komnene @hidden POTION SELLER!!!!!!
(DIR) Post #AV8czdQGpqaOJJo4i8 by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-29T08:12:31.968432Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@Komnene @hidden @renai it's a good allegory for idiots like me to understand the forms. And I assure you that I am no academic.the gay science.jpg
(DIR) Post #AV8dUeuZLmR1u9lvPs by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-29T08:18:08.391666Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ai @hidden @renai Brass seller.
(DIR) Post #AV8db5w7mhl3SWZIjg by iamtakingiteasy@eientei.org
2023-04-29T08:19:10.345672Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@renai @hidden Inductive reasoning can be formalized to statistical inference, then you get at least a measurement of certainty.
(DIR) Post #AV8dujqvbLJcl7VLjk by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-29T08:22:51.185912Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ai @renai @Komnene @hiddenvarg and bap.jpg
(DIR) Post #AV8e5sqoUEntqrlVzc by Komnene@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T08:24:47.402705Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@PonyPanda @hidden @renai While the others are having anaphylactic shock, I'll be dining at Vkusno I Tochka
(DIR) Post #AV8eQdUemQnGIqIUdc by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-29T08:28:37.079932Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Komnene @hidden @renai nice.(=▔ω▔=)
(DIR) Post #AV8fuVCsFr25F9miiu by RobinWils@whinge.town
2023-04-29T08:45:11.810192Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@PonyPanda @Komnene @hidden @renai Sorry, but I had to. Haven't read this one yet, but I have read other Nietzsche. Just so that you know he does have arguments against Plato. Good ones. I am aware that Nietzsche has been mentioned in this thread already, so I will spare you more information.At the end of the day you have to find your way.
(DIR) Post #AV8gu5YrhfDDezRC4W by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-29T08:56:21.055234Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@RobinWils @Komnene @hidden @renai words.
(DIR) Post #AV8gwSqg5no0SntzkG by rher@mugicha.club
2023-04-29T08:56:46.403372Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Word.
(DIR) Post #AV8gzBd2ZYJVvRozS4 by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-29T08:57:16.326942Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@PonyPanda @RobinWils @Komnene @hidden @renai Cute
(DIR) Post #AV8vVVoQSqgj9ISGxM by lunarised@whinge.town
2023-04-29T11:39:44.784131Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@RobinWils @PonyPanda @Komnene @hidden @renai that's the most Belgian bedroom I've ever seen
(DIR) Post #AV8xXepE7pQjabyqX2 by RobinWils@whinge.town
2023-04-29T12:02:43.679393Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lunarised @Komnene @PonyPanda @hidden @renai Not sure of that is an insult or not.
(DIR) Post #AV8xoe5c77DEEMkIlc by lunarised@whinge.town
2023-04-29T12:05:40.416351Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@RobinWils @Komnene @PonyPanda @hidden @renai tidy to a fault
(DIR) Post #AV8xtSK7HrsbBdp5kG by Komnene@cawfee.club
2023-04-29T12:06:39.354146Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@RobinWils @hidden @renai @PonyPanda @lunarised The more North and West you get placed, the more of an insult it becomes
(DIR) Post #AV8xyfLiHk4t283QZs by lunarised@whinge.town
2023-04-29T12:07:24.176744Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Komnene @hidden @renai @PonyPanda @RobinWils ok europoor
(DIR) Post #AV8yrWBM4NbgWsMg6q by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-29T12:17:34.597692Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lunarised @RobinWils @Komnene @hidden @renai what the fuck are you talking about? Are you just making up stereotypes now?
(DIR) Post #AV8yvj3EAJBfbFZNB2 by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-29T12:18:20.227293Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Komnene @RobinWils @hidden @lunarised @renai I am very far south and eastern. I am the most beautiful prostitute in all of Macedonia.
(DIR) Post #AV8yz0sILzehkQ1WSW by lunarised@whinge.town
2023-04-29T12:18:43.606574Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@PonyPanda @Komnene @hidden @renai @RobinWils every single time I've come across someone that is obsessively tidy, they've come from Belgium 🇧🇪
(DIR) Post #AV8zzRSxaUTEAowRto by PonyPanda@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-29T12:30:12.828130Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@lunarised @Komnene @RobinWils @hidden @renai "I'm going to describe a quality as being of a nation based on my own anecdotal experience where no such popular consensus exists and I'm going to assume everyone knows what I'm talking about."lunarised.png
(DIR) Post #AV908Woj3tPDNMSHUO by lunarised@whinge.town
2023-04-29T12:31:45.677184Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@PonyPanda @Komnene @hidden @renai @RobinWils damn. You got the low iq drawing and everything Thanks friend