Post AV30ui23VBvf6suA9A by kjuh@troet.cafe
(DIR) More posts by kjuh@troet.cafe
(DIR) Post #AV27846HAbBbstfeXw by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T04:47:05Z
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This discussion about whether the purpose of Mastodon is to centralize or decentralize social media seems pretty esoteric to me. The purpose is to build a vibrant platform and alternative to Twitter – not to use some particular technology that most people struggle to understand. From: @atomicpoethttps://mastodon.social/@atomicpoet/110258414050207425
(DIR) Post #AV27JruYJYkZYVocts by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T04:49:09Z
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@anderspuck There's lots of vibrant alternatives to Twitter. Why use Mastodon instead of those other alternatives?
(DIR) Post #AV27e8GHEYQA3bdi8e by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T04:52:46Z
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@anderspuck @atomicpoet There is a big difference between (de)centralized and a particular technology. Whether fediverse is based on ActivityPub, a technology with particular strengths and weaknesses, or some other protocol (say, Bluesky's AT) is a technology detail.Whether it's centralized to the control of a single entity, or an open network whether everyone can participate and no one can exercise absolute control over, is a completely other matter.
(DIR) Post #AV27naqMKtTTJD1njk by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T04:54:36Z
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@atomicpoet What vibrant alternatives to Twitter are there? Substack notes or Bluesky? I think Mastodon is the best.
(DIR) Post #AV281XleZKg5p6Tkzg by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T04:57:05Z
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@anderspuck Substack Notes, MeWe, Vero, Tribel, Hive—I can go on. They're all centralized. In your opinion, why are they not as good as Mastodon?
(DIR) Post #AV28LO7q7zGli6JqLI by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T05:00:41Z
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@atomicpoet They are certainly not vibrant alternatives to Twitter.
(DIR) Post #AV28im7d4ifKnLN9KC by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T04:57:32Z
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@anderspuck @atomicpoet A decentralized network WILL have large actors on it. It's an unavoidable certainty. The only question is, how many times larger is the largest one compared to the second-largest one.Whether that actor bears the name of Mastodon gGmbH, WordPress.com, Tumblr, or even Meta, is again a detail - as long as they don't have absolute control over the entire network.This part is not that different from geopolitics, Anders :)
(DIR) Post #AV28ip1MIUQrmlSgT2 by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T05:04:58Z
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@osma @atomicpoet I’m all for decentralization. I run my own server too. I think it’s an important underlying technological requirement for a sustainable social network without the flaws that destroyed Twitter. But most people are not technically inclined to ever understand the difference, and they don’t care. For them decentralization will never be the point of a social network.
(DIR) Post #AV28nDLdn8H2OR2iqO by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T05:05:42Z
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@anderspuck Do you understand why Mastodon seems more vibrant to you?Do you realize that, unlike MeWe, an entire community has been building the Fediverse?Do you know that the Fediverse is very much a social cause, and has a reason to exist beyond your need to migrate from Twitter?
(DIR) Post #AV28t3iAX7O8F8MpDU by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T05:06:47Z
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@atomicpoet https://krigskunst.social/@anderspuck/110263369597781885
(DIR) Post #AV295idMD6yMdX9ZCa by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T05:09:05Z
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@anderspuck It's okay if people don't care about decentralization. Not everyone should care. But pushing for centralization under the guise of "easy onboarding" is just plain wrong. I'm all for ease of use, better onboarding, and an improved UI/UX—as long as the net result is decentralization.
(DIR) Post #AV29PTFz5j9MjmdhLM by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T05:12:37Z
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@anderspuck @atomicpoet Whether most people are inclined to understand or care about a particular crucial aspect of a system of interaction is hardly a point over which to determine its importance.A king-for-life or an elected leader? Who cares, most people aren't inclined to understand power dynamics.
(DIR) Post #AV2E8OejRYtVJetOnQ by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T05:21:27Z
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@atomicpoet @anderspuck Chris, I'm not sure I understand why you're so unhappy about Mastodon defaulting to mastodon.social. Weren't you before celebrating the possibility that Tumblr and Flickr might enable ActivityPub? And today you've celebrated that Wordpress is on its way to be the most-installed ActivityPub server - which also implies that Wordpress.com will be the largest host of ActivityPub services.
(DIR) Post #AV2E8PFxDAfVB6J7oW by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T05:22:16Z
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@atomicpoet @anderspuck Mastodon is not the be-all, end-all of fedi. It having its own defaults is not only fair, but expected. And it opens a way for another branded alternative with other defaults - like searchability.As long as they interoperate, and especially if account transfer works fully, that's great.
(DIR) Post #AV2E8Ppl43JAy93ica by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T05:26:41Z
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@osma @anderspuck For better or for worse, Mastodon is the "face" of the Fediverse. And if decentralization cannot succeed on Mastodon, most people won't be believers for a long, long time.
(DIR) Post #AV2E8QPutcEQmHyayu by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T05:33:19Z
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@atomicpoet @anderspuck Decentralization has already succeeded. There are large nodes other than mastodon.social. It is inevitable that a decentralized network has large nodes and clusters. It's a graph theory truism. NOT having such graph features would be a sign of problems in the technology or sign of someone exerting undue control over the system (hence having centralized power).
(DIR) Post #AV2E8S40m1tjsvk87E by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T05:36:14Z
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@atomicpoet @anderspuck Now, I grant you there is a risk that a large node will turn against the rest of the network and start working against even-ground federation. And that's a reason for those of us who understand and care about these things to reside and participate outside the large nodes, namely mastodon.social, or indeed Mastodon. We need to use our knowledge to incentivize the large nodes to play fair.
(DIR) Post #AV2H8ucQuEBKJGkqhM by lethen@mastodon.online
2023-04-26T05:48:00Z
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@atomicpoet @osma @anderspuck "it's activitypub, stupid"I hope that Mastodon can help establish ActivityPub as the defacto protocol for microblogging like SMTP/IMAP is the protocol for email.After that battle is won we can do whatever we want.To win that battle we need to build on Mastodons current momentum and onboarding new users there has to be as easy as possible. The fediverse will not be destroyed by Mastodon having a few large servers.
(DIR) Post #AV2H8vRpp7IYsgntom by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T05:50:31Z
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@lethen @osma @anderspuck I don't share your optimism. 5 of the top 10 Mastodon servers are owned by two companies. Sure, one of them is a non-profit, but that can change.
(DIR) Post #AV2H8vzrmaWKaEj4rY by Deus@charcha.cc
2023-04-26T05:59:05.934284Z
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5 of the top 10 Mastodon servers are owned by two companies😲 TWO? That’s worse than I thought.
(DIR) Post #AV2H8wa1c9RaONdxDs by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T06:21:33Z
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@Deus @anderspuck @lethen @atomicpoet Would you prefer just one? Two means neither can fully control the outcome. And there are five more in the top ten. That is a diverse system with strong players.Too many of them run the same software, for my tastes. Would wish for more diversity on that layer, too.
(DIR) Post #AV2H8xFV7wcYT134s4 by Deus@charcha.cc
2023-04-26T06:28:30.531284Z
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I was expressing my shock at JUST two servers/instances controlling a majority of the popular content in the Fediverse. It’s like the ‘default subreddits’ we used to have where mods sometimes would go on a power trip. Or in digg where Power Users started controlling the content. Too many of them run the same softwareI want it to spread. Like we have subreddits. Let’s have obscure instances similar to obscure subreddits. Don’t like content of an instance, block it and so on. /I know reddit doesn’t get much love these days but it’s the nearest example I could come up with.
(DIR) Post #AV2H8xjdJuivyT98q0 by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T06:39:12Z
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@Deus @osma @lethen @atomicpoet I'm not sure a comparison to Reddit works. A big difference is that users in the Fediverse interact across the instances, so you can move to another server and still see the same content. So a server is not like a subreddit where the content is limited to that instance.
(DIR) Post #AV2HYPPfYENH3VwTnk by lethen@mastodon.online
2023-04-26T06:04:58Z
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@atomicpoet @osma @anderspuck What is the problem?E-mail existed long before Gmail came along. Gmail has 40% marketshare and that didn't destroy email. Gmail, Microsoft and Yahoo combined host approx 80% of all emails, but the protocols underneath persist. We can still choose a different provider (or run our own email server) and send to each other without the need for an account on each server.
(DIR) Post #AV2HYPvZdbtYeSrxWy by OskarImKeller@fnordon.de
2023-04-26T06:41:05Z
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@lethen @atomicpoet @osma @anderspuck Sorry, but from what I am told by people running their own email servers is that it is getting increasingly more complicated and needs jumping through some extra hoops in order to have your emails delivered to accounts on the big commercial email providers. All in the name of "filtering potential spam" or similar.
(DIR) Post #AV2HYQW5Rr6OThx7RY by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T06:43:53Z
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@OskarImKeller @lethen @atomicpoet @osma I guess it depends on what you mean by running your own email server. Having a hosted solution on your own domain is pretty simple.
(DIR) Post #AV2Ijkj2kgcUIKyemW by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T06:57:06Z
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@anderspuck @Deus @lethen @atomicpoet Even more crucially, Reddit (and Digg) are centrally controlled entities where a single party determines who has moderation authority (or gets to delegate it). From that automatically follows that eventually that also delegated power authorities emerge.
(DIR) Post #AV2JBObAc4kbmGTZTM by JonnyFever@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-26T07:02:17.423725Z
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@atomicpoet @lethen @osma @anderspuck jews
(DIR) Post #AV2Jkzb92d5ifIRDLE by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T06:33:56Z
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@Deus @anderspuck @lethen @atomicpoet You do realize that obscure instances by definition will not appear in the top-10, but that obviously some instances will?It's much more important than top-1 doesn't gain majority, or that the top-1 owner doesn't also control the rest of the top-10, and that is best guaranteed by there being a top-2.
(DIR) Post #AV2Jl0HKVmpqm8Au5w by Deus@charcha.cc
2023-04-26T06:36:01.717095Z
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You do realize that obscure instances by definition will not appear in the top-10They will not. But heard of Federation? You start an instance and if one of those Top 10 instances decides to defederate with your instance, what happens? Who is controlling the Fediverse now? It’s again about ‘control’.
(DIR) Post #AV2Jl0wo1a0oqla1k8 by lethen@mastodon.online
2023-04-26T06:51:36Z
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@Deus @anderspuck @osma @atomicpoet Again, look at email. Gmail and Outlook “defederate” thousands of email-senders every day, if a sender is deemed a spammer they are blocked.This also happens to legit companies that try to send lots of emails that happen to be malformed. Then they have to go through a process to lower their spamscore. Nothing really dangerous about this 40 pound Gmail gorilla - the email eco system still works.
(DIR) Post #AV2Jl1a9fHUIonzS4m by Deus@charcha.cc
2023-04-26T06:52:45.992427Z
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So you are OK with ‘behemoth’ instances controlling (content in) the Fediverse?
(DIR) Post #AV2Jl27pe4QUVFkLZI by graf@poa.st
2023-04-26T07:08:40.376845Z
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@Deus @anderspuck @osma @lethen @atomicpoet we are the largest pleroma instance and we are the top defederated server -- more than 1000 other servers block us
(DIR) Post #AV2JqagSaKWZ8GarIm by graf@poa.st
2023-04-26T07:09:42.650958Z
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@Deus @anderspuck @osma @lethen @atomicpoet including everybody in this thread
(DIR) Post #AV2KPeFhJGryKonBPk by Will2Power@poa.st
2023-04-26T07:16:04.053023Z
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@graf @Deus @anderspuck @osma @lethen @atomicpoet Heavy is the head that wears the crown.
(DIR) Post #AV2gy1FkUuwIVYbvpg by Runyan50@newsie.social
2023-04-26T11:28:28Z
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@anderspuck @atomicpoet The decentralize part does seem important to me to prevent its destruction by the next billionaire who has enough money to buy it.
(DIR) Post #AV2i9C1msSZr45yLSq by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T11:41:48Z
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@Runyan50 It is important, but the existence of large servers is not in itself a threat.
(DIR) Post #AV2oH9ecBbnDkEJU12 by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T12:50:19Z
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@anderspuck @osma @atomicpoet I totally agree with your analysis, that most people don’t care about decentralisation, BUT that doesn’t make it irrelevant. Most people in russia don’t care about democracy… 😉 We should continue discussing and pushing for decentralisation in the fediverse and democracy in russia nonetheless!
(DIR) Post #AV2p4z4dnV2bPTFNwW by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T12:59:26Z
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@kjuh @osma It's not irrelevant, but decentralization is not the purpose of the social network. Social interaction is the purpose. And I'm not sure the existence of large servers is in itself a problem.
(DIR) Post #AV2pl5GbA9QEmMumwK by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T13:06:56Z
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@anderspuck @osma Well then I get the feeling this whole discussion is more about semantics, than anything else… Mastodon is one of many implementations of ActivitiPub, which all together make up the decentralised fediverse. This is only possible because decentralisation was a driving factor of the development and a central feature of ActivityPub. Decentralisation is the essence on which the fediverse is built.
(DIR) Post #AV2qGOluh2mOFZUhjE by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T13:12:38Z
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@kjuh @osma It's a discussion about whether it's a big problem that a phone app suggests a specific server as default for new users. Of course this will drive more users to mastodon.social, but I have a hard time seeing this as a threat to other servers.
(DIR) Post #AV2qxb1R1SPqhDLuim by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T13:20:32Z
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@anderspuck @osma If most users are on mastodon.social other instance have two choices: 1. defederate them and lose a huge share of the federated community with all the content they create, which could push more users into the centralised server(s) and make zhe fediverse irrelevant; or 2. cooperate with an entity, which works against their ideals (decentralisation and thus containment of power). That’s a huge problem. If you value decentralisation, that is.
(DIR) Post #AV2rfSj3EJt3hrfdhI by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T13:24:34Z
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@anderspuck @osma Ok, swap out mastodon.social for some other name and imagine that „main“ server falling into the hands of someone who does things, that are inacceptable to the (comparably small) rest of the fediverse.
(DIR) Post #AV2rfTKcybwdaPFeGe by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T13:28:30Z
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@kjuh @osma What could that unacceptable thing be? Not sure I understand.
(DIR) Post #AV2sP633sLpsh9n49Q by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T13:36:46Z
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@anderspuck @osma Doesn’t really matter. It could actually become a problem without any grossly inacceptable behaviour from the owner. If whoever runs such a huge instance decides to not moderate at all. Radical Free Speech, you know… The whole fediverse would be flooded with all kinds of innaceptable content (misinformation, child porn, violence) and the only choice would be to block the whole instance, including all valuable content on it, or just swallow it.
(DIR) Post #AV2tIzMLvp6qAOStma by ekknappenberger@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T13:46:31Z
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@anderspuck @atomicpoet i agree. Aside from the ever-present threat of capitalist appropriation, there really seems no compelling reason that is not merely ideological for this decentralization concernas to the problem of capitalism, i fail to see how decentralization will be of any help. the little musks of the world are equally able to buy out small community servers and 200million user platforms like twitter.
(DIR) Post #AV2v1ZiqCHSJdhoAFs by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T13:37:47Z
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@anderspuck @osma In a more secentralised fediverse, blocking problematic instances would be far easier and less disrupting to the whole community.
(DIR) Post #AV2v1aGs9kg5LFjLIe by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T14:06:07Z
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@kjuh True, there can be a moderation issue.
(DIR) Post #AV2v1bHyN99UUxFjea by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T13:39:13Z
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@anderspuck @osma Decentralisation means more resilience for the fediverse. Centralisation makes it more vulnerable to any attack.
(DIR) Post #AV2v8J24eDc9u70ucy by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T14:07:20Z
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@ekknappenberger @atomicpoet And as long as people can just move to another server and bring their contacts with them, it's not really an attractive target for capitalism.
(DIR) Post #AV2vUgrmiK6qC8sIIC by Runyan50@newsie.social
2023-04-26T14:11:23Z
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@anderspuck Sure, but the existence of billionaires does make them a threat.
(DIR) Post #AV2voS5HNrmG8jbrto by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T14:14:56Z
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@anderspuck Or that one instance could be hacked, or the owner could decide to just take it offline. It would be the one single point of failure for a huge part of the community. Which, when lost, would massively impact the (potentially smaller) rest of the decentralised fediverse.
(DIR) Post #AV2wP21pDmcW2nR8OO by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T14:20:51Z
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@kjuh That's all true, but it's a tradeoff. I think big servers from trusted providers is a part of making the Fediverse accessible for more people. And the server choice is a real obstacle in the onboarding process, so I don't mind too much that many people start on the big servers. Some will move on to smaller servers, once they get acquainted with the Fediverse.
(DIR) Post #AV2wW8ByheBLBhZSIy by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T14:22:44Z
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@anderspuck @kjuh Well this is true. However, there is a difference between purpose, constraints and performance criteria. The purpose of an anti-air defense system is to keep airspace safe from enemy attacks. The constraints of such a system include that it should not attack friendly targets, and its performance will be measured also by its cost per action, to name just one feature ok every dimension. Each dimension is important.
(DIR) Post #AV2wkWqDr4NtgpGBsG by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T14:25:25Z
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@osma @kjuh Yeah, I do think we are aligned here. It's not a huge problem that the Mastodon phone app now defaults new users to their own server.
(DIR) Post #AV2xKUw0QC2OCX7IUS by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T14:31:51Z
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@anderspuck Absolutely agree! 🤝 That tradeoff has to be balanced, discussed & checked. We need to appreciate risks and benefits of both approaches. The easiest solution is not necessarily the best & the (de)centralisation debate IMHO is important to keep this balance and to keep pushing for better solutions!
(DIR) Post #AV2xPwV5MNKz8v7ZSK by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T14:29:09Z
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@kjuh @anderspuck That's a pretty clear-cut situation. A "Nazi bar" gets blocked, and people who frequent it bear the cost of association with nazis.More problematic was if the people on the server are fine, but the server is changed to not play nicely with the rest of the network. One could expect such from a Meta server, for example. Introduce a proprietary feature that causes problems for others, use market weight to "force" people in to the walled garden.
(DIR) Post #AV2xPx5FBwGEx42Roe by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T14:32:32Z
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@osma @kjuh Yes, that's a much bigger issue – but the answer to that is to have a solid user base on e.g. Mastodon as counterweight – not to put up obstacles to any Mastodon server growing big.
(DIR) Post #AV2xZ3VefYVRUIjVHk by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T14:34:30Z
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@anderspuck @kjuh Not today, anyway, because Mastodon gGmbH doesn't actually exert that much power over the entire fedi.As for more proprietary apps.. I'm ancient enough to have been "here" when AOL joined the Internet and Usenet suddenly was filled with n00bs who had no concept of existing culture. I'm sure a few fedi users felt something similar past November.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
(DIR) Post #AV2xvzwm557v6CMEym by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T14:38:46Z
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@osma @kjuh And as long as Mastodon lets everyone install that exact same software on their own server, I just think it's good if they can get more people on board.
(DIR) Post #AV2y7xHHpYp8IOeaKO by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T14:40:53Z
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@anderspuck @osma Thing is, your own server with a handful of users isn’t so much of a social network, if a large part of the community suddenly disappears.
(DIR) Post #AV2yVQfMjPcW6Q6rMe by anderspuck@krigskunst.social
2023-04-26T14:45:05Z
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@kjuh @osma No, but we can't have the cake and eat it too. If we wan't non-technical people to also use the Fediverse, we have to accept that they don't want the hassle of picking a server. They just want something with a name they trust.
(DIR) Post #AV2yk7HR5emMK0v72m by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-04-26T14:47:38.942455Z
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@osma This “no absolute control over the entire network” is critical factor here, which is determined by the legal structure of the network. Right now an instance owner is a separate entity living in their own place, just as an owner of an email server or website, and then voluntarily “joining” a legally abstract network of “Fediverse” but most importantly bound by laws and customs of their place.Why this is critical? Because any legally centralised alternative will unavoidably be subject to laws of its country of establishment as a commercial entity, plus all the extrajudicial pressure extorted on them proportionally to their reach. Think of Discord or Slack, in both of which you can “create a server” with your domain and stuff, but you still operated by one brand.And any legally centralised enterprise with global users unavoidably ends up averaging their policies and community standards, usually driving them to the lowest common denominator between various legal systems, as seen on Facebook and Twitter.@anderspuck @atomicpoet
(DIR) Post #AV2zM26On3sDGapzk0 by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T14:54:09Z
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@kravietz @anderspuck @atomicpoet This is a key strength of fedi vs closed social networks. Each server functions in their own regulatory framework and has its own policies. There are certain commonalities, and a degree of pressure to agree with some policies at risk of defederation, but even so, far more variance and degree of freedom than would be allowed or afforded by a single commercial entity.
(DIR) Post #AV30DGWjtDkHLuXcx6 by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-04-26T15:04:01.521747Z
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@lethen This email analogy is very much to the point as it comes to the general concept of federated service gradually inhabited by large players. There’s one difference which I believe may create a potential for secondary oligopole: email is private while Fediverse is public.Publicity creates a communal and legal pressure on enforcing unified moderation standards across all instances, which essentially results in someone from US or Russia telling me what I absolutely must ban on my server in Poland (I specifically chose these two, as the list of banned taboos in both will be drastically different and largely exclusive).While for email we were able to create a simple binary spam/ham discriminator based on an uncontroversial concept of “unsolicited commercial email” and Bayesian analysis of email’s content abstracted from its semantics, the moderation in Fediverse goes very deep into the message’s semantics, culture, linguistics and someone’s subjective reception, including a hypothetical one.@atomicpoet @osma @anderspuck
(DIR) Post #AV30QfbPyGFmt47b7I by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-04-26T15:06:32.740456Z
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@kjuhMost people don’t care about decentralisation until they care 😉 It’s just like “most people” not caring about Terms of Service they click “yes”, or behavioural tracking or whatever dark patterns are in fashion today… as long as they are not impacted, but then it’s too late. @anderspuck @osma @atomicpoet
(DIR) Post #AV30ui23VBvf6suA9A by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T14:43:01Z
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@osma @anderspuck It’s never a problem until it suddenly is… So better contain or prevent problems *before* they become acute.
(DIR) Post #AV30uj4vbzoyM5FyGO by osma@mas.to
2023-04-26T14:59:41Z
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@kjuh What you might consider proactively containing a future problem is just as easily called premature overreaction to an imaginary problem with no supporting evidence. And that's the crux of this whole argument. Today, a simpler onboarding process will help fedi, and any issues it causes can be mitigated by having alternate, even more attractive onboarding processes.@anderspuck
(DIR) Post #AV30yXmLZ8mMT5Nyhk by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T15:12:46Z
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@anderspuck @osma What is „Mastodon“? If most of Mastodon is on mastodon.social and Meta buys mastodon.social, they own that counterweight!
(DIR) Post #AV31kSFRQqm3DNq9OS by kjuh@troet.cafe
2023-04-26T15:21:28Z
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@anderspuck @osma Discussing this topic might make people aware and help some to make an active, informed decision against a centralised mastodon.social server. Just pushing them there by default definitely won’t. I would propose approaching the problem from a different angle: enterprises, clubs, organisations and public institutions should run their own instances and actively invite their target audience to join them.