Post AUyKSusr9YuS9YpLcG by michael@mastodon.sinax.be
(DIR) More posts by michael@mastodon.sinax.be
(DIR) Post #AUyHo4glash4mWZNse by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-04-24T08:27:58Z
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Daily standups and biweekly cycles are the embodiment of the assembly line mentality. They are based on the belief that you must slice and dice development into fixed parts and micro manage "human resources" at each step. Of course it does not solve anything.
(DIR) Post #AUyIGlWJwOO9jIMf5M by gausby@mastodon.xyz
2023-04-24T08:32:46Z
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@galdor All I remember from Daily Standup was the extra task of making what ever I did seem grander than it really was—to say "I thought about the problem" felt like letting the stakeholders and the team down; it was much better to say "I saved the world and ensured that everyone can have ice cream!"—heavens forbid that the report would be "I tried something and it didn't work"…
(DIR) Post #AUyImJrCKNJFCTAxBg by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-04-24T08:38:52Z
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@gausby I had two managers in two different companies tell me that daily standups was not for developers, it was for them to be up-to-date with what is happening. They seemed oblivious to the fact that knowing what their team is doing without micro managing them was precisely their job.It is just micro management, nothing new.The boasting part is expected: if you're forcing me into useless meetings where everyone is going to listen to me, of course I'm going to make myself look good. Since I'm going to be evaluated on it anyway…
(DIR) Post #AUyJaIvG4mvemTuSGW by michael@mastodon.sinax.be
2023-04-24T08:47:53Z
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@galdor @gausby I replaced the daily standup of my team with daily updates via team chat. Every developer simply posts what they worked on yesterday, what they're working on today and what blockers they are experiencing.Nobody has a need to boast or embellish things, just developers giving updates and seeing if they can help another developer out. Team leads and PM's can follow what is going on, especially blockers but they don't have a mandate to micro manage or interfere.
(DIR) Post #AUyJp7HJeS250jI264 by gausby@mastodon.xyz
2023-04-24T08:50:35Z
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@galdor I once did a half-solution because the time constraints didn't allow me to solve the actual problem. At the stand-up, I said I had made a solution for the problem but that it was a hack that would work for now, but the issue should be revisited when we had more time.That never happened. Instead, one of my colleagues started bragging that he had “hacked” something, and the manager started asking, “Can't you just make a hack?” when someone said they needed more time for a solution.
(DIR) Post #AUyKSsiVD5RHQry3CS by michael@mastodon.sinax.be
2023-04-24T08:50:38Z
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@gausby @galdor The value of such a daily update (IMO) is that people have a structured way to be kept up to date, and a way to signal they are blocked in their work. Team leads and PM's can get a more detailed update on how things are going that they can't get from Jira.
(DIR) Post #AUyKStl1LD30ey9ZlQ by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-04-24T08:57:46Z
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@michael @gausby Daily updates via team chat are way better (at least because they are async), but still highly infantilizing. I had more autonomy as an intern.I'm curious about this way to "signal they are blocked in their work". Surely grown ups are able to communicate without having precise slots allocated for this purpose. Unless of course you're actively hiring 12 years old employees ;)
(DIR) Post #AUyKSusr9YuS9YpLcG by michael@mastodon.sinax.be
2023-04-24T08:51:33Z
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@galdor @gausby That being said, it takes a certain mindset for TL's and PM's to not interfere and let developers do what they do. I've know managers who feel a need to talk to developers and feel they are in control. IMO a good TL or PM sets a direction (ie: we need to achieve this with X and Y constraints), and simply let developers reach the destination.
(DIR) Post #AUyKdJNGx7tR0O0jR2 by gausby@mastodon.xyz
2023-04-24T08:55:05Z
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@michael @galdor I like the idea of communicating what I am doing, but I find the daily checking a bit forced. Perhaps forced can be good for “structure,” but my current thoughts are kind of “microblogging” the progress. Just inform people when you are done. Just inform people when you are stuck. Perhaps reach out to me if I haven't said anything in a while; maybe pair program with me or talk about the problem if I am stuck.
(DIR) Post #AUyKdJxQmgogoWvbnM by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-04-24T08:59:39Z
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@gausby @michael This is the right way. Tell about your progress when it makes sense to do so. Communicate with the people you collaborate with when you need it.Common sense is in rare supply nowadays, everyon one wants a magical process to follow without thinking too much.
(DIR) Post #AUyL7tWN7lk3neqlqi by gausby@mastodon.xyz
2023-04-24T09:04:44Z
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@galdor @michael Of course, one can sometimes benefit from contemplating a problem for a little while—this can be a good learning experience. A senior developer can benefit from asking the junior what they have done to solve the problem. It requires the wisdom of when to ask and when to think about the problem.
(DIR) Post #AUyMbs6L4GXa2PX0Xw by michael@mastodon.sinax.be
2023-04-24T09:21:46Z
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@galdor @gausby I don't see it as infantilizing, it doesn't take away any automomy. The sole goal is to keep everyone up to date. You can work autonomous but also as part of a team. I don't think anyone in my team sees them as a means to control what they're doing.You're absolutely right that everyone should be able to communicate clearly, unfortunately I don't think that's the reality for everyone :-)
(DIR) Post #AUyNBHNx3PrMafeZF2 by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-04-24T09:28:13Z
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@michael @gausby Pretty much no one need to be up-to-date with what everyone else is doing daily, this is a huge amount of irrelevant information.Working as part of a team has nothing to do with this level of micro control, but clearly I'm not going to convince you :)Ultimately managers love this warm fuzzy feeling of having everyone reporting to them as often as possible. But feeling like you are on top of thing and actually being on top of things are two very different things.
(DIR) Post #AUyO7tZHFYB7o8tvQ8 by gausby@mastodon.xyz
2023-04-24T09:38:45Z
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@galdor @michael Perhaps the “infantilizing” aspect comes from the fact that a programmer already has multiple places where they report what they are doing, such as git commits and time trackers—and perhaps because the constant check-ins leave a sense of “the programmer has a poor judgment of how to use time, so we need to ask them what they are doing so we (who has good judgment) can stop them before they waste time.” There is no trust in what is being done and how it is done.
(DIR) Post #AUyOOxDuubjm4H2o0u by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-04-24T09:41:53Z
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@gausby @michael Correct. Software engineers are not children, they are supposed to be information workers organizing themselves and collaborating with others to work towards a goal.But most managers want control, so control it is. And unsurprisingly, the more you infantilize people, the more they act as children. Sad to see.
(DIR) Post #AUyU7waEdbx6svktuq by michael@mastodon.sinax.be
2023-04-24T10:45:34Z
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@galdor @gausby I'm not trying to convince you or want to be convinced :-) I think it's a highly subjective thing and the team itself is in the best place to judge. In my case, a team of 5, everyone is happy with our way of working (which grew out of the feedback of the team itself).
(DIR) Post #AUyUMj2bGqufEA4UIi by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-04-24T10:48:43Z
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@michael @gausby I'd give you that: if it works for you and your team is genuinely happy with it, then there is no problem.