Post AUsBUa4VRE83eIEf7w by folkerschamel@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by folkerschamel@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AUr8B5BFZZiXJpRP1c by feditips@mstdn.social
2023-04-20T21:33:21Z
7 likes, 29 repeats
The official Mastodon app is doing something new which is potentially very dangerous to the existence of Mastodon and the Fediverse.The official Mastodon app now prompts users to join mastodon.social by default, when previously it prompted them to pick a server. If you're new this may sound harmless, but let me explain.The entire point of this place is to be a social network spread out on as many servers as possible (the reasons are here: https://fedi.tips/why-is-the-fediverse-on-so-many-separate-servers/).(1/6)
(DIR) Post #AUr8B5q180KLMGVxZI by feditips@mstdn.social
2023-04-20T21:33:41Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
There is technically still an option on the official app to "pick my own server", but it's much harder to read or notice, and new users will probably click the mastodon.social button without even thinking about the other button.Mastodon.social just passed 1 million registered users about a week ago, out of a total network of approx 7 to 11 million users (dependiing on how you count them).The official app is by far the most commonly used way to sign up on Mastodon and the Fediverse.(2/6)
(DIR) Post #AUr8B6Nh6nGX2iGr3o by feditips@mstdn.social
2023-04-20T21:33:54Z
3 likes, 3 repeats
For the first time ever, the most common way to sign up on the Fediverse is now directing people to sign up on one specific server, rather than making them choose.This will make mastodon.social grow even more quickly than it has before, and future waves of new people may end up mostly there. It's very plausible this one server could become the majority of the Fediverse in the near future.If that happens, the Fediverse would no longer be protected from buyouts by nasty people.(3/6)
(DIR) Post #AUr8B6w52wlslMMJeq by feditips@mstdn.social
2023-04-20T21:34:04Z
4 likes, 3 repeats
Yes, signing up on one server is much easier for people who are used to centralised services like Twitter, Facebook etc.But as we have seen from Twitter, such a setup leaves you at the mercy of Musk-type takeovers. For-profit social networks do not like federation, they hate it as they see it as competition. It is very likely that a commercial takeover of a majority server would defederate it, to prevent people leaving and simplify its maintenance.(4/6)
(DIR) Post #AUr8B7ZQgeFMjOljzU by feditips@mstdn.social
2023-04-20T21:34:54Z
2 likes, 3 repeats
This is not an attack on Eugen, I don't do those. Most of what @Gargron does is amazing, the Fedi owes him a great deal, and the fact he turned down large sums of VC money recently shows great integrity.But eventually most people in that position will crack. Ever larger sums of money can make even the nicest people sell out.If most of the Fediverse is on mastodon.social, it WILL receive more takeover bids. If it grows even further, these bids will become even higher.(5/6)
(DIR) Post #AUr8B85Km1leKLhDii by feditips@mstdn.social
2023-04-20T21:35:12Z
5 likes, 4 repeats
So, what can be done?1. Tell new people to use third party apps, they are better anyway and have more features. More info at https://fedi.tips/which-apps-can-i-use-should-i-use-the-official-app-or-a-third-party-app/2. Tell people to sign up on the website. Mastodon's official site at https://joinmastodon.org is still asking people to choose a server, and is very professionally laid out. (I've also got my own amateurish effort at https://fedi.garden.)3. If you're comfortable using github, give a thumbs up at https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon-ios/issues/1023(6/6)
(DIR) Post #AUr8H7oWh7MJDwh3AW by seth@s3th.me
2023-04-20T21:37:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips I feel like this is the same pains we feel in the WordPress space. OS let's forking happen. This might happen. Who knows. But thanks for a great thread.
(DIR) Post #AUr8zczw78pqgIFcUy by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-20T21:46:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips Oh wow, that is very sad. There should probably be an artificial cap on the size of the server if technically they can grow so much because someone is skilled in running it well on one server.
(DIR) Post #AUr98qU9L1HV7LmJMm by CrazyMyra@mastodon.social
2023-04-20T21:39:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips That's a change that must be reversed. We need the strength of diversity. (Yes, I'm on mastodon.social, but I joined when it was smallish.)
(DIR) Post #AUr98r9cqoSTBzBR0y by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-20T21:47:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CrazyMyra @feditips should we encourage people to move away from mastodon.social?
(DIR) Post #AUr9X16ZVQ6J0JH9EG by alan@kolektiva.social
2023-04-20T21:52:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeena @CrazyMyra @feditips idk I've just been noticing most people I block because I see their bad takes hail from that instance but that's likely at least in part due to the size.
(DIR) Post #AUr9o8dCmBdFGlhgtk by CrazyMyra@mastodon.social
2023-04-20T21:54:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeena @feditips I don't think it's necessary. I think the point is closer to: don't make ANY instance the default for all new accounts, especially not the biggest existing one
(DIR) Post #AUrBXvdHXNcCEI8cLo by louis@emacs.ch
2023-04-20T22:14:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips Eugen literally said in one of his recent big interviews, that instance diversity is "historical" and he sees no alternative to default servers. Of course, his default servers.When I read it, it was clear to me in which direction Mastodon is heading. The app is just the beginning.Mastodon's decentralization is key to safeguarding free speech and preventing greedy centralization (which is what happens right in front of us now). Central servers can easily become susceptible to censorship, surveillance, and data abuse. By supporting Mastodon's diverse community of servers, we can ensure that power remains decentralized and accessible to all. Let's prioritize decentralization over greed! #Mastodon
(DIR) Post #AUrG9OBwiZBXKqTCTo by Polychrome@poly.cybre.city
2023-04-20T23:06:27.565941Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips here we see Gargron trying to be look very important.
(DIR) Post #AUrGJgAwi1TQ0UuPUu by Polychrome@poly.cybre.city
2023-04-20T23:08:17.116511Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips here we see Gargron trying to look very important.
(DIR) Post #AUrIKP8rizcfNOPRMe by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-20T23:30:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CrazyMyra @feditips I'd agree that it's not necessary but I still think encouraging people to move to other instances would bring more good than bad.
(DIR) Post #AUrIbFRP2umGDD6zCa by Jonathanglick@mstdn.social
2023-04-20T22:33:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CrazyMyra @jeena Sorry to be dense, but why not? Yes, we need to make it easy to migrate from mastodon.social if/when people want to, probably even encourage it. I think we’re all agreed on that. But as a first step for the millions of people looking to get started with Mastodon, surely this most directly addresses their number one complaint: why and how should I pick a server?
(DIR) Post #AUrIbG2GpqGg3YMQfQ by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-20T23:33:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Jonathanglick @CrazyMyra I looked into it how you can move between instances some time ago and you can bring your followers to the new instance and you can export your posts, but you can't import them into the new instance for some reason.
(DIR) Post #AUrJmJX2HCvi2UaRu4 by controlfreak@hackers.town
2023-04-20T22:37:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips Those new users may also not understand that x % of the verse may not be seeing them eitherIt's fair to demand a little less abuse of power from a single platform in the fedi that is making some pathing decisions that unfortunately align with monetisation and data brokering. That hasn't shown to be intent to date, but again, it tracks.Mastodon should be assisting better the informing users about the wider sphere it inhabits and not narrowing and islanding onboarding. It's a bit exhausting for users and volunteers with a less captive audience to handle that education.Seems simple to have a "go choose a server and here are the benefits. If you can't right now try it out here and here are the drawbacks". This frames the experience much better and honestly than just hoarding onbaords. Fair concern that the same people who reckon the official app is the only way are clicking right into an island that they also reckon is the only way.
(DIR) Post #AUrJmKTskQ08z07Rcu by otto@hackers.town
2023-04-20T22:41:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@controlfreak @feditips I think we all knew this was coming when Eugen doubled down on his "local timelines never mattered" bullshit a while back. I am not surprised, but remain disappointed. This mirrors a lot of the islanding and fracturing that happened in the early days of irc and then chat applications (Rest in... obscurity? XMPP)
(DIR) Post #AUrJmL5oTOLIsdrjkW by thegibson@hackers.town
2023-04-20T23:11:57Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@otto @controlfreak @feditips
(DIR) Post #AUrL9GSXxvtl7nzjeK by charliebrownau@poa.st
2023-04-21T00:02:29.268009Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips No different from the ((( OFFICIAL ))) list excluding servers it doesn't like
(DIR) Post #AUrNOPuVJFH2gkQNSC by stux@mstdn.social
2023-04-21T00:27:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips I also saw this indeedAnd only thing I wondered was..Why…
(DIR) Post #AUrOXz5Zz9WMLyjNE8 by Jonathanglick@mstdn.social
2023-04-21T00:40:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeena @CrazyMyra I think we have to make it easy, fast and ‘safe’ to migrate your entire data set.
(DIR) Post #AUrOfBw8cGZIE8ke4O by leftsidestory@mstdn.social
2023-04-21T00:41:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stux @feditips Mastodon definitely wants to pick up more users I guess. Instead of explaining what an instance is, the simplest way for the majority of users is to pick up an instance and get on with it. I wonder if it’s possible for the official app to randomly suggest instances every time a new user signs up, instead of recommending one instance.
(DIR) Post #AUrRoNvBj6bZrjNllg by csepp@merveilles.town
2023-04-21T01:17:04Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@jeena @CrazyMyra @feditips Yes. Should have been doing it for years. Massive instances are in no one's interest, because an instance you can't afford to defederate from can do anything to its rules and change owners any number of times, and no one will be able to hold it accountable.Monopolies are always bad.
(DIR) Post #AUrat9ed67ZkeVzEBM by LeslieVS1965@mas.to
2023-04-21T02:58:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeena @CrazyMyra @feditips and why shouldn't we? I joined .social because I'm on an Android device and it was the easiest thing to do last November when I saw the way the bird site was heading.
(DIR) Post #AUrrH403N3tLKeQiDw by vegafjord@freeradical.zone
2023-04-21T06:01:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@seth What does OS stand for?
(DIR) Post #AUrtjgHapU4o55PKDY by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-21T06:29:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Jonathanglick @CrazyMyra I agree but I'm not sure why it's still not possible to import the ActivityPub export
(DIR) Post #AUrtn0DTApBClx3wOG by Sean@liberal.city
2023-04-21T00:50:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Jonathanglick @CrazyMyra @jeena the default is too big of a barrier to expect people to distribute themselves away from whatever is good enough. When majority of people open their newly bought computer and IE was the default, the vast majority of users simply kept IE as their browser even if they could have switched to another browser, and when EU regulators put an end to that making windows allow a choice between 5-6 browsers then the monopoly ended
(DIR) Post #AUrtn10OEwJNDfx0ds by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-21T06:30:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sean @Jonathanglick @CrazyMyra if it worked with the browser then it probably will work with the Mastodon servers too.
(DIR) Post #AUruoPl3nMmSEU0m0W by gunchleoc@mastodon.scot
2023-04-20T22:11:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips How about replacing the mastodon.social button with a "random server" button to put them on any general-purpose instance that has open registrations? That should spread people around more @Gargron
(DIR) Post #AUruptNr8IssP9rXc0 by juneb@mstdn.social
2023-04-21T00:14:24Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips One great solution would be a rotating server suggestion based on a dynamic independent list of open servers. Users would get their easy choice, but they'd be distributed. Should be really easy to implement.
(DIR) Post #AUs0IyNO9L0c3cKW6i by lamp@berserker.town
2023-04-21T07:43:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips I like this. Having people spread out thinly on so many different servers makes this complicated and inconsistent, and is overwhelming for new users. I think it's best to have few large servers.
(DIR) Post #AUs3Hk1ALeBh6A2Wxc by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-21T08:16:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@m @Jonathanglick a better solution is to drop the people who react like that from your replies so the don't see it anymore.
(DIR) Post #AUs3ti2IAHnHxKffX6 by zleap@qoto.org
2023-04-21T08:23:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips I agree with what you are saying here, Perhaps the reasoning is to address the confusion people were reporting. Perhaps something like "you can move data to another instance at a later date" needs to be added. So people are aware they can do that.
(DIR) Post #AUs57ECRzXslQfQtOK by MicroSFF@mastodon.art
2023-04-21T08:37:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeena @Jonathanglick @CrazyMyra I'm not hugely familiar with Mastodon architecture, but I am an experienced programmer, and I assume:Importing them would have to create a copy every post on your new server, causing a sudden burst of possibly thousands of posts in one go.It might not be possible or easily done to back-date posts, so you would get them all art once, flooding the timeline.All replies were to the original post, you can't carry those over to the copy.
(DIR) Post #AUs5HwQwO20hVtJqAC by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-21T08:39:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@MicroSFF @Jonathanglick @CrazyMyra why can't you? Also no need to push out the imported posts as new through ActivityPub, juts import them into the Mastodon database.
(DIR) Post #AUs7oYeq0OdfEqV2uW by critical@blob.cat
2023-04-21T09:07:47.014788Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips the same way Matrix and Element went :blobcatcry2:
(DIR) Post #AUs8lNynLkaPCqsyqe by folkerschamel@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T09:16:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@seth @feditips It's not pain, it is user friendliness.🙂
(DIR) Post #AUs9mZT2DxBj4w9wIa by troed@masto.sangberg.se
2023-04-21T09:29:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Jonathanglick @CrazyMyra @jeena I agree. Let's get code up and running that makes switching servers (while keeping everything) a one-click option.Having to "select a server" is the biggest obstacle for people to join Mastodon. After they've joined I'm sure the understanding of federation will come.
(DIR) Post #AUs9wrwAPNZzG2hDHc by CrazyMyra@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T09:31:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@troed @Jonathanglick @jeena That's what I hope. Simply growing one instance isn't good
(DIR) Post #AUsBUYDeKGFpu4Uw6K by CrazyMyra@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T02:31:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Jonathanglick @jeena agreed.I'd prefer to see - if it's feasible - a "mastodon.temporary" instance, where newcomers could set up and learn about choosing a server without that being an original barrier. They'd have 1-3 months to migrate their accounts (full data) somewhere else or their accounts would be deleted. (Not a deplatforming "punishment" as they'd be free to start again.)
(DIR) Post #AUsBUYkyKMuRZQ5Y2a by hughster@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T08:28:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CrazyMyra @Jonathanglick @jeena I'm not sure that'd be a good idea. Many non-techy new users may be happy staying exactly where they are and could actually be pushed off the platform if their accounts are force-deleted.
(DIR) Post #AUsBUZTzcyvDp39VDM by CrazyMyra@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T08:48:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hughster @Jonathanglick @jeena It would have to be clearly explained from the start that it's a temporary arrangement. A "free trial" that's exactly that - a set ending date and no obligation either way. It's only an idea and I'm open to better ones. I think the new practice of defaulting to an already big and influential instance is a poor solution.
(DIR) Post #AUsBUZXBR7TRywe3Bg by hughster@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T08:45:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CrazyMyra @Jonathanglick @jeena (…Which is made more likely by the migration process being pretty destructive, i.e. losing all your previous posts and all the people you follow.)
(DIR) Post #AUsBUa4VRE83eIEf7w by folkerschamel@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T09:23:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CrazyMyra @hughster @Jonathanglick @jeena I understand new users complaining about the complexity. I don't understand users compaining about lack of server diversity who live on the biggest instance.😉
(DIR) Post #AUsBUabpRKmfJdpH4C by CrazyMyra@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T09:28:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@folkerschamel @hughster @Jonathanglick @jeena Check my home page for when I joined and then fuck off out of my mentions
(DIR) Post #AUsBUbBdIDQL6gZrsG by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-21T09:48:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@CrazyMyra @folkerschamel @hughster @Jonathanglick Oh wow, if this is the style of discussion on the biggest instance then perhaps it's time for me to block it ...
(DIR) Post #AUsBYx104pLdxtgBmq by hughster@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T09:49:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeena @CrazyMyra @feditips I'm not sure all the encouragement in the world at the moment will make up for the shortcomings in the instance moving process, i.e. losing everyone you've followed (unless you're techy enough to work around that) and all your posts (no workaround possible). I'm pretty tech-savvy and this is the main reason I have no interest in moving, even if I don't like the idea of this server getting too big.
(DIR) Post #AUsBf0MaXcR25RfE00 by hughster@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T09:50:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeena 😢
(DIR) Post #AUsBiA8sdjvhHgl2qO by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-21T09:51:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hughster @feditips this is the main reason why I chose to set up my own server from day one.
(DIR) Post #AUsC6yaMkDlggJRiDI by MicroSFF@mastodon.art
2023-04-21T09:55:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeena @Jonathanglick @CrazyMyra You can't carry over replies from others, because you don't own those post. If you import the post I reply to now, my reply will still be to the original.
(DIR) Post #AUsCGCYMBO28biuBUm by hughster@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T09:57:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeena Fair enough, although I can't see that many Twitter refugees doing that…
(DIR) Post #AUsCPBlkT0hmmYSFCS by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-21T09:59:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hughster yeah I totally understand that most of the people don't really care about their own content but my background is in the #IndieWeb ;)
(DIR) Post #AUsDKTrDt5cXO8KlsG by CrazyMyra@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T10:09:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeena @folkerschamel @hughster @Jonathanglick Just clutch your pearls and block me. I don't speak for all mastodon.social users
(DIR) Post #AUsH1txP1cDQeKcYIC by didek@101010.pl
2023-04-21T10:51:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips If they want to do it, there should be a server selection menu with radio buttons and mastodon.social selected by default.Not a whole separate big colorful privilaged button on main menu 🤥.
(DIR) Post #AUsHGj3BrFtnAPOeP2 by stuart7757q@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T06:26:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips I recently joined Mastodon and was entirely unaware of this. Is it possible to review and change to a different server or am I stuck on social?
(DIR) Post #AUsHGjcdjSFswLyxeq by didek@101010.pl
2023-04-21T10:53:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stuart7757q @feditips Yes, you can.There is a migration option in settings.On new account on the bottom of posts there will be "continue" button that links to old account.
(DIR) Post #AUsLigSFVCoP2bhkHo by alphaCarbon33@noagendasocial.com
2023-04-21T11:43:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips posts 2-5 are completely extraneous.
(DIR) Post #AUsLjzQGSuLy9uOnwG by alphaCarbon33@noagendasocial.com
2023-04-21T11:43:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips posts 2-6 are completely extraneous.
(DIR) Post #AUsNC0zKL1X54oj6vY by Avocadoontoast@mastodon.nz
2023-04-21T00:36:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips Bad take, making signing up easier will only make mastodon grow.
(DIR) Post #AUsNC1kpUPWvS8x2y8 by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-21T12:00:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Avocadoontoast @feditips why does mastodon need to grow by any means? I like the size already
(DIR) Post #AUsNXoT9Z18CcY4VU0 by gamergaming@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T11:15:34Z
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@feditips I've tried to get into mastadon a few times now, and always got overwhelmed by the amount of servers and the lack of one popular general one. If you want more users to use mastadon, you have to have one server that people can join if they are unsure where to go.
(DIR) Post #AUsNXpAkwu0enmTKRk by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2023-04-21T12:03:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gamergaming @feditips no you don't, you can also just force them to a random server.
(DIR) Post #AUsOsF08jBn2eco0LQ by MaryPot@masto.ai
2023-04-21T12:18:51Z
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@jeena @Jonathanglick @CrazyMyra I wasn't aware I could export my posts. Does that include whole conversations I have taken part in, or just what I posted as an original post?As it was, I was just going to leave my old account where it is so I could go back if there were something I needed to reference.How do I move as much as possible to the new server?
(DIR) Post #AUsRwsi5KiaKpVGUEK by Homebrewandhacking@mastodon.ie
2023-04-21T10:40:45Z
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@folkerschamel Some user friendliness in the user sign up process is good. I suggest that you read the thread again.Twitter got bought. If someone offered me a mere billion dollars I'd sell Mastodon.social were it mine to sell.$1,000,000,0000. Convert that to your local currency and think about your family and friends and how you could make the world a better place with that money.I'd do it and not even feel guilty TBPH.@seth @feditips
(DIR) Post #AUsRwtLmx6LOodqC7E by m0xee@social.librem.one
2023-04-21T11:53:50Z
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@Homebrewandhacking But won't the federated nature make it even easier to migrate elsewhere in case of Musk-like buyout? It made people come here from Twitter in waves and this time they have to learn how to use new software, have to pick an instance, have no way to keep their followers… In case mastodon.social get new admins, people should already know other instances they like, and they can keep their social connections.@folkerschamel @seth @feditips
(DIR) Post #AUsRwtyQdRFikTv3LM by m0xee@social.librem.one
2023-04-21T11:57:34Z
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@Homebrewandhacking I don't even think that such buyout is reasonable. Had someone done something similar to what Musk does to Twitter to any particular Fedi instance, people'd be out of the door in a matter of week if not less.On the other hand, picking your Fedi instance when you don't even know what Fedi is VERY confusing — what I did is went with the first one run by the company I trusted and I still like it although I started hosting my own one since then🤷 @folkerschamel @seth @feditips
(DIR) Post #AUsRwuTclSCqJEVxy4 by Homebrewandhacking@mastodon.ie
2023-04-21T11:12:24Z
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@folkerschamel @seth @feditips I mean hell... you know what else appears "user friendly" allowing users to pick short, dictionary names like "password" as passwords.Same vibes.
(DIR) Post #AUsRwuZeP31ibvKmMS by Homebrewandhacking@mastodon.ie
2023-04-21T12:17:25Z
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@m0xee I understand where you're coming from (4.1k posts this month is quite impressive, you clearly like it here).This is my third account, so I don't disagree that the UX is not great.I think that onboarding people into .social is contrary to good decentralised practice. Where are the extra moderators coming from? With so many users, Mastodon.social _already_ had complaints of bad moderation.This looks guaranteed to lead to it's defederation.@folkerschamel @seth @feditips
(DIR) Post #AUsRwvHxkITKpM4AQi by m0xEE@breloma.m0xee.net
2023-04-21T12:53:18.451404Z
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@Homebrewandhacking No, not in one month, I'm not that fruitful, 4k total, in 2 years probably 😅Stats might be skewered because this instance uses an old version of Masto.But I do like it here! I'm all into what a lot of people here are in, like cats and obscure computer architectures…And even for me it wasn't easy to make my mind up. While I was reading stuff on Twitter a lot, I never had an account I was looking for some alternative that is more serious about privacy. In fact it was ProtonMail that pointed me in the right direction.They had a Mastodon account (they have left since, but now returned) so I realized that a decentralized alternative exists, then I realized that "social" thing by Purism uses the same protocol and I said: "Why not try it?"Again, I am tech-savvy, I'm online well since the 90-ies and even for me making a choice of instance (will this one really be the right one for me?) was a little confusing — self hosting the thing you know nothing about is out of the question. A lot of people used centralized media all their life (doesn't necessary mean they are bad people) — I can't even imagine what it's like for them.I do agree that funneling everyone to a single instance is bad practice and something is to be improved. Still, making a person pick something without giving them a taste of it first and not giving them time to hang around is confusing. Some might thing that it's a good filter to keep outsiders away, but I don't think that way at all, Fedi deserves to keep it spirit, but it doesn't mean it has to be an obscure closed circle. On top of that, who does it keep out? I don't consider myself not smart or knowledgeable enough, I wasn't born into the Web 2.0 things, I lived through them (and didn't like them), but I signed up not long ago and I remember quite well that even I had doubts.@m0xee @folkerschamel @seth @feditips
(DIR) Post #AUsXCwTtZzECvi6bnU by kev@fosstodon.org
2023-04-21T13:21:54Z
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@m0xee in theory one could just migrate away from .social is there was a buyout.BUT...what if the Fedi grew to, say, 20 million users and 10 million of those were on .social. That buyout happens and the new owners decide to pull a Truth Social and defederate from the rest of the fedi. Even if one migrates from .social, their network would be EXTREMELY hampered and, let's be honest, no-one would migrate.All hypothetical, of course. 😄 @Homebrewandhacking @folkerschamel @seth @feditips
(DIR) Post #AUsXCx8f8Pq0y9BALA by m0xee@social.librem.one
2023-04-21T13:33:12Z
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@kev Oh, I see, so it's about the hypothetical situation when buyout happens and new owner decides to defederate…It might seem that such a decision is a no brainer, obvious choice, but… it's not!Defederation is not a one-way thing, not only those outside lose connections to those inside, it's the other way around too.And those on .social might migrate not out of principle, but because most of people they had followed aren't there anymore.@Homebrewandhacking @folkerschamel @seth @feditips
(DIR) Post #AUsXCxevCTdsaCGvce by m0xEE@breloma.m0xee.net
2023-04-21T13:52:16.185571Z
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@kev Sorry for switching to other account, but the 500 character limit on Librem Social drives me nuts 😅Of course I'm making my judgements based on my personal experience and preferences. I might not be the average user, but I follow a significant number of people and not a lot of them are on big instances, and very few on my own one.Likewise, some might, but don't see a problem with Element having matrix.org by default, those who want extra privacy will self host their own instances and they have other incentives to do so, like hosting bridges, but at least everyone has some sane default for getting the taste of it and for some, who don't want anything more than that, that might remain a good choice.Then again, we're only speculating — hard to say what defederating a large server of decentralized media would be like, I don't think it would be anything like Twitter. After all, decentralization was one of the original selling points, that is the part why a lot of the userbase chose it in the first place (not the larger user base) so losing this point might have way more consequences.Signal might be a good example of this, I know it was federated at some point, but then they've got rid of it. Unfortunately I have never used Signal and know nothing about how that happened and how users took it.And, like I already said in my other reply, I'm not advocating funneling everyone to a particular server, having a curated list of approved instances (with short descriptions of how their community might be different) looks like a better choice, even if masto.social remains the default.@Homebrewandhacking @folkerschamel @seth @feditips m0xee@librem.one
(DIR) Post #AUsandb33RpMwAdmL2 by hszakher@mastodon.world
2023-04-21T12:44:01Z
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@Homebrewandhacking @folkerschamel @seth @feditips how about making the "default server" to be a one from an internal list of servers. so instead of having it fixed on mastodon.social, it can be one of several servers that the app picks a different one at random (or based on other criteria to balance the load ...etc). this way you achieve " easy onboarding" without getting everyone on one massive server
(DIR) Post #AUsaneouVOVgjS8MaG by 74@101010.pl
2023-04-21T14:32:32Z
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@hszakher @Homebrewandhacking @folkerschamel @seth @feditips The idea of "one default server" is based on a presumption of a "generic user", who actually does not exists.However, we are not able to determine the profile of the potential new user, and to choose a good server for her?him? we do not know even a gender of the user...There is a trait of any human, which can be obvious, though. These are the an inhabited country/region and used language(s).There are already reasonably large national/regional/local instances for Canada, San Francisco, Latin America, majority of European countries (including nations of UK and Spain and German regions), Egypt, (South) Africa, China, South Korea, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.News users from there parts of the world may be as well directed to their "national servers", which would satisfy their need to go to the relevant community, and at the same time, decentralise the Mastodon part of fediverse away from the "official" server.
(DIR) Post #AUsfDoDkZmhREXThZo by shuro@friends.deko.cloud
2023-04-21T06:23:28Z
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As someone who tried promoting Fedi among non-geeky people I can tell two things:- When you tell about new service a very large group of people immediately tries to find it in their smartphone app store. It has to be obvious and they expect this app to be their main or only interface. Not having "the app" is showstopper.- having to choose servers is confusing AF and too many just don't want to bother. Some drop out at this point, some (far lesser group) will choose randomly and end up on some kiwifarms or even decent but wrong choice of server. E.g. once someone I knew eventually got expelled from German server because he posted in another language which annoyed server audience and made moderators nervous.So just a random picker like @leftsidestory suggested won't work. It has to be either complicated or dealing with a curated pool of stable and well-maintained general purpose servers.If we want "normal people" then this is the reality and Mastodon team adapts. Making things different would mean limiting access.
(DIR) Post #AUsfDom8VwCmxBZAAq by wrongthink@cdrom.tokyo
2023-04-21T15:21:39.344851Z
3 likes, 3 repeats
@shuro @feditips @leftsidestory @stux When you tell about new service a very large group of people immediately tries to find it in their smartphone app store. It has to be obvious and they expect this app to be their main or only interface. Not having “the app” is showstopper.I have no desire to interact with people like that.
(DIR) Post #AUsfVdnm3J5S8FpZdg by Zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-21T15:25:20.777953Z
4 likes, 2 repeats
@wrongthink @stux @leftsidestory @feditips @shuro "Gatekeeping" is just a word for a functioning immune system. Anyone who is against gatekeeping wants to give every community on the internet AIDS.
(DIR) Post #AUsj1TgfUeQptKNbfM by alexq@eldritch.cafe
2023-04-21T16:04:39Z
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@jeena @CrazyMyra @feditips yes, we collectively should.
(DIR) Post #AUsktjigCWuNCskzWS by shuro@friends.deko.cloud
2023-04-21T16:25:40Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Well, obviously it is not what Mastodon team wants.I am with them by the way.Don't mix up immune system and sheltering at home :)
(DIR) Post #AUslWLOaZTJJ3plkZs by Zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-21T16:32:42.226111Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@feditips >If that happens, the Fediverse would no longer be protected from buyouts by nasty people.Yes it would. Anyone on massoc gets what they fucking deserve.Also obligatory >(3/6)Join a real instance already.
(DIR) Post #AUslcmlPjJeBgAW73A by Zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-21T16:33:52.075909Z
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@shuro @leftsidestory @wrongthink @feditips @stux You look like a nigger, or a faggot. Why should I care about your opinion? You are who the gate is meant to keep out.
(DIR) Post #AUslltG4x7IMQbCZ9M by amberage@eldritch.cafe
2023-04-21T16:17:50Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@feditips no no please do attack him, he's been twitterifying Mastodon for too long and people needs to oust him and stop treating upstream Mastodon as the holy bible of ActivityPub before he ruins it completely.
(DIR) Post #AUsqRWHNB7478eueiu by shuro@friends.deko.cloud
2023-04-21T17:27:47Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Sorry for triggering your immune response. I am going to back out of this thread before it gets hit with shitokine storm but thanks for vividly illustrating my point above ❤️
(DIR) Post #AUsr5Dz4cPIxyrHo0m by Zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com
2023-04-21T17:35:01.954317Z
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@shuro @leftsidestory @wrongthink @feditips @stux >he thinks he's on the right side
(DIR) Post #AUsrHeryU6k0q6tWUK by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-04-21T17:37:13.876624Z
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@shuro @wrongthink @Zerglingman @feditips @stux >open website up like goatse>Website becomes shit twitter clone with the same fear porn hysteria and low quality postingLol lmao
(DIR) Post #AUsryqEY6oQQXL2qps by irie@freecumextremist.com
2023-04-21T17:45:04.383444Z
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@feditips >musk-type takeoversmore like Musk-like liberationdeath to liberals. imposing subhumanity on everyone
(DIR) Post #AUstg7pQfR9fVpUxzk by Tedgarrison3@mstdn.social
2023-04-21T17:13:55Z
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@hszakherThat was my thought as well. Make it a random open-for-signup server. @Homebrewandhacking @folkerschamel @seth @feditips
(DIR) Post #AUstk5QRXlKzDZhUCe by atomic@universeodon.com
2023-04-21T16:19:25Z
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@m0xee @Homebrewandhacking @folkerschamel @seth @feditips "But won't the federated nature make it even easier to migrate elsewhere in case of Musk-like buyout?"Not if they defederate the server before announcing the takeover.
(DIR) Post #AUuZLYLbGYcCuXNYo4 by Sean@liberal.city
2023-04-22T13:25:37Z
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@jeena @Jonathanglick @CrazyMyra which would mean it can't just be Mastodon dot social, there needs to be a wide choice given to new users onboarding for the first time. I would even leave m . social (or whichever instance has the most users that momth) off that list to ensure instance diversity.
(DIR) Post #AUvVGKWt0ZIxwss7ua by Urban_Hermit@mstdn.social
2023-04-23T00:14:36Z
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@louis @feditips Straight up, I 100% agree with the intention of what you are saying. I believe in your goals. But almost all of the thousands of servers on the fediverse are run by volunteer hobbyists, with no related income and few incentives to keep them from flaking or rage quiting one day. I trust most of them but have no information on which ones I shouldn't. They are diverse choices, but individually are not automatically better.