Post AUovDOS7Cg29wtBINE by trz4747@mstdn.social
(DIR) More posts by trz4747@mstdn.social
(DIR) Post #AUovDFxKnEetb6ibHk by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-19T17:56:26Z
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Writing for Boston University, @commscholar has left Twitter because she no longer wants to support a privately owned platform that’s actively destroying democracy. Cool!But I’m also curious about people who find Mastodon to be too progressive and “strict” on moderation. What are these people saying to get themselves on the bad side of moderators?I’m grateful they haven’t discovered the “edgy” part of the Fediverse. https://www.bu.edu/articles/2023/pov-why-i-quit-twitter-npr-and-disinformation/@fediversenews
(DIR) Post #AUovDGWmfR0zN3IuXY by commscholar@federate.social
2023-04-19T18:27:20Z
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@atomicpoet Thanks, Chris. To be clear, this is an opinion piece in BU Today...I am not speaking for the university. For your Q about moderation, @trz4747 shared some of his experiences with me and might be willing to talk to you on this.
(DIR) Post #AUovDHCc9uTXSmsJk0 by trz4747@mstdn.social
2023-04-19T19:07:28Z
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@commscholar @atomicpoet Yup, happy to discuss this.
(DIR) Post #AUovDHeySTA0sk8xwe by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-19T19:19:36Z
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@trz4747 @commscholar I’m all ears.
(DIR) Post #AUovDICISZocY5jZsu by trz4747@mstdn.social
2023-04-19T19:34:38Z
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@atomicpoet @commscholar There are several aspects to the problem that probably should be numbered. But let me start here: (1) In practice, most instances that ban X, also seem to ban *arguments that X shouldn't be banned*. And this is where Mastodon instances get Orwellian in a way that most social media forums aren't. For example, I'm aware as I'm writing this that once I get into concrete examples, that discussion itself could get me banned so I have to tread carefully.
(DIR) Post #AUovDIqM3drGYKTZK4 by trz4747@mstdn.social
2023-04-19T19:38:15Z
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@atomicpoet @commscholar I'll send a private link to an example of this where I actually did get several posts banned and a "strike" against me in the instance. However, I can imagine any number of other examples. It takes this form: Opinion X is banned. If Person A states Opinion X, he gets banned. Censorial, but ok. But here's where it gets weirder. If Person B argues that Person A shouldn't have gotten banned, Person B gets banned. So a discussion *about the moderation itself* is impossible.
(DIR) Post #AUovDJGEVQYfqaaEeu by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-19T19:41:49Z
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@trz4747 @commscholar I’ve never had the experience you’re having. Sounds like an individual server problem, not a “Mastodon” problem. But I admit to being paranoid about potential bans because I was shadow banned on Twitter. Hence why I run several of my own servers.
(DIR) Post #AUovDJjek25tJqLjWK by skotchygut@social.tummyacid.net
2023-04-19T19:48:16.768009Z
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@atomicpoet @trz4747 @commscholar this sort of meta modding game is always bound to be fraught with difficulty. At what point does anyone have the right to project an opinion upon anyone? Unless someone here is advocating for no moderation at all I don’t see how this is any worse then anything else that exists today. The only important detail is with open protocols we as users gain freedom of association. We can take our accounts and followers to another instance if we do not like how the one we are on is managed. This gives us leverage and further aligns incentives for those who manage servers to do so in the interests of their users.
(DIR) Post #AUovDKCN1H3wktmfHE by trz4747@mstdn.social
2023-04-19T19:56:48Z
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@skotchygut @commscholar @atomicpoet I understand what you're saying, but one of my points is: For most users on most instances, their moderator is blocking content from being seen by them that in many cases they'd probably be okay with because, e.g., entire servers are being blocked. Moreover, for most users, they don't even know the quantity or nature of what's being moderated because it's a black box. They're in Stepford Wives neighborhoods without fully understanding what they signed up for.
(DIR) Post #AUovDMvorGbdER3zOa by trz4747@mstdn.social
2023-04-19T19:40:29Z
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@atomicpoet @commscholar In my opinion, a core flaw in the Mastodon protocol is that people on highly censorial instances don't know what they're not seeing. There isn't a black rectangle that says "this post was blocked." Posts on banned instances just don't appear -- as if they didn't exist. Without being able to know what they don't know, users are left in a poor position to push back on the intensity and type of moderation. The incentive to censor is unidirectional.
(DIR) Post #AUovDOS7Cg29wtBINE by trz4747@mstdn.social
2023-04-19T19:45:22Z
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@atomicpoet @commscholar Another aspect is that (2) server rules are poorly framed to begin with, and then loosely interpreted when applied. Here's an example, and hopefully I don't get in trouble for this: A server rule might be that it doesn't allow "racism." Ok wonderful. But you might have a liberal Zionist and a leftist anti-Zionist who each think the other's core political beliefs are racism.
(DIR) Post #AUovDPvZidC2WXyKvo by trz4747@mstdn.social
2023-04-19T19:47:23Z
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@atomicpoet @commscholar If you join a server hoping to discuss Israeli politics, you don't know which of those the moderator is. Remember, the moderator is just a random dude with his personal view on which of those two is "racism." You have to test that gray area to find out, and the way you'll find out is getting banned such that you have to pack your things and migrate to a different instance.
(DIR) Post #AUraiuxorUcUC955Qu by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-04-19T19:58:38Z
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@trz4747 @skotchygut @commscholar Does your server not list what is being blocked and why? That’s actually a pretty common practice.
(DIR) Post #AUraivstRIH139mfOS by lucywildboots@venera.social
2023-04-20T01:44:17Z
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@atomicpoet I am logged in on my instance. Talking to my friends from my instance. Someone from another instance sees my post and doesn’t like the topic. They alert it and want my instance owner to force everybody on my instance to CW the conversation. Even though it is not breaking the rules of my service and our rules are similar with most other LGBTQ+ instances, they start talking defederation. This is broken. And it doesn’t become less broken the larger we get.
(DIR) Post #AUraiwSLJUd6p6MyeG by juliewebgirl@mstdn.social
2023-04-20T03:54:44Z
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@lucywildboots@atomicpoet The #Fediverse / #Mastodon is not broken. Users got spoiled with Big Social™ & don't know how to shop for an instance. Granted, the choices are vast & too many don't realize the responsibilities that come along w/ creating an instance. Finding an admin who won't cave when a Karen demands a ban just bcuz they don't like it is rare. But they do exist.
(DIR) Post #AUraixBiamvT5pbDNI by lucywildboots@venera.social
2023-04-20T17:46:29Z
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@juliewebgirl @fediversenews I’m sorry but if the admin who won’t cave to Karen’s is rare, then the system is broken.
(DIR) Post #AUraixlASzHYrmBWd6 by juliewebgirl@mstdn.social
2023-04-20T18:15:45Z
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@lucywildboots@fediversenews Your expectation of the system is broken, not the system itself.
(DIR) Post #AUraiyYnUSytLhP9zE by hakona@im.alstadheim.no
2023-04-20T18:55:01Z
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@juliewebgirl @lucywildboots @fediversenews Harsh, but I agree.I'll try to put it another way:Over time, different sets of "how we do it here" will crystallize. Give it time.Say you have an instance that de-fedederates too much, rather than tell their users to use tools at /their/ disposal. If they truly are an outlier, they'll isolate themselves, maybe with a group of others. You'll get various spheres in the fediverse. You might end up in a big or a small one, and it'll shift over time.
(DIR) Post #AUraizIAllHFcQdOiG by lucywildboots@venera.social
2023-04-21T01:46:57Z
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@hakona @fediversenews @juliewebgirl As someone who has had to move once already since I came back for exactly the reasons we’ve discussed, I will suggest that you both leave your comfort zones and experience the all, new Fediverse. That’s not really what I want to suggest you do, but moderation forbids me from suggesting those body formations. Your laissez-faire (or complacent) attitude allows abuse while you sit by on your mushrooms smoking your hookahs. “Over time…crystallize” how very, very Karen of you both.
(DIR) Post #AUraiznMtmENBBEJKy by hakona@im.alstadheim.no
2023-04-21T02:52:57Z
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@lucywildboots @juliewebgirl @fediversenews Sorry you've been forced to move. Nobody can force an admin to do anything on their own server. If somebody comes to your village and tells them to hound the witches into the forest, or else they'll not be allowed to go to market, "rules" will not help.I hope you have found a village that will stick up for you now, but the world is a shitty place. Rules are a nice first step to fixing it, but it takes /people/ to go all the way.