Post AUeWsCDZUkpZP5Py9w by oclsc@mstdn.ca
(DIR) More posts by oclsc@mstdn.ca
(DIR) Post #AUeBHHIxWNGhQcUbxo by georgetakei@universeodon.com
2023-04-14T15:30:59Z
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Waiting for an answer, Mr. Speaker.
(DIR) Post #AUeBHHn5iLN4w4afvk by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-14T15:40:37Z
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@georgetakei Surely whether he was justified depends on the content of the documents? I don't understand people who are more concerned with whistleblowers breaking the law than the *government* criminality they expose.It's not "patriotic" to be loyal to a corrupt state, it's amoral and authoritarian.
(DIR) Post #AUeCvXlXq3Fe1EcxjU by LizardSF@universeodon.com
2023-04-14T15:59:05Z
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@BarrenPlanet @georgetakei Not all evils are equal.During WW2, Churchill's policies led to mass starvation in India (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943), and his comments makes it clear that even if genocide wasn't his primary goal, he sure didn't care if it happened.Even given that, leaking British military secrets to the Nazis would not have been morally justified.At this point in time, Putin's Russia is undeniably more evil than the US. Aiding it with the excuse of "The US does bad things, too", is unsophisticated sophistry. Save the shocking revelations for when Putin's gutted corpse is hanging by its heels in Red Square.
(DIR) Post #AUeDJmfU5GSZBgLqSG by kyozou@sfba.social
2023-04-14T16:03:28Z
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@BarrenPlanet @georgetakei He didn’t expose any government “criminality”
(DIR) Post #AUeHAhVOJF0mNyYRma by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-14T16:46:39Z
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@kyozou @georgetakei What did he expose?
(DIR) Post #AUeIaSQD70oZ5Wydbk by oclsc@mstdn.ca
2023-04-14T17:02:29Z
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@BarrenPlanet @kyozou @georgetakei His own criminality?
(DIR) Post #AUeKQvGhCr7JZC6kaW by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-14T17:23:12Z
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@oclsc @kyozou @georgetakei I don't buy in to this tired narrative that anyone who leaks classified docs from the US government is a traitor who is putting American troops at risk, aiding and abetting enemes, should be jailed, blah blah. Your media cranks out that same narrative every time there's a leak, even when the journos and outlets covering it are winning Pulitzer Prizes for their public-interest reporting.Perhaps in this case, the narrative happens to be true. Perhaps this kid really has revealed secrets of such operational sensitivity, his act was reckless and he should face time behind bars. Or perhaps not.That depends very much on exactly what he leaked, which no-one in this thread appears to know for sure.
(DIR) Post #AUeLZExdyOVqugj6DA by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-14T17:35:55Z
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@LizardSF @georgetakei Thanks for your comment. My own thoughts are summed up in the below three posts. I've been writing about the situation in Ukraine since 2014, across multiple platforms. There are another two dozen or so analyses on my Mastodon TL alone, but I have no more time to find them than you have to read them.Have a good day.https://c.im/@BarrenPlanet/109697168979231864https://c.im/@BarrenPlanet/109322863624666555https://c.im/@BarrenPlanet/109933059796606601
(DIR) Post #AUeMARjDT2kdE0ieW0 by oclsc@mstdn.ca
2023-04-14T17:42:37Z
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@BarrenPlanet @kyozou @georgetakeiYou seem upset because I offered a possible answer to your question, even though I used a question mark to indicate my uncertainty.Perhaps you shouldn't ask questions if you're just looking for a fight.
(DIR) Post #AUeMtkfnsS510rj5gO by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-14T17:50:49Z
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@oclsc @kyozou @georgetakei I'm neither upset nor looking for a fight.
(DIR) Post #AUeQBePcC6mmfZNfbE by oclsc@mstdn.ca
2023-04-14T18:27:40Z
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@BarrenPlanet @kyozou @georgetakei You could have fooled me.
(DIR) Post #AUeT4zJiN7mVL98Sbg by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-14T19:00:04Z
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@oclsc @kyozou @georgetakei Judging by your comments here, yes I could easily have fooled you. But I chose not to do so, and to discuss a topic in good faith.
(DIR) Post #AUeVFn8iBh9ofMGgq0 by oclsc@mstdn.ca
2023-04-14T19:24:26Z
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@BarrenPlanet @kyozou @georgetakei With what came across as a long political rant and dressing-down for political incorrectness. If that's not what you intended, a different tone might help. Not that I'm trying to police your tone; just telling you what it sounded like from here. Do as you will regardless. Cheers!
(DIR) Post #AUeWsAVvpWKS7RzbV2 by andrewt@mastodon.social
2023-04-14T18:12:36Z
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@oclsc @BarrenPlanet @kyozou @georgetakei so to be clear, you answered a question that wasn't aimed at you, and that you didn't know the answer to, with something that you made up and which didn't really answer the question anyway, in order to voice — not defend, just voice — the exact position being criticized, and you think you're being the reasonable one here?
(DIR) Post #AUeWsB9dRu5W6aZJNw by oclsc@mstdn.ca
2023-04-14T18:27:26Z
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@andrewt @BarrenPlanet @kyozou @georgetakeiIf you don't want just anyone to answer your question, it might be wiser not to post it on a public forum. HTH
(DIR) Post #AUeWsBgFUeAxjjpMDg by andrewt@mastodon.social
2023-04-14T18:37:51Z
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@oclsc @BarrenPlanet @kyozou @georgetakei you understand that you didn't in fact answer the question, right?
(DIR) Post #AUeWsCDZUkpZP5Py9w by oclsc@mstdn.ca
2023-04-14T19:25:23Z
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@andrewt @BarrenPlanet @kyozou @georgetakei You understand that you're picking a fight with someone who doesn't want to play, don't you?
(DIR) Post #AUeWsClFTXll5XAreS by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-14T19:42:32Z
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@oclsc @andrewt @kyozou @georgetakei Engaging people in discussion isn't "picking a fight". If it were, then the evidence in this thread would speak clearly that it was you who picked the fight, not us.
(DIR) Post #AUeYkAsGo3YepPkzom by Cr33py@mastodon.social
2023-04-14T19:05:45Z
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@LizardSF @BarrenPlanet @georgetakei Just curious, but what about the British working together with German Nazis in Greece to prevent Leftists and democrats from rising against the planned return of the king? Would that justify leaking British documents back then? (From your personal POV, unrelated to the current situation with the US)
(DIR) Post #AUeYkBPwmqUqVrVtJI by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-14T20:03:33Z
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@Cr33py @LizardSF @georgetakei Or NATO working with far-right nationalists across Western Europe throughout the Cold War to achieve often violent internal subversion, and prop up right-wing parties which had a favourable view of the United States. This has included the mass murder of civilians in multiple countries.
(DIR) Post #AUebNhoyRcL0DHC1pI by andrewt@mastodon.social
2023-04-14T20:33:04Z
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@BarrenPlanet @oclsc @kyozou @georgetakei it's *very funny* how transparently he wants us to get angry and has no backup plan for if we just laugh at his nonsense
(DIR) Post #AUect1bv19poWJaIm8 by zeemeermin@mastodon.social
2023-04-14T20:49:57Z
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@BarrenPlanet @georgetakei The raped childeren in Ukraine beg to differ.The guy is a traitor and so is the clowns show called the GOP
(DIR) Post #AUedATI9LwvXIKenBI by zeemeermin@mastodon.social
2023-04-14T20:53:07Z
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@BarrenPlanet @Cr33py @LizardSF @georgetakei Oh that sure justifies Putin. Glad we know what side you're on.
(DIR) Post #AUf7P3f5vLY0m1GDse by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-15T02:31:55Z
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@andrewt @oclsc@mstdn.ca @kyozou @georgetakei Restating the original position being criticised whille appending your statement with a "?", so you can do the whole sealioning "just asking questions!" routine, is basic-level trolling.Damn it, we expect better from our trolls these days! 😆
(DIR) Post #AUfCkDy9IQXoaq5M8W by chuck88@mstdn.party
2023-04-15T03:31:45Z
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@BarrenPlanet @oclsc @kyozou @georgetakei "That depends very much on exactly what he leaked, which no-one in this thread appears to know for sure." Including you. Which hasn't stopped you from jumping to conclusions. But I'm sure TFG would be happy to agree with your argument.
(DIR) Post #AUftk0YfSD3F1qJHOa by andrewt@mastodon.social
2023-04-15T11:33:31Z
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@BarrenPlanet @kyozou @georgetakei can we get him one of those cooling helmets like Detritus has?
(DIR) Post #AUgZooxiBvj8aS0APA by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-15T19:25:01Z
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@chuck88 @oclsc@mstdn.ca @kyozou @georgetakei I didn't jump to any conclusion. You literally just quoted me, not jumping to any conclusion. 😆
(DIR) Post #AUj9B4W2acAtwm2qiO by chuck88@mstdn.party
2023-04-17T01:10:37Z
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@BarrenPlanet @kyozou @georgetakei Why, yes, I *did* quote you. Just like I am now quoting you jumping to conclusions: "I don't understand people who are more concerned with whistleblowers breaking the law than the *government* criminality they expose."You used the word "criminality" in another post after that to describe what was leaked, after which you wrote "no-one in this thread appears to know for sure" what was leaked. First you contradicted yourself and then denied you did so.
(DIR) Post #AUjAZAGgxBdwgxuxtI by chuck88@mstdn.party
2023-04-17T01:26:11Z
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@BarrenPlanet @kyozou @georgetakei Let's simplify this. I agree that none of us know exactly what was leaked at this point and that leaking classified documents is not, ipso facto, treason. How's that?
(DIR) Post #AUjJwDpilS5VzqN7Vw by kyozou@sfba.social
2023-04-17T03:11:12Z
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@BarrenPlanet @georgetakei If you don't know, maybe you should refrain from commenting.
(DIR) Post #AUjhLxvWp9ub8fKgoC by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-17T07:33:34Z
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@chuck88 @kyozou @georgetakei No, I raised the possibility that the leak may have been justified, while pointing out that none of us actually know for sure. I also said that perhaps he deserves to go to jail, or perhaps not.
(DIR) Post #AUjhi2fDtPIyCXEUxU by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-17T07:37:34Z
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@kyozou @georgetakei What, and just take it for granted that the official line is trustworthy because we don't know for sure that it isn't? Erm, no thanks.Until the contents are analysed, none of us know either way, and the only ones jumping to conclusions are those assuming that he's done wrong.
(DIR) Post #AUjjzPDdUEFOzAjjLU by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-17T08:03:07Z
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@chuck88 @kyozou @georgetakei Perhaps I should have put it so succinctly myself. Thank you.
(DIR) Post #AUkHK3yOyBRpf64KQ4 by kyozou@sfba.social
2023-04-17T14:16:36Z
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@BarrenPlanet @georgetakei There are plenty of news stories available discussing what he leaked, even including screen caps. Apparently you couldn’t be bothered to read them before cooking up a rationalization for what he did.
(DIR) Post #AUkOzXR32DGgaZBxHU by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-17T15:42:33Z
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@kyozou @georgetakei I didn't rationalize anything, and have already read said news reports. When Ed Snowden leaked those NSA docs, the actual, full docs were available to check against the reporting.That's not happening here, which may be for genuine national security reasons, or it may be for other reasons. I admit I don't know, one way or the other. You seem to be saying you do know, but won't say *what* you know, which suggests you actually don't know, either.Yet you're still prepared to get punchy in a debate in which you have no real points to make.
(DIR) Post #AUkQ2V64Hjqy9wM4o4 by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-17T15:54:17Z
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@kyozou @georgetakei Oh and by the way, if you don't understand that the world's intelligence agencies - including Russia's - had those docs within minutes of them dropping, then you also don't understand the extent of today's digital snooping.There's no reason not to discuss anything that's already a matter of public record.