Post AUXdGLQ0hsBJayeGhM by alfredbaudisch@mastodon.gamedev.place
(DIR) More posts by alfredbaudisch@mastodon.gamedev.place
(DIR) Post #AUXOCzlnEzS8GvmYYi by jk@mastodon.social
2023-04-11T08:03:38Z
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the first computer that was ever mine was a toshiba satellite 420 (hehe) running windows 95. no internet connection whatsoever. all the software i had access to was from shareware/warez/cover CDs. so many great programs, creative tools, games, hidden behind the little icons of .exe files. in contrast, my first experiences of the web were "iexplore pops up with a broken page". maybe as a result of this i still don't really value the web as a platform or feel like it's a 'real' medium
(DIR) Post #AUXOD0ZQGT9Skr0Buq by jk@mastodon.social
2023-04-11T08:09:10Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
when we eventually got dial-up, and i was able to access the actual web, i wasn't impressed by that either. just a load of dead ends and broken jpegs, while the phone bill was gradually increasing. tick, tick. i liked a lot of the websites, the good ones had Downloads, which meant you could grab something, hang up the connection and actually start having fun. but they were still very subpar compared to the glory of the 750MB warez CD-R
(DIR) Post #AUXOD1RJ28FlRyDDu4 by jk@mastodon.social
2023-04-11T08:12:52Z
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there has always been something uncanny about websites and web interfaces to me. the actual operating system i was using had satisfying 3D buttons that felt like they'd go 'clunk' when you hit them, and something exciting would happen, like you'd be playing a video game or something. web sites just had these underlined words, and you'd click them, and nothing would happen for ages, so you'd click them again, and eventually something really boring would slowly appear on the screen
(DIR) Post #AUXOD2GLyL5Q0I5zTE by jk@mastodon.social
2023-04-11T08:23:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
as the years went on, i started seeing more and more stuff that was web-based rather than being an actual computer program i could own. PHP forums, java applets, flash, javascript SPAs. people tried to make websites do more and more, but they still always felt like... not real software? there was always something janky and bad about the whole experience, or the design, and that feeling's never really gone away for me. everything on a computer is like this now, even the OS feels like a web page
(DIR) Post #AUXOD3nMH756kwXrYO by jk@mastodon.social
2023-04-11T08:35:48Z
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i've spent years trying to work out whether this very strong and idiosyncratic feeling i have is underpinned by any kind of technical reality. i doubt it is. obviously you can make a 'good' web 'app'. but i can't get away from feeling like it should be for reading scrolling pages of text and images that link to eachother. it's too ephemeral and non-deterministic and clearly not intended for making actual, solid-feeling software. yet that's what everybody does now
(DIR) Post #AUXOD71IHl0kl25XBw by jk@mastodon.social
2023-04-11T08:39:39Z
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you can't have this discussion with technical people at all usually, because the entire argument i have amounts to is "idk, the vibes are off", and the nerds are like "okay have you got a test suite? can you benchmark the vibes? our A/B tests say otherwise"
(DIR) Post #AUXODAJ83u3mxDSJuK by jk@mastodon.social
2023-04-11T08:44:28Z
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also, this is entirely a UX problem, and it's a MUCH smaller problem than actual big problems with computers, like "all software, over time, gradually turns into some form of malware"
(DIR) Post #AUXQo3cA6pFsoq4rx2 by Polychrome@poly.cybre.city
2023-04-11T09:31:36.784866Z
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@jk I'm a nerd who agrees with despite my different background with the PC.I started with DOS which meant a command prompt and whatever GUI I landed on was wildly different from program to program. Then Windows 3.x "standardized" the look of programs for and by the time 95 showed up I remember being somewhat disappointed because the new button design was less chunky and I liked the big round rectangle look better.My first experience with online services was with text based BBSes - just text and ANSI art made by underground hacker types and underaged wannabes who put a lot of effort into pushing a limited medium (extremely limited compared to DOS games) into looking as wild and personal as possible.So when I started using the web it was as underwhelming as you describe it - basic, simple looking web pages without the solid feel of a DOS or Windows program or the odd and underground artistic designs of BBSes.Even when HTML capabilities improved something felt off and not quite right. I hated flash sites and the artistic sites that made it difficult to navigate - I expected a document and instead started getting lost in incoherent UI mazes. Turns out that while BBSs were also wild and artistic they mostly followed a UI design formula where as the web at the time was still evolving so everyone was doing their own standard.And then native applications started mimicking web design, occasionally done as an Internet Explorer embed. And webapps happened and it all felt wrong for the same reason you're describing.I think the other reason I hated Windows 8, beside them trying to kill a perfectly usable design in favor of something that belongs on tablets instead of PC, was that their new 'flat design' looked like a corporate website instead of an operating system. No more chunky clicky buttons, no shading of light on windows and widgets to make them feel present. Just basic square bars and crude, simple icons thrown around with lots of whitespace for touchscreen finger taps that weren't going to happen. That feeling hasn't gone away even now with Windows 10, 11, and modern Gnome on Linux, and even KDE somewhat.Today everything is a 'website' even when it's not and it all just feels wrong.
(DIR) Post #AUXdGLQ0hsBJayeGhM by alfredbaudisch@mastodon.gamedev.place
2023-04-11T09:01:56Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@jk I miss "REAL" user interfaces a lot. Flat UI design is a mistake, it's not readable. We don't even need to go back to skeuomorphic design, but at least design with actual depth. Buttons that are actual buttons and now just a flat rectangle that gets confused with the rest of the screen.
(DIR) Post #Amb796JvRoI2oqJixU by ratkins@mastodon.social
2023-04-11T16:15:22Z
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@jk You’re absolutely 100% correct about this. The web is a great hypertext browsing system but a *terrible* application platform. All web “apps” live right at the bottom of the uncanny valley of software UIs, who knows what this button will do when I click it or what invisible and unnecessarily asynchronous process will be kicked off before it responds. It’s terrible and what baffles me is *nobody seems to care*. Nobody under the age of forty even remembers anything different!
(DIR) Post #Amb797Dw5Z5pcYWSGG by enkiv2@eldritch.cafe
2023-04-11T16:51:37Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@ratkins @jk Correction: the web is an *OK* hypertext browsing system.