Post AUVrtuDaGadtrOftU8 by fastfinge@equestria.social
(DIR) More posts by fastfinge@equestria.social
(DIR) Post #AUTsfBtrxEMTzi54Nc by raccoon@home.social
2023-04-06T16:57:14Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
Been working on a new project the last couple of months and it's finally ready for beta release!#Fedimeister is a #Java based #Mastodon client (available for #Linux, #Windows and #MacOS under the Apache #opensource license) with a focus on #writing and #journalism. Features:* Break long texts into threads* Scheduled posting* Hashtag research* #Twitter quote tweeting emulationhttps://fedimeister.onyxbits.de@fediversenews @fediverse
(DIR) Post #AUTteIlj20CkxgPZEO by MrClon@lor.sh
2023-04-09T16:35:58Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
> Break long texts into threadsLook what they need to mimic a fraction of our power@raccoon
(DIR) Post #AUTusy1gXA7WvZQvUO by raccoon@home.social
2023-04-09T16:49:49Z
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@MrClon Pffft! What are you going to do, when you need to post a 100405 character essay, huh, huh, huhđ ?
(DIR) Post #AUTvI7vwpqSKtWkN84 by MrClon@lor.sh
2023-04-09T16:54:22Z
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@raccoon i will post it. Limit is 100500 char, checkmate!
(DIR) Post #AUUgIsWsI15fFnsa4u by jdasher@mastodon.social
2023-04-10T01:28:05Z
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@raccoon @fediversenews @fediverse First, congrats on the effort youâve obviously out into your project. But for those of us who have been following the #twitterexodus at armsâ length, what is it about a âQuote Boostâ feature that is somehow an improvement? At my current (admittedly low) level of interest in the feature, it just seems like a way to recenter a conversation around the person replying, rather than where the conversation started?
(DIR) Post #AUUgItINRP5Vd86W7U by raccoon@home.social
2023-04-10T01:36:28Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@jdasher Quote Tweeting is a controversial feature that causes a lot of harm on Twitter. In a nutshell, QT allows you to "steal" a discussion over to your timeline and potentially make the original poster look like a fool to your followers.And yes, you are correct, "recentering" the conversation is one of the ideas behind how Fedimeister implements quoting.
(DIR) Post #AUUxqcp6t9LRbr5PWK by CodexArcanum@hachyderm.io
2023-04-10T04:43:34Z
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@jdasher @raccoon @fediversenews @fediverseI've often found it helpful in the context of re-sharing a news story or link that someone has shared, but adding my own commentary to it (as though I'd initially shared it), without losing the source context that I drew it from. I think of it less as "recentering" than "recontextualizing." I understand that when QBing someone's original content, it can also be a tool for targeting (e.g. for harassment) but I never used them that way.
(DIR) Post #AUUxqddnqftW94ntXE by me@t.joeldebruijn.nl
2023-04-10T04:54:33.245522Z
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@CodexArcanum @jdasher @raccoon @fediversenews I keep different personas for Dutch and English following/follower to post mostly in the language for the targeted group. But sometimes I have a crossover, news being global and all. Than I want to quote-boost an English post with summary or context in Dutch.
(DIR) Post #AUVrtrhxbC9s4jrbuq by fastfinge@equestria.social
2023-04-09T23:58:28Z
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@raccoon Consider removing quoted tweet emulation. The fact that quoted posts don't exist on Mastodon is highly intentional. The feature is exclusively used for abuse. Also, 99.99 percent of Mastodon clients won't display them correctly. You should avoid adding features that will make the experience worse for users of other apps.
(DIR) Post #AUVrtsMj9clg7AwASW by raccoon@home.social
2023-04-10T00:08:51Z
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@fastfinge Quote tweets are emulated by rendering a post as a static image that can be attached as media (plus original post as image description). This is basically a streamlined version of screenshotting a post, something, people always had the option of doing.Removing this feature would do nothing to prevent malice, but kill legitimate use cases. One of them being being able to highlight the portion of a post, you are replying to.
(DIR) Post #AUVrtt1Ui3NU9c0j0C by fastfinge@equestria.social
2023-04-10T00:09:42Z
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@raccoon There is no legitimate use for quoting a post. Either boost without comment, or engage in discussion by replying directly.
(DIR) Post #AUVrttbIYw19welJoG by raccoon@home.social
2023-04-10T00:24:05Z
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@fastfingeThere is! And this reply is actually an example for it.As a visually impaired user, you will probably not be able to (fully) see it, but the rendered post in the attached image has the first sentence "There is not legitimate use for quoting a post" highlighted. Thus telling you exactly what I am replying to.
(DIR) Post #AUVrtuDaGadtrOftU8 by fastfinge@equestria.social
2023-04-10T00:25:20Z
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@raccoon So it's OK to completely break accessibility, and fail to comply with dozens of other Mastodon features, just to make your personal life a tiny bit easier?
(DIR) Post #AUVrtxBDFrWp2uaXho by jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
2023-04-10T08:55:43Z
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@fastfinge What if I told you that just about the whole Fediverse supports quotes, only Mastodon doesn't?What if I told you that #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse? What if I told you that I myself am not on Mastodon, although this post of mine has appeared on your timeline?What if I told you that, in fact, the Fediverse has been around for much longer than Mastodon?What if I told you that it started in 2008 with something called Laconi.ca, now known as #GNUsocial (#^https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_social)Okay, GNU social doesn't really count as part of today's Fediverse because it doesn't support #ActivityPub. And okay, it wasn't called the Fediverse back then but the #FederatedSocialWeb. But still, the whole concept isn't new. It was not invented by Eugen Rochko.Still, even today's Fediverse is more than Mastodon and older than Mastodon. And just about everything that isn't Mastodon supports quotes while still being fully federated with Mastodon.But let me elaborate (warning, this post is over 12 times as long as a toot can possibly be):#Friendica (#^https://friendi.ca, #^https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendica, #^https://joinfediverse.wiki/Special:MyLanguage/What_is_Friendica%3F) was launched in July 2010. That was six years before Mastodon. It was created by a guy named Mike Macgirvin as a decentralised, distributed, federated replacement for Facebook. No, not Twitter. Facebook.From the very beginning, it had many features which Mastodon users keep demanding today. Including quotes. Again, when Mastodon was launched, Friendica had had these features in daily productive use for six years already.And yet, people don't use quotes to harass others by "stealing" discussions. This is technically impossible on Friendica due to its architecture which is more like Facebook or a blog or a forum and less like Twitter or Mastodon. Threads aren't stand-alone posts floating around the timelines, loosely tied together by increasing numbers of mentions. Instead, they're start-post-and-comments structures. Replies aren't stand-alone posts. Replies are comments firmly tied to one start post by Friendica's internal structure.Oh, and Friendica doesn't run on ActivityPub. It has its own internal protocol, #DFRN. Still, Friendica quickly created an ActivityPub connector and federated with Mastodon, thus becoming part of the Fediverse. Friendica federates with a whole lot of projects and platforms. In fact, there is a growing number of forums mostly frequented by Mastodon users which run on Friendica, such as FediverseNews.I myself am on #Hubzilla (#^https://hubzilla.org, #^https://joinfediverse.wiki/Special:MyLanguage/What_is_Hubzilla%3F). It started life in 2012, still four years before Mastodon, as a fork of Friendica, created by Friendica's own inventor. In 2011 already, Mike had conceived an even more powerful protocol named #Zot which comes with features that are outright utterly unimaginable for Mastodon users such as #NomadicIdentity. Hubzilla even had its first stable release before Mastodon was launched.And Hubzilla still has almost all the features Friendica has with a whole lot more on top. Again, including quotes. Again, yes, before Mastodon refused to have them. And again, yes, without anyone misusing them for harassment.And again, it's part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to read this.I should also mention that both Friendica and Hubzilla have technical barriers in the way of publicly quoting private or restricted posts, at least with references/a connection to the quoted post. Hubzilla in particular has access rights control on a level you couldn't possibly imagine in your wildest dreams.And just about everything else in the Fediverse that's microblogging or macroblogging has official, built-in quote support.#Pleroma (#^https://pleroma.social/, #^https://joinfediverse.wiki/What_is_Pleroma%253F) has quotes. And it's part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.#Akkoma (#^https://akkoma.social/), a Pleroma fork, has quotes. And it's part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.#MissKey (#^https://misskey-hub.net/en/, #^https://joinfediverse.wiki/What_is_Misskey%253F) has quotes. And it's part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.#CalcKey (#^https://calckey.cloud/, #^https://joinfediverse.wiki/What_is_Calckey%3F) has quotes. And it's part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.#FoundKey (#^https://akkoma.dev/FoundKeyGang/FoundKey) has quotes. And it's part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.#GoToSocial (#^https://docs.gotosocial.org/, #^https://joinfediverse.wiki/What_is_GoToSocial%3F) has quotes. And it's part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.#Socialhome (#^https://socialhome.network/) has quotes. And it's part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.Yes, they're all federated with Mastodon. This means that users of any of these projects, including Friendica and Hubzilla, can read Mastodon posts and quote them in their replies, and these replies, in turn, can be read on Mastodon.Okay, so the Fediverse has two, three, four... ten projects, and all but Mastodon support quotes, and nowhere are there people demanding the feature be removed due to rampant harassment?No, these are only the microblogging and macroblogging projects, and only those of the macroblogging projects that aren't primarily for long-form blogging, i.e. that aren't mimicking Medium, that aren't mimicking WordPress, that aren't #Wordpress itself. Yes, there are WordPress blogs in the Fediverse, federated with Mastodon.In fact, the Fediverse is even much, much bigger than that (#^https://fediverse.party/en/miscellaneous/, #^https://the-federation.info/).Now go block me for harassing you, for being an ableist swine because I treat blind people equally instead of mollycoddling them wherever possibly, even for being a fascist or just for shattering your worldview into itty bitty pieces. This post of mine stands.CC @Patrick, the Linux guy so that you know that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon, tooAlso CC @Ada @James
(DIR) Post #AUVrtyXEDUjVFTtdey by Imoptimal@mastodon.social
2023-04-10T13:12:11Z
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@jupiter_rowland @jdasherWhy are you so angry on #Mastodon?The beauty of #fediverse is the possibility to use any and every platform, even the one that lacks some features, but is the most popular of the bunch.We should promote all of the fediverse options, but shouldn't be negative to those who have different preferences than our own.
(DIR) Post #AUVru1lWCowjGfbaqm by jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
2023-04-10T15:10:25Z
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@Ivan MaljukanoviÄ đłď¸âđ @James This isn't about Mastodon itself.It's about those people who joined in November, took a while to get used, then found Mastodon quite cosy - and spent all the time from November to at least March "knowing" that the Fediverse is Mastodon, only Mastodon and nothing but Mastodon. That "Mastodon" and "Fediverse" can be used synonymously.And since they love Mastodon so much, they don't want it to change. Which means they don't want "the Fediverse" to change. They don't want "quote-tweets" in "the Fediverse". Nowhere. Under no circumstances.Sure, they may have their reasons.But not wanting "quote-tweets" anywhere in the Fediverse, as they word it, means that they don't want any other Fediverse platforms to have quotes.Then someone tells them that the Fediverse is, in fact, not only Mastodon. There are also all the other projects I've mentioned. And all of them have quotes. And all of them can communicate with Mastodon. People on all these projects can quote Mastodon toots in such ways that Mastodon users can read these quotes.I guess this triggers some of these people to unexpectable reactions, including but not limited to total denial that there's other stuff than Mastodon in the Fediverse that can quote, along with pressing their hands on their ears and going, "LA LA LA I DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS!"This is also why there are many who have joined Mastodon around November who want the Fediverse to be only Mastodon. The existence of places in the Fediverse that aren't their beloved, cosy Mastodon and that have nasty features such as text formatting or quotes disturbs them deeply, also because they can't do anything about it, they can't deny it away, and they can no longer ignore it.
(DIR) Post #AUVru2NnuTZTBPWAWe by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-04-10T15:25:37Z
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@jupiter_rowlandimo the problem is less with newbies than people who have been here a long time. I think what happened is that it was hard to keep interest alive when the fedi was smaller, and the strategy people evolved was tight instances (to foster strong communities people would feel they had to check in on regularly) and less concern about the larger network. that led to a very controlling culture. with all the new people/development, the fedi culture is changing and that's hard.
(DIR) Post #AUWJrozRWyjTmbr46K by samuel@mastodon.schwanzer.online
2023-04-09T06:51:48Z
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@raccoon @fediversenews @fediverse Do you have a link to your SCM? Would be cool to check out the source code.
(DIR) Post #AUWJrpvw1VWKi1DmGu by raccoon@home.social
2023-04-09T11:37:19Z
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@samuel SCM is coming soon. I don't want to host on Github, so I'm currently evaluating my options.
(DIR) Post #AUWJrqWRpkjAXGIwBU by smallcircles@social.coop
2023-04-10T15:20:16Z
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@raccoon Congratulations on the launch. Once you have the source available would be great to add to https://delightful.club/delightful-fediverse-clients@samuel
(DIR) Post #AUWJrrA9S8UEWOse4O by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2023-04-10T20:39:00.981845Z
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But fr mastodon needs to get rid of its tiny post length limit. (59,500 characters remaining)
(DIR) Post #AUXYOxVEUjSsG1NaZU by bgtlover@linuxrocks.online
2023-04-09T16:01:22Z
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@raccoon @fediversenews @fediverse quoting posts is mostly against the mastodon communities wishes, plus any emulation people might do isn't respecting the privacy of posts and toots. Quoting tweets is one of the major factors that made it a toxic shitshow, we don't want mastodon to become that, we don't want a new twitter. Can you make it so that quoting is opt-in, or at least opt-out? I'll check this app indeed, and if it's relatively easy to install on linux as well as accessible to screenreaders, I'll use it, at least for a while.
(DIR) Post #AUXYOyT8tzO3FpPQx6 by simon_lucy@mastodon.social
2023-04-11T10:28:50Z
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@bgtlover @raccoon @fediversenews @fediverse Posts are not private. This might surprise people but this is true.
(DIR) Post #AUXYP1W5ZUWghpoKSe by jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
2023-04-11T10:33:19Z
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@Simon Lucy I can make my posts actually private. No, really. Yes, I can.But I'm not on Mastodon.@bgtlover @Patrick, the Linux guy @Fediverse @Fediverse News
(DIR) Post #AUY8In71oGTce1PsK8 by AskPippa@c.im
2023-04-09T16:09:03Z
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@bgtlover @raccoon @fediversenews @fediverse Have any substantial polls been done to see what people want? I've seen loads of posts from people who want quote posts. A lot of new people have appeared over the past several months and what they want may differ from earlier users.
(DIR) Post #AUY8Io0gTKzpQdSK4e by mathias@friendica.hellquist.eu
2023-04-09T22:03:26Z
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@AskPippa Blaming quote-posts for the demise of Twitter and its toxic culture is like blaming all car accidents on rear mirrors.What makes Twitter bad is the algorithm and the ranking system. It promotes bad behaviour by pitting conflicting post types against each other, repeatedly, to create more interaction. It can dig up old posts, or posts from other user "circles" just to stir up some noise, all in the name of creating more interaction, which of course create more advertising revenue.In the Fediverse we don't have the algorithm. We don't have a ranking system. We have a chronological timeline. When you post your post it gets its slot in the timeline and...well...that's it.All other text-based Fediverse services have quote-posts by the way. If it'd be the cause of the same issues as on Twitter we would've seen it already.https://absolutelymaybe.plos.org/2023/01/12/quote-tweeting-over-30-studies-dispel-some-myths/@bgtlover @raccoon
(DIR) Post #AUY8IoywrHCaRXeS0W by LucyWildboots@c.im
2023-04-11T00:16:14Z
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@mathias @bgtlover @AskPippa @raccoon Assuming there is a single reason why Twitter failed is naive at best and self-serving at worst. And saying âthis was worse than thatâ is an effort in futility. Each community will have different experiences in what part of Twitter made it worse. Having been on Twitter since 2007 I will say categorically that QTs are and were used to harass and attack other people. Those who deny it, generally deny it because they want QT. In fact, most deny it because they want their Twitter and they will insist that they get it and screw the people who are already here. People who actually came here because this place was different. And I find it particularly maddening given the fact that people who use Frendica and other services that have QT continue to insist that the world needs QT. If the world really needed it, Frendica would be experiencing massive growth and it is not.Consent. We are built on consent. If I want to see a manâs dangly bits, I can. I can consent by opening a CW. If, for some bizarre reason I want to see your Wordle, I can. If I want a safe place for queers, I can find it here. To date, nobody has offered a QT that will give me the right to consent to you breaking my thread so you can make a point; consent to include my posts in your thread when you QT; consent to you using my work; consent; consent. How many people have to object? How many of us who are queer or disabled or trans or a furry have to worry again about whether our true selves need protecting?
(DIR) Post #AUY8IscPL1Y3in8VQe by jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
2023-04-11T01:04:21Z
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@LucyWildboots đłď¸âđAnd I find it particularly maddening given the fact that people who use Frendica and other services that have QT continue to insist that the world needs QT.As you can see here, at least if you open this post of mine at its source, quotes can serve a useful purpose. Like on forums, they make it possible to directly reply to certain parts of a post.Anyways, those who have found Mastodon to be a safe haven from Twitter-style harassment and strongly oppose quotes have yet to give a concise declaration on their demands as to what should be done about quotes being an available feature on other projects, and about the possibility of using the quote feature on a non-Mastodon, but ActivityPub-supporting instance to quote Mastodon toots and have said quote appear on Mastodon timelines.I mean, I've done just that. I'm on Hubzilla. Hubzilla even only supports ActivityPub through an optional per-channel app. And yet, I was able to quote your Mastodon toot. And you can see my post with quotes of your toot on your Mastodon timeline. Nothing could stop me from doing this.But especially the LGBTQIA+ community which fled from the harassment on Twitter to Mastodon has yet to answer this question: What, if anything, should be done about this? Should everything that isn't Mastodon, including Friendica which has quotes six years before Mastodon was launched, be forced to remove the quote feature even for internal use once and for all? Should they be forced to defederate from Mastodon? Should Mastodon in turn deliberately be forced to become incompatible with everything else (which will not work against multi-protocol platforms like Friendica and Hubzilla)?Where are the LGBTQIA+ activists? Why don't they take a stand? Where is their public "quotes are harassment" campaign against Pleroma, Akkoma, MissKey, CalcKey, FoundKey, Socialhome, GoToSocial, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) etc. etc., openly declaring all these projects homophobic and transphobic for holding on to their quote features?Instead, most of them still do as if the Fediverse was only Mastodon. They seem to try to convince themselves that all those projects which both support quotes and federate with Mastodon don't exist, if they know that these projects exist, that is. I don't know what they do if someone comes and tries to tell them about the world outside Mastodon. Do they immediately block these people? Do they proverbially cover their ears and chant?If the world really needed it, Frendica would be experiencing massive growth and it is not.That isn't because the world needs something as frugal as Mastodon more than something as elaborate as Friendica.That is purely because the world doesn't know that Friendica exists, and it never knew. People don't migrate by the millions to an online project of which they don't know that it exists. Otherwise, Friendica could have exploded as early as July 2010, and Diaspora*, which at the same time was developed as the free, decentralised, distributed Facebook killer and backed by several $100,000 in crowdfunding, would have been stillborn or never released in the first place.From late October to early December 2022, some seven or eight million Twitter users were channeled not into the Fediverse, but directly to Mastodon, often even to one specific Mastodon instance to spare them from having to choose one. None of them was told that there's more to the Fediverse than Mastodon.They could easily spend November, December, January, February and March "knowing" that the Fediverse is only Mastodon and not knowing about any of the alternatives. I'm pretty certain that being initially given the choice between Mastodon and Akkoma, every other one of them would have picked Akkoma just like Linus Torvalds did.Why didn't they pick Akkoma? Or Friendica? Because they didn't know that Akkoma or Friendica exists, because nobody told them, because all they were ever told about was one Mastodon instance. They could easily spend three months not even noticing that Mastodon itself is decentral and has instances.And when they finally learned about there being other stuff on the Fediverse than Mastodon after four months, it was already too late. Moving from Mastodon to another project is too much of a hassle and often not worth it, also because you can neither take your toots nor those who follow you nor your uploaded media with you.Oh, and by the way: Just a few weeks ago, MissKey experienced an enormous wave of new users in Japan who went from Twitter straight to MissKey without any stopover on Mastodon. And MissKey has quotes, too.
(DIR) Post #AUY8ItCDBuBjVpt6Ei by LucyWildboots@c.im
2023-04-11T03:49:43Z
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@jupiter_rowland I keep hearing that itâs hard to move. But I did it. It took me 3 hours and it only took that long because I wanted to separate my following to three different services. One was Pixelfed and the other was Frendica. Perhaps it did not take me so long because Iâm not as invested in my own posts as others appear to be. So this, âitâs hardâ excuse feels a little weak to me. I do not understand why it is so hard for people who communicate in the world of defederation to understand that not all tools using the fediverse need be the same. You really need to get over it. Tumblr is not going to have the same tools as Masto or Frendica and you arenât going to require that they do. Every company that uses ActivityPub will bring different features and thatâs how it should be. So why must everything be the same here? Getting every member of the queer and trans communities to agree on any one thing is like asking all Democrats to agree on any one thing. And I think you, Jupiter, are smart enough to know that. So let me ask you, which one do you want? Peter Thiel or me? George Santos or Rachel Maddow? The fact that people were harassed is a truth. The fact that you do not know that truth speaks to your lack of knowledge, not to the veracity or the historical fact. So let me ask you a question: how many? How many people have to come forward with their moment on Twitter when they were harassed and brought to tears. How many people need to be deliberately dead named or doxxed. How many is enough for you?
(DIR) Post #AUY8ItxMMbtzs3wkj2 by jo@blahaj.zone
2023-04-11T04:06:17.471Z
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@LucyWildboots@c.im Equally, there's plenty of queer trans folk like myself who are on trans-run instances that have QTs and have never seen them used for abuse across the instances we're federated with, despite all the panic from those who said it would bring just the same harassment against us as the other place had. @jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
(DIR) Post #AUY8Iun7GBIoSaA5Oi by LucyWildboots@c.im
2023-04-11T04:20:55Z
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@jo @jupiter_rowland Iâm happy for you. I certainly celebrate those who have had that luxury. I guess that the rest of us should stop âpanickingâ that the assholes who did these things will come to the fediverse and do the same thing? We have consistency of application of rules across instances, right? Or perhaps we should be less hysterical in our concerns that we might get stuck on a queer instance where you arenât allowed to discuss certain games. I mean, I hear itâs so damn hard to move from one place to another. I cannot believe you actually used panic to denigrate people who give a shit. What an entitled comment.
(DIR) Post #AUY8IvNd4QVeHpFFJI by MetalSamurai@mas.to
2023-04-11T09:32:23Z
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@LucyWildboots @jo @jupiter_rowland There are strong feelings on both sides of this, which is going to result in emotive language. Iâve definitely seen celebrities dunking on small accounts and driving them off Twitter. But also, I use QT myself - mostly to add context or to refer back to my own previous posts.
(DIR) Post #AUY8IwO1KSPtPKR4Yi by MetalSamurai@mas.to
2023-04-11T09:34:01Z
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@LucyWildboots @jo @jupiter_rowland My confirmation bias means I believe all the studies saying itâs not the tool that causes harassment, as people intent on harassing will use any method available, including simple replies, to cause harm. The fix is cultural, not technical, although speed bumps and guide rails probably help to nudge behaviour away from unwanted and towards more positive community behaviour. Maybe.
(DIR) Post #AUY8Iww3Hvdf6sMFbU by LucyWildboots@c.im
2023-04-11T17:35:26Z
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@MetalSamurai @jo @jupiter_rowland âItâs not the gun that kills people. Itâs people using the guns who kill people?â Am I the only one old enough to remember that canard from the NRA in America? And America, because it loves its guns, buys into it. So we create laws that nudge gun rights this way and that without ever really getting anywhere. And when something bad happens we wring our hands and offer thoughts and prayers. And Europe, with itâs own bloody past, looks on condescendingly and tsks.âQTs donât hurt people. People using QTs hurt people.âSo how many QTs have to hurt someone before we admit they can be used as weapons of verbal war and treat them accordingly and where are the âtskersâ? Note: This is an analogy for those who donât recognize them as such. This is not a position one way or another on guns or gun control.
(DIR) Post #AUY9poFCiqLVfJY5RY by jo@blahaj.zone
2023-04-11T17:43:01.256Z
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@LucyWildboots@c.im 37 studies dispel the myth that it's quote tweets that were the problem on Twitter. Sorry, but those who keep saying it is despite the wealth of evidence and the reality that the #Fediverse operates on completely different mechanisms to the other place, are engaging in unsubstantiated moral panic. There are 1 million users on Fediverse platforms that have a quote post feature, most of them on microblogging platforms like #Calckey #Misskey #Akkoma that are similar to #Mastodon and interact at-large with Mastodon users. https://blahaj.zone/notes/9a4skxq0lw@MetalSamurai@mas.to @jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
(DIR) Post #AUY9pow69MenoLcLIm by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-11T17:56:10Z
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@jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland @LucyWildboots Not exactly disputing those studies, but every time I got dogpiled at the other place, it was because a large account had QT'd me to tens of thousands of their own followers with some snarky comment. That hasn't happened so far on the fedi.Granted, I have hundreds of followers rather than the thousands I had over there, and try to keep a lower profile, but still... đ¤
(DIR) Post #AUYBUFdwNAmmBAy1Eu by jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
2023-04-11T08:33:58Z
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@LucyWildboots đłď¸âđI keep hearing that itâs hard to move. But I did it. It took me 3 hours and it only took that long because I wanted to separate my following to three different services. One was Pixelfed and the other was Frendica. Perhaps it did not take me so long because Iâm not as invested in my own posts as others appear to be. So this, âitâs hardâ excuse feels a little weak to me.You did it, yes, I acknowledge that. But I doubt that it's easy-peasy for a complete tech-illiterate. Mastodon doesn't offer a "three click" transfer tool like Friendica or especially Hubzilla, especially not to somewhere outside Mastodon.The biggest obstacle is that when you're on Mastodon, and you move somewhere else, anywhere else, and be it another Mastodon instance, you have to start over with a blank slate, only populated with those whom you follow. You have to abandon your old toots, you have to abandon your one-sided followers, and you have to re-connect your mutual followers.I do not understand why it is so hard for people who communicate in the world of defederation to understand that not all tools using the fediverse need be the same.Let me try to explain once more.You do know that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon. You know projects like Friendica. You even use them.But by far most Mastodon newcomers don't know that. They don't know Friendica. They don't know Pleroma. They don't know Akkoma. They don't know MissKey. And so forth. They don't know that there is anything else in the Fediverse than Mastodon. In their worldview, the Fediverse is Mastodon.So if they want a feature which Mastodon doesn't have, what do they do? Move to Akkoma which has that feature? No, because they don't know that Akkoma exists. No, what they do is pester Eugen Rochko with requests to include this feature into Mastodon.You really need to get over it. Tumblr is not going to have the same tools as Masto or Frendica and you arenât going to require that they do. Every company that uses ActivityPub will bring different features and thatâs how it should be. So why must everything be the same here?What exactly makes you believe this is my thinking? For it isn't.My most popular post so far with currently 281 likes and 143 comments in less than one month is titled, "Re-inventing the federated wheel because you don't know that wheels exist". And it is about just that. It is about people demanding new features on Mastodon which are readily available on other Fediverse projects, just because these people don't know that other Fediverse projects exist.Why did I write it? I keep reading about people wanting quotes on Mastodon. Or text formatting. Or more than 500 characters per toot. Every single time, I want to go to them, grab them by their shoulders, shake them and tell them, "Go join Akkoma! Akkoma has quotes, Akkoma has text formatting, Akkoma has no character limit whatsoever, and you can still connect to everyone on Mastodon! Mastodon doesn't need this feature if you can get it elsewhere!"And I can guarantee you, if I did this, it would be the very first time that these people ever learn about there being something else in the Fediverse than Mastodon.I've got over 300 followers, and the majority of them isn't interested in the main topic of my channel. No, they follow me because it was my posts from which they've learned that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon. They're probably irritated whenever I write about virtual worlds because they expect me to teach them and the rest of Mastodon about the Fediverse outside Mastodon.I've actually read a toot in which someone said there should be a Mastodon bot which automatically boosts my posts straight to everyone who writes about Mastodon being the Fediverse and demands new features on Mastodon which are readily available in the Fediverse outside Mastodon.Getting every member of the queer and trans communities to agree on any one thing is like asking all Democrats to agree on any one thing. And I think you, Jupiter, are smart enough to know that. So let me ask you, which one do you want? Peter Thiel or me? George Santos or Rachel Maddow?What if I told you that I am not a U.S. citizen? That I'm living in Europe? In Germany which is pretty left-wing even for European standards? In a city which is even pretty left-wing for German standards, by the way, and which has its own annual Christopher Street Day parade?This means I'm as unfamiliar with these names as you may be with names like BjĂśrn HĂścke or Rosa von Praunheim.The fact that people were harassed is a truth. The fact that you do not know that truth speaks to your lack of knowledge, not to the veracity or the historical fact. So let me ask you a question: how many? How many people have to come forward with their moment on Twitter when they were harassed and brought to tears. How many people need to be deliberately dead named or doxxed. How many is enough for you?You're putting words in my mouth. I have been aware of the situation of the LGBTQIA+ community on Twitter long before your post.But I don't write about social topics. I write about technology. It's unwise to ask me for solutions on the social side of things, but I could suggest solutions on the technological side.You, in turn, still haven't answered my question: What is the LGBTQIA+ community's attitude towards people on Pleroma, Akkoma, MissKey, CalcKey and FoundKey being able to QT Mastodon toots with no technical obstacles whatsoever with these QTs re-appearing on Mastodon afterwards? If you're strictly against QTs on Mastodon, what is your stance on already available QTs on Pleroma, Akkoma, MissKey, CalcKey and FoundKey?
(DIR) Post #AUYBUGGE4pPW5usaum by LucyWildboots@c.im
2023-04-11T17:12:21Z
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@jupiter_rowland For years my sig line was a quote from a man well respected in community development circles. A wise man who still helps with one of the oldest of online communities. He said, âNever let engineers dictate the user experience.â I would hate for Mr. Rheingold to be right about this too.
(DIR) Post #AUYBlouEWHsoT3xuKG by jo@blahaj.zone
2023-04-11T18:06:15.670Z
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@BarrenPlanet@c.im And those kind of interactions really wouldn't be tolerated here. It was only three months ago that the instance that you and @LucyWildboots@c.im are on was threatened with defederation by multiple parties on Fediblock due to complaints about a bunch of reply guys there being insufficiently moderated. @MetalSamurai@mas.to @jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
(DIR) Post #AUYBlpNektQ1wJjPBg by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-11T18:17:52Z
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@jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland @LucyWildboots I'm aware there was an issue with moderation, however it seems to have been largely due to overworked admins following the Great Migration, more than anything - and it was properly dealt with eventually. We do now have an additional admin which should hopefully enable us to avoid future moderation failures, and respond more promptly to complaints.I hear what you're saying about it being harder to get away with being an asshole on the fedi, that's a fair point.
(DIR) Post #AUYGEaJMGGYfPwglFo by LucyWildboots@c.im
2023-04-11T19:07:53Z
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@BarrenPlanet @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland Moderation on Masto is a myth. From a userâs perspective, you are trapped between how your instance moderates and how other instances moderate. And if they are a bully in moderation then you donât even get the luxury of only having to use the rules of your server, you also have to follow the rules of their server. And should you choose to say, oh, âyouâre a Nazi and you should kill yourself,â thereâs nothing to stop you from saying it and then deleting your post. From the moderation side, you can delete or defederated. There is little to no user education or onboarding. There is no problem solving. If someone harassed me on c.im I have not clue who to even contact for help. There is no agreement across instances as to what âbe niceâ means (but I promise we donât all agree). I live in delight and despair at the cluster this is going to be when places like Tumblr join the fediverse. CompuServe, thirty years ago and text-based had better tools. For all we denigrate the old services and walled communities, many of them actually had more tools than what you have here. the Fediverse is not yet ready for prime-time and Iâve never met a service (FB, Insta & Twitter included), with less interest in itâs users than the fediverse.
(DIR) Post #AUYGt3zdKAB73clRz6 by LucyWildboots@c.im
2023-04-11T18:45:23Z
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@jo You know, before I was on c.im, Pixelfed and Frendica I was on mastodon.lol One day, I had an instance where I was safe from harassment. Where when someone acted against you, you knew someone would do something about it. And the literal next day, that was all gone because some people wanted to change the rules of the instance on the fly to meet the overly-delicate, finely-wrought sensibilities of one group of queers. The first group wasnât breaking the rules of .lol but they must still be censored. And the instance owner who was burned out and trying to do the right thing, went âfuck it.â And a narrative was crafted by the people who had inserted themselves into another instances business. A story that the instance owner was unstable and that was the cause of all the problems. They even had âproofâ of the bad things he had said. And only on Reddit does another truth come out that negates that narrative. Some people were telling him to kill himself and then deleting their posts. I know. I saved a copy of the Reddit post. Iâm thinking of sending the whole thing to the Way Back Machine as instructional. Those are facts. Just like your studies, it doesnât tell the full story. Just like your studies, it tells a story in a light that is deliberately meant to make one faction look âpanickyâ while the other looks âreasonable.â Just like your argument it ignores the fact that people have already said, âI have seen it being used as a weapon.â And not anti-QT people. Just every day people from Twitter. And just like your argument it doesnât answer the question: how many have to get hurt so you can prove yourselves right? I can tell you that it was 19K people who got hurt the last time one tiny group inflicted their âhystericalâ needs upon another group of queers. And while I do not remember all of the folks ready to pile on, I do remember one of the main âminders of other peopleâs business.â The instance name was so distinctive. And as I told Jupiter, I check who is who before I post to them. Isnât it interesting how words like panic or hysterical are a little more impactful depending on how a story is being told and by whom. So please, donât even talk to me if youâre going to bring words like that to the table. They are either being used deliberately to diminish the feelings of one group or youâre tone-deaf and stupid. Either way, you have nothing further to say to me of interest.@MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland
(DIR) Post #AUYGt4nGLdsRXXz5LE by brennansv@sfba.social
2023-04-11T18:54:48Z
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@LucyWildboots Fortunately Mastodon is not centralized so you can move to another server. Though I believe server admins could run multiple domains which could operate under different policies while sharing the server infra to host multiple domains. I once ran many websites with Apache Web Server on my co-located server and updating the software and server hardware upgraded every website. Admins definitely need all the support we can give them. Without ad revenue some may just burn out and shut down.
(DIR) Post #AUYHMntLkkpBo80TCa by amart@hachyderm.io
2023-04-11T19:20:32Z
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@BarrenPlanet @fediversenews @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland @LucyWildboots Be patient with this old guy for a second whoâs never been dogpiled.This post of yours Iâm responding to has an image of your post - took all of 1-2 seconds. If a malicious actor did this plus put your handle in text making it easy for their sub-human malicious sycophants to find you, is this any different from a native QT re: enabling dogpiling?
(DIR) Post #AUYHtDyUJTF1y7rxGi by LucyWildboots@c.im
2023-04-11T19:23:46Z
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@brennansv .lol was funded. We even forced the instance owner to take a small stipend (he wouldnât take more). And .lolâs problems werenât solely caused by other instances minding our business. Itâs why mentorship for small and growing instances is on my list of things we need as well. But moderation isnât a hardware issue amd becoming a wandering account isnât a solution for most people. At that point it will become a slightly deflated version of My Space. Now unless @gargon was lying, he isnât spending his time eating hamburger for dinner because he wanted to build another MySpace. But thatâs where weâre headed.
(DIR) Post #AUYMP8RaoJxvtoxEyO by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-11T20:17:02Z
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@amart @fediversenews @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland @LucyWildboots Oh hey, don't worry, I'm no Reply Guy (I hope!). The thing with Masto is that lots of tiny little design choices, together with differing cultural norms, have the cumulative impact of dampening some of the hostility you see on other platforms. So yes, you're correct: you can still sort-of QT by using a screencap and linking to the toot in the body text.But as Lucy says, it's clunky. At the other place, your mentions could be flooded even if no-one took the time to visit your TL, because you got tagged in to the 700 people slagging you off elsewhere for having a contrarian view on NATO or US foreign policy, or daring to suggest the "antisemitism crisis" in the UK Labour Party had perhaps been somewhat sensationalized for political reasons.Being progressive or left-wing at the hellsite made you a target for organised campaigns of abuse and harrassment. Of course that still happens here, but it's more difficult to sustain.
(DIR) Post #AUYMV7ODdyi0MnEHiq by LucyWildboots@c.im
2023-04-11T19:50:16Z
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@amart it is not different on Masto. You can QT now on Masto, but itâs kludgy as I think you discovered. On Frendica you can easily QT or you can turn QT off in your settings. CalKey and several others also have QT. But these apps are tiny compared to Masto.So the discussion isnât really QT doesnât already exist and must never be created. Itâs more a discussion of âWhy donât we onboard people to the best tool for them be it Masto, Calkey, Frendica or Pixelfedâ vs âwe want easy QT on Masto because thatâs where weâve been for a whole four months and moving is hard.â It is also a discussion on why we allow tools to be improved and propagated without ever discussing the damage those tools have historically caused others and what damage to others they are willing to risk to get a tool they can already have if they simply changed from Masto to a half dozen other apps.I believe that Masto will eventually get some form of QT. What I hope is that we will get all the backend tools that will be needed to support 13 million people better than Twitter and Facebook ever did. That we will get onboarding not just for Masto but also for the fediverse as a whole. That we will get dozens of other tools and features we need more first. @BarrenPlanet @fediversenews @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland
(DIR) Post #AUYMV7vXe5Mc28otf6 by johnb48@mastodon.online
2023-04-11T20:16:26Z
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@LucyWildboots @amart @BarrenPlanet @fediversenews @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland what is QT?
(DIR) Post #AUYMV8b19sXa6mE1JI by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-11T20:18:05Z
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@johnb48 @LucyWildboots @amart @fediversenews @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland Quote tweet. It's like a boost only with your own comment above it.
(DIR) Post #AUYNpIhBQ0EpB2Hs92 by LucyWildboots@c.im
2023-04-11T20:32:57Z
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@BarrenPlanet @johnb48 @amart @fediversenews @jo @MetalSamurai Actually, thatâs not quite correct and it is one of the points where abuse can begin. Boost notes a post and all of its replies. A copy of that is now on your TL, but further replies will remain with the original post/thread and out of the reposters control.A quote tweet commands âquote this information on my TL with my additional comment above it.â By moving it to your timeline, any responses to that QT remain with it and do not join the original conversation. It breaks the conversation and allows you to gain control of the post. Some people use it to repost their writings on other services ad nauseam. (Reporters) But others use it to harass and intimidate people with whom they disagree (Christianists). And if my post is in that snippet you took and reposted, I may not even know you did it and I have no way to protect myself in advance from yours or your followers attack. Or you may take my words and QT them to doxx my personal information out to the world (every group is guilty).
(DIR) Post #AUa8b78IV98aGWfPSS by HistoPol@mastodon.social
2023-04-12T16:51:43Z
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@BarrenPlanet @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland @LucyWildboots But I could easily do this on #mastodon, too!Copy your text w/ or w/o quotation marks, put your handle, as well as a link to your too and, voilĂ !What really is the difference?
(DIR) Post #AUa9m5W8woIGOYcKiO by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-12T17:04:55Z
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@HistoPol @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland @LucyWildboots I think the answer, insofar as their is one, is that habitual trolls are so incredibly lazy and cowardly, that even that *teensy* bit of extra effort gets them scouting around for an easier target. Screenshot, crop, attach, link and paste a handle every time?! Nah, I just want to yell at a stranger and disregard all social boundaries.And most people who enjoy trolling don't have the smarts or the focus, to even figure out how to consistently use the tech that enables some semblance of a QT.
(DIR) Post #AUaAZAUbEs9k0yIZHc by HistoPol@mastodon.social
2023-04-12T17:13:47Z
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@BarrenPlanet @amart @fediversenews @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland @LucyWildboots I really wonder why it never was a major issue for me there despite over 20k of tweets, now that you put it in writing âď¸.
(DIR) Post #AUaBYXwqe6cIQRmM52 by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-04-12T17:24:54Z
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@HistoPol @amart @fediversenews @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland @LucyWildboots Probably because you don't specialize in controversial views? Not only do I not try to hide mine, I state them stridently and uncompromisingly. And that makes me catnip for people who are seeking to silence ideas that come from outside of the Overton Window.I've a thick enough skin to not care too much, by now, but I still prefer not to wake up to dozens or even hundreds of rabid attempts to intimidate, threaten, dox, bully or harass me.Why we don't tend to see as much of that on the fedi is open to discussion. I'm not taking sides in this race because I've no dog in it. All I really know is that it works better for me, personally.
(DIR) Post #AUaKBd7CAVtjNSlYYK by HistoPol@mastodon.social
2023-04-12T19:01:33Z
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@BarrenPlanet @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland @LucyWildboots I get the screenshot part, ok, but copy and paste?--not that much effort + /s: you can savor it longer that you are about to trash a person. /s
(DIR) Post #AUaOl9GX1buF2iKDXk by HistoPol@mastodon.social
2023-04-12T19:52:49Z
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@BarrenPlanet @amart @fediversenews @jo @MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland @LucyWildboots 𤣠𤣠Quite apparently you never did see my #Resist tweets in the runup to the last two #US elections.I would like to sign how you eloquently phrase it,but there is no quote function here. đ
(DIR) Post #AUaQyhLhoZEWQKKlai by peterbutler@mas.to
2023-04-12T19:44:25Z
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@mathias @bgtlover @AskPippa @raccoon Thereâs no single reason Twitter failed, but to me, the biggest reason by far is the lack of moderation
(DIR) Post #AUaQyiLO7EZbVdC1jc by freakinbox@mastodon.social
2023-04-12T19:51:59Z
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@peterbutler @mathias @bgtlover @AskPippa @raccoon since most of the staff was axed moderation has been weaponized by the very people it is supposed to stop.... Which to be fair is typical capitalism. đ
đĽ´It's honestly the same situation Facebook did a few years back when people all started migrating away from them.
(DIR) Post #AUaQyj7xCfQBwFuoQy by AHU4y5aWnraB3XHz0a.mxtthxw@mxtthxw.art
2023-04-12T19:54:44Z
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@freakinbox @peterbutler @mathias @bgtlover @AskPippa @raccoon the biggest reason for Twitter failing is that itâs shit.