Post AUPgph4oAFHlPJeREW by Marcducharme@mstdn.ca
(DIR) More posts by Marcducharme@mstdn.ca
(DIR) Post #AUPE79s0qSyNXiZGd6 by stux@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T10:31:34Z
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How often do people 'that really HATE the West' declade such messages on devices build by western countries :flan_laugh: "I HATE THE WEST" - while typing on an iPhone, you know :blobcatgiggle: Or Putler saying they can easily live without the West while talking into a Bosch mic No, you can't live in luxery without the west
(DIR) Post #AUPEFrMT1ub8kFxhQm by wolfensteijn@urface.social
2023-04-07T10:33:11Z
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@stux Both the iPhone and the Bosch microphone are made in China 😉At least, I know the iPhone is. Haven't looked into Bosch mic production chains.
(DIR) Post #AUPEHgXMFHS5kkvUau by stux@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T10:33:33Z
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@wolfensteijn No... they are produced in ChinaNot made
(DIR) Post #AUPEJqEBBdjQO4z4Iy by expertenkommision_cyberunfall@mastodon.social
2023-04-07T10:33:57Z
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@stux there is always an replacement from china ;)
(DIR) Post #AUPELx0uvXxe0smpJw by stux@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T10:34:17Z
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@expertenkommision_cyberunfall But you'll have to have an example from the West first :ed_grin:
(DIR) Post #AUPESoW8umSxgnfGUq by frank@f.reun.de
2023-04-07T10:35:27Z
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@stux How many people think "I hate iPhones" while using an iPhone? 😆
(DIR) Post #AUPEUUo9AKf98kt6zw by stux@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T10:35:52Z
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@frank hahaha thats a different matter :blobcatgiggle: :flan_laugh:
(DIR) Post #AUPF5mcjtBHt6tKeCe by peteriskrisjanis@toot.lv
2023-04-07T10:42:31Z
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@stux ohh they don't hate West. They hate parts of West that doesn't indulge their whims. Especially that sense of lack of control over things you don't like.Like putler hating West lol. Most of his family lives there. He just hates West that stands against his visions of grandeur.
(DIR) Post #AUPFezRCEu9ezFikmu by edendestroyer@masto.ai
2023-04-07T10:48:59Z
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@stux I do not hate the west given that most of my education came from people that live in the west and most people who accept me for who i am are western people, what i do hate is western capitalism and white supremacy.
(DIR) Post #AUPFif2c0zxmt1yL7g by swinehorse@mastodon.nl
2023-04-07T10:49:37Z
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@stux met alle respect maar een iphone wordt ook gewoon in china gemaakt.
(DIR) Post #AUPGP7inlvbE03xCIS by vitaminsludge@mastodon.ie
2023-04-07T10:57:18Z
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@stux The ones that hate it the most actually live in the west on their golden passports.
(DIR) Post #AUPGsXcUYuLCih1uhE by pre@boing.world
2023-04-07T11:02:35Z
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@stux Course we don't know what kind of global luxury we could be living in if capitalism hadn't oppressed everyone and given all the rewards to the few capital owners.Maybe we'd have fully automatic luxury space communism by now if it wasn't for those capitalist pigs hoarding everything and oppressing the poor.Counter factuals are hard. We use our biases to imagine a counter factual world then use it to confirm our biases.For the last 50 years or so the fastest growing economy in the world is the communist one.
(DIR) Post #AUPJY2VWpKg4IVgjvU by calculsoberic@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T11:32:32Z
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@stux People do that with BIPOC a lot too. They don't realize that a lot of the inventions they use were created by people of color or transgender people.
(DIR) Post #AUPJbI11coIpGOyEQS by Bluedepth@mastodon.social
2023-04-07T11:33:06Z
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@stux This was actually a lesson in college. Modernization without Westernization. The example was a sink in a hotel in an underdeveloped country. It had a cold and hot tap for water, but only the cold worked. The hot was for looks. It’s similar to what you mentioned…
(DIR) Post #AUPLBAJFqwNrk8ATI0 by Marcducharme@mstdn.ca
2023-04-07T11:50:46Z
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@stux Fair, but the West is dying, and the iPhone is killing it.people feel that, and react. Some want the West and it’s capitalist, colonial bullshit to die already, and for the new civilization to die already. Some cling to the old ways, and spur the far-right to violence. But it’s a mess, because we don’t see that all the old civilizations are choking to death on cheap data and non-geographic community, and nobody is framing the problem in those terms.
(DIR) Post #AUPNFBvdyU7NpcAhYe by dictvm@chaos.social
2023-04-07T12:13:51Z
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@stux @wolfensteijn what do you think "making" means?Creating CAD models on a computer?
(DIR) Post #AUPNOu03ULLR7crj0q by dictvm@chaos.social
2023-04-07T12:15:39Z
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@stux "You can't criticize capitalism if you have an iPhone or if you earn money yourself"Gatekeeping is a bullshit distraction.
(DIR) Post #AUPXBpbiO2fOQL1bWa by swinehorse@mastodon.nl
2023-04-07T10:51:28Z
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@stux met grondstoffen uit bijv afrika en china
(DIR) Post #AUPXBq9kLVtA7swmZM by ueltzen@mastodon.social
2023-04-07T11:57:00Z
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@swinehorse @stux Met chips uit Taiwan, geproduceerd met machines uit Nederland, ontworpen van bedrijven in de west.China kan nog steeds geen moderne chips produceren en werd het in ons leeftijd waarschijnlijk ook nooit kunnen.
(DIR) Post #AUPXBqtpaAkgQoVaOu by swinehorse@mastodon.nl
2023-04-07T14:03:37Z
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@ueltzen @stux ben benieuwd
(DIR) Post #AUPXBrQ5eEYY2rbLgO by stux@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T14:05:11Z
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@swinehorse @ueltzen Geproduceerd inderdaad maar ze zijn ontworpen in het westen :ablobwink: De meeste dingen op dat gebied komt uit het westen en anders wordt het als voorbeeld gebruikt om na te makenProductie en creatie zijn niet hetzelfde
(DIR) Post #AUPcTWhFfzsz1jo728 by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T15:04:41Z
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@wolfensteijn @stux This is changing though. iPhones are increasingly being assembled in India. Their silicon is made in Taiwan.
(DIR) Post #AUPcclUI3Mz5VT9Lsm by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T15:06:22Z
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@edendestroyer @stux Western capitalism? As opposed to Chinese capitalism? Russian capitalism? Japanese capitalism? Indonesian capitalism? Indian capitalism? Nigerian capitalism?
(DIR) Post #AUPcjYulCLJCXTlw5g by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T15:07:36Z
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@pre @stux There is no such thing as a communist economy. Go read more Lenin.
(DIR) Post #AUPcwNuDRKFSA0dE7E by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T15:09:55Z
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@Marcducharme @stux Nonsense. "The West" is growing. We bring in a lot of immigrants to ensure we don't meet demographic collapse as badly as the places that do not bring in immigrants.
(DIR) Post #AUPcxVcaErjkNav8Lo by pre@boing.world
2023-04-07T15:10:04Z
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@bananarama @stux There's no such thing as the economy at all! It's made up. Like countries and words and money.
(DIR) Post #AUPd0KZ5nnvUxRdJho by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T15:10:37Z
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@dictvm @stux There is no criticism of capitalism going on here, at all. China is capitalist. Russia is capitalist.
(DIR) Post #AUPd3cB2mFu2RvwzXk by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T15:11:13Z
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@pre @stux That's not how that works, nice try though. Things that are made up do actually exist, that's why social constructs matter and why we study them.
(DIR) Post #AUPe74neulz42pE87k by dictvm@chaos.social
2023-04-07T15:23:01Z
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@bananarama what I was trying to say is this: You don't get to disqualify people's criticism only because they participate in what they're against. "You can't be against the West because the West made it possible for you to have an iPhone"Which isn't as smart a take as one might assume after thinking it through for more than a minute.@stux
(DIR) Post #AUPeBgm7fKguyshwR6 by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T15:23:53Z
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@dictvm @stux That's not what stux wrote though, at all. So, nice strawman, I guess?
(DIR) Post #AUPeGtbfO1FSDzIeTw by pre@boing.world
2023-04-07T15:24:47Z
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@bananarama @stux So then why did Lenin say there's no such thing and why should we trust that idiot over what the Chinese themselves say about the way their economy and country are managed?
(DIR) Post #AUPeHSx9y6ElqmcoLI by dictvm@chaos.social
2023-04-07T15:24:54Z
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@bananarama read the initial post you're replying to and then please explain how it isn't saying exactly that. @stux
(DIR) Post #AUPeTGHIv5hM0wfijI by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T15:27:03Z
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@dictvm @stux "Or Putler saying they can easily live without the West while talking into a Bosch mic No, you can't live in luxery without the west"Nobody needs an iPhone to communicate. They are 100% luxury devices. If you're serious about this shit, go get a PinePhone and pay for a security audit.
(DIR) Post #AUPeZbDJzh1ggOpaaG by dictvm@chaos.social
2023-04-07T15:28:10Z
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@bananarama you just quoted the one sentence I wasn't referring to. Are you ok?@stux
(DIR) Post #AUPegS9S5PSUbTI03c by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T15:29:27Z
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@dictvm @stux So it *was* a strawman.
(DIR) Post #AUPenI8jhuora2DPo8 by dictvm@chaos.social
2023-04-07T15:30:39Z
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@bananarama if that makes you feel smarter and keeps you out of my mentions, sure. @stux
(DIR) Post #AUPf3x3TLzOp6qhIWG by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T15:33:41Z
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@dictvm @stux Maybe don't shove words into people's mouths and expect not to be called out.
(DIR) Post #AUPgph4oAFHlPJeREW by Marcducharme@mstdn.ca
2023-04-07T15:53:29Z
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@bananarama @stux Civilisation is about more than population support and economics. It’s about culture and moral values, how technology is used, and about the shared aims of the people. The values of pluralism that underpin support for immigration didn’t really exist in the West a hundred or so years ago. That’s new, and it’s far from universally accepted even now, but as the people change and the old ways of thinking die, it becomes more accepted every day.
(DIR) Post #AUPhk2r8NMQBAi7r0a by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T16:03:42Z
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@pre @stux Nobody should trust Lenin (at all imo) or Marx anymore than any other author, however they are the ones erroneously credited with the idea of a "communist" economy.China does not claim to have a communist economy any more than Lenin did with the USSR.
(DIR) Post #AUPhwi7wkxIqeB1rhQ by pre@boing.world
2023-04-07T16:05:58Z
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@bananarama @stux Well, presumably they're using Chinese words. What do they say then?If the state doesn't own and manage most of the economy why is everyone so terrified of TikTok?
(DIR) Post #AUPhxGf6MC1fkqnp68 by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T16:06:06Z
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@Marcducharme @stux You're probably in a minority in Canada though. Canadian culture has come to be about multiculturalism rather than assimilation. There are still distinct regional native/franco/anglo cultures.
(DIR) Post #AUPij5SXJMj4uUj9eq by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T16:14:44Z
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@pre @stux Deng Xiaoping and Xi Jinping call it socialism with Chinese characteristics. Here we'd call it either state capitalism (a la Lenin) or market socialism. In many ways, China's economy is capitalist. Private ownership is very prevalent there, though it always comes second to the state. Many US style libertarians love China because of how easy it is to do stuff, there's less bureaucracy for a lot of actions.Calling anything but the party communist is probably an error.
(DIR) Post #AUPj4wxZanfav8fZei by pre@boing.world
2023-04-07T16:18:39Z
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Okay, so the fastest growing economy during my life was administered by a communist party under the precepts of socialism with Chinese characteristics.Thanks for helping me get the phrasing right.
(DIR) Post #AUPjEI5kOVEx49wmHY by bananarama@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T16:20:23Z
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@pre @stux The state does not really manage the economy in the way that Cuba and the USSR do or did.The concern over TikTok is not primarily economic in nature, from what I understand. It's more about propaganda, in the archaic sense.
(DIR) Post #AUPknN59vo9cdKxnVo by edendestroyer@masto.ai
2023-04-07T16:37:54Z
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@bananarama @stux what the fuck is this whataboutism? what in the actual fuck?
(DIR) Post #AUQCPUwdqP0AmlNspM by kantor@mstdn.social
2023-04-07T21:47:17Z
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@stux does it imply that I have to be grateful to Erdogan or Turkey because I happen to wear a cheap Turkish t-shirt?
(DIR) Post #AUZzjZNoS6YubxshGK by marsikus@mastodon.social
2023-04-12T15:12:20Z
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@stux Putler loves Soviet Union, where whole industrialization was made by mostly American businesses.