Post AUMxbPPRY3Vwt57jXM by Kitone@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by Kitone@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AUMZV32FQLx2rFhyL2 by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-06T03:46:23Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
"What It's Like To Stop Using Google Search"Most of the time I don't notice a thing ...... because a surprisingly large fraction of my searches are navigational ("where's the site for that *thing* again?") or informational at a level that's trivially easy for any search service at allSo the actual cost of switching is ... pretty low(DuckDuckGo's my main search these days)My essay on it: https://debugger.medium.com/what-its-like-to-stop-using-google-search-fbdf9919c551"Friend" link if you're not a Medium subscriber: https://debugger.medium.com/what-its-like-to-stop-using-google-search-fbdf9919c551?sk=723a09d252b9f8558f08e1551b2b6896
(DIR) Post #AUMaBOkf4cCuN9g0VU by jetjocko@mastodon.social
2023-04-06T03:54:02Z
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@clive but Clive! Exploratory search is the issue, right? That’s why people think they like chatbots. Highly trained symbolic analysts are not the modal user.
(DIR) Post #AUMdFsWUcqAXjBsS3s by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-06T04:28:28Z
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@jetjocko Correct!But I'm probably not writing this for the modal user, my audience is mostly super nerds 😂
(DIR) Post #AUMdMT0jsSn0d9AMqm by Coocho@lingo.lol
2023-04-06T04:29:17Z
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@clive I have to say I really really wanted to like DuckDuckGo and leave Google. It’s been my default browser for a couple of months now. But I do end up going to google many times a day since for research DDG doesn’t compare (even simple things like looking for an email address of a non-European academic) 😞
(DIR) Post #AUMdewMHVFMOrX3EtU by kyleford@hachyderm.io
2023-04-06T04:30:43Z
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@clive this matches my experience too, total shrug
(DIR) Post #AUMeG4yUQljQIedG2y by jetjocko@mastodon.social
2023-04-06T04:39:44Z
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@clive I’m going to name my newsletter “the modal user.” Or my bar.
(DIR) Post #AUMeTpSOvBtwE9BAxM by com@mastodon.social
2023-04-06T04:41:51Z
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@clive > I’d still prefer a search engine that … > If anyone’s working on that? Hit me up.I think kagi.com is what you’re looking for.
(DIR) Post #AUMftzo1ASzho3KcWO by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-06T04:58:09Z
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@Coocho Yeah, I use the bang commands in Vivaldi to route things to a google search if DDG doesn't immediately cough up something useful -- which can indeed happen with stuff like email addresses, etc!Google's crawl is just a lot more comprehensive than DDG's So anytime I'm searching for something that isn't in the fat tail of the most-obvious queries, google will beat DDG
(DIR) Post #AUMfzf2LIc0j87jW52 by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-06T04:58:26Z
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@jetjocko Bar, 100%
(DIR) Post #AUMg6UYYfC7SeX3iWO by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-06T04:58:52Z
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@com I've heard good things about it!
(DIR) Post #AUMgKJUGcCtwNOdtJY by he@aus.social
2023-04-06T05:01:41Z
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@clive I haven’t used Google search in a long while. Use DuckDuckGo
(DIR) Post #AUMgpUzdszYN2TBk5Q by creckling@mstdn.social
2023-04-06T05:08:32Z
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@clive related: the YouTube search results make me mental by interspersing “you also might like” and “watch again” results. Just show me the damn thing I searched for!
(DIR) Post #AUMhPV3N8ikheO6EmO by dbaplanb@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-04-06T05:14:46Z
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@clive Agree re Google! Re your final wish list (search engine without nudgy, “hey maybe I can help you formulate a better search result” crap; doesn’t try to answer my question for me; offers me only a list of links), you might look at Startpage: https://www.startpage.com/en/about-us -- there's a block of ads at the top (clearly marked) and sometimes one more ad at the bottom of a page), but no attempts to reformulate the search. Also tabs for web, images, video, news (but not shopping, flights, finance).
(DIR) Post #AUMiHZLLPEpOaoHvAO by tymwol@bayes.club
2023-04-06T05:24:31Z
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@clive Agree. I switched to DuckDuckGo a while ago and it works 99% of the time as good as Google served me. Rarely I g! something, but in such a case it's 50:50 if it's any better. Plus, every time I switch to Google I'm shocked how many ads and other trash vs results are there nowadays.
(DIR) Post #AUMiTpNPcW3pnJ6Iu8 by catfluoride@mastodon.social
2023-04-06T05:26:33Z
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@clive #searxng without Google all the way
(DIR) Post #AUMis7sKUhdA7J9GBE by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-06T05:31:09Z
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@tymwol Yep, same here Google has a better crawl, so it'll pick up stuff when I can't get it quickly with DDG ...... but lordy, the clotted ads and weird junk
(DIR) Post #AUMj2nofPi395eWgNc by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-06T05:33:24Z
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@dbaplanb Oooo, good call -- I'll give it a try. Thanks!
(DIR) Post #AUMkYyE2LdBGavINRQ by thepdog@mas.to
2023-04-06T05:50:21Z
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@clive Switched to DuckDuckGo permanently about 3 weeks ago.
(DIR) Post #AUMmH4Niv7SgNqPznM by ang6666@mastodon.social
2023-04-06T06:09:14Z
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@clive thank you for this. I have been tired of Google search for quite some time. This is what I need to try something else.
(DIR) Post #AUMnzkcHLz1m4I60jg by bassplayer@mas.to
2023-04-06T06:28:50Z
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@clive But DDG was caught not blocking MS trackers. AFAIK Brave search is better IMHO
(DIR) Post #AUMpihBd3IjaPrcrJI by euan@mstdn.social
2023-04-06T06:48:09Z
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@clive I’ve used DuckDuckGo for several years now quite happily since I stopped using all Google products.
(DIR) Post #AUMrHLz5yOe0kSqyJM by edendestroyer@masto.ai
2023-04-06T07:05:35Z
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@clive im on searx instances and sometimes on swisscows, works!
(DIR) Post #AUMskyYbju0WjR9XFI by Nates1984@tech.lgbt
2023-04-06T07:21:45Z
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@clive @dbaplanb I use @StartpageSearch as my default search engine!
(DIR) Post #AUMvGpVX7Y8Lq921Vw by MW1CFN@mastodon.radio
2023-04-06T07:50:20Z
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@clive I'm a decade down the line of non-Google use. And I have some very specialist, technical searches. Never a bother. Do it now!
(DIR) Post #AUMxbPPRY3Vwt57jXM by Kitone@mastodon.social
2023-04-06T08:16:28Z
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@clive Same here.
(DIR) Post #AUN7m727D5lacaxGAi by CottonEyedJo@toot.io
2023-04-06T10:10:01Z
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@clive thank you for the old text
(DIR) Post #AUNBEYB0BXX0mAMaKe by jcrabapple@dmv.community
2023-04-06T10:49:11Z
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@clive I've had a really good experience lately with #Kagi! I also think #Neeva is a good alternative to Google.
(DIR) Post #AUNMoUSQaXipA8r1JA by maximweinstein@mstdn.social
2023-04-06T12:58:33Z
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@clive I didn't realize how much I used Google Search as a conduit to Google Maps, business listings, etc., until I tried to switch to DuckDuckGo. The ability to easily pivot between search results and other services is what keeps me on Google.
(DIR) Post #AUNNpZ8SmUbFumanfk by lippyduck@mstdn.social
2023-04-06T13:10:17Z
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@clive Been using Duck almost exclusively for years now. It's mostly fine. Stupid little things though. + (include more), - (exclude more) should really work with more force. And narrowing by region is pretty much non-existent. When shopping for a product in the UK my trick is to add VAT to the search.
(DIR) Post #AUNOSgwzeuubRjstbk by 8lettersuk@mstdn.social
2023-04-06T13:17:21Z
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@clive and on the very few occasions I do not get many results I simply add !g before the search get redirected to google and realise why I stopped using it in the first place as the entire first page is filled with advertising...
(DIR) Post #AUNQbBGr0pPhhyLjxA by ElSupreme@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-04-06T13:41:15Z
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@cliveNot to mention Google and Bing barely indicate their ads, and throw you more ad results than real ones.And they aren't even good at searching anymore (see above gripe).@laserlotus
(DIR) Post #AUNTxgs2VP9hwkAT8C by kennon@tabletop.vip
2023-04-06T14:18:37Z
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@clive I've been using Neeva for my search for probably 99% of things for the last year+ and been very happy with it. Only thing it doesn't seem to handle well is mapping.
(DIR) Post #AUNU6oPZq0hBwNCjLc by Zergling_man@birds.garden
2023-04-06T14:21:30.205079Z
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@clive Keep a file of interesting sites you've found. Make the file accessible via your webserver.
(DIR) Post #AUO2TmO0vkpylGb2lU by sketchndoodle@ohai.social
2023-04-06T20:45:13Z
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@clive *Thank you* for the DDG bangs tip—I’d never heard of them before; I just used it now for the first time and I thought I’d died and gone to heaven!!
(DIR) Post #AUOhOM4ZQtB5p92AjI by HueSatLight@mastodon.social
2023-04-07T04:24:12Z
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@clive I almost always use DDG, but I don't recommend it to anyone because 1) can't exclude search terms, 2) It keeps giving me news results with MSN shoe-horned in as a middleman.
(DIR) Post #AUPRMlo5NXUKwuVPkm by SloanStudio@mastodon.social
2023-04-07T12:58:55Z
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@clive Switched to DuckDuckGo a couple years ago on my home computers and when my work computer defaults to Google I'm struck by all the noise and garbage. Really have to work to even find the real results vs ads.
(DIR) Post #AUPTjauZ8IDesGgbGS by dougbinks@mastodon.gamedev.place
2023-04-07T13:25:49Z
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@clive One problem with DuckDuckGo is it uses Bing, and Bing deindexes sites without any information or recourse to resolve it (the Webmaster tools give generic responses rather than precise reasons, and support just says to use the Webmaster tools).For example you can't find my company website Enkisoftware.com by searching with DuckDuckGo for Enkisoftware, nor my articles such as "normal generation in the pixel shader".
(DIR) Post #AUPfC2J3iGYJiGqJs0 by mrwalter@mas.to
2023-04-07T15:34:14Z
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@clive literally only use it for image search and shopping these days as these aren’t offered in DuckDuckGo which I’m happy with.
(DIR) Post #AUPtkSYW1XQYKONglk by maximum_mew@indieweb.social
2023-04-07T18:17:22Z
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@clive Hey, Clive, I just want to applaud your really smart writing in this piece. I kept pausing over your clever turns of phrase, like this whole chunk:"Google, once a beautifully spare tool designed to rapidly point me to the perfect site, now feels like the unholy spawn of Clippy and a pop-up window. I’ve received 419-scam emails that were more direct and to the point."🫡
(DIR) Post #AUQ2LITTGgnzPQ68S8 by manoj@masto.ai
2023-04-07T19:31:11Z
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@maximum_mew @clive I moved to DDG couple of months back. And I definitely don’t miss having to scroll half a page just to get to the “search results”. It’s only when I’m doing deep research that I go back to Google just to check if I missed something.
(DIR) Post #AUQ2LJ4h2IZzGrVrTE by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T19:51:22Z
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@manoj @maximum_mew Yep, I'm the same way now!
(DIR) Post #AUQ2TR1bMTZgFDwVcm by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T19:51:59Z
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@maximum_mew Thank you!! I had fun writing that one
(DIR) Post #AUQ3fYSPeaI0j0pIrQ by maximum_mew@indieweb.social
2023-04-07T20:08:32Z
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@clive It shows!
(DIR) Post #AUQ6IA7mFwKaSaiBQe by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:37:57Z
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@mrwalter yep yep
(DIR) Post #AUQ6OP9bI2jooJXbV2 by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:38:22Z
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@dougbinks Yeah, what we really need are alternative search sites that do their own crawls!
(DIR) Post #AUQ6VPfVm68gQxoDUe by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:39:04Z
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@SloanStudio I am astounded how many sponsored links there are ... real results are often so far down they're below the bottom of the browser window
(DIR) Post #AUQ6bBdQrdC2eBabxI by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:39:31Z
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@HueSatLight Yep, its reliance on the Bing crawl is a problem
(DIR) Post #AUQ6ghUjpzRuuG9Usy by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:39:44Z
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@sketchndoodle It's fun, eh?
(DIR) Post #AUQ6q7EdVNZVLR6sro by finserra@tausibs.org
2023-04-06T16:39:21Z
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Pros and cons. I’ve been using web search engines since the beginning of the WWW. Used a lot of them, and I still do. I still rely, for the most part, on Google, as a I have since about 2000. Its crawl is better, often by a lot. Its ad stacking and tendency to turn me into the product are abysmal. The silver lining in that last observation is that I have created a Chrome-based world for myself across many devices, and Google search is doing a lot to simplify my life and pre-populate all kinds of widgets and applications — from Calendar, to Maps, to Contacts, to GMail. Google’s search syntax is pretty robust, both Boolean and relational, and, from what I’ve seen, outpaces the competition considerably. I still use other engines to double-check important matters and can find chinks in the Google armor on occasion. Bing sometimes turns up a few items Google misses. I’ve learned to speed past the sponsored results, unless I’m shopping (sometimes they’re the shortest path to God). More than any shortcoming in Google Search, my bone to pick with Alphabet is their tendency to hook me on a product and then drop it for untenable reasons (e.g. iGoogle, Android Auto (phone presentation)).
(DIR) Post #AUQ6q7wwqd17YrqGw4 by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:40:28Z
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@finserra Yep, Google's crawl is the absolute best of the lot!
(DIR) Post #AUQ6w6bUlVIZ7lesVM by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:43:48Z
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@Zergling_man Yep!!
(DIR) Post #AUQ73OglvK5dF1bTU0 by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:44:12Z
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@kennon I'll give it a whirl -- good suggestion!
(DIR) Post #AUQ79QnR07dxVzb4nA by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:44:22Z
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@ElSupreme @laserlotus Alas, yes
(DIR) Post #AUQ7FVzsZsbZNlJq1w by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:44:41Z
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@8lettersuk Same here
(DIR) Post #AUQ7L2Gi1LHGuzp6kC by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:44:54Z
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@lippyduck Yep yep
(DIR) Post #AUQ7QLfZJdeIXMz6fY by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:45:08Z
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@maximweinstein Yeah, they do integrate well with maps
(DIR) Post #AUQ7VhXvPEnrpnxgqe by Jennifer_Pinkley@zirk.us
2023-04-06T11:22:32Z
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@tymwol @clive me too, I've been using DDG for a couple years and it works fine for most searches. Something really niche I have to go to Google but all the ads there now are super annoying.
(DIR) Post #AUQ7Vi99AqZrhFNPrk by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:45:31Z
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@Jennifer_Pinkley @tymwol They truly are
(DIR) Post #AUQ7gUQGXVBWJmWWI4 by WorldImagining@mastodon.social
2023-04-06T08:23:32Z
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@Coocho @clive 100% my experience too, except that DDG has been my default user for about a year. To be honest, it's only useful if I'm in a "I feel lucky" kinda mode of search. If I want to *actually find something* I invariably find myself having to revert to Google.
(DIR) Post #AUQ7gV4K8ZEAK1GVjE by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:46:39Z
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@WorldImagining @Coocho Google's results are more comprehensive when I"m drilling down, indeed
(DIR) Post #AUQ7mBHGdKjWg61om0 by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:47:40Z
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@MW1CFN Right on!
(DIR) Post #AUQ7rKIMX89a5rzhGi by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:47:51Z
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@Nates1984 @dbaplanb @StartpageSearch Cool!
(DIR) Post #AUQ7wlvLEoZZELp5JQ by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:48:10Z
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@euan Nice!
(DIR) Post #AUQ82EYiCWtnUKqIbY by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:48:24Z
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@ang6666 Hope it works out for you!
(DIR) Post #AUQ8KHO6QEIpTTU7vM by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:46:08Z
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@markkrueg Yep, I'd prefer an alternative that used its own crawl
(DIR) Post #AUQ8Q7xkNRuPyqwhk0 by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:48:32Z
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@thepdog Right on!
(DIR) Post #AUQ8RQFDtJQGyDjn5U by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-07T20:48:52Z
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@creckling Ugh, me too
(DIR) Post #AUQSTXN6MVJUjkhzfs by SloanStudio@mastodon.social
2023-04-08T00:46:32Z
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@clive It is unusable in many cases. But monopolies can just put in more ads and suffer few consequences…
(DIR) Post #AUQadMjnYKcsHlWRY8 by johnglass@ohai.social
2023-04-08T01:14:43Z
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@Nates1984 @clive @dbaplanb @StartpageSearch+1 for Startpage. It really does feel like old Google. Although it may be changing a bit soon and their parent co. is an ad agency which is sus, it is super clean at least on Android.https://www.startpage.com/privacy-please/featured-article/enhanced-search-results-on-startpage
(DIR) Post #AUQadNSoqwdeXOaOiu by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-08T02:17:53Z
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@johnglass @StartpageSearch @Nates1984 @dbaplanb yeah a lot of people have been saying they use it! I’m going to give it a try
(DIR) Post #AUWBUJuq6C1f78z5hA by RedStateExile@mastodon.social
2023-04-06T20:10:28Z
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@bassplayer @clive It is my understanding that has been fixed
(DIR) Post #AUWBUKip6M0ZcAN0bY by bassplayer@mas.to
2023-04-10T05:28:45Z
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@RedStateExile @clive True but by the time they did I've moved on to Brave which is more private. I did checkout your arty, nice. Once someone showed me the bangs it was eye opening because the default engine in Brave and DDG struggle with stack overflow or kubernetes related searches. I find I have to do !g to find more current pages. https://privacytests.org/
(DIR) Post #AUWBULA7SrqIyp8o9Q by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-10T19:02:48Z
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@bassplayer @RedStateExile yep yep
(DIR) Post #AUWNuRmcfYTmUgMjyK by RedStateExile@mastodon.social
2023-04-10T21:23:35Z
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@clive @bassplayer For me it’s “nope nope”—I do my best to do nothing google
(DIR) Post #AUrkzdmmytL5NoXCWO by Elwollito@muenchen.social
2023-04-21T04:51:11Z
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@clive had some surprisingly good results usinghttps://www.phind.com/It's a LLM Ai thingamajig
(DIR) Post #AUrmkDDnfFO6YlwJcW by sebsauvage@framapiaf.org
2023-04-21T05:10:48Z
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@cliveSorry, I don't mean to be rude but basically, you are writing :"How to stop using silo 1 : read it on silo 2." Medium is really an empty shell which profits from your production. You really should use your own blog.
(DIR) Post #AUrutDQ75v5jPoVFjM by ShadSterling@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T06:42:02Z
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@clive @Coocho if you prefix a DDG search with “g!” It will redirect you to the same search on google. I’ve been mostly using DDG for a few years, occasionally using that when results didn’t find what I was looking for. Now I’m looking to change again, because DDG has started incorporating what looks like Bing’s chatbot in addition to Bing search results, but haven’t found a clearly good alternative
(DIR) Post #AUryk5P7va93lTwaKu by chimlay@hachyderm.io
2023-04-21T07:25:15Z
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@clive Sorry just really appreciated:“You’d type in “best pizza in Toronto” and get, like, three web sites devoted to rollerblades, the CIA World Factbook entry for Albania, and a GeoCities page devoted to the German fansubbed rip of Battle of the Planets. They called it “surfing” the web because honestly, you might drown.”
(DIR) Post #AUs9QN2XkQP0AJBLyC by LucCogZest@fediscience.org
2023-04-21T09:24:55Z
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@clive a more radical switch is to replace search with contextual info retrieval (Hookmark).
(DIR) Post #AUsHmnqXYubpJ9m8KO by scottsymes@mastodon.social
2023-04-21T10:57:48Z
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@clive I completely switched to DuckDuckGo several years ago and never find a reason to need to use Google
(DIR) Post #AUsOBRhzbfuLc4uYEK by jhh1822@mstdn.social
2023-04-21T12:10:16Z
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@clive great article — read bunches of it aloud to T this morning
(DIR) Post #AUsWmHg8exq0r07Xt2 by patamystic@sfba.social
2023-04-21T13:46:29Z
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@clive duckduckgo is my default. for deep searches, including filtering, i use #DevonAgent. the ability to block spam farms (or any domain) from search results is suh-weethttps://www.devontechnologies.com/apps/devonagent
(DIR) Post #AUsZjhLn3WbXT23s00 by EricLawton@spore.social
2023-04-21T14:19:43Z
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@clive@cricketcrocker But DDG needs a verb. "I duckduckwent it" is a tad awkward.I propose "quakk".
(DIR) Post #AUsudgXjF8JQGMcTce by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-21T18:13:56Z
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@EricLawton @cricketcrocker Co-sign!I love it
(DIR) Post #AUsukdTj2GCcml3rii by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-21T18:14:25Z
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@patamystic The folks at Devon have been producing amazing search tools for almost 20 years now!
(DIR) Post #AUsurGYCg8zfhfJkGG by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-21T18:14:43Z
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@jhh1822 🤘🏻🤖
(DIR) Post #AUsuzS0PyNoTXzPw80 by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-21T18:15:22Z
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@scottsymes I still use it occasionally when I am doing more intensive research and am interested to see its results compared to those of DuckDuckGo
(DIR) Post #AUsvFg5VNrd7r5XCj2 by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-21T18:15:34Z
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@LucCogZest Yes!
(DIR) Post #AUsvGgmCJEcSHRzAsS by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-21T18:16:08Z
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@chimlay 😂
(DIR) Post #AUu7QlZ4kpGSdRNb5U by stooovie@mas.to
2023-04-22T08:12:01Z
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@clive @jurie Local non-US searching is an issue. I use DDG by default for a decade now but local search for my native language (Czech) might as well not exist.
(DIR) Post #AUuP8P0jfWI8eEi6pE by gothnbass@linuxrocks.online
2023-04-22T11:30:04Z
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@clive I've switched to Qwant, fwiw.Not regretting it.
(DIR) Post #AUvtwpzCqBWuZYv7j6 by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-23T04:50:22Z
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@gothnbass 🤘🏻
(DIR) Post #AUvu67dqZEh3w7MCP2 by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-23T04:51:38Z
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@stooovie @jurie Damn yeah
(DIR) Post #AV3vtha9NuuKoOVqrI by aglisson@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T01:49:46Z
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@clive Thanks for the article. I'll have to give some of the competition a try.One thing I've noticed is that Google only cares what happened in the last week or two. If I want to find an article I saw five years ago, Google will do almost anything to avoid helping me find it.
(DIR) Post #AV3ya1OKKAeyJuI15s by ll@smutlandia.com
2023-04-27T02:18:58Z
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@clive I switched to Qwant and never looked back
(DIR) Post #AVBjlSS46vylNqiGOm by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-30T20:11:36Z
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@aglisson Aha, yeah, I think I’ve noticed that too!