Post ATzcYmn4Z2HU3KfC9A by Literally@social.coop
(DIR) More posts by Literally@social.coop
(DIR) Post #ATzcYmn4Z2HU3KfC9A by Literally@social.coop
2023-03-26T01:16:00Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
"DKP is Market Socialism" #cooperative #workercoop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGx5xrr5eg
(DIR) Post #ATzczZPmP1aOO5XXwe by Hyolobrika@berserker.town
2023-03-26T02:07:59Z
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@Literally Interesting. I think @icedquinn, @moffintosh, and @sj_zero might be interested in seeing this. (Also meso, but I'll be damned if I'm ever talking to his worthless hide again)
(DIR) Post #ATzdTe65Yez9b5fegC by waltercool@pl.slash.cl
2023-03-26T02:13:19.961630Z
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@Hyolobrika @Literally @icedquinn @moffintosh @sj_zero - Market 🥰- Socialism 🤮☠️
(DIR) Post #ATzduogqHYzKGjomlU by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-03-26T02:18:20.157957Z
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@waltercool @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @Literally @sj_zero i think socialism just gets a bad rap from being pushed by non-producers stuck in us v them mindsets against bosses.it becomes less oppressive when you look at forms of socialism that are about getting individuals working again and explicitly refuse parts that enable doing nothing.
(DIR) Post #ATzeXzU45J2L2VWNZw by meowski@fluf.club
2023-03-26T02:25:18.218274Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@waltercool @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @Literally @sj_zero i tried to watch that nonsensical jibberish and had to stop after 5 seconds, it was unbearable. some homo who never worked a day in his life is going to lecture us on how obscure game shit is applicable to markets ok sure whatever
(DIR) Post #ATzesRqwJql2odyYHA by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-03-26T02:29:06.823728Z
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@meowski @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero he's basically saying its socialism because everyone who attends the raid is given equal bennies and you purchase the loot by spending lifetime accumulations of bennies within the social group.its "not capitalism" because "capital is credit in motion" and there is no usury or speculative investing in the system.
(DIR) Post #ATzf0vmWvblpxHxSQi by meowski@fluf.club
2023-03-26T02:30:30.898539Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@icedquinn @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero >beenies>looti literally do not care. gamers need to be sent to a forced labor camp. how's that for market socialism?
(DIR) Post #ATzf3wQKzu8Aoc0sIi by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-03-26T02:31:10.924104Z
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@meowski @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero if you don't care why the hell are you posting
(DIR) Post #ATzf6Y1SB4U20LcI0O by marine@breastmilk.club
2023-03-26T02:31:40.949719Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@icedquinn @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @meowski @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero because he needs something to do in-between his alternative medicine doses.
(DIR) Post #ATzf9kov3HhQZ6Hab2 by meowski@fluf.club
2023-03-26T02:32:08.344560Z
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@icedquinn @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero becuse socialists need to be confronted when they spew their bad ideas on the interneti'm saying i literally do not care beyond the first 5 seconds of the video- don't need you to try to explain the retarded game theory to me
(DIR) Post #ATzfCliKBaXKCndSmO by meowski@fluf.club
2023-03-26T02:32:43.864415Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@marine @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero ok look it's the fat brigade maybe you and quinn should try some alternative medicine instead of stuffing your fat faces with fast food
(DIR) Post #ATzfD03kqhzshJlm7s by Hyolobrika@berserker.town
2023-03-26T02:32:49Z
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@icedquinn @moffintosh @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero what if automation enables doing nothing without being a leach on other people?
(DIR) Post #ATzfEAGgNb7SeGN7Gy by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-03-26T02:33:01.188774Z
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@meowski @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero > doesn't bother to actually watch the video> "i don't care" about the topicif you're gonna "confront" things it helps to "actually bother to understand the topic" thanks for playing
(DIR) Post #ATzfHWIIwY0TpWjLg8 by meowski@fluf.club
2023-03-26T02:33:36.211130Z
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@icedquinn @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero i didn't say i don't care about the topic, i said i don't care about your retarded gamer jibberish. get a job
(DIR) Post #ATzfdQorykxJDmPWyW by marine@breastmilk.club
2023-03-26T02:37:37.472337Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@meowski @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero meowski, do you know what a joke is? At all? Because it was obviously a joke. The fact that you're freaking out at me for making a joke is ridiculous at best.
(DIR) Post #ATzfjOiGivWUQSAU3U by meowski@fluf.club
2023-03-26T02:38:33.947738Z
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@marine @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero mine was a joke too
(DIR) Post #ATzfjYdformzD65xHU by Owl@nicecrew.digital
2023-03-26T02:38:44.081828Z
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You should try this alternative medicine.
(DIR) Post #ATzfnmUWG68tKZpLO4 by marine@breastmilk.club
2023-03-26T02:39:29.794088Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@meowski @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero your writing tone says otherwise, meowski.
(DIR) Post #ATzftH4410b3bH4Wzg by meowski@fluf.club
2023-03-26T02:40:19.858552Z
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@marine @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero wait how come yours can be a joke but mine can't
(DIR) Post #ATzfxqJQuG2o4tRIjw by marine@breastmilk.club
2023-03-26T02:41:18.018149Z
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@meowski @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero look at the way they were written. The way you wrote yours was incredibly hostile. Mine wasn't. Now I will give you the benefit of the doubt in that maybe the hostility wasn't meant, but it's still there.
(DIR) Post #ATzg7sQhtBRbXZctQu by Hyolobrika@berserker.town
2023-03-26T02:43:04Z
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@marine @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero seems like banter to me
(DIR) Post #ATzgEGeClFXOO6zGS0 by marine@breastmilk.club
2023-03-26T02:44:16.933558Z
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@Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero it's very likely he didn't mean to come off that way. I'll give him that. But it came off as very angry with me and hostile
(DIR) Post #ATzgHfdoI9aulzQQd6 by meowski@fluf.club
2023-03-26T02:44:45.622921Z
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@marine @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero come up with a new bit other than muh alternative medicine. that one is played out. also entirely off topic. at any rate, OP's video is garbage. it should be obvious after watchign 5 seconds that it's some lazy gamer trying to explain through his game-addled brain how socialism is applicable to free marketsand this does get me riled up, when lazy parasites try to explain why we're all really socialists, because of something in a game that has zero relevance to how real life or markets actually workso at that point when more gamers try to come in and defend such nonsense i will go ahead and bite your head off
(DIR) Post #ATzgTdDZ7xU6jSqwjo by marine@breastmilk.club
2023-03-26T02:47:03.500990Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@meowski @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero eh, fwiw, and i do mean this in the nicest way, I don't really know much else about you besides that you work really hard, take alternative medicine and work out. So there's only so many bits you can do here.Anyways, socialism is garbage. Politics is garbage. That is all.
(DIR) Post #ATzgX63kLqNb3Gudma by diceynes@coolsite.win
2023-03-26T02:47:40.156590Z
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Embrace anarchy
(DIR) Post #ATzgheDGDyaLsAOTPU by meowski@fluf.club
2023-03-26T02:49:22.950906Z
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@marine @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero i take medicine if i'm sick. if you call it alternative, that's fine but again it's completely irrelevant here yea socialism is garbage, sure. but politics is imposed on us whether we like it or not which is why it's important to confront bad ideasand when gamers try to use some dumb shit in a game to explain to me why we're actually socialists and we just don't know it, well that annoys me
(DIR) Post #ATzgnDKd54TMEvUjIG by Hyolobrika@berserker.town
2023-03-26T02:50:32Z
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@marine @icedquinn I've never understood why people do what you're doing right now: getting offended while simultaneously being offensiveBTW, blob.cat doesn't show foreign user-identifying metadata, breastmilk.club doesn't show anything at all, and I can't find the option to unmute @meowski@fluf.club so my view of the thread is limited
(DIR) Post #ATzgwrI9sZoimQwCSu by marine@breastmilk.club
2023-03-26T02:52:20.402912Z
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@Hyolobrika @icedquinn eh, I'm not really offended. Just moreso shocked that he didn't get that it was a joke.
(DIR) Post #ATziqfEpyt4NZFYgL2 by waltercool@pl.slash.cl
2023-03-26T03:13:30.002273Z
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@icedquinn @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @Literally @sj_zero What do you understand as socialism? That's my main issue. I can bear communists a lot better than socialists. Post-Keynesian theories are just a lot of gibberish and formulas trying to achieve a utopian result. Praxeology explains how bad is socialism no matter how much they try.
(DIR) Post #ATzj34MYOXAUxs5Cd6 by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-03-26T03:15:50.241323Z
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@waltercool @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @Literally @sj_zero i read hayek but i didn't read keyes. i just looked at socialist tropes and europe and said haha that'll never work. and then pondered about how pieces of it do and those are mostly the pieces that push toward productivity.quinn socialism is more capitalism with the highs and lows quadratically squished.
(DIR) Post #ATzja5Vt8bvW5bC3sG by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-03-26T03:21:49.563619Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@waltercool @Hyolobrika @Literally @moffintosh @sj_zero like france had some better policies pre-megacorp with the living subsidies that toggle on and off depending on how much income you made *that month*.the USA flirts with welfare but it's mostly a cattle trap type thing. have to sue the government to get benefits and then you get 1$ from a job you lose it all. encourages you to just be disabled and useless (so they can then call you a useless eater--kissinger) instead of a reward structure where you can use the welfare to get your shit in order and provide value.capitalism flirted with some of these concepts with having indentures and apprenticeships but those are both gone too now.
(DIR) Post #ATzjjboOQFIQrqOAd6 by lunarfox@poa.st
2023-03-26T02:26:04.366713Z
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@waltercool @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @Literally @sj_zero - Market 🤮☠️- Socialism 🥰Real socialism is moneyless. Market socialism is just as bad as crapitalism because you just have the working class exploiting each other.-Vi
(DIR) Post #ATzjjcryUPku9F4Xqq by waltercool@pl.slash.cl
2023-03-26T03:23:25.595341Z
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@lunarfox @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn @Literally @sj_zero I mean, communism is OK, capitalism is OK. Whatever we have right now around the world is already market socialism and doesn't work.Hundred of loans and money printing machines to fulfill bad social policies, and half of that money goes to politicians and lobbyists. The monopoly of the force is unable to do anything good, like any legal monopoly.NeoLiberalism is also wrong. While you get better use of money, you introduce privileged corporations and political corruption.Communism best case is fairness. The bad case is totalitarianism and/or just no interest of people to serve the communeCapitalism best case is liberty. The bad case is oligarchy or feudalism.There is no perfect system. Deal with it.
(DIR) Post #ATzjv5bvyEO8TO2H3o by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-03-26T03:25:36.226650Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@waltercool what we have right now is moussolini fascism :blobcatanime: @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @lunarfox @Literally @sj_zero
(DIR) Post #ATzk0FEFddaBkbPsZc by waltercool@pl.slash.cl
2023-03-26T03:26:26.395419Z
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@icedquinn @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @Literally @sj_zero Keynes Theory is worthless right now, it's a failed model and no economist can support it.NeoKeynesianism is kinda Market Socialists new toys. They are still pursuing a mathematical model to hold the economy, btw.https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/012615/what-difference-between-keynesian-and-neokeynesian-economics.asp
(DIR) Post #ATzk6SjmKKYtNs7zfM by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-03-26T03:27:40.498949Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@waltercool @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @Literally @sj_zero i think i'm usually accused of being austrian school.:blobfoxdealwithitfingerguns: shit happens and its glorious
(DIR) Post #ATzkhnEd52B5feMJ16 by waltercool@pl.slash.cl
2023-03-26T03:34:18.897062Z
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@icedquinn @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @lunarfox @Literally @sj_zero I would say that's Fr*nce. Strong Syndicalism, Strong Nationalism, Lot of Protectionism, Btchy attitude. Also, Fascism is deeply influenced by National Syndicalism, which originated at Frnce.Most countries are just Corporativism today, especially US and China.
(DIR) Post #ATzknV1Pi1wmvAtkZ6 by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-03-26T03:35:27.169914Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@waltercool the FBI controlling bookface and birdsite is literally mousolini's facism. hiding policy behind corporate fronts to circumvent the law is what he was all about.@Hyolobrika @moffintosh @lunarfox @Literally @sj_zero
(DIR) Post #ATzlADkS68aC0anbFI by waltercool@pl.slash.cl
2023-03-26T03:39:26.320893Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@icedquinn @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @lunarfox @Literally @sj_zero The creation of the Federal Reserve and FBI was just evil.Some people say Titanic was a bad accident, and Kennedy's killer just a crazy guy. Who knows?
(DIR) Post #ATzsB2pYsGEg7JWqYa by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2023-03-26T04:58:05.868276Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
tl;dr: socialism isn't a thing in the way they're talking about here, it's pure capitalism in action.I have a big problem with the term socialism, especially applied to things like this video tries to, applying it to a guild in a video game.According to Marx and Engels, Socialism is the era of the dictatorship of the proletariat where an all powerful state takes over everything to try to remove the old power structures, in particular by using violence against the previously powerful. It is a temporary state in between capitalism and communism.This idea is of course really stupid. You think you're going to hand absolute power to a group of people including the power to claim certain people are evil the power to execute people and the power to distribute resources, and it's magically going to result in a stateless, classless society? That's like a weight loss plan where you eat 4 liters of ice cream every day.Socialism has been tried a bunch of times, and the obvious outcome always results -- mass murder of dissidents of any kind and mass suffering while the leaders get fat.Since what is actually socialism is not desirable, we have stuff like people voluntarily working together being called socialism. You can kinda see what they're trying to do, linguistically it seems like "oh, it's social, so it's socialism!" but that's sorta dumb to the point that it seems sinister. It's like "Oh, we're called the Nazis! But don't worry, it's not like being *that* nazi" -- right. So why exactly are you choosing to name your thing after nazis if it isn't nazis? Oh, and then it turns out after you buy into their new nazi thing they sneak in a "Hitler was right!" and you're like "oh shit wait what?"Capitalism is defined as an economic system characterized by private ownership and control of the means of production.Under capitalism, individuals are free to acquire capital for themselves and try their best to utilize them for whatever purpose they desire. They can choose to use it to produce a good for profit, or they can choose to use it for public benefit, or they can choose to waste it. As well, human labor is a form of capital, and individuals are free to use their own labor as they see fit. They can choose to use their labor for themselves to produce something, or they can choose to sell it to someone else, or they can choose to spend it on the community, or they can choose to waste it. That's their choice, and they're free to make their own decisions in that regard.At its best, capitalism has everyone doing what they're best at for mutual benefit. Of course, it can also be exploitative too, because freedom is dangerous; On one hand, freedom means the freedom to do things that aren't good for yourself or others. On the other hand, freedom means the freedom to do things that are good for yourself or others. Thus, freedom is best enjoyed by a moral people who will choose to do the right thing when nobody is watching, and authoritarianism is best enjoyed by immoral people who will always choose to do the wrong thing when nobody is watching so the state must always have somebody watching.This is where I have a big problem with the thesis of the video. Individuals who control their labor, their money, own the equipment they use, and are free to use those resources however they wish willingly work together towards a common goal, and that's supposed to be socialism?I don't agree at all. A group of individuals who have the absolute right to private property and private control of their own labor deciding to work together with others is economically capitalism.You can say "But they're cooperating, and under capitalism you're supposed to be competing!", but this is one of the misunderstandings of the system at its best. The competition isn't necessarily just trying to get everyone else under your boot. A guild is competing for resources. It wants to get people, and it needs to present a case that's better than the other guilds, and also a case that's better than the alternatives, including hiring people as mercenaries (which could be done no matter what but was added as an official feature in 2015 in the group finder), or working alone. I feel the same about my participation in the fediverse. Yes, I don't charge anyone to use my services and don't run advertising, and I've chosen to participate in an ecosystem where I can cooperate with other server operators to create something better than I could create myself, but I was able to start my services because I am free to have private control and ownership of capital of my own, and I'm a free individual in control of my own labor, so I purchased the capital equipment I run my services on, set up the equipment using my labor as I saw fit, and have the control over those services to run them how I wish including the decision to monetize or not.
(DIR) Post #ATztWNSrS9Dc9BeB28 by icedquinn@blob.cat
2023-03-26T05:13:12.208004Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sj_zero @Hyolobrika @moffintosh @waltercool @Literally i fed the individual paragraphs of this wall of text in to a summarizer :blobcatsleepless2: > At its best, capitalism has everyone doing what they're best at for mutual benefitthat is extremely generous. i don't think it actually manages it in practice https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/taleb summarizes what makes free markets work. basically, "privatize the losses, socialize the successes."what it does really well is that people who are very bad at managing capital starve and through survivor bias the remaining people with money can at least manage not to lose all of it. but if you do have money you can use it on your own risky ventures without permission from others and the failures die while society eventually enjoys the winnings as a product, and eventually after patent expiration as a general way of doing things.i tend to see the only functional socialism is economic socialism; which is more accurately portrayed as tech shops and tool libraries, and when community resources are available for small commerce, which i think tends to go by the name commonwealth.
(DIR) Post #AU08xChZ4kfVtjm4Y4 by Hyolobrika@berserker.town
2023-03-26T08:06:08Z
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@sj_zero @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally >Individuals who control their labor, their money, own the equipment they use, and are free to use those resources however they wish willingly work together towards a common goal, and that's supposed to be socialism?Yes, because the definition of socialism according to socialists is "worker's control over the means of production".But this is a semantic argument.
(DIR) Post #AU0AR61OZoaZozrqts by moffintosh@berserker.town
2023-03-26T08:22:43Z
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@Hyolobrika @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally @sj_zero That's the looooooooooooooooooooong term plan
(DIR) Post #AU0FRVrwyWfbl1T4C0 by moffintosh@berserker.town
2023-03-26T09:18:50Z
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@Hyolobrika @Literally @icedquinn @sj_zero 1:53 "to be folded into a moral system like socialism"Ehhhh- I don't really like characterizing or arguing for something on the basis of morality. It's a bit too contextual and changes a bit too much among demographics in my opinion. And that's without considering the different moral frameworks that exist.2:42 "DKP [...] which is paid out to all players equallyEqual wage socialism is not3:58 "[...] DKP is not capital"Given the constrains he defines, it seems resonable to me.5:25 That seems... a really loose implied definition? It's also different from what it's usually indicated as a market economy, as the market here is internal, within the guild, and not external to it.There is also the cricial element here that, as far as I can see, all loot is personal, as it cannot be shared between players, while in an irl firm you have machinery and equipment that may be used by multiple workers and is owned by the firm itself (the guild in this context).Overall it seems like a fun little though experiment to me
(DIR) Post #AU0GJTTA76ybx5bW64 by Hyolobrika@berserker.town
2023-03-26T09:28:35Z
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@moffintosh @Literally @icedquinn @sj_zero There seems to be a market external to the guild as well, but I've never played this game, so I'm not sure.
(DIR) Post #AU0i19cFzEJLskuWci by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2023-03-26T14:39:00.768066Z
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"No, don't be silly, concentration camps are just camps you to go in order to help your concentration!" oh ok "also we want a final solution to the JQ" wait what?
(DIR) Post #AU0iB8rDf74wQPfiNs by Hyolobrika@berserker.town
2023-03-26T14:40:49Z
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@sj_zero @moffintosh @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally That's how it was originally defined IIRC
(DIR) Post #AU0jPrMX5e3gSmtsUS by moffintosh@berserker.town
2023-03-26T14:54:41Z
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@sj_zero @Hyolobrika @icedquinn @waltercool @Literally Si e i torroni sone delle grandi torri
(DIR) Post #AU1YVUKwht4aRzbDhQ by Literally@social.coop
2023-03-27T00:26:52Z
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@Hyolobrika @moffintosh @icedquinn@blob.cat @sj_zero to me, the interesting thing in the video isn't the "socialism" part (whatever that means, it's in the post since it's the name of the video), it's the soulbound token part. it's a real-world scenario in which people show up to work in a team and get paid, at least at the first level, with tokens they can't lend and collect interest on.