Post ATr5Iw32f3PXGVppPE by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
(DIR) More posts by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
(DIR) Post #ATqaGEweqgucQS5Fey by Alan@lor.sh
2023-03-21T16:04:21Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
The redder the state and its regressive laws toward women and POC, the bigger the brain drain will be.Out of state women will stop attending colleges & universities in states where they could get raped - and then their whole life changed. Good out-of-state employees will refuse to move to deep red states.Companies with sense will look elsewhere for HQs. The effects will take a while to be felt but they will be felt. There will be refugees. A red state diaspora in the blue states. It will suck for everyone who can't leave but wants to. There will be two Americas. One that's readying itself for 2050 and the other that wants to live back in 1850. Which one will have a brighter tomorrow?
(DIR) Post #ATqaGFTcs7He4hVa2y by DeborahForPlus@mas.to
2023-03-21T16:13:25Z
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@Alan This has been happening already.Look at the stats for Mississippi and Alabama
(DIR) Post #ATqaGG5CcPLDxF5acK by Annaeus@mas.to
2023-03-21T16:39:51Z
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@DeborahForPlus @Alan Several other rural states, and not just in the South (Idaho, Wyoming, SD...) are just as bad and getting worse. Basically, most of rural America wants to retreat into the 19th century while urban America is moving ahead with the 21st. The reason why Georgia is turning blue is Atlanta. The reason why Illinois isn't red is Chicago. Cultural isolation, low literacy, fundamentalist religion and right wing propaganda are splitting the country.
(DIR) Post #ATqaGGakj6ZvX5qmnI by Alan@lor.sh
2023-03-21T16:55:41Z
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@Annaeus @DeborahForPlus In her terrific book How The South Won The Civil War, historian Heather Cox Richardson tells the story of how the Confederacy fled west after the war and established a kind of second Confederacy that's alive to this day in places like Wyoming, Idaho, most of Montana and western Washington state and Oregon.
(DIR) Post #ATqeisfh8klHYm3tVw by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-21T18:14:59.481874Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Alan As conservative who leans across the aisle, a few things are worth pointing out:1) People in professional jobs - that is, the people you're referring to - generally go where the jobs are. I know a lot of people who live in red states who are as blue as you could be - they're in the red states because that is where their job happens to be. They hate it, but they like their job enough that this overpowers their desire to move.Remote work of course changes this for FAANG workers, but there are a lot of tech jobs that cannot be done fully remotely (Tesla is the golden example, but medical science and robotics cannot be fully remote either). Even with remote work, companies may rediscover that ping matters a lot and want local workers for that reason (see: basically all of Fintech).2) People in less-than-professional jobs are more likely to move based on politics - baristas and farmers, for example. The impact from this is largely already felt - note that Seattle has some of the best coffee in the world, and rural red states are powerhouses for agriculture.3) It should also be noted that, despite politics being a larger deal today than before, the vast majority of Americans honestly don't really care that much about left-right politics. This includes professionals.
(DIR) Post #ATqf080vLnvM4BDRWC by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-21T18:18:06.972082Z
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@Alan (Will add for people who follow me that "conservative" is just the best way to describe ourselves to left-wing people, there's nuances but they're not relevant to this discussion.)
(DIR) Post #ATqfXIeinzOiczeFzk by Mamako@poa.st
2023-03-21T18:24:07.125103Z
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@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @Alan Why is there an assumption that conservatives are incapable of doing certain kinds of work? I think people live where their work is and where there families are. There are thousands of people who never even leave their home state their whole life.
(DIR) Post #ATqfsC2EcGfkAvbow4 by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-21T18:27:53.310945Z
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@Mamako @Alan Oh, if we assume the best of Alan, then the assumption being implicitly made is weaker - tech is a field where lots of people who enter it are left-wing. It's the same thing that happens when we talk about black people - this is a claim about populations, rather than about individuals.
(DIR) Post #ATqgTxheLnmWjHzS08 by Mamako@poa.st
2023-03-21T18:34:43.266002Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @Alan I think he’s just huffing his own farts as if living in a state with no farming, no janitors, and no tradesmen would be a superior society than one where you have food, clean public buildings, and utilities that work.
(DIR) Post #ATqh2X6vDEKWOFIOPo by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-21T18:40:56.947608Z
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@Mamako @Alan Going to point out that this attitude - both the one that you're describing and the one that you're holding - makes it difficult to show the highly polarized people that we all have a common enemy.It's why I sometimes pop into these sorts of threads. I know there really isn't that much hope, but I really would rather see a little more unity against the people who are *actually* causing problems.
(DIR) Post #ATqh7JVHENgpdUy1TM by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-21T18:41:49.660701Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Mamako @Alan Fuck I just saw "Katz," nevermind me :notlikemiya:
(DIR) Post #ATqiFj0kNVTB18GI2S by Mamako@poa.st
2023-03-21T18:54:33.480481Z
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@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @Alan Haha. I think that you’ll never have a productive argument through text as much of human discussion is communicated by body language. Every point will often be misinterpreted or completely ignored as there is no stakes in an online debate since you can log off whenever and stop engaging whereas in real life the other individual can follow you and presumably knows who you are.
(DIR) Post #ATqj3CAMliWPd7LmL2 by ConscientiousPoster@poa.st
2023-03-21T19:03:29.929078Z
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@Mamako @ceo_of_monoeye_dating @Alan I saw CMD annihilate someone (he doesn't post anymore) so I'm not so sure.
(DIR) Post #ATqjkbgJmM1dDTznFI by Mamako@poa.st
2023-03-21T19:11:20.670352Z
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@ConscientiousPoster @ceo_of_monoeye_dating @Alan Poor guy getting suicided by some stranger online.
(DIR) Post #ATqjompqFgXKy1RYY4 by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-21T19:12:05.301010Z
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@Mamako @Alan This misses the point of debate.Debate is for the audience, not the participants. It is *very rare* that a participant changes their mind, it is really the audience whose mind is more often changed.
(DIR) Post #ATqjtrcxrUP5HIqDi4 by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-21T19:13:00.699145Z
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@ConscientiousPoster @Alan @Mamako If you're talking about dk, I was actually *as kind as possible* to them the entire time! I genuinely miss that guy, too.
(DIR) Post #ATqjysbdeP8LlFc3Jw by Mamako@poa.st
2023-03-21T19:13:55.431298Z
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@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @Alan That makes sense. I was thinking in terms of the Socratic method rather than rhetoric
(DIR) Post #ATqkBbce6hkWqr9Uvo by ConscientiousPoster@poa.st
2023-03-21T19:16:13.401360Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @Alan @Mamako @dreddful
(DIR) Post #ATqkWrqMzXrNF5i4J6 by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-21T19:20:03.645721Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ConscientiousPoster @dreddful @Alan @Mamako Oh, *that* guy. No, that guy probably figured out he was on the wrong spot of the internet - it would've happened regardless of who was talking to him first.
(DIR) Post #ATr3tcrsjdAqaNyyzw by Alan@lor.sh
2023-03-21T22:21:12Z
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@ceo_of_monoeye_dating But "where the jobs are" can change just like that.You see employees as worker bees only slightly better than slaves. They'll go where you tell em to go!They won't actually. Not if they're female and taking a job could kill them.
(DIR) Post #ATr3tdQceSxmK8Ej9E by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-21T22:57:03.788329Z
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@Alan >You see employees as worker bees only slightly better than slaves. They'll go where you tell em to go!Well, you'd be surprised! Lots of people *do* go "where you tell them to go," especially if it is their first job. There are of course limits, but the reality is that there are lots of blue people who are miserable that they are in red states (and lots of red people who are miserable that they are in blue states, for that matter).On the matter of abortion, I have myself seen very liberal women take jobs in very red states, simply because that is where the job is. It's just the way that industry is.
(DIR) Post #ATr5Is1TcvmYmV4WPY by Alan@lor.sh
2023-03-21T22:26:30Z
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@Mamako @ceo_of_monoeye_dating I live in California, friend. We could be a country unto ourselves. And we are readying ourselves for 2050 while other states (Idaho) set sail for 1850.
(DIR) Post #ATr5Iw32f3PXGVppPE by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-21T23:12:48.680206Z
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@Alan @Mamako The topic of Calexit comes up quite a bit in conservative circles. It's usually agreed that, if this happens, the end result is something much like this:1) California is geographically split between people who would want to stay and who would want to leave, so California gets split between areas that want to stay and areas that want to secede. As a result, only part of California actually secedes.2) Russia steps in to assist secessionists. Russia has stated that it will do this no matter who secedes, and it would be an extreme strategic failure of a secessionist movement to turn down assistance from a foreign nation.3) US government identifies this as a war with Russia. Secessionist movement is put down at great cost to the US government, US stays largely intact but is crippled globally.(This discussion is also largely independent of *which* state secedes. It's generally agreed that secession efforts fail and are generally bad for everyone involved except hostile foreign nations.)
(DIR) Post #ATr5RUbQ4XpIkbzlZY by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-21T23:14:23.615566Z
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@Alan @Mamako With California *in particular* the strategic importance of water is also observed, but it's not considered the deciding factor *usually*.
(DIR) Post #ATr9n4TWIGfpuCqSkC by Alan@lor.sh
2023-03-21T23:37:31Z
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@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @Mamako Secession is a pipe dream. California isn't going to & won't need to. The states wanting to secede - the red states - would have a hard time making a go of it. They're all the states that take in more federal dollars than they put in. CA is one of the big "put in" states that keeps little red states afloat. The red parts of California would suffer the same squalid fate. And Russia can't help itself never mind rural Californians who think they're a country.
(DIR) Post #ATr9n51YFjtbbkldmy by Mamako@poa.st
2023-03-22T00:03:06.606989Z
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@Alan @ceo_of_monoeye_dating Why would they need federal dollars when you just make your own currency that is just as worthless as the federal money you're taking? Money isn't what is important its physical goods that have real value. In a situation where any states secede peacefully, which won't ever happen, they would simply create their own currency and rather than have their currency devalued for decades like the US dollar has by the federal reserve they might actually reach solvency, which the US never will.
(DIR) Post #ATrFP3KdUa3T8PcVl2 by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-22T01:06:00.002812Z
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@Alan @Mamako Earlier, you said "we could be a country unto ourselves." Why would you say that if you think Californian secession is a pipe dream?Moreover, I agree that red states would have a hard go of secession - I mentioned that it didn't really matter which state seceded, it would be a bad idea.Russia wouldn't need to expend a lot of resources to make a hypothetical US Civil War a disaster for the US - especially since the outcome is desirable for Russia regardless of who wins.Last, I'll point out that Mamako is completely right about real, physical goods being essential. Silicon Valley is definitely profitable, but humans run on food and not gold.
(DIR) Post #ATrFhy6h8ssaQr7RNg by Alan@lor.sh
2023-03-21T23:38:21Z
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@ceo_of_monoeye_dating You're speaking of the past. You won't see that in the future.
(DIR) Post #ATrFhypMSobmfO170C by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-22T01:09:22.472272Z
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@Alan That sounds like wishful thinking to me. If there's no reason to believe that people's behavior will change drastically for some reason, then the most reasonable assumption is that they'll continue acting much like they have in the past.Although it is entirely possible that people will start changing their behavior over politics, this is not how they have acted in the past.
(DIR) Post #ATskbu4wUvYVwEqamG by Alan@lor.sh
2023-03-22T17:34:22Z
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@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @Mamako What I meant was California is dynamic. We are also a study in conservative values and politics becoming progressive values and politics. We lost none of our dynamism. In fact, we're gaining it.It's a balancing act of course. No one way is the right way. Our problems aren't getting smaller, they're getting bigger. The solutions won't come from the past. We will have to innovate them. My point: our problems are already forcing us away from how it was. We literally won't be able to live there in the future.
(DIR) Post #ATskbubuWLvXaUGvAG by Mamako@poa.st
2023-03-22T18:30:23.142649Z
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@Alan @ceo_of_monoeye_dating You said a lot of words but none of them really meant anything. What are the problems that don’t allow you to live as you did in the past and how did they force you to change your lifestyle?
(DIR) Post #ATslkJiv8Q8nkG7ebY by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-22T18:43:07.111978Z
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@Alan @Mamako That's interesting, but I don't see why you would think that's well translated by saying that California could be a country unto itself.
(DIR) Post #ATsmCGt7Gr0z3jDlb6 by Alan@lor.sh
2023-03-22T17:30:07Z
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@ceo_of_monoeye_dating But peoples' thinking will change - is changing in real time. The reasons are economics and politics. Throw this into the mix: diverse peoples react to problems in diverse ways. America's past behavior represented one group's problem solving. Our future behavior will represent another way.My data set? I live with two Gen-Z-ers. They're both politically engaged albeit in their way and not in my old way. They don't see good options ahead. They see bad options and worse options.They know how we did it hasn't worked. It won't work for them - and it isn't. It isn't just possible for people to change, people already have. It's only just starting to ripple and make its presence obvious.
(DIR) Post #ATsmCHTH6PwErs8dxQ by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-22T18:48:09.581938Z
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@Alan So, directly talking with the younger generation is good - I do so myself quite regularly, it sort of comes with the territory.Do you ever talk with Zoomers who are politically disengaged? There's more than a few hanging around here, it's just sort of how things work.
(DIR) Post #ATtAXLDgl4NFTWQJKC by Alan@lor.sh
2023-03-22T19:37:12Z
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@ceo_of_monoeye_dating Yeah. I've talked to lots & lots of disengaged zoomers. But life has a way of engaging everyone. Example: when climate condenses the land mass available to us all, people will change their ways and quickly. That's coming way faster than people expect. It will cause money and resources to get spent in unexpected ways.That, too, will change things. Disengaged is good when you can afford to be disengaged. And then when you can't, you can't.
(DIR) Post #ATtAXO9BsFYgYRLGEK by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-22T23:20:52.173344Z
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@Alan If you've talked to lots of politically disengaged zoomers, it sounds like there hasn't been any reason for them to become politically engaged. That is, it sounds like they can afford to be disengaged from politics.It doesn't sound like anything is happening to make them change the way people have acted in the past.
(DIR) Post #ATtGPsAGz9lD3neDJ2 by Alan@lor.sh
2023-03-22T19:37:50Z
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@ceo_of_monoeye_dating @Mamako You've fallen love with words and not their intention. It happens.
(DIR) Post #ATtGPse3CRa0Y9Zzii by ceo_of_monoeye_dating@bae.st
2023-03-23T00:26:44.352223Z
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@Alan @Mamako I find it quite strange that someone who holds themselves out as a writer/producer would respond in that fashion. If people do not understand other things that you've written, do you blame the audience?This is reasonable if it is only one person misunderstanding, but everyone other than you in this chunk of the thread interpreted your statement as suggesting that California could viably secede. This is a reasonable interpretation - there's a non-negligible Calexit movement, and the context of the thread is about extreme differences in the culture in different states.It sounds like you communicated poorly and decided to shift the blame away from yourself. If this is how you approach writing in general, then I feel bad for your audience.