Post ATjPsa6YARUjS84TYm by isaac32767@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by isaac32767@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #ATjOwQgh1PmdRzFQG0 by Loukas@mastodon.nu
2023-03-17T15:37:10Z
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Today, International Criminal Court issues arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin and Commissioner for Children in Russia. Both are suspected of illegal deportation and transfer of Ukrainian children https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and
(DIR) Post #ATjOwRLSZqORUQJyng by Loukas@mastodon.nu
2023-03-17T17:48:33Z
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It's really important to know what the International Criminal Court (ICC) is.Russia is already saying the ICC arrest warrant for Putin is part of some USA plan. But the USA isn't part of the ICC!What is the ICC? It's mostly smaller and less powerful countries, plus the EU and UK.https://asp.icc-cpi.int/states-parties
(DIR) Post #ATjOwRuuS2kXGMuI3U by Loukas@mastodon.nu
2023-03-17T17:51:03Z
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The USA isn't in the ICC because it fears being prosecuted. Likewise China isn't in. India and Pakistan aren't in. Israel and Iran aren't in.But South Africa and Nigeria and 31 other African states are in, as is Venezuela and Brazil and 26 others from Latin America and Caribbean.So this arrest warrant against Putin represents a clear move by lots of non-nato and non-western countries to show that war crimes are not acceptable.
(DIR) Post #ATjOwTh9q8wCmIUKtk by Loukas@mastodon.nu
2023-03-17T18:37:56Z
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Something I just realised is that while the ICC has an arrest warrant for Putin he can't (in theory) go to any of the green countries in case they arrest him.Embarrassing!
(DIR) Post #ATjPsa6YARUjS84TYm by isaac32767@mastodon.social
2023-03-17T20:48:13Z
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@Loukas Your map seems to show that almost all NATO countries, with the notable exception of the U.S., belong to the ICC. I think you're wrong to ascribe this move to a collective decision to act against war crimes. That decision happened back when all these countries signed onto the ICC. This is a specifically anti-Putin thing, which the U.S. supports – even if we're too hypocritical to give the Court real enforcement powers.
(DIR) Post #ATjPsaew6b05Am9w9o by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-03-18T06:25:21.319027Z
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@isaac32767 @Loukas Note the arrest warrant comes almost a year after ICC has sent its investigators to Ukraine, and coincides with a large UN report on Russian war crimes in Ukraine documented by the mission and described as “crimes against humanity”:https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-has-committed-wide-range-war-crimes-ukraine-un-inquiry-finds-2023-03-16/But at the same time the ICC warrant is limited to a very narrow set of crimes related to abduction of children - and that’s most likely because these idiots have been been boasting about it publicly, thus practically handing a confession to ICC:https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-has-committed-wide-range-war-crimes-ukraine-un-inquiry-finds-2023-03-16/So this is just a beginning.
(DIR) Post #ATjVpQYvmvxiiLE2fg by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-03-18T07:31:31Z
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@kravietz @Loukas @isaac32767 from a legal perspective it makes sense.It is the crime best document and, as you mentioned, they basically admitted it. And it can be clearly linked to him.Other crimes might be more horrifying, but linking it directly to him or higher command might be sketchy at best.
(DIR) Post #ATjYaXLGbDiLG9QQls by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-03-18T08:02:58.694539Z
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@t_mkdf This whole UN and ICC process is 100% about legality, which is often misunderstood by the popular audience. For example, UN said it saw “no signs of genocide in Ukraine so far”[^1], resulting in a series of triumphant statements in #Russia and confusion elsewhere, the latter reinforced by the fact that the same UN report documents numerous war crimes, crimes against humanity, “systematic rape and torture” etc.But #genocide is just a very narrow, legal subcategory of the above crimes, distinguished by a specific genocidal intent of the perpetrator. Proving that a particular war crime was also a genocidal one is a cumbersome process even if the crime itself is 100% proven. But lack of proven genocidal intent doesn’t in any way impair the prosecution of the crime itself.Having said that, I’m a bit surprised myself by such a categorical statement (“no signs of genocide so far”) because Russian authorities have plenty of times expressed intent to eradicate any traces of Ukrainian ethnos, which sounds quite genocidal to me. Maybe UN lawyers took into account that Russia has with equal energy murdered Russian-speaking Ukrainians and ethnic Russians, in addition to Ukrainians? I don’t know, we’ll see…[^1]: https://news.yahoo.com/un-sees-no-signs-genocide-211500698.html@Loukas @isaac32767
(DIR) Post #ATjmpN5uNgbPB9D35s by bonkers@nerdculture.de
2023-03-18T08:27:37Z
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@kravietz @Loukas @isaac32767 @t_mkdf I don't know what exactly is making them say so, but it is a pure genocide. Ethnic cleansing, mass murder, random bombing of cities. What else, really.There's still a bunch of Russian war crimes in Syria, yet to be investigated.
(DIR) Post #ATjmpNaOYKzMhhTOc4 by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-03-18T08:34:34Z
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@bonkers @kravietz @Loukas @isaac32767 it is about legal statements and narrowly defined legal preconditions.For example a crime witnessed by you and me might be seen by both of us as murder.But some preconditions cannot be proven 100% (95% is sometimes not enough). And so it's only manslaughter in the end.
(DIR) Post #ATjmpOQVQaflJJr0q0 by Loukas@mastodon.nu
2023-03-18T09:44:04Z
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@t_mkdf @bonkers @kravietz @isaac32767 i looked through the sources and i think we need to be aware that "no sign of genocide so far" is not a direct quote I've found from the un, only how the journalists have described it. What Möse said is they do not conclude yet that there has been a genocide, but some things do in fact exist which make them keep looking. So they could totally have found signs, just not conclusive evidence.
(DIR) Post #ATjmsWJSYyJ8de37my by t_mkdf@ruhr.social
2023-03-18T08:16:13Z
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@kravietz @Loukas @isaac32767 yes. I would also say it is "so far" that is also important.It is not ruling out genocide in the legal sense. Only that all the preconditions have not been sufficiently met.I am just a simpleton patent attorney and no specialist in ICC law. But probably they want to have it 100% waterproof.
(DIR) Post #ATjmzWidS4JxvPAMHg by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-03-18T10:44:31.493069Z
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@LoukasOh, that's much more consistent then, I've been once again fooled by a clickbait!@t_mkdf @bonkers @isaac32767
(DIR) Post #ATjpiAPLRzf9fSYasC by Loukas@mastodon.nu
2023-03-18T10:51:39Z
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@kravietz @isaac32767 @bonkers @t_mkdf almost all the articles I can find use the same phrasing so I'm guessing it's all based on the same AP article.Whether the AP journalist actually heard Möse say 'no signs' or 'no evidence' i don't know. All I know is those words exist as descriptions by the journalist(s) not as direct quotes from the UN. And the report itself doesn't mention genocide at all, it only says what they have found.