Post ATME0FED6DUOojQJrU by DrDanMarshall@mastodon.cloud
(DIR) More posts by DrDanMarshall@mastodon.cloud
(DIR) Post #ATM7OfkRS2bKL1CUWu by TonyStark@progressivecafe.social
2023-03-06T22:35:08Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
Republicans claim that they’re “concerned about the national debt,” but that’s an obvious lie between the Reagan, Shrub, and Trump tax cuts. And of course, their complaints only happen when a Democrat is in the White House.They’ve relied on doing nothing constructive for decades, knowing that every year that goes by without even simple fixes makes it worse.Republican Votes Helped Washington Pile Up Debt-https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/06/us/politics/federal-debt-republicans-democrats.html
(DIR) Post #ATM7OgVackJahFG91E by DrDanMarshall@mastodon.cloud
2023-03-06T22:44:19Z
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@TonyStark Know what would pay off the national debt real quick? A wealth tax. What do the Republicans not want to talk about? A wealth tax.
(DIR) Post #ATM7ayJuE7jhPfeZbE by Lowie@universeodon.com
2023-03-06T22:38:06Z
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@TonyStark How people believe anything else is frustrating to say it mildly. Spot on.
(DIR) Post #ATM7ayv7zjVhH74IcK by TonyStark@progressivecafe.social
2023-03-06T22:41:28Z
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@Lowie There’s no reason whatsoever to vote for a Republican for most people. They don’t even run the economy well and that’s supposedly the reason people vote for them.
(DIR) Post #ATM7kcjnKBlXN8MgyW by MJ@progressivecafe.social
2023-03-06T22:38:52Z
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@TonyStark “Nearly three-quarters of that new debt was approved in bills that gained the support of a majority of Republicans in at least one chamber of Congress. Three-fifths of it was signed into law by Mr. Trump.”
(DIR) Post #ATM8g0zPpSMX5v2PIW by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-03-07T00:54:34Z
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@DrDanMarshall @TonyStark You can't pay off the national debt with a wealth tax, because (1) taxes don't pay for anything at the national level, and (2) the national debt is nothing like household or business debt, it's just a product of double-entry bookkeeping. It's really private equity: the number of dollars in circulation that haven't been taxed out of circulation. If America paid off its "national debt", its economy would collapse immediately because no-one would have any money.
(DIR) Post #ATM9GcuyI1bN9UPuWe by TonyStark@progressivecafe.social
2023-03-07T01:01:10Z
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@BarrenPlanet @DrDanMarshall I think my friend was being a little hyperbolic which is ok but I had to quit at the national taxes part.National taxes pay for quite a few things.Social Security and Medicare to military equipment, highway maintenance, education, and more. In 2022, the federal government spent the most on Social Security. Have a good day.
(DIR) Post #ATM9vos6kaqy6Cige8 by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-03-07T01:08:37Z
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@TonyStark @DrDanMarshall I came to avoid the toxicity of the hellsite, so I'm not here for an argument. But no, national governments with their own sovereign currencies, are not funded by taxation, they just use account models and conventions that make it seem that way.Full, but brief explanation below. 👇https://gimms.org.uk/
(DIR) Post #ATMADDEjPpTkaXayZc by TonyStark@progressivecafe.social
2023-03-07T01:11:44Z
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@BarrenPlanet @DrDanMarshall This is the US. If you scroll up to the first post in the chain. Our federal taxes most definitely do fund services. No toxicity, just facts which are quite important.Policy Basics: Where Do Our Federal Tax Dollars Go? | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities-https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/where-do-our-federal-tax-dollars-go
(DIR) Post #ATMAgAkLkiKPGPC4Z6 by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-03-07T01:17:00Z
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@TonyStark @DrDanMarshall The US, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and every other country with a fiat currency simply deletes tax money from circulation; it doesn't "go" anywhere.The American economist, Stephanie Kelton explains this at length in her NYT-bestselling book, The Deficit Myth, which is specifically about the United States.Facts are indeed important. And the fact is that our governments consciously lie to us to obscure the reality of how our monetary systems actually operate.
(DIR) Post #ATMAqOvFtxlO7pAjaK by DrDanMarshall@mastodon.cloud
2023-03-07T01:18:50Z
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@BarrenPlanet @TonyStark Don't make me throw my copy of Piketty at you, that tome could kill an ox.By "national debt," I mean Treasury bonds, about 60% of which are owned by Americans, mostly small investors. Taxing the wealth of billionaires to pay off US small investors wouldn't change how much the US as a whole owns, it would just change which individual owns what. For the 40% foreign owned, it'd be like tapping our savings to pay off our credit cards.
(DIR) Post #ATMArP3CuUxmoRMxaS by TonyStark@progressivecafe.social
2023-03-07T01:19:01Z
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@BarrenPlanet @DrDanMarshall #TaxTheRich
(DIR) Post #ATMBCtcMSSXBhC3qJE by DrDanMarshall@mastodon.cloud
2023-03-07T01:22:54Z
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@BarrenPlanet @TonyStark I agree that most of the holdings of the Federal Reserve are Treasury bonds, so while there is truth to the idea that governments destroy money through taxation, that is a gross oversimplification. Since Congress has delegated its authority to create currency to the Federal Reserve, money wouldn't be destroyed when it's returned to the federal gov't via taxes, but when the gov't uses it to pay off what it "owes" to the Fed.
(DIR) Post #ATMBpyATTSvp6MeHjs by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-03-07T01:29:59Z
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@DrDanMarshall @TonyStark I have my own copy, thanks. My economics books alone would fill a small bookcase.
(DIR) Post #ATMCTna2G5Plqcb3rc by DrDanMarshall@mastodon.cloud
2023-03-07T01:37:10Z
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@BarrenPlanet @TonyStark I have a lot of books too. I also have a brain ;)
(DIR) Post #ATMCW2syKA9ZtbWeB6 by DrDanMarshall@mastodon.cloud
2023-03-07T01:37:35Z
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@BarrenPlanet I have a lot of books too. I also have a brain ;)
(DIR) Post #ATMCX4OiBjyYsHrNtg by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-03-07T01:37:47Z
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@DrDanMarshall @TonyStark From Stephanie Kelton masterwork of popular exposition, p. 31.
(DIR) Post #ATMCs0ZZbVuf5qvO2C by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-03-07T01:41:33Z
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@DrDanMarshall If this were Twitter, I'd tell you it's a shame you don't use it.But it isn't, so please stop imagining your intuitions are hard facts, and I'm simply unintelligent for not accepting them.That's not an example of careful reasoning, is it? It's just reactionary sniping. You can presumably do better than that.
(DIR) Post #ATME0FED6DUOojQJrU by DrDanMarshall@mastodon.cloud
2023-03-07T01:54:13Z
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@BarrenPlanet If you were using yours, you might realize I might not be advocating paying off *all* the debt. Money being a useful thing to have.I am aware of about three different versions of MMT. One version was actually in a utopian sf novel Heinlein wrote back during the Great Depression, when he was a "socialist." Require all banks to have full reserves. Have an agency that creates new money, use it to fund infrastructure and blue sky r&d.
(DIR) Post #ATMFFGpBXvHs4ARlvk by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-03-07T02:08:10Z
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@DrDanMarshall Kooky sci-if writer Heinlein has never been mentioned in any MMT text I've ever read. Requiring banks to have full reserves has never been mentioned in any MMT text I've ever read, that's weird goldbug/Austrian shit. It's like you've read Paul Krugman's NYT blog, or something, and now think you've read MMT.P.S. I've also read the complete works of Heinlein, as a teen. All 70+ books. Stranger in a Strange Land was pretty good.P.P.S. I've also read the complete works of Paul Krugman, they're all in the next room from me. The Great Unraveling was pretty good.P.P.S. I've also read actual MMT lit...but your continued snarkiness signals the end of this conversation.
(DIR) Post #ATMJltXjWiVbEV60oa by DrDanMarshall@mastodon.cloud
2023-03-07T02:58:53Z
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@BarrenPlanet If you didn't tell me what your actual proposal was, I was going to mute you. Have a good night.
(DIR) Post #ATMtEPpSZwW5rzirjs by happypete@mastodonapp.uk
2023-03-07T09:36:11Z
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@BarrenPlanet @DrDanMarshall @TonyStark the double entry bookkeeping point is crucial. Most people don’t understand it and what Paul is saying would make more sense to them.