Post AT2x6fOSf6S6FqCQ4W by HeavenlyPossum@kolektiva.social
(DIR) More posts by HeavenlyPossum@kolektiva.social
(DIR) Post #AT2x6epMlaNaUzmOMy by HeavenlyPossum@kolektiva.social
2023-02-25T12:32:07Z
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Our ancestors who lived before wage labor did not starve or die from exposure *because of a lack of wages.* They sustained themselves by their own labor, usually in cooperation with others. They were able to do this because they did not experience the interference of property owners.People do not “work or die” for wages. We do not become unhoused or go hungry because we’re not working. We *are starved* by property owners if we do not labor for them.
(DIR) Post #AT2x6fOSf6S6FqCQ4W by HeavenlyPossum@kolektiva.social
2023-02-25T12:49:43Z
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Propertarians since John Locke have been telling us that this is just—that the propertyless can be reduced to the status of slaves solely by the virtuous workings of “legitimate” property claims established by labor mixing with unowned resources.But human beings have existed as a species for over 200,000 years. We have inhabited virtually every square inch of this planet for at least tens of thousands of years. For most of that time, people did not own resources privately.There is no legitimately-owned private property in the world, *by the propertarians’ own standards.* Every parcel in the world originated in violent theft, almost always by the state: enclosure, colonialism, and murderous expropriation.
(DIR) Post #AT2x6fwUcZfrxO7b7I by johnquiggin@mstdn.social
2023-02-25T18:45:24Z
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@HeavenlyPossum Agree 💯In case you haven't seen it, I had a series of articles in Jacobin about this. You can start with this one and follow links back https://jacobin.com/2019/03/john-locke-freedom-slavery-united-states
(DIR) Post #AT2x6gJXEu6d6qu024 by HeavenlyPossum@kolektiva.social
2023-02-25T13:06:34Z
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But even if there were property legitimately acquired—“homesteading by initial labor mixing with unowned resources”—then a private property regime *still* reduces us to the status of slaves.Where can you plausibly go and sustain yourself by your own labor that isn’t already owned by *someone* who will violently exclude you?
(DIR) Post #AT2xdeY4pAFNBrQTTc by wesdym@mastodon.social
2023-02-25T15:24:44Z
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@HeavenlyPossum I would say this is mostly right, but it's a bit finer than that. Under current legal theory, all 'private' land is technically part of (subsidiary to) a unified land-holding owned jointly by the citizen constituents of sovereign states. (This applies only to 'free' countries, of course.) It's not ideal, but it's probably essential to keep the peace, since plenty of humans would gladly bash in their neighbours' heads for a bit more land to attach to their 'own'.1/1
(DIR) Post #AT2xdf8wc5jn2CfuwS by wesdym@mastodon.social
2023-02-25T15:26:41Z
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@HeavenlyPossum A lot has changed in 10K years, especially the elimination of frontiers to explore and settle. Modern land law is mainly to keep people from killing each other over an essential but finite resource. I agree that there's wide corruption in that, including doctrinal, but we're not going to back to pastoral, free-range, hunter-gatherer days unless a very enormous number of people die in a very short time.
(DIR) Post #AT2xdflEJkMWwwaUcK by RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social
2023-02-25T17:57:27Z
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@wesdym @HeavenlyPossum "the elimination of frontiers to explore and settle" is one hell of a euphemism.
(DIR) Post #AT2xdgTtdg5jBTUAEq by johnquiggin@mstdn.social
2023-02-25T18:51:21Z
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@RD4Anarchy @wesdym @HeavenlyPossum A bit more on frontiers https://crookedtimber.org/2010/08/14/libertopia-with-asterisks/
(DIR) Post #AT2zGmXr7xavErXpcu by RD4Anarchy@kolektiva.social
2023-02-25T19:09:38Z
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@johnquiggin @wesdym @HeavenlyPossum Yes, I mostly agree with your observations there. I would quibble with your use of the word "socialism" but no need to get into that here, I get your point which is essentially that "...propertarianism is fundamentally dependent on coercion, just like... any other form of government."If you haven't read it already you might find this interesting, another perspective on Locke's proclamations and the nature of private property:https://economicsfromthetopdown.com/2020/06/18/can-the-world-get-along-without-natural-resources/
(DIR) Post #AT32RszLoKUwGqOL2m by HeavenlyPossum@kolektiva.social
2023-02-25T19:45:14Z
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@johnquiggin Thank you for sharing; I’ll check them out!