Post AT2Axk31C1uoHbqdge by tallship@gleasonator.com
(DIR) More posts by tallship@gleasonator.com
(DIR) Post #ARD2mggCxkVk2evnaC by cd24@sfba.social
2022-12-31T04:25:43Z
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I decided to take some time to reflect on some of the #QuoteBoost discourse, from the lens of moderation and community development. I expect these are not new thoughts since there's a lively discourse to which I'm largely oblivious.Special thanks to @futurebird, whose posts have been especially illuminating for me.https://write.as/collisiondomain/some-thoughts-on-quote-boosts#QB #QBs #QT #QTs
(DIR) Post #ARD2mhCT1oJbei1Yrg by PongoTwistleton@mas.to
2023-01-01T11:22:38Z
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@cd24 @futurebird I get the desire for them but in my experience the negative side has been much worse than the positive side. Quoting out of context to inflame followers is an easy way to gain notoriety. And replying directly to a post takes more guts than those craven simps usually have. I prefer boosting a post I find noteworthy and adding a reply if I think I have something to say to my followers. Boosting doesn’t mean I agree, it means I think it’s worth discussing
(DIR) Post #ARD2mhe7N0Qv2Sxdxo by cd24@sfba.social
2022-12-31T04:26:28Z
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@futurebird Please note I'm speaking as an individual here. I am not speaking as an agent of SFBA with this article.
(DIR) Post #ARD2mhlYvKO7PYRaZE by cd24@sfba.social
2023-01-01T18:45:54Z
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@PongoTwistleton @futurebird I can understand the intuition that others will abuse the tool, but I do not think the risks are unique to QB and avoiding rich support for links within mastodon really just makes the moderators job harder. The bad actors you’re describing there will still do a “QB” but it will be much harder for mods to enforce policy against them.
(DIR) Post #ARD2miVe9zFdiU0OOm by isaacs@fosstodon.org
2023-01-01T19:31:03Z
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@cd24 @PongoTwistleton @futurebird one thing I find perplexing is the presence of both these responses:1 quote boosts lead to abuse2 a boosted reply is equivalent to a quote boostWhat stops someone from replying with a dunk, and then boosting it and the original post, for their followers to pile on? Because that happens now, and is more costly to moderate."Craven simps too cowardly to reply" doesn't hold water. Trolls *usually* reply, that's how it works.
(DIR) Post #ARD2miryox7EpkSED2 by cd24@sfba.social
2022-12-31T06:38:23Z
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Also, a cool side-note. write.as supports federation! If you'd like to see more of my musings feel free to follow the blog on and AP system using @collisiondomain
(DIR) Post #ARD2mji5hCndRMpqQy by iramjohn@mastodon.social
2023-01-01T19:40:26Z
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@isaacs @cd24 @PongoTwistleton @futurebird The only thing I can think of is context: “Look at this [insult]” works differently when you can see it. Having to click through and scroll back takes more effort, and dims the outrage a little. I think there’s some truth in that, especially since Mastodon is always a little slow, but probably less than people think (assuming that’s what they’re thinking)
(DIR) Post #ARD2mkF3idAf5cGAoy by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-01T19:45:46Z
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@iramjohn "and dims the outrage a little"I'm really frustrated with these attempts to manage users through interface design. The whole premise feels paternalistic-- and built on low expectations. We could also, add a 15-second wait before a reply to a post by similar logic. After all people see something fire off a reply without thinking or reading carefully. Perhaps if a post contains angry or critical words add another "waiting period" there. "Are you certain you want to post this?"
(DIR) Post #ARD2mkiTxEhsYs1fgO by RokosBasilisk@ioc.exchange
2023-01-01T19:51:55Z
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@futurebird @iramjohn I have a better idea!Why don't we implement a text pre-processor.One that would remove all the bad words and positivise negative comments in the user posts!We have the technology!
(DIR) Post #ARD2mlEk1IVkAv7Qxs by isaacs@fosstodon.org
2023-01-01T19:33:53Z
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@cd24 @PongoTwistleton @futurebird but like, if a boosted reply is equivalent to a quote, and quotes lead to abuse, why does mastodon allow boosting one's own replies? The fact is, a boosted reply IS equivalent if all you want is to dunk on the op, but harder to moderate; for any non-abusive use cases, it's less useful (distracts the conv thread, etc)
(DIR) Post #ARD35hICuMqzRdlmMK by iramjohn@mastodon.social
2023-01-01T19:55:21Z
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@RokosBasilisk @futurebird Sounds boring. Bad words are what make a lot of writing worth reading
(DIR) Post #ARD4XdBbrwjoltZFDc by nazgul@infosec.exchange
2023-01-01T20:11:36Z
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@RokosBasilisk @futurebird @iramjohn I have a friend who was banned from FB for a week for posting in quotes: “I could kill you!” under a photo of an angry cat. And then there was the “dyke” disaster.
(DIR) Post #ARD6JdokvONMaGKo5Y by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-01T20:15:33Z
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@nazgul @RokosBasilisk @iramjohn FB is a great example of why moderation "by the letter of the law not the spirit" is a disaster.The overly literal applicant of rules on facebook fails to protect the vulnerable (trolls quickly learn how to avoid the filters and rules) while randomly silencing totally innocent posts. FB didn't want to "take a side" on things like spreading medical misinformation and if nazis are bad-- and that's what you get. A pointless system that does more harm than good
(DIR) Post #ARD6JeNqouRsL6kpn6 by RokosBasilisk@ioc.exchange
2023-01-01T20:31:30Z
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@futurebird @nazgul @iramjohn Thank you for communicatively conveying the point I was making with unhelpful sarcasm.Auto-moderation, on a basic level is worse than useless as it OBSTRUCTS accurate (as intended) flow of information.HOWEVER, I do believe there is room for sophisticated 2nd and 3rd generation admin monitoring tools. Tools that would help identify "bad faith" posters, such as unlabelled bots or state-actor info space attackers.Tools that are largely unwritten and likely not designed yet. Conceptually, if #AI is used as a weapon (back since Cambridge Analitica days, 9 years ago!). Some AI engine combined with lexical analytics and large data sets, for example COULD be used as a shield.Development of such systems is a big ask, more suited to nation states trying to build counter-disinformation tools.#FBI if you're listening...let's have another #Tor initiative!An open source counter-disinformation AI!Modern problems require modern solutions!
(DIR) Post #ARD78I4FYCVDtbjWBE by nazgul@infosec.exchange
2023-01-01T20:40:38Z
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@RokosBasilisk @futurebird @iramjohn The funny thing was that I wasn’t sure if you were being sarcastic or not (until I read your profile). But the fact that I couldn’t tell *precisely* demonstrates a major problem with automated moderation.I absolutely agree with you with regards to tools. There’s a desperate need to look at users in a larger context. The romance scammers I get on Instagram are a classic case. “Hi Sweetie” is a perfectly innocuous thing to post. Doing it to 100 different people is not. Offering to help someone with a locked account is fine too. Doing it to someone whose post you found via search is not. Resharing a post about drag story hours is perfectly fine. But when it’s reshared only by people saying bad things about it, and is highly correlated with real world and online attacks, something is wrong.I also believe that ML has a lot to offer moderators in order to reduce the cost (in both time and stress) of manual moderation. Highlight the text that seems to be a problem. Indicate where in the video there is an issue. Provide some context about whether people replied negatively or positively to this post. There’s a lot that could be done.
(DIR) Post #ARD8fSsEUiA2vAUkDI by RWerpachowski@mastodon.green
2023-01-01T20:57:51Z
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@RokosBasilisk @futurebird @iramjohn there's a lot of sci-fi written about the concept of pacifying people to avoid toxic behaviour, and the unintended consequences of that ;-)
(DIR) Post #ARD9PjSv8fchhTiXZo by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-01T19:50:27Z
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@iramjohn I was thinking about the merits of the opposite extreme. A system without any boosts. The only option is a quote-boost or a reply. In other words *add something* to the discussion, don't just passively re-share or like. In examining why I care about this issue so much, I think one of the more personal reasons is due to finding much more value in replies & being quoted with a reply than in likes or boosts. What we have here is a system that needs boosts to work and blocks quotes.
(DIR) Post #ARD9Pk2N0rynTQIqpc by JMMaok@mastodon.online
2023-01-01T20:57:07Z
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@iramjohn @futurebird You May know this, but Twitter went through a stage where every retweet prompted you to add your own comments to make it a QT. So clearly at some point Twitter had a reason to think QTs were good, for some definition of good.
(DIR) Post #ARD9PkXZ8svv2AtlSK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-01T21:02:56Z
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@JMMaok There has always been angst about people "blindly boosting content" not really reading the post and boosting (retweeting) over there. I think the real issue was that "retweet frequency" was known to trigger "the algorithm" so bot farms just retweeted blindly.The bot activity was attributed to real users "not really reading; just retweeting"We don't have engagement bots here (YET) but without an algorithm to hyper-charge their actions I don't know if they will be cost effective.
(DIR) Post #ARD9Pl1LMAkiWWpXs0 by tero@rukii.net
2023-01-01T21:06:11Z
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@futurebird @JMMaok, bots boosting specific types of content so that people can follow the bots to get content efficiently and be introduced to new people is a natural evolution going forward. These bots then are easy to monetize, and can preferentially boost paid content, until at some point all content they boost is paid content.
(DIR) Post #ARD9y1NR3CT367VBBo by tero@rukii.net
2023-01-01T21:12:22Z
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@futurebird @JMMaok, so far most bot accounts or content pushing accounts here have missed the point of #Mastodon, and they do what they did on #birdsite, that is, steal content and post as their own.If they instead boosted from a wide network, they would get more followers, and it would become easier to monetize. Their standard modus operandi is a bit dysfunctional on Mastodon.
(DIR) Post #ARDAHFpfWvJjQrsYgi by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-01T21:15:48Z
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@tero For such bots to operate as a commercial force, there needs to be commercial content for them to boost. Commercial content is thin at the moment around here. (good)I do think you are right, boost bot are the obvious first choice, then reply bots. QT was always difficult for bots to pull off. Making an automated boost or reply that goes under the radar is much easier. QTs on twitter, ironically enough are the most likely to be the work of real users!
(DIR) Post #ARDAIgcdPam0oDSuEC by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-01T21:15:55Z
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@tero Twitter used likes, RTs and replies as metrics to show posts to people who would not otherwise see them. Here, for bots to work, real people need to follow them. This is a powerful insulator.
(DIR) Post #ARDDyJDn6ZbAG3NqNc by josemanuel@qoto.org
2023-01-01T21:57:18Z
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@futurebird Here is the thing: if everyone who wanted quote-posts moved to an instance who supported them (hint: there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of them), they could have what they want and still be able to interact with Mastodon servers. Furthermore, if they went away from Mastodon en masse to Misskey or Pleroma, and Mastodon was reduced to a minority actor in the Fediverse, it would have to adopt the new standard.So, let’s see whether those master ‘organisers’ decide to move their asses and get what they’re asking for.@iramjohn
(DIR) Post #ARDEFlnK7kvVnaKUz2 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-01T22:00:18Z
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@josemanuel People won't need to move, the changes will come when some servers decide to simply update with forks that support the feature.
(DIR) Post #ARDF02WAHOuWzBMo3U by josemanuel@qoto.org
2023-01-01T22:08:48Z
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@futurebird Incrementalism FTW!Listen, those who want that feature can’t code, and those who can, either don’t want that feature, or already have it implemented, but not on Mastodon or any of its forks. If you’re willing to live with the status quo, that’s alright with me. I do have quote posts on this instance, but, with all due respect, your stance is simply ineffective.
(DIR) Post #ARDFCMbDRWuGk5bczw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-01T22:11:00Z
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@josemanuel You don't need to know how to code to ask your admin to consider updating to the #hometown fork of Mastodon on the next server upgrade. Anyone can do that. Though, given that most of the forks of Mastodon are implementing QT I don't think it's true that "those who want that feature can’t code" Just something you see to be assuming for some reason.
(DIR) Post #ARDGcnAtMIkieESWhM by josemanuel@qoto.org
2023-01-01T22:27:01Z
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@futurebird Yes, anyone can ask. Meanwhile, those who can actually do stuff remain the gatekeepers of what actually gets done.Good luck convincing admins of installing a new tool because some people who couldn’t be bothered to do it themselves want some feature that the whole Fediverse is divided about and has barely been used for years even where it is available. Also good luck convincing Mastodon developers of supporting at least showing those quote-posts as they’re meant to appear instead of just as links. Finally, good luck convincing moderators of working much more for free.I already gave you a solution, but as a really wise man said, YDHTTMWFI.
(DIR) Post #ARDIChmKzxOSI8f8nA by ink8@the9thcircle.club
2023-01-01T22:38:25.618Z
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@josemanuel@qoto.org @futurebird@sauropods.win maybe we shouldn't support hopeful feature implementation on Mastodon or their forks. the original brand is quite posessive of the image and functionality of Mastodon to the point of expecting their users to not discover Misskey or Pleroma, and anything implemented elsewhere they will actively seek to silence by making the post make no sense due to feature disparity. it does not fail gracefully, it saves face.we just have to get used to what the brand wants or expect dissenting users to change to another implementation altogether.(mastodon reads like a brand to me at this point. that is not good for any FOSS code.)
(DIR) Post #ARDICiL4unBO1suswS by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-01-01T22:44:41.585191Z
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>(mastodon reads like a brand to me at this point. that is not good for any FOSS code.)It really is a brand at this point though, the same goes with the cult of personality around Eugen that only exists on the Mastodon side. They treat Eugen like he's their Jack Dorsey, an internet daddy of sorts. It's also a joke outside Mastodon that it's referred to as "The Mastodon Network" by journalists and casual Mastodon users.
(DIR) Post #ARDNc2vQ0rJ0t1oSxc by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-01T23:03:00Z
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@ink8 I've encountered this kind of pessimism before about Mastodon (kept me from supporting their patreon for a long time.) They recently posted a roadmap; that has given me hope they will focus on ... growing not dominating. It's tempting to buy-in to the idea that ugly way QTs from other services look on mastodon servers is a conspiracy-- but I don't want to totally jump to that conclusion. It's better for all of us if this can be ... cooperative.https://joinmastodon.org/roadmap
(DIR) Post #ARDNc3bFVKlYylNsA4 by ink8@the9thcircle.club
2023-01-01T23:20:48.383Z
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@futurebird@sauropods.win QT on Misskey appear as both a reply and an individual post. What would be the negative there? It's purely cosmetic.And Mastodon kinda does have the image that the devs do what they want as they might be on a power trip. There's no reason whatsoever to not have implemented Misskey's QTs yet, or custom emoji reactions. Indeed, they haven't even implemented unicode emoji reactions.They haven't implemented five-option polls. They haven't implemented support for more than four images. They want to baby their userbase like GNOME does their desktop environment's users by removing anything that a human could find confusing; however they try to make it into a perfect work of art instead, because they don't actually care about implementing features or perfecting the user experience.And I don't care much for Mastodon's success either, because of "The Mastodon Network" being a thing at all. And I will not use expletives here but I really would like to, because they're being really hostile to basically anyone who doesn't run mainstream official Mastodon code.It's not pessimism. It's hatred.
(DIR) Post #ARDNc40lyRBOFvKFwe by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-01T23:28:01Z
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@ink8 How have they been hostile? Can you explain a little more?(NOT doubting you at all. I just have not been around here for years and don't know the history. I was shocked to see that features and issues that I was raising as if new have languished in the discussion and known bugs sections of github for years. I am "Concerned" and remain "Concerned" -- )How did it go down? Tell me more.
(DIR) Post #ARDNc4OsWoStSgbVWC by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-01-01T23:45:16.041192Z
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So the thing with Mastodon and it's userbase is that there is a very iffy relationship between Eugen and the users/idea guys (who feel like they have more power). The development process of Mastodon is "what Eugen wants, Eugen gets". There's also two subgroups within the Mastodon userbase; those who want more Twitter style features and those who want privacy as a feature (despite ActivityPub's design flaws in that regard). Eugen's response infamously when people were angry about hashtag trends being added was to tell people complaining to pound sand.https://archive.fo/k26IjThe end result of this mindset however is more pronounced outside of Mastodon's mainline branch. There's forks like Fedibird, Glitch-Soc, and Hometown with Mastodon that add in emoji reacts, quote posts, and the like. These are features that mainline Mastodon has lagged beyond and there's a reason for that: Eugen didn't create them either. Wander further into the sphere of Misskey and Pleroma and you'll notice that they absolutely love to add new features, and the people who use these features tend to get hooked on them. This isn't always the case, as Soapbox-FE only supports limited emoji reacts (I've heard the reason for that is that Alex does not want to add negative reacts to the site him and his wife run to slow userbase deterioration) despite numerous people asking him for it. But lately in the fediverse all the new features get added by the Misskey or Pleroma devs (or one of their fork devs). I'm talking about quote posting, emoji reacts, better moderation tools (you can ban problem users from your instance as opposed to entire domains), and whatnot. There's also numerous forks of them as well, either website specific forks or forks because features wouldn't be added into mainline Pleroma/Misskey.
(DIR) Post #ARDObwgZJLtpUONnf6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-01T23:54:07Z
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@PhenomX6 Thanks for this great history. I think there is an assumption that people who have come from twitter just want to jump in with the "make it like twitter" camp.I don't think it's that simple. This huge new group of users isn't a monolith. I do think there are ways to mitigate various levels of privacy-- other issues need to be more consistent. And some debates just seem... silly.
(DIR) Post #ARDObx51qPSuiFpKmu by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-01-01T23:56:27.805133Z
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There's already something if you want it "like twitter", there's soapbox.pub. It will install alongside Mastodon/Pleroma under a subdomain, but if you use the dev's Pleroma fork you'll get additional features.
(DIR) Post #ARDPUdVqIVBzx6RcES by hamishcampbell@mastodon.social
2023-01-02T00:02:16Z
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@PhenomX6 @josemanuel @futurebird @ink8 The is a thread on this https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/ but site down at mo... The "center of activertypub" needs more competent people to get involved.It's getting messy, the loon and mad energy is the default.
(DIR) Post #ARDPUeFvXA3WG20Q40 by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-01-02T00:06:21.943386Z
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The interesting part about AP development is right now it's very decentralized because W3C has clearly shown they don't care about the spec itself.The other thing is Mastodon has gained a bad rep among AP developers for doing things "it's own way" and being picky about accepting messages, among other things. There's also a feeling that AP for the longest time was whatever Mastodon/Eugen wanted because of the critical mass, and yet all the new features being added outside the Mastodon mainline ecosystem is proving the opposite is true. The good thing is, it's also easier to self-host the alternatives. I've managed to make Pleroma work on a SPARC workstation as a server and I've seen Pleroma work on the worst/cheapest VPSes as well.
(DIR) Post #ARDVQMQqSaxhXoS3Em by theorytoe@ak.kyaruc.moe
2023-01-02T01:12:51.986128Z
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@PhenomX6 Yeahpleroma is dead easy to setup on a small chink machine. There are decent docs too so there isnt much friction getting things up and running.@hamishcampbell @josemanuel @futurebird @ink8
(DIR) Post #ARDYsD1RL3uEKbXTwu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-02T01:36:50Z
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@theorytoe @PhenomX6 @hamishcampbell @josemanuel @ink8 What kind of machine is that?
(DIR) Post #ARDYsDdN42FOEFHm4W by theorytoe@ak.kyaruc.moe
2023-01-02T01:51:30.327209Z
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@futurebird @PhenomX6 @hamishcampbell @josemanuel @ink8 if you run under 4 core / 4gb ramor a generally lower-tier hardware machinepleroma will work pretty much out of the box.
(DIR) Post #ARDZ4QlM4rQiQDqL7A by m0th@husk.site
2023-01-02T01:48:28.002079Z
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@futurebird @ink8 > cooperativeSo what do you contribute again?
(DIR) Post #ARDZgmtOFSp63ltKmu by ink8@the9thcircle.club
2023-01-02T01:51:02.359Z
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@futurebird@sauropods.win @theorytoe@ak.kyaruc.moe @PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com @hamishcampbell@mastodon.social @josemanuel@qoto.org "chink" in the wrong context would be an asian slur, but here it's just a pejorative term for a no-brand machine and not even truly pejorative as the implication is that it's good but incredibly cheap, which has its uses as well. some models of phones and headphones fall under this umbrella for different reasons but the basic idea is that they're cheap and good but without a brand. some brands of headphones, for instance, mainly sell replicas of discontinued high-fidelity studio monitors and sound just as good, they're just not flagship anymore. but they're still cheaper than the equivalent current models.
(DIR) Post #ARDZgnKKdINFPKUqmW by theorytoe@ak.kyaruc.moe
2023-01-02T02:00:38.808872Z
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@ink8 @hamishcampbell @josemanuel @PhenomX6 @futurebird hmm seems like more slurs popping up every day...well ill keep that in mind, didnt know so my bad
(DIR) Post #ARDcKTDp0AvkXpUwWu by ink8@the9thcircle.club
2023-01-02T02:29:51.566Z
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@theorytoe@ak.kyaruc.moe @hamishcampbell@mastodon.social @josemanuel@qoto.org @PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com @futurebird@sauropods.win don't worry, it happens. you only got yourself defederated from the happy side of mastodon. no biggie.seriously though, i couldn't care less about these. for all i know 4chan.org/g/ could be full of asian users. i make sure not to use slur derivatives so as to not cause problems but i'm not gonna hold other people accountable for it either.i mean i am a mod, but i believe in policing behaviour and consequences. and in this case asian people don't actually have anything to do with the word, so as long as people don't get cocky with strangers or use the word to be deliberately offensive I'm fine with it coming up ocassionally.other mods might not agree, of course.and @shadowferret i have to confess i don't know how to look at the local timeline yet. i don't know why i haven't brought it up but might as well start now.
(DIR) Post #ARDfm9QeU8vJ81OFoO by gordoooo_z@nerdculture.de
2023-01-02T01:42:07Z
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@PhenomX6 @futurebird @ink8 Sounds like open source is doing it's thing. I don't know anything about this Eugen, but if he wants to run things as a benevolent dictator for life (hourly more benevolent than Torvalds (love hearing the man's thoughts but his behaviour as BD4L is hard to justify 3 decades), while others can fork it and create the vertical microblogging change they want to see in the world, then great. Many of the forks are interoperable, if I'm not mistaken, so why not?
(DIR) Post #ARDfm9yKSvrUoT99Iu by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-01-02T03:08:49.387024Z
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Pleroma and Misskey are independently written implementations of the same protocol. They're not forks in any way, shape, or form of Mastodon.
(DIR) Post #ARHRGDguTuEIM3iLbc by alexcio@troet.cafe
2023-01-03T17:40:42Z
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@PhenomX6 @futurebird @ink8 why is this post so long?
(DIR) Post #ARHRGELK3eYWNOccb2 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2023-01-03T21:22:12Z
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@alexcio @PhenomX6 @ink8 Not all instances have the same character limit on posts. So some commit this kind of asymmetric dialectical warfare and lay 5 fat paragraphs down right in the middle of your 256 struggle poetry. (i think it’s kinda neat tbh) (also that is one freedom i couldn’t be trusted with)
(DIR) Post #ARHRGFGOdSD3EPKCYa by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-01-03T22:44:58.567520Z
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@futurebird @alexcio @ink8 it's also something some mastodon forks have even. The truth is you can do a lot more with a mastodon fork or non mastodon piece of software
(DIR) Post #AScnegb8dhqSBUknbs by tallship@gleasonator.com
2023-02-13T03:57:00.537527Z
5 likes, 6 repeats
@gordoooo_z @PhenomX6 @futurebird @ink8 Whatever Eugen decides at this point it’s irrelevant. He’s pretty much just his grip over holding the Fediverse brand as secondary to the notion of a fantasy “mastodon network” when he gave that Time Magazine interview two months ago in which the word “Fediverse” appeared not one single time - that caused enormous, untold damages including confusion that remains in the news media and disenfranchisement of large swaths of developers and users alike on not just other platforms, but mastodon instances themselves.There’s really no such thing as toots anymore, Eugen himself refers to “Posts” and “Quote Posts”, and the submit button in mastodon now says “publish”. The reason #Misskey calls them “notes” is because that’s what they are actually called in #ActivityPub - there are also other types, that other platforms use as well, including “article”, although, instances like #qoto have set the character count for notes at 65535 🙂It’s been covered in this thread already that Quote Posts are simply beyond the control of mastodon devs, Eugen’s edicts, or local mastodon users or admins, because most other platforms support it and there isn’t anything #mastopub can do about it. In Misskey, users can disallow it, but that only affects other local users, so it’s s moot point (except for silo instances).There are very few Fediverse platforms that aren’t taking advantage of most things that are possible, for example, #Soapbox now has federated events, and introduced custom emoji reactions like Misskey has, and live chat - Misskey’s traditionally led the way with these federating features with #Calckey going even further.Some platforms however, intentionally incorporate a leaner set of features; #Smithereen is one example, it doesn’t even sccomodate boosts, which harkens back to #Myspace, #VKontakte (aka, “VK” - not sure I spelled that right), and very early #Faceplant days. #Epicyon has anti-silo capabilities baked in.#Mitra has #Substack style subscriptions at it’s core. Anyone can subscribe remotely from any Fediverse server instance where the user can receive DMs - and in congruence with privacy concerns that are typically expected for Fediverse implementations, it’s based on #Monero (XMR).Most platforms also support #Markdown, with Cakckey being perhaps supporting the greatest superset IIRC, including #LaTEX, and #Friendica, being much older than msstodon, has continued to evolve over the past decade and still has support for #BBCode too, and direct links for uploading images for those who prefer to.I didn’t see any mention of Markdown support when I bothered to look at the mastopub roadmap, yet even on that platform, Quote Posts are all throughout the stream and people boost and reply to them as the time - and, as mentioned earlier, anyone can create a post, simply pasting the link from someone else’s post, and then boost that… Voila! Local #Quote_Post.mastodon was successful in its arrogance of leveraging some pretty graphics and welcoming verbiage into a brand that Eugen weaponized against virtually all other Fediverse platforms, and now, with all of the fine forks like #Hometown and several newcomers, we’ll soon be seeing hardforking as a result of that hostility.But not just forks, funding and ambitious development as evidenced by existing and emerging platforms like #Cloudflare’s #Wildebeest, Tumbler, and the very unique, #Django based Takahē Fediverse server that I wrote about here:https://tallship.writeas.com/takahe-a-new-fediverse-paradigmAverage people are already migrating in larger numbers everyday away from the archaic mastodonian resource hog to other, more capable and promising (and friendlier) platforms elsewhere in the Fediverse that have integrated and fully support #masto_migration, and even ones that don’t (yet) haver that feature.Unlike other dinosaurs and the eponymous mammal for which Eugen chose the namesake of his #TootSuite product, we shouldn’t expect extinction for his platform, but the apathy and indifference levels are rising, as is the enmity in many sectors of the community for what others perceive as a betrayal (or sellout), and that kind of self-inflicted damage is often difficult to mitigate, with waves of disenchantment reverberating get into the future… Just look at what happened to #SourceForge - it still technically exists, but never recovered after the community betrayal it committed years ago.And finally, there’s a irony so obvious that’s it’s not even plausible to deny… Eugen subverted the very rudimentary principal that the Fediverse network is ideologically predicated upon - #DeSoc… There’s no question that his goals shifted to that if building a silo for himself, at least to some great degree. Very sad.An interesting thing about condescending others, you find yourself alone and isolated in an otherwise vibrant, busy world.#tallship #Takahe #ActivityPub #privacy #community_values #FOSS⛵.
(DIR) Post #AScsBv8K1CYSdaNV3Y by gordoooo_z@nerdculture.de
2023-02-13T04:18:59Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@tallship @PhenomX6 @futurebird @ink8 Interesting. Thanks for the summary. I'll fill in the gaps from here, and definitely look into all these other projects. I am aware of Wildebeest, and from a technical standpoint, it sounds like a much leaner platform that might actually be able to handle the kind of growth Masodon has experience the last several months, but I'm more inclined to support something that isn't tied to a...
(DIR) Post #AScsBw2gdddpSOkVua by gordoooo_z@nerdculture.de
2023-02-13T04:20:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tallship @PhenomX6 @futurebird @ink8 ... CloudFlare sized megalith (although I know it's open-source, and I'm sure someone will put in the work to untether it eventually).
(DIR) Post #AScsBx6Gho6IjnQt8K by tallship@gleasonator.com
2023-02-13T04:47:49.471297Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gordoooo_z @PhenomX6 @futurebird @ink8 Speaking of the evil Cloudflare, lolz... Eugen just added his other monolithic silo mastodon server to a competing #CDN service following last week's DDoS attack:https://www.chinafy.com/technology/fastly-china#tallship #Fediverse #FOSS #ActivityPub #Privacy #fastly ⛵.
(DIR) Post #AScuuc8zfMeAgQ8Dg0 by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-02-13T05:18:17.979743Z
4 likes, 8 repeats
Good post, there's also a few things I've wanted to add too.Eugen's "Mastodon Network" branding combined with his tendency to silo users towards instances with a specific political viewpoint has somewhat neutered media attempts to promote or run hit pieces on the platform. Blueticks were signing up for instances, getting banned for no reason with no way to move to another instance easily (because getting banned blocks that usually), and going back to Twitter. It's also neutered hit pieces as journalists with no idea of the network will run a hit piece on "The Mastodon Network" instead. Case in point, a hit piece alleging it was full of CP and making the bold accusation that Eugen is trying to hide a CP problem didn't even name other instance software and while it named the fediverse, it only named GNU Social.The other thing is that the branding thing Mastodon went for can be done better. Soapbox/Rebased is a great example of this. Soapbox has a UI designed to be easy for someone who grew up with phones and Twitter to use with no experience, as opposed to Mastodon being a total pain at times. Instead of running PR online, Alex prefers to make something that anyone can use.The major problem with Soapbox/Rebased is that the developer has a hate army following him over his views on the transgender community (which basically call out the community), who will harass instance operators and threaten to block them (if they aren't posting wrongthink) and focus on the developer's political views over any aspect of the code, while whining that their Mastodon instance with 10 people crashed again. If this sounds crazy, a fedi admin who tried to contribute to GoToSocial got yelled at by the dev of it for even talking to Alex. https://shitposter.club/notice/ASaCuox2fO9CZ11JlgOr how about someone getting a pull request to a website's modified code complaining about Alex:https://gitlab.com/awoo.fyi/howler/-/issues/1Or a while back some viral post sharing a nginx command to block all connections to Pleroma servers and whatnot, and making a blocklist of all servers:https://ligma.pro/@r000t/109396033621130514This mindset is also shared among Twitter refugees up to date with the latest drama, because the truth is, people who aren't extremely online and addicted to fedi meta drama don't even know anything about either side and could care less. I saw a left wing anarchist account on .social sharing fe.soapbox.pub the other day, which lets you log into your Mastodon instance and post there with Soapbox as the frontend.At the same time, mainline Mastodon is lagging behind literally every single popular fediverse instance/server software in terms of features, okay maybe not behind GS, GoToSocial, and a few other dead ones. But the situation with it reminds me a lot of what's happened to Pleroma as of late.Pleroma has had two forks that have gone in their own direction and added in features Pleroma wouldn't add. Rebased has added some from Akkoma and Pleroma, and Akkoma is basically "custom reactions the fork" and while the updates for Akkoma are literally "breaking shit for the sake of it" at times, the selling point is custom reactions. Reactions won't even make sense if you don't even use a Mastodon fork however because mainline Mastodon does not support these while Misskey, Pleroma (and it's forks), and whatnot do already. This happened for a different reason of course, both drama with Alex Gleason acting as a product leader (he's mellowed out some after only working on his own fork), and Lain taking a long break from the project to the point of seemingly being MIA online. I'm seeing the same thing with fedibird, hometown, glitch-soc, and more Mastodon forks and while they might not fix Mastodon's resource hogging issue, they have features Eugen won't add. It's even worse because Mastodon isn't stalling development wise, Eugen is just not listening to the reality that the fedi is moving on without him. Nobody has been able to totally subvert the fedi since no single instance has gained critical mass (see e-mail) and the userbase there is absolutely anti-corporate, the media would rather let it rot in silence than try to shut it down because it's very hard to shut it down.
(DIR) Post #AScxHxsDF7fue0Xoum by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-02-13T05:44:57.288267Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
>Most platforms also support #Markdown, with Cakckey being perhaps supporting the greatest superset IIRC, including #LaTEX, and #Friendica, being much older than msstodon, has continued to evolve over the past decade and still has support for #BBCode too, and direct links for uploading images for those who prefer to.Actually Pleroma-FE supports BBCode as well and has several markdown options. Friendica wouldn't be so bad if not for the fact that when a friend of mine ran an instance on it, it was being DDoSed by Mastodon instances seemingly which were flooding it with requests. I haven't used Calckey but it's interesting to note how Calckey unlike Akkoma or some of the other lesser used forks has taken on a life of it's own. I'm not a fan of Misskey or how the original instance running it (stop.voring.me) is a resource hog and I'm sure the dev of it probably doesn't have the best opinion of me for numerous reasons, but the fact that it's eclipsed Misskey in terms of being mentioned by random people speaks volumes to just how strong word of mouth is on the fedi. I'll admit, I also never paid much attention to the misskey side of fedi either and instances that used it just ran it, but I also never heard the vocal complaints about it like I heard over Mastodon mainline or even Pleroma mainline (but it's also used less). I wanted to use Misskey ages ago but the guide Google gave me was junk and outdated so I gave up on it and ignored the fedi for like 2 years 😂, maybe if I did earlier I'd be somewhere else in life IMO. Which speaks to just how much the fedi can survive without Eugen and Mastodon. The truth is, Eugen sees himself as the CEO of the fedi. He is not. No other fedi developer pretends to be the CEO of the fedi for a good reason; they know they're not. They're in it to have fun or because they're invested in using their own instances.
(DIR) Post #AScyuu1pZVlLy3Arjc by graf@poa.st
2023-02-13T06:03:11.997807Z
6 likes, 0 repeats
@PhenomX6 @tallship @gordoooo_z @futurebird @ink8 good thing i dont care about trans people
(DIR) Post #ASd1DHUPHcTBqpQpGq by gordoooo_z@nerdculture.de
2023-02-13T06:03:06Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@PhenomX6 @tallship @futurebird @ink8 Thanks for even more info! I have come across a bit of this myself. Signed up for a Gleasonator account, and then came across Gleason's account, saw the word soyboy in his bio, and nope the fuck out, and ended up coming across said TERF blog post.He seems like an interesting cat from the perspective of dude w/ code editor, but his opinions on human rights are garbage and his last name is the last thing I need tacked to the end of my first name lol.
(DIR) Post #ASd1DI72xxNVmfVgUy by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-02-13T06:28:53.139314Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
That's the fun part about forking it, you can make a fork if you disagree with how the project is run. It's why the AGPL has worked out in the fedi's favor, as enhancements get shared between forks.
(DIR) Post #ASd2IcvN7FkdjT9oR6 by tallship@gleasonator.com
2023-02-13T06:41:06.968705Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@PhenomX6 @gordoooo_z @futurebird @ink8 Yeah, lolz…A few things there. Calckey has great custom emoji reactions (Misskey does too, of course)Alex must have pulled custom emoji reactions today. Dunno why, prolly temporary though. I’m on his home reference Soapbox/Rebased server instance and it’s a dream to use.I dunno what I did, and I was still plugging GotoSocial for a while, but it’s kinda dead now, yet I got banned from the Matrix room and dunno why. I like getting the word out about good software regardless of whether the devs are hateful bigots like the GtS crowd - good Software is good software, but haters usually find nothing but failure in the end so i don’t plug it anymore.I’m not mentioning Pleroma itself much anymore - not much has actually changed since this post, and it’s sad: https://blog.alexgleason.me/pleroma-is-dead/ but that’s how things go. I don’t really follow Akkoma much either now, and unsubscribed from the git issue notificstions too. I’ve had a few nimrods try that “hate army” bullshit on me, when advocating for Soapbox. They usually shut the fuck up though when I ask them why they enable JavaScript in their browsers or moreover, code with it, considering what an evil Satan person Brendan Eich is supposed to be (while they’re reading my query when they’re using Brave Browser lolz). They’re ignorance and hypocrisy knows little bounds. And then they are happy to paint themselves into a corner of an even smaller Fediverse by blocking me. Kewl - I prefer living life without hateful miscreants in my feeds anyway.It’s an interesting perspective, your observation on the media taboo with respect to mastodon - it’s good that the JoinMastoPub cabal’s branding has minimized spillover of hit pieces into Fediverse proper. I hadn’t viewed it from that angle before 😎That graphic you posted, the author depended upon others taking their word for it - otherwise, they would have provided a link to the referenced blog post. But they didn’t, because what they said was a mischaracterization of what Alex blogged about.I haven’t experienced any so-called Fediblock issues from this server, and only know of two that I interface with that actually block this one - Eugen’s main server is one, and that cesspit means nothing to me. If infantile miscreants want to paint themselves into a corner and remove themselves from society, that is their prerogative - I wrote an article about how silly they actually are in their folly here:https://tallship.writeas.com/08-dec-12-dec-2022Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It’s quite validating what you said and I’m still at a loss to understand the capacity for hatred these morons are able to harness - it must hurt to have a heart so black and evil… But then again, I’ve always been a live and let die sort of person, not really giving a good shit one way or the other if someone wants to create such a miserable existence for themselves. It’s their life after all, and some folks just ain’t happy unless they’re miserable, 😂🤣 I”mma follow you now, coz it’s good to know folks that keep up with the actual development side of things as much (and prolly better even) than I do 😎
(DIR) Post #ASd3TGN3PSUwvJk0G0 by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-02-13T06:54:11.554170Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
Akkoma development is alive and well despite having different drama to that of Rebased. The last big drama was when MRFs got broken to break block bots, which feels as if it was done to mess with a notorious instance using a block notification bot that happens to run Akkoma (which is hilarious). If anything the meme is that all the development work happens on Akkoma and Pleroma just pulls in the "best parts" now. >It’s an interesting perspective, your observation on the media taboo with respect to mastodon - it’s good that the JoinMastoPub cabal’s branding has minimized spillover of hit pieces into Fediverse proper. I hadn’t viewed it from that angle before 😎Oh it has. Beforehand there were incidents like the Decentralized Web of Hate hit piece from a Mozilla fellow. But the thing with the Mastodon push is this, numerous people did not know about Mastodon before the Twitter buyout. They now see it as another failed social media site due to Eugen completely fumbling presentation. There was a post I saw a while back that advocated not telling journalists, Twitter refugees, and tourists how the fedi works in order to keep them in the dark about this so that they couldn't subvert the fedi with "NEO NAZI WEBSITE" hit pieces (as seen with basically anything that ever gets big that isn't caving to Apple's ToS policies) and would redirect them to Eugen. For example, the hit piece saying Mastodon had a pedo problem actually told people to contact Eugen himself about instances he did not run. So when they write an article about journalists getting harassed, they think it's Mastodon doing it and not instances running some other thing, because to them it's all Mastodon all the way down. It's literally Eugen's own marketing backfiring hard on him.
(DIR) Post #ASykhzwV9Ep6fFkhf6 by for@helvede.net
2023-02-23T16:58:04Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@PhenomX6 @tallship @gordoooo_z @futurebird @ink8 the github issues where Eugen rejects to ever merge in markdown, "just because", was my first idea that not all is roses in mastodon world.. I wish hosting services offered other options
(DIR) Post #AT2AVNf8pKF8kT9kOm by gordoooo_z@nerdculture.de
2023-02-23T20:42:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@for @PhenomX6 @tallship @futurebird @ink8 what gets me is how silly it is. It's not controversial. Not particularly difficult to implement. I just can't imagine a single good reason not to.
(DIR) Post #AT2AVOIqRi0CjbjSHg by for@helvede.net
2023-02-24T09:04:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gordoooo_z @PhenomX6 @tallship @futurebird @ink8 "it doesn't look good" or something. Just make it optional to have it rendered in your client..
(DIR) Post #AT2AVOyfwBSkpLIrU8 by gordoooo_z@nerdculture.de
2023-02-24T09:06:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@for @PhenomX6 @tallship @futurebird @ink8 There's no way he said those words in that order. That's just insane.
(DIR) Post #AT2AVPcNYZDooTsZN2 by for@helvede.net
2023-02-24T09:10:36Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@gordoooo_z @PhenomX6 @tallship @futurebird @ink8 well, I'm paraphrasing from the discussions I read a while ago, but that the gist of it. I'll see if I can find them again..
(DIR) Post #AT2AVQ4jr7uIER9DZg by gordoooo_z@nerdculture.de
2023-02-24T09:15:14Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@for @PhenomX6 @tallship @futurebird @ink8 I found this, which is... odd? Did he change his mind? I don't know what the context was though, lol.
(DIR) Post #AT2AxjZEyk60nFurGy by spiriterox@social.furryrefuge.com
2023-02-23T18:08:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@for @PhenomX6 @tallship @gordoooo_z @futurebird @ink8 are roses flowers?
(DIR) Post #AT2Axk31C1uoHbqdge by tallship@gleasonator.com
2023-02-25T09:45:57.511920Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@spiriterox @for @PhenomX6 @gordoooo_z @futurebird @ink8 Is this a trick question❓Coz I had to set my daughter's first grade teacher straight for marking her down when she said her favorite fruit was a tomato 🍅An apology in front of the class did happen, vindicating my daughter.#tallship #common_misconceptions⛵.
(DIR) Post #AT2B6B84O9iIajEYfg by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-02-25T09:47:29.235949Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Tomatoes are vegetables. Nix v. Hedden, 149 U.S. 304 (1893).
(DIR) Post #AT2QDeuzWxW2Ju8pv6 by leftout@gleasonator.com
2023-02-25T12:24:46.720324Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@tallship @spiriterox @for @PhenomX6 @gordoooo_z @futurebird @ink8 Ignorance is thinking a tomato is a vegetable.Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit.Wisdom is understanding a tomato is a vegetable.
(DIR) Post #AT2Qh0TyQzJfb9UxUG by for@helvede.net
2023-02-24T11:22:25Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@gordoooo_z @PhenomX6 @tallship @futurebird @ink8 Not sure.. Here's an old stand... https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/102126052611161708Searching for the old github issues is .. not easy
(DIR) Post #AT2R5j6aBCUGwXLQMS by tallship@gleasonator.com
2023-02-25T12:46:41.100392Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@for @PhenomX6 @gordoooo_z @futurebird @ink8 Guess what?https://Btrf.lyThey do! 🤘😎🤘#tallship⛵.
(DIR) Post #AT2RDUpZ8TGszL5dku by dave@gleasonator.com
2023-02-25T12:48:03.764222Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@leftout @tallship @spiriterox @for @PhenomX6 @gordoooo_z @futurebird @ink8
(DIR) Post #AT2ROzwdnJaCfksrGy by leftout@gleasonator.com
2023-02-25T12:47:18.794375Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@tallship @spiriterox @for @PhenomX6 @gordoooo_z @futurebird @ink8 Oh. And why doesn’t anyone ever say this about cucumbers? Too Phallic. Amirite?
(DIR) Post #AT2RP4cGQVFpA0O9ho by dave@gleasonator.com
2023-02-25T12:50:10.235004Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@leftout @tallship @spiriterox @for @PhenomX6 @gordoooo_z @futurebird @ink8 You’re squashing people’s expectations here, left
(DIR) Post #AT38rFm4pVkpu8f7KK by for@helvede.net
2023-02-25T20:55:39Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Humpleupagus @PhenomX6 @tallship @gordoooo_z @futurebird @ink8 "Pi is 3" - "Some USAian state, not longe enough ago"
(DIR) Post #AT38uNRuketiZmikpk by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-02-25T20:57:39.636772Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
It is if you're counting in base pi. 🤷♂️
(DIR) Post #AT6FaDLjsGTQcA2q5g by gordoooo_z@nerdculture.de
2023-02-26T02:17:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tallship @PhenomX6 @for @futurebird @ink8 I'm more perplexed that a child in the first grade would say a tomato was their favourite fruit. I mean, I don't entirely disagree—I am Italian afterall—but has she ever tried a mango? Those things are really something 🤤
(DIR) Post #AT6FaDsLv0YsFJIsvQ by tallship@gleasonator.com
2023-02-27T08:56:34.229099Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gordoooo_z @PhenomX6 @for @futurebird @ink8 We didn't grow mangos in our small garden in San Clemente, but we did grow tomatoes 🤘🤡🤘
(DIR) Post #AT6jgF77E27uRqzmeO by spiriterox@social.furryrefuge.com
2023-02-27T13:34:13Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@dave hi
(DIR) Post #AT82wwmSjWDenbyRRw by gordoooo_z@nerdculture.de
2023-02-27T17:14:34Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tallship @PhenomX6 @for @futurebird @ink8 Good answer, lol.
(DIR) Post #AUgGT1UH2nj3vv7nW4 by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2023-04-15T15:48:10.463267Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I find it very weird watching people complaining that the fediverse doesn't have certain features, features that it clearly does have on thousands of instances.
(DIR) Post #AUgHfgVkRcNMayPpyq by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2023-04-15T16:01:39.636068Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
FBXL Social started on Friendica, and it has a lot of things about it to really like. Unlike mastodon descendants, it shows threads by default. In addition, it supports federating with GnuSocial, but more importantly it natively supports RSS so you can get all kinds of great content from mainstream sources on your feed without them having to join the fediverse.Unfortunately, federating with php just wasn't performing for me, so my posts would take forever to federate. I'll own the fact that it's probably because my server was underpowered and had too little memory and a slow spinning hard drive, but when I moved to pleroma because it was lighter, I was seeing posts federate instantly and that was enough to keep me on it. Later I moved to Soapbox-fe and rebased.Lots of great options, and lots of options for completely different things, such as peertube for video and lotide (or lemmy) for reddit style discussion boards.The way everything connects together seems like the future to me. The way there isn't actually a CEO of the fediverse seems like the only way forward from my perspective -- many of us saw Google go from "don't be evil" to something some of us see as objectively evil, and many people loved twitter until Elon Musk bought it. As long as one person can control everything, that person can change even if you agree with them and like them today.
(DIR) Post #AVCvk899VouAj8xZvU by gordoooo_z@nerdculture.de
2023-02-13T06:06:47Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@PhenomX6 @tallship @futurebird @ink8@the9thcircle.club Finding out there was no Markdown support was surprising to me. I used to do the ol' unicode italics/bolds trick on birdapp, but it's not great for accessibility, so I just kind of assumed an open source project like Mastodon would support something, if not Markdown. Genuinely surprised there's no formatting support of any kind.